I'd be more interested in games trying to tackle writing female characters without making their core identify be about their gender and sexuality, and in most cases, when writers include rape they do just the opposite. Because you seem to think that I'm somehow convinced I'm the appointed judge for these types of things, I'll just say that I personally have no interest in such stories and when I do run into it I'll criticize it if it's done poorly, but I wouldn't stop anyone from trying.
Hotline Miami 2's implied rape scene probes limits of player morality; authors react
- Thread starter Dawg
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TheBaronOfNA
Banned
You should note that there is a point were it fails because being doing in a shoddy way, or because the player/expectator/reader/etc didn't actually get the point in the first place (as the dissonance was present in the first game, and was disscused since launch).
But I agree that video games shouldn't need to be fun de facto. But that doesn't mean that particular was intended that way in the middle of the fun killing spree.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I understand what you are saying about it being freedom of speech, not actual censorship.
But is the criticism saying "this shouldn't exist in society", or just "I didn't like it"?
And are they actually seeking a change in the game? If their pressure made the developer change it, would they consider that a win?
These are rhetorical questions. I suppose it depends on the critic.
So put in a disclaimer "Game contains depiction of sexual violence" problem solved?
Cymbal Head
Banned
In the case of Cara's piece, I think it was definitely this. It was her expressing her reaction and reflecting on what that reaction means.
And I would add that it's not censorship to tell a developer that the content in their game makes you uncomfortable and you might not be able to play it for that reason. It's not censorship to say "listen, you really need to think long and hard about what you're doing here." Censorship is imposed; criticism is offered.
Reading the PCGamer article, I was glad to see Cara mention the odd nature of her discomfort. Everyone's been quick to point out the hypocrisy of being okay with violence, murder, and other atrocities but drawing their line in the sand elsewhere; in this case, that line being drawn at rape. Granted it's a personal thing for Cara - as it is for every person on where their line is - and I feel this article was just to vent that she found her reaction anomalous and somewhat inconsistent with what she believed were her beliefs.
I also think she might have inadvertantly suggested a solution.
I'm being sincere here when I ask, why not just create that option? Switch the sex of the pretend rape victim or allow the player to choose who they rape in the game. The scene's purpose would still be fulfilled and it wouldn't single out women as the only victims of rape and therefore, hopefully, not alienate them as an audience.
I also think she might have inadvertantly suggested a solution.
I'm being sincere here when I ask, why not just create that option? Switch the sex of the pretend rape victim or allow the player to choose who they rape in the game. The scene's purpose would still be fulfilled and it wouldn't single out women as the only victims of rape and therefore, hopefully, not alienate them as an audience.
Nameless One
Banned
Of course...Feeling offended is what people are best at, who cares about real problems..?
Humanity thy name is hypocrisy
freenudemacusers
Member
who cares about reading articles
seriously, do we need one of these posts every page?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
To be fair, the title is misleading and the article that was reporting about Cara piece had the "I'am offended quotes"
Without the full context of the game, it feels rather tricky to criticize the scene. I feel, given how some elements of the first one were fumbled, this could very well be a rather poorly executed attempt to drive home their theme.
But I'm curious why there was no mention of the damsel in the first game or the forced killing of the manager at the phone company as the biker. The developers have already played with removing player agency in order to force their view on design so it wouldn't surprise me if this was another example of it. I don't take umbrage with portrayal of rape in general. Used correctly, it can be a powerful element in the use of story telling. I wouldn't want to see it's ubiquitous presence like we do with violence but we do seem to be in a strange place when Cara can gleefully go about killing mobs of individuals in violent fashion but the brief moment of implied rape pulls her from the experience.
In other words, I can't tell if that's exactly the point of the design. Perhaps the jarring change between gleeful murder to distasteful rape is to highlight the player's internal implicit bias that brutal murder and carnage is fine, even entertaining, even though it is just as much a violent crime as rape. Or it could just be another mindless scene like in the first.
Hotline Miami was pretty much designed solely with the male player in mind. I'm not surprised that their sequel would be the same.
But I'm curious why there was no mention of the damsel in the first game or the forced killing of the manager at the phone company as the biker. The developers have already played with removing player agency in order to force their view on design so it wouldn't surprise me if this was another example of it. I don't take umbrage with portrayal of rape in general. Used correctly, it can be a powerful element in the use of story telling. I wouldn't want to see it's ubiquitous presence like we do with violence but we do seem to be in a strange place when Cara can gleefully go about killing mobs of individuals in violent fashion but the brief moment of implied rape pulls her from the experience.
In other words, I can't tell if that's exactly the point of the design. Perhaps the jarring change between gleeful murder to distasteful rape is to highlight the player's internal implicit bias that brutal murder and carnage is fine, even entertaining, even though it is just as much a violent crime as rape. Or it could just be another mindless scene like in the first.
Hotline Miami was pretty much designed solely with the male player in mind. I'm not surprised that their sequel would be the same.
Nameless One
Banned
We do need to point out how hypocritical it is to feel offended about the lesser evil (rape) while overlooking (and liking) the bigger evil (murder) in a game.
It is on every page because apparently more than one person has this opinion. I see the same opinions about defending the article on every page, no one complains about them and there is no reason to.
I did not post this to judge the article, only the OP.
Cymbal Head
Banned
You're right, of course, but in my hypothetical World of Serious Games(tm), all creators are technically proficient in both game design and message crafting. So it's really a moot point
I wasn't necessarily saying that games must be fun. I think that there's a lot that games can accomplish beyond that. Games should certainly be enjoyable or worth one's time, but I think tethering it to fun could be stifling creatively. For example, I loved Dear Esther, but I don't know if I would say I had fun with it.
"Problem solved" is going too far, but yeah, this would be a great step. Hell, if they had put that disclaimer at the front of the Rezzed demo, Cara might not have written the article that touched this all off.
I already felt like a piece of shit playing the first game. Especially the
. The game is FUN, but it's also HORRIBLE.
I think the creator of this game knows exactly the kind of reactions that will come from that rape scene, even if it's double fake or whatever you want to call it -- and the author even touches upon it within her article.
I think it's made to make us feel like the hypocritical pieces of shits we are.
telephone building scene where I just walked through a murdered a bunch of innocent, defenseless people
I think the creator of this game knows exactly the kind of reactions that will come from that rape scene, even if it's double fake or whatever you want to call it -- and the author even touches upon it within her article.
I think it's made to make us feel like the hypocritical pieces of shits we are.
Why? I'm not sure I understand where this idea comes from.
freenudemacusers
Member
there is no outrage, and if you read the article, the author herself acknowledges this hypocrisy. So there is no overlooking anything.
and it's on every page because apparently people can't or don't want to read.
Nameless One
Banned
I agree somewhat.
On another note (directed towards other posters not you), what i also do not get fully is the following question some people make ;
"Did they have a reason other than shocking the audience and creating attraction for more popularity and therefore more sales?"
As if the rest of the game(s) isn't designed around this very idea.
I did not post this to judge the article , only the OP and the fact that we are again arguing about meaningless game violence...Do we really need threads like this all the time?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
You're right, of course, but in my hypothetical World of Serious Games(tm), all creators are technically proficient in both game design and message crafting. So it's really a moot point
Dude, that doesn't even happen in Literature. Some people will miss the point, for better or worse, even if is crafted and as explicit as well as it can.
Oh, sorry about that, I actually wanted to say doesn't need to be fun. The Iphone Autocorrection is so fun...
Cymbal Head
Banned
It's a shallow point that tends to be employed as a default defensive position, and it has been brought up and answered several times in this thread.
If you give the original article an honest reading, there's no suggestion that the author is offended. The strongest word I can find in it is "resentment," and she deals introspectively with that feeling, even saying that she doesn't want it.
If every second post was someone linking to the original article then maybe this thread would get somewhere. This thread never really had a chance, just look at the title and then at the first article linked, like many threads before it, it was doomed to repeat cycle after cycle of "but...but... what about violence" followed quickly by "Read the original article" .
The PC Gamer piece was fantastic, Cara Elision had a emotional reaction to the game and shared her experience. Can we get more of that and less of "it has 9 pixel mappings, 12 sounds and really tight controls" please, that'd be fantastic.
GameGuru59
Banned
See, I have several problems with this thinking. 1) How should the scene have been designed? Should it not be in the game at all? That brings up whether game designers are going to remove things in their games to court female players. 2) Plenty of women don't seem to mind watching Game of Thrones, which has plenty of near rape scenes (and one actual rape scene in the 1st season) in addition to alot of soft core porn. Why is rape suddenly so vile in a video-game? Was Game of Thrones not a book/show designed for women? 3) If a predominately female dev. group made a game where a female protagonist cuts a man's dick off, would we say that game "was not designed for men?" (not necessarily a bad thing by the way).
My problem is that people keep acting as if Devolver should take their critiques of their work into account. Why would you want that? Would you advise Nintendo to design every Mario game around the critiques given by critics? One could argue they've done just this with all the hand holding they've put in recently. Just because a game is entertainment doesn't mean you're supposed to enjoy every minute of it. I don't particularly enjoy the Saw movies; but I also don't jump up and down screaming that they're too violent. I understand what they are, and accept that they are not for me.
I understand where Cara Ellison is coming from. I remember when RE5's first trailer was shown, and it basically consisted on the (white) hero killing hordes of Africans (Capcom later changed many of the character's skin tones). I was put off by that trailer, and may not have bought the game if it had that in it. But at the same time I understood why there were black people in the game- it was in Africa. It didn't feel right to tell Capcom to change the skin tone because the game was set in a place where there are black people. Capcom changed the game because it was designed to sell. It wasn't a piece of art. I think I might have respected Capcom more if they had just kept the people's skin darker, because to do so would be to say: "this is our piece of art, and who are you to design our art?". I still wouldn't have bought the game (just like I wouldn't buy a recording of "Birth of a Nation"), but I would have respected it as art, just as I respect Birth of a Nation as a piece of art.
For HM2, it appears that this rape scene is relevant to set the tone of the narrative. Its not gratuitous (and wouldn't be if they just did it for kicks considering the actions in the game). Unlike RE5, Hotline is more "artsy" than your typical AAA blockbuster. To me, people who try to pick and choose what's "acceptable" to put in a game according to what society is or isn't thinking are disrespecting the medium as an art form. Even if there were a game where the purpose was to rape, it wouldn't strike me as "unacceptable" because in art, anything is acceptable to me. Anything should go in art. It must be unbound from societal norms because art itself reflects and sets societal norms. The moment you try to corral art into acceptable, and unacceptable, you lose the ability to learn something. Hotline is just one such piece of art.
EDIT:
To put it simply: If you were painting a tree, and another person came along and said "hey, that branch isn't correct!", would you listen to them? That to me is the fundemental question.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
It was honest, pretty grounded and offered a thing to reflect upon... but I would not say it was particulary fantastic (as Sarkessian doing Academic workand missing some themes of the first game... well points of "Uh-Oh" )
Nameless One
Banned
Understood , thanks for pointing it out instead of complaining
again i was referring mostly to the OP and it's creation of another thread about meaningless violence and offended people.
To me it seems to be a pretty clear case of meta commentary on the way the media handles sexual violence and women in general (specifically games)
I mean it is immediately followed up by the skeezy director telling the female actress who just filmed the rape scene to work on her femininity and to act more girly by being 'helpless and scared' (and he tells the man to act more violent)
But we'll see in the final game how much context this gets. If it is just a one-off shock of "look, we're repulsing you! isn't it shitty when media repulses you like we're doing right now?!" then that's kind of.... well, shitty.
I mean it is immediately followed up by the skeezy director telling the female actress who just filmed the rape scene to work on her femininity and to act more girly by being 'helpless and scared' (and he tells the man to act more violent)
But we'll see in the final game how much context this gets. If it is just a one-off shock of "look, we're repulsing you! isn't it shitty when media repulses you like we're doing right now?!" then that's kind of.... well, shitty.
DexterPepper
Member
Only nitpicking because I too was thinking Devolver was the dev up until a few hours ago.
I don't agree with everything you said (particularly that the scene is needed to set the game's tone--at least for HL1, I thought the tone was perfectly established by the "this is how you kill" tutorial) but great post nonetheless.
Cymbal Head
Banned
I think there's a "best game criticism" thread around here somewhere.
If they had good reasons for thinking that branch wasn't correct, I would listen to them, consider them carefully, and decide whether they had merit. Then I would either take them into account or dismiss them as I continued my painting. I wouldn't begrudge their opinions if they were shared honestly and with genuine concern for my painting.
To be more specific, if they said "do you realize you risk alienating part of your audience with that branch because of x and y?" and it wasn't something I had considered, I might change my painting if I thought the branch wasn't so integral to the form of the the tree that the whole painting would suffer for changing it.
Oh, I think I misread your initial post. Sorry. But now you've been banned for some reason.
I liked the Errant Signal video, but I think it's ironic that Campster basically ignores the HLM-as-commentary-on-videogame-violence strand of criticism that's all over this thread in order to argue that what HLM is saying is that narratives in games are unnecessary. If HLM2 has as much narrative focus as it seems from previews, I think he's been effectively rebutted by the developers.
The violence in Hotline Miami one was there with very good reason both for artistic and entertainment reasons, I doubt Hotline Miami 2 would be any different.
As many other people have said torture killings with people crawling away with broken legs with you then gouging their eyes out is fine but rape isn't.
Also Errant Signal - Hotline Maimi is a thought provoking video about the first game for those interested.
As many other people have said torture killings with people crawling away with broken legs with you then gouging their eyes out is fine but rape isn't.
Also Errant Signal - Hotline Maimi is a thought provoking video about the first game for those interested.
Watched the video...
Read the review...
Read some posts...
I never personally played HM1 because my backlog is too bloated,. However, I DO know that those who play it realize it's an ultra-violent murder sim in the vein of 80's arcade splendor (Like APB or Smash TV taken up thousands of notches) the moment they boot it up. The game is pretty self explanatory in it's brutality, so I don't see what's so shocking about it. If this were GTA5 I can see where it would be out of place.
Although I also guess I can see why a percentage of female gamers would be upset. And I would assume that this upset demographic simply wouldn't buy the game and let their money do the talking. But trying to make the indie developers aware of their distaste, who obviously market this as a mature game, asking them to compromise their vision which is aimed at a niche market in the first place? I don't see it doing any good.
Read the review...
Read some posts...
I never personally played HM1 because my backlog is too bloated,. However, I DO know that those who play it realize it's an ultra-violent murder sim in the vein of 80's arcade splendor (Like APB or Smash TV taken up thousands of notches) the moment they boot it up. The game is pretty self explanatory in it's brutality, so I don't see what's so shocking about it. If this were GTA5 I can see where it would be out of place.
Although I also guess I can see why a percentage of female gamers would be upset. And I would assume that this upset demographic simply wouldn't buy the game and let their money do the talking. But trying to make the indie developers aware of their distaste, who obviously market this as a mature game, asking them to compromise their vision which is aimed at a niche market in the first place? I don't see it doing any good.
so the author feels that she was manipulated because she thought that the rape was "real" rather than just the film-within-a-game that it really was.
what's the solution to this? what can the developer do to prevent this kind of reaction to that scene? preface the knowledge that it's a film-within-a-game? well that sort of ruins the sense of danger the player has when killing all the enemies leading up to the "rape" - so what can they do aside from removing the scene entirely?
what's the solution to this? what can the developer do to prevent this kind of reaction to that scene? preface the knowledge that it's a film-within-a-game? well that sort of ruins the sense of danger the player has when killing all the enemies leading up to the "rape" - so what can they do aside from removing the scene entirely?
I think the comparison is flawed because a malformed tree branch isn't going to utterly repulse and upset someone, whereas a rape scene can.
If someone said to me "I don't like your painting because that tree branch looks squiffy" it would provoke a very different response in me than: "I don't like your game because it triggered memories of when I was raped". That's a very blunt way for me to put it but, ultimately, that's the kind of reaction we're potentially talking about.
And the developers need to carefully consider that.
Cymbal Head
Banned
I don't think it's a good comparison either, but I'm willing to play along.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
But that is kind a difficult thing put blame to the author (and the victim, obviously ).
I wouldn't say blame is the right word. I'd say responsibility. I don't think game developers, or any artists, can create something, put it out into the world and then wipe their hands of any negative response it might create.
So, personally, I would like the game to come with a clear warning that it contains extreme sexual violence to avoid that risk.
Edit: I mean, if people are attaching trigger warnings to blog posts then I think it's fair for games to do the same.
Edit 2: And when I say warning, I mean something that can't be missed - not a tiny piece of text on the back of the box.
I would listen to them, yes, but that doesn't mean I would change anything.
The article in question does not ask for HLM2 to be changed. It's simply an account of how the game made her feel. Like someone might describe how a painting made them feel.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
But Author responsability has (and should have) certain limits.
Yes, but they cannot take every single criticism as a valid one or something they need to feel responsible.
Probably is going to be a warning.
Though the purpose of the scene in question is meant to utterly repulse and upset someone, as far as I can tell.
Is it then wrong to repulse and upset, even if said feelings and reactions are key to setting the tone for the narrative of the game?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Is not going to be sold in a box.
RoninChaos
Member
Who asked the developer to change it?
I'm talking about a rape victim reliving the trauma of their abuse. So, in that case, yes - I think it would be wrong to provoke that without warning.
I don't think he's been rebutted, I think instead that the people behind Hotline Miami are eager to piss off and confuse fans and theoryists. Who can say what is and isn't a red herring at this point?
Right. When the hell did I say rape wasn't an act of violence?
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
You sort of implied it when you reductively referred to a woman being mortally wounded and subsequently raped by the player character as "sexual content" in your drive by comment.
I figured you were just trying to propose equivalence between the two instead of straight up suggesting that rape wasn't violence, but I can understand the confusion. It was a very poorly conceived comment on your part in more than one way.
GameGuru59
Banned
Well I probably wouldn't. When I took art class, there was nothing more annoying than having the teacher come by and say "well, that's not correct". I appreciate making mistakes, learning from them, and correcting them. When I take other people's visions of what is and isn't correct, it begins to become more theirs and less mine. It then becomes design, I'm designing it for others at that point. I see my art as a projection of my ideas into the world. Having it colored by the ideas of another mars that projection. If I need help working with a particular material or in a certain medium, I'll ask for it (and often do). But I don't appreciate it when people criticize my work before its complete; mainly because I'm the one doing the work. It's my piece, no one else's. This applies universally, whether the subject is rape or a tree branch.
I think one of the issues our industry currently faces is that rather than accepting gender equality the actions and contraversys stand only to highlight a problem that can never completely go away, there will always be racism, violence, rape, murder, theft, etc.
It doesnt mean we should make light of it, indeed each and every act of the above actions is a dispicable thing but the solution isnt what the media currently tries to do.
With TV, Film, Theatre and Music critics we have already reached a point where the gender of said critic rarely gets highlight in response to the critique, largely because its more or less universally accepted that these sorts of media can be and are enjoyed by women just as much as they are by men.
The difference here is that gaming is generally percieved to be a 'man thing' where being female and playing games is rarity as such those in the position to critic these games on soapboxes we call gaming media sites both receive criticism for their words more blatently, and play into their gender to highlight an issue theyre pointing out.
My problem isnt with feminism, its an important movement that brings up important issues the world would be a better place without.
My problem is that rather than tackling an issue we are seeing, fairly often, the issue being brought up in a forced manner to create contraversy where one shouldnt have been, the tomb raider moment being a key example.
The issue here is that by and large its not something we are allowed to discuss subjectively once the topic has been posted, you either agree with the author or youre sexist to some degree, as highlighted by a kotaku editor telling some of the commenting regulars discussing a particular topic to 'leave' nicely demonstrates.
What i dont like is that feminist topics are being used by both men and women in the media essentially to drive hits because they know its a sure fire contraversy subject, and where theres a contraversy, theres a heated debate, and where theres a heated debate theres an increase in ad revenue.
Last but not least I dont like how men are generalized by the term 'male power trip' it is in itself a very sexist term, infact many terms coined by the media to describe the intent or drive behind sexual violence are inherantly sexist, of an editor were to refer to a womans actions in a game as a 'womens whining trip' there would be a massive backlash.
Then theres the automatic assumption thay because a certain person is male and not female that they automatically do not understand how a woman feels about the topic, without ever actually asking a person specifically - as a gender its different, yes, but does that mean we are incapable of understanding how another gender feels? no.
Using sexism to combat sexism just feels sonewhat stupid and undermines the purpose of seeking equality.
Feminist issues need to be resolved but we should not look for a medium that thrives and pays the bills from contraversy and attention to do it for us, because all we will find there are exaggerated opinions and forced issues to facilitate revenue.
It doesnt mean we should make light of it, indeed each and every act of the above actions is a dispicable thing but the solution isnt what the media currently tries to do.
With TV, Film, Theatre and Music critics we have already reached a point where the gender of said critic rarely gets highlight in response to the critique, largely because its more or less universally accepted that these sorts of media can be and are enjoyed by women just as much as they are by men.
The difference here is that gaming is generally percieved to be a 'man thing' where being female and playing games is rarity as such those in the position to critic these games on soapboxes we call gaming media sites both receive criticism for their words more blatently, and play into their gender to highlight an issue theyre pointing out.
My problem isnt with feminism, its an important movement that brings up important issues the world would be a better place without.
My problem is that rather than tackling an issue we are seeing, fairly often, the issue being brought up in a forced manner to create contraversy where one shouldnt have been, the tomb raider moment being a key example.
The issue here is that by and large its not something we are allowed to discuss subjectively once the topic has been posted, you either agree with the author or youre sexist to some degree, as highlighted by a kotaku editor telling some of the commenting regulars discussing a particular topic to 'leave' nicely demonstrates.
What i dont like is that feminist topics are being used by both men and women in the media essentially to drive hits because they know its a sure fire contraversy subject, and where theres a contraversy, theres a heated debate, and where theres a heated debate theres an increase in ad revenue.
Last but not least I dont like how men are generalized by the term 'male power trip' it is in itself a very sexist term, infact many terms coined by the media to describe the intent or drive behind sexual violence are inherantly sexist, of an editor were to refer to a womans actions in a game as a 'womens whining trip' there would be a massive backlash.
Then theres the automatic assumption thay because a certain person is male and not female that they automatically do not understand how a woman feels about the topic, without ever actually asking a person specifically - as a gender its different, yes, but does that mean we are incapable of understanding how another gender feels? no.
Using sexism to combat sexism just feels sonewhat stupid and undermines the purpose of seeking equality.
Feminist issues need to be resolved but we should not look for a medium that thrives and pays the bills from contraversy and attention to do it for us, because all we will find there are exaggerated opinions and forced issues to facilitate revenue.
They can design and keep the scene however they like.
And Game of Thrones did get a lot of flack for its sex scenes, just check the old OT's. I don't know why you automatically assume that bringing up points against a certain creative decision equates to people demanding it be changed or censored. It's just something to consider when looking at a piece of media.
And as others have mentioned countless times, the concept of rape just isn't the same thing for most men as it is for women. The scene for men would (this is me assuming the best here) be used to break the illusion of fantastical violence he has inflicted and give him a glimpse of what type of person his avatar - and by extension he himself is. But at the end of the day, it really won't affect him, just like how the thought of getting our skull crushed with a brick or getting our dicks cut off isn't an issue for us in our day to day lives. For a woman, it can put her mentally in the role of the female her avatar is about rape, drawing on very real fears and perhaps unfortunately, experiences too.
Now again, should it be changed? That's up to the devs. But it's certainly something to at least take into account.
^^^ lvlzero, it seems as though you're saying this is a false controversy. If so, that's bullshit and a silencing technique.
In terms of this selected quote, I don't feel that as a man I can fully understand the day-to-day concern of being raped that women go through. I can empathise and try to understand but I'll never live that experience.
In terms of this selected quote, I don't feel that as a man I can fully understand the day-to-day concern of being raped that women go through. I can empathise and try to understand but I'll never live that experience.
GameGuru59
Banned
Because for what other purpose would people bring this up if they didn't like it and thus prefer it be changed or altered? That's also often the result after this type of controversy. X creator gives up and Y interest group gets what they want.
That wasnt my intent, buy it essentially is, as the OP's posted article is just an opinion piece that has been blown oit of proportion by this thread, she expressed how the game made her feel and left it at that, rather than ainply commend her for her honesty and agree that rape needs to be handled witb more care we have this entire thread.
But do women genuinely, seriously 'go through each day' thinking "i could be raped at any moment" or do they just think about it when in a particularly scary situation such as a dark alleyway or passing a group of people who dont look very friendly?
As such men would feel something very similar, fear.
Because this is a video game website where we discuss video games. It's okay for me to mention that the art style of Borderlands isn't to my taste but we can't talk about scenes depicting rape? Fuck that.
"Interest group"? What are you talking about?
So she felt betrayed by the game that "she loved"? She "loved" bashing men's heads in, slicing men's throats, cutting men's heads off, blowing men's organs out with various weapons. But the thought of an implied rape scene against a woman is enough for her to make her feel like she was betrayed?
As a man (since I can never get raped right?) I felt like I was missing something so I showed this thread to my girlfriend. She thinks the "rape is worse than murder" bandwagon is laughable.
I don't understand how someone could love doing downright horrible things to men in a pixelated video game yet the implication of doing something far less gruesome (sorry, but it's true) to a woman is met with such shock. I wonder if she would have felt the same way if there were female enemies in the game that your character was dismembering?
As a man (since I can never get raped right?) I felt like I was missing something so I showed this thread to my girlfriend. She thinks the "rape is worse than murder" bandwagon is laughable.
I don't understand how someone could love doing downright horrible things to men in a pixelated video game yet the implication of doing something far less gruesome (sorry, but it's true) to a woman is met with such shock. I wonder if she would have felt the same way if there were female enemies in the game that your character was dismembering?
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