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[sonicmj1]

I'm not sure why the headline is focused on Hepler in particular, considering that, going by the article, she didn't leave Bioware because of the death threats. Though I have no doubt it was a factor.

Jennifer Hepler left BioWare this week to begin work on a book about narrative design and do some freelance work.

Not only that, but it's a great article that covers a ton of different examples. It talks with Stephen Toulouse, former head of Xbox Live enforcement, who is still receiving death threats despite having stepped down from the position two years ago. It also talks with the International Game Developers Association, which is considering creating a support group for developers receiving harassment online. This issue is way, way too common, and I think it's a shame that the topic title will slant the discussion away from the rest of the article.

This quote from Hepler is kind of depressing.

It's something that comes up in almost every conversation with female developers. Overall, people seem to try to shrug it off publicly and fume privately, and younger women contemplating the field are reconsidering whether they have the stomach to handle what it currently asks of them. That's the biggest risk, in my opinion: that we will lose out on the talents of people who would make fantastic games that we would all be the better for playing, because they legitimately don't want to make themselves into targets. A lot of the best artists and storytellers (and quite a few great programmers too), tend to be sensitive people — we shouldn't lose out on their talents because we are requiring them to be tough, battle-scarred veterans just to walk in the door.

I figured it was Hepler. Around the time DA2 was releasing she made some comments that she didn't care about gameplay and wished she could just skip through it altogether to get to the narrative.

I'm sure she's gotten shit for far more than that, just remembering the game DA2 turned out to be, but that always struck me as a foot-in-mouth moment, valid perspective or not.

Anyway, I feel for her. Gaming community is toxic and BioWare probably sees some of the worst of it. You look at their forums and it's right under their nose. And these are the people they make games for? Pfft.

I don't blame her.

She made those comments five years before DA2 came out. She didn't start receiving harassment until close to the game's release, because angry fans wanted a scapegoat for Bioware's decline.

It was childish at the time, and things don't seem to have improved at all.

 

[Aaron]

Yes but take for example the whole Phil Fish nonsense debate.

Marcus Beer was right in calling out Phil Fish but he used it as a excuse to close down his twitter and cancel FEZ 2.

Beer has never been right about anything. He whined like a baby, and got the internet behind him. And because Fish had acted like a complete douche in the past, people felt justified in taking things too far against him. Not as harsh at this, but still it crossed a line. The big difference is it was a line Phil Fish had already crossed himself.

 

[Krilekk]

The ugly side of anonymity.

No, that's just stupidity. The stuff I see on Facebook leads me to believe it is not a problem of anonymity.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

I don't know all the details, but from what I understand her writing and her lack of caring for videogames themselves is why she got the hate.

Which became personal attacks instead of genuine critique because that's all they know.
If they had the intelligence for actual critique then they wouldn't be flinging their poop like this

 

[-COOLIO-]

But she is a horrible writer. It doesn't mean she and her family deserve death threats.

Is it wrong for someone to have an opinion on someone and their work while pointing out the wrong things that have been done to this person?

Having an opinion is fine, but there's a time and a place for them. Calling someone a horrible writer after news broke that they've received a lot of death threats is so not the right time.

Ever noticed how eulogies are mostly positive? There's a reason for that, it's because the person just died.

 

[AppleMIX]

Wow, you're trying so very hard not to say shit that will most likely get you banned, aren't you?

How is that not relevant?

Phil Fish went to twitter to complain about game journalist for asking a completely legitimate question about MS change in indie game policy.

Marcus Beer called him out with hateful language (but Marcus' point was still very much right) and Phil Fish reacted accordingly.

Obviously the death threats are unacceptable and anyone should be shamed for actualy threatening someone's life but people shouldn't throw away criticism because someone happen to use unfriendly language with it.

Beer has never been right about anything. He whined like a baby, and got the internet behind him. And because Fish had acted like a complete douche in the past, people felt justified in taking things too far against him. Not as harsh at this, but still it crossed a line. The big difference is it was a line Phil Fish had already crossed himself.

Keep telling yourself that. How much you hate Marcus has nothing to do with how right or wrong he is.

 

[Leb]

No, that's just stupidity. The stuff I see on Facebook leads me to believe it is not a problem of anonymity.

This right here. The number of hateful, bigoted, racist, homophobic, and downright inhumane things people say under their own names...

 

[grandjedi6]

I don't know all the details, but from what I understand her writing and her lack of caring for videogames themselves is why she got the hate.

I wasn't aware that being disinterested in video games and writing something some people disliked warrants hatred and death threats.

 

[sonicmj1]

Also, I'm pretty sure that Jennifer Hepler doesn't dislike video games. If she does, I don't know why she has such a strong, continued interest in writing for them.

Without the negativity, I'm not sure that I would ever have heard from all of these people confirming that there is a need for characters that tackle touchy social issues, for characters who are untraditional or even unlikeable. It has definitely strengthened my desire to continue to make games that strive for inclusivity and that use fiction and fantasy to explore difficult, uncomfortable real-world issues.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

People make death threats for the most irrational reasons nowadays...

 

[Tiglet]

It's called being a decent person. The video game industry seems to be the only one with absolute mindless hatred towards women. The publishers are scared of putting strong women in their games because they think the COD fags will run away or burn down their house or something. Th industry may not but the gamers definitely treat women like 2nd or even 3rd class. It's not White Knighting, it's being supportive of equality.

wow... ok.

 

[Taruranto]

Doesn't every developer ever get death threats at this point anyway?

But seriously, not to defend them or anything, but people should stop taking seriously what angry 12 years old say on the Internet.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Gaming has shitty fans.

So do musicians and artists.

And sports teams.

And political parties.

And religions.

The world is full of stupid, vile people and they are not exclusive to the gaming community. They're pretty much everywhere.

Pretty much this. Enthusiasm and a dangerous lack of social development or experience lead to this shit. Especially when said lack of experience and or void is being compensated by an unhealthy fixation with other peoples creation (music, games, books, movies)

 

[davepoobond]

"i swear, if you don't make another Bubble Bobble...."



people need to relax.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

The funny part is that you will never see this kind of vitirol against say government agencies like the NSA because of the fear of reprisal. One little "Go die Obama" or "I'll kill Michelle" and they will throw your ass in the deepest, darkest pit they can find and you will never be heard from again. And will be completely justified in doing so.

What can poor Jennifer Helper do though? Just an innocent civilian.
Attacking her makes the sweaty nerds feel big and strong.

 

[SJRB]

A sad state of affairs. I always enjoyed the silly Hamburger Hepler jokes, but death threats of course are way out of line.

Best of luck to her.

 

[Spookie]

Threatening family/her is obviously wrong however valid criticism can often be accompanied with harmful language.

If a person can't put together a coherent sentence without a torrid of abuse to get their point across. Maybe that person isn't worth listening to.

But seriously, not to defend them or anything, but people should stop taking seriously what angry 12 years old say on the Internet.

It's getting to the point in the UK where the tabloids and rolling news are now talking about it, quite literally, 24/7. We've had one suicide due to bullying online and a couple of high profile folks and MPs are getting rape/death threats over twitter. There is currently a lot of hot air about finally getting around to sorting this problem out.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Doesn't every developer ever get death threats at this point anyway?

But seriously, not to defend them or anything, but people should stop taking seriously what angry 12 years old say on the Internet.

A death threat is a death threat.

Are 90% just assholes? Yes.

But it's still a death. threat.

When people go into detail about how they would kill your kids on their way to school, that's kind of important.

The funny part is that you will never see this kind of vitirol against say government agencies like the NSA because of the fear of reprisal. One little "Go die Obama" or "I'll kill Michelle" and they will throw your ass in the deepest, darkest pit they can find and you will never be heard from again. And will be completely justified in doing so.

You obviously didn't hear the story about how the secret service detained someone who jokingly put out a $20m bounty on Obama over Twitter.

 

[Aaron]

Keep telling yourself that. How much you hate Marcus has nothing to do with how right or wrong he is.

That is literally the first time I've said anything about him, but judging from the things he's posted that have been mentioned here, he's always wrong. I'm not sure why you feel so strongly to defend your point that you invent motivations in others.

 

[AppleMIX]

If a person can't put together a coherent sentence without a torrid of abuse to get their point across. Maybe that person isn't worth listening to.

What matter is the message not how it is delivered. Sure, its better the provide a nice cogent argument but we really don't have that luxury most of the time.

That is literally the first time I've said anything about him, but judging from the things he's posted that have been mentioned here, he's always wrong. I'm not sure why you feel so strongly to defend your point that you invent motivations in others.

It doesn't matter. He was right for calling out Phil Fish complaining about game journalist for actually doing games journalism.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Making her leave her job was probably the goal of the threats.

 

[-COOLIO-]

If a person can't put together a coherent sentence without a torrid of abuse to get their point across. Maybe that person isn't worth listening to.

Definitely, but like jim sterling said, it's not up to us who we listen too, as soon as you've read the negative comment it's done its damage. No matter how tough you are, it chips away at your armor.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

What matter is the message not how it is delivered.

.... are you fucking serious?

Can I threaten your life because I dislike your posts?

 

[Yasae]

The only reason to mention the quality of her writing is to imply she does or is more deserving of death threats. Please don't make this stupid argument.

 

[-COOLIO-]

What matter is the message not how it is delivered.

*stupefied*

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

AppleMIX, do you understand that you basically just gave a cop-out blanket for any kind of hate speech?

 

[grandjedi6]

What matter is the message not how it is delivered. Sure, its better the provide a nice cogent argument but we really don't have that luxury most of the .

Hahaha. What? That's so naive. Life is constantly about message delivery. From getting a job to just answering questions.

 

[weker]

Stuff like these constantly makes me question internet privacy.
It's one of those topics where there where plenty of valid complaints about her writing, however many people got grouped up with with the vocal arsehole insult throwers, it's like the DMC hate but way worse.

It seems like the protection that people have on the internet would need to be toned down to try stop these people, or people would need to be taught to better move on and not take in these comments.

 

[AppleMIX]

.... are you fucking serious?

Can I threaten your life because I dislike your posts?

*stupefied*

And you're clearly not reading my posts. (Nice strawman)

I clearly said that death threats are unacceptable but non-death threats like calling someone a "hipster" isn't a excuse for to automatic rejection of criticism.

Hahaha. What? That's so naive. Life is constantly about message delivery. From getting a job to just answering questions.

This is the internet we're talking about, not a job interview.

 

[Fornaximus]

Naming two men who've got attacked by the internet and 1 woman who hasn't (yet), doesn't negate my point or eliminate the overall mistreatment of women by the internet.

So it's ok for you to rally around one, but if I provide examples to the contrary, no dice?

 

[KittenMaster]

however valid criticism can often be accompanied with harmful language.

I have never seen an instance where this is the case. Even if you made a strong argument along with insulting somebody's work or somebody themselves, they will just ignore it (as they probably should).

 

[docbon]

Or how about: If you can't be respectful and judge works based on it's merits alone, shut the fuck up.

The fact that some of us are so quick to say "If you can't handle it too bad for you" instead of "Maybe we should provide criticism of the work and leave the writers family and personal life out of it" is both hilarious and sad at the same time. There are a lot of reasons Dragon Age II isn't a well-written game in my opinion. Could she improve her work based on HELPFUL criticism? Absolutely. Now, we'll never see that happen because people take fucking video games so goddamn personally and attack personal lives.

Video gamers as a whole are so incredibly juvenile. It's sad that so many of those that act this way are adults who should know better too.



Victim blaming. Fantastic.

This is why i love you on a strictly platonic level, sharky~~

 

[sonicmj1]

Tell that to Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, or to Amy Hennig. Two royally trashed males from BioWare, and a female praised for creating Uncharted. Gender has nothing to do with it beyond lazy insults. If you do bad work, you're gonna hear about it. If you do good work, you'll be recognized for it. It is my understanding that a) Hepler is a bad writer, and b) dislikes video games.

As someone else already said...

What makes you certain that Amy Hennig has not received death threats?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This is the internet we're talking about, not a job interview.

And that means we can't be civil?

As for your other comment, you can backpedal all you want, but what you wrote is on this very page.

 

[AppleMIX]

And that means we can't be civil?

Sure being civil is nice but hardly realistic on the internet.

 

[Aaron]

It doesn't matter. He was right for calling out Phil Fish complaining about game journalist for actually doing games journalism.

What? No he wasn't. He was whining because his ego was hurt. Asking a question and getting ignored is part of journalism. Real journalists don't throw a fit on twitter because of it because it's unprofessional.

 

[Valnen]

I will never understand why do people cling so much to that. She's a writer, her job is to write story and dialogs, not design gameplay. She can hate video games for all I care because she is responsible for the non-interactive (or the least interactive) part of the game.

Video game companies should never, ever hire someone that doesn't play video games.

Doesn't justify this treatment though.

 

[Blue Ninja]

That's messed up.

 

[AppleMIX]

What? No he wasn't. He was whining because his ego was hurt. Asking a question and getting ignored is part of journalism. Real journalists don't throw a fit on twitter because of it because it's unprofessional.

Phil Fish and Johnathan Blow went on twitter and bitched about games journalist for having the audacity to ask the questions that are completely relevant to them.

They simply could of said, no comment or I need more information but instead bitch about it on twitter and got called out on it.

And that means we can't be civil?

As for your other comment, you can backpedal all you want, but what you wrote is on this very page.

What back pedal?

I said this

Obviously the death threats are unacceptable and anyone should be shamed for actually threatening someone's life

Maybe it could of been worded better but it was my intent was what I said in my second post.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Sure being civil is nice but hardly realistic on the internet.

I'd rather not just excuse people being assholes because "it's the internet", thanks...

 

[Fornaximus]

What makes you certain that Amy Hennig has not received death threats?

Probably that fact that gamers have no reason to hate her. She's very good at what she does. She makes great games. She's not a controversial figure. Any level of controversy will get you death threats on the internet, no matter your career or gender. Hell, I've lost count of the number of death threats I've received just from playing online games or posting opinions on forums over the years. There's always going to be a pocket of belligerent people who go for the throat simply to entertain themselves.

 

[Spookie]

Definitely, but like jim sterling said, it's not up to us who we listen too, as soon as you've read the negative comment it's done its damage. No matter how tough you are, it chips away at your armor.

Oh I know that feeling as someone who works in customer service/tech support.

Sure being civil is nice but hardly realistic on the internet.

Entirely dependent on where you communicate with others. I've seen a few communities which actively reject users who can't act like a civilized human being. They have moderators but the actual community itself doesn't stand for it.

 

[patapuf]

What matter is the message not how it is delivered. Sure, its better the provide a nice cogent argument but we really don't have that luxury most of the time.

No, the delivery of the message matters a lot.

What do you think is better for the author: "i didn't like point x in your story" or "you suck, get cancer!"

And we almost always have the "luxury" of making a nice cogent argument, especially when talking about something like games. One could start by being polite. If you feel the need to spout insults to get a point across you are not worth taking seriously in any debate.

 

[grandjedi6]

This is the internet we're talking about, not a job interview.

If you have the time and energy to get angry about something and make posts on the internet criticizing it, you might as well also take the time to avoid vile insults.

The idea that "its just the internet" and we don't need standards for it, died a long time ago. Nowadays, with how tied our lives are to the internet and how often we communicate through it, we just can't keep going on like that.

So it's ok for you to rally around one, but if I provide examples to the contrary, no dice?

I assure you its not just one. Obviously. But even if it was, that doesn't make it meaningless. People shouldn't have to go through with this kind of shit. And it doesn't matter if there was 1 contrary example or thousands, this isn't some percentages game where everything is alright as long as the majority isn't victimized.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Sure being civil is nice but hardly realistic on the internet.

Check my post history since 2007. It's pretty spotless.

 

[Gillian Seed]

BioWare fans are ridiculous.

I hate Mac Walters with a passion but death threats is going too far. I was kind of hoping he was the person the title was referring too..

You hate someone you don't even know? That's scary.

 

[Fornaximus]

I assure you its not just one. Obviously. But even if it was, that doesn't make it meaningless. People shouldn't have to go through with this kind of shit. And it doesn't matter if there was 1 contrary example or thousands, this isn't some percentages game where everything is alright as long as the majority isn't victimized.

I never said it was meaningless or ok. I'm just not interested in watching you throw a pity party for an entire gender when that clearly is not the basis for the criticism against her.

 

[sonicmj1]

Probably that fact that gamers have no reason to hate her. She's very good at what she does. She makes great games. She's not a controversial figure. Any level of controversy will get you death threats on the internet, no matter your career or gender. Hell, I've lost count of the number of death threats I've received just from playing online games or posting opinions on forums over the years. There's always going to be a pocket of belligerent people who go for the throat simply to entertain themselves.

Did people have reason to hate you when they sent you death threats for playing video games online?

Anyone sending death threats is already not being reasonable, so there's no reason to assume those death threats have a legitimate basis. Maybe someone hates her for not pairing Drake and Chloe, or for not making Legacy of Kain games anymore, or because they're just that scummy. It doesn't matter what the reason is.

There's no justified reason to send someone anonymous death threats over the internet.

 

[nickp]

I can't believe so many of you are arguing over this. There is absolutely no sound argument for people to treat others this way. None. It's particularly disturbing in the gaming industry, but we're not alone.

The problem is much bigger than us. There is a serious empowerment issue in our society today and while the Internet plays a starring role in its development, the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of people. We are responsible for every choice we make. It churns my stomach to think of how irresponsible many people are today. The sense of entitlement I see every day is nothing short of frightening.

We need to start acting like human beings. We need to take responsibility for our actions. Nothing is more important right now.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Video game companies should never, ever hire someone that doesn't play video games.

My sarcasm detector is broken so please tell me you're joking.