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[Race to be King]

Therefore you can not state with any great certainty that feminists are looking out for men, or care to do so.

No, of course I can't. I can only be held responsible for my own actions.

Why do you keep trying to lump all feminists together and insist that we must all agree on all points? We're not a political party. The concept is a very broad one.

 

[BigDes]

No, of course I can't. I can only be held responsible for my own actions.

Why do you keep trying to lump all feminists together and insist that we must all agree on all points? We're not a political party. The concept is a very broad one.

It's easier to create an enemy when they're a unified group

 

[Jburton]

No, of course I can't. I can only be held responsible for my own actions.

Why do you keep trying to lump all feminists together and insist that we must all agree on all points? We're not a political party. The concept is a very broad one.

I am not purposefully trying to lump you all together, as you say it is a concept that is open to individual interpretation and so on but what I can judge feminism on is by its performance and so to say that the concept has gender equality at heart etc is all well and good but when I look to see any examples of fighting gender inequality or other issues that effect men in certain areas you will see none by any feminist groups.

So to say it is not just about women because the concept has space for equality for men has no bearing in the real world when you can only judge feminists / groups of based on their actions ...... not on the concept.

 

[Jburton]

It's easier to create an enemy when they're a unified group

I am creating an enemy? .......how very condescending and defensive.

Feminists are not my enemy, but they are not working for me either .......... so men must work for themselves, which is fine.

 

[Soodanim]

But the beauty of it is is that that definition also equates for stuff where men are lacking. Equality with men, not 'lording over men'. Not 'becoming the dominant sex'. Equality.

Well, yes, the standard definition entails advocating for equality among genders; that's precisely what I just said.

But what I originally said is equality for everyone. I didn't just mean gender inequality.

 

[BigDes]

I am creating an enemy? .......how very condescending and defensive.

Feminists are not my enemy, but they are not working for me either .......... so men must work for themselves, which is fine.

You are certainly seem to be working to create a status of 'other' between men and women. I mean I apologize if I have got the wrong end of the stick here but your argument really seems to be that we should ignore the problems women face because men also have problems.

 

[dapperbandit]

Me or the tumblr poster?

the Tumblr poster.

Obviously these are important issues but they shouldn't shape every moment of your day. If you're chastising someone for doing something that's considered polite...it just sucks. It actually happened to me as well, I hold doors open for everyone, men and women, if they're walking close behind me, or if we're both coming to the door from different sides, I let the other person pass. Being labelled a sexist for trying to do someone a small favour really pissed me off.

 

[Race to be King]

I am not purposefully trying to lump you all together, as you say it is a concept that is open to individual interpretation and so on but what I can judge feminism on is by its performance and so to say that the concept has gender equality at heart etc is all well and good but when I look to see any examples of fighting gender inequality or other issues that effect men in certain areas you will see none by any feminist groups.

So to say it is not just about women because the concept has space for equality for men has no bearing in the real world when you can only judge feminists / groups of based on their actions ...... not on the concept.

Okay, you say 'education seems to be slanted towards girls in general'. Can you offer some evidence that this is the case, and suggest what feminist groups with a focus on education could do about it without just tipping the balance back the other way?

 

[Devolution]

But what I originally said is equality for everyone. I didn't just mean gender inequality.

Okay and how would you go about this? How would you divvy up "egalitarianism" to laser focus on actual problems?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

This isn't really an "internet" problem, but more of a general problem.

See, celebrities saying dumb shit like "I'm for equality, but I'm no feminist because I love men".

 

[Jburton]

You are certainly seem to be working to create a status of 'other' between men and women. I mean I apologize if I have got the wrong end of the stick here but your argument really seems to be that we should ignore the problems women face because men also have problems.

Nope, I am saying that although the concept of feminism has space for gender inequality issues for both genders ..... the actions of feminists / groups has be solely focused on women ...... which is fine.

But asking men to support feminism on the pretence that it will help them as well is a bit of a falsehood when we see the actions of feminists in regards to gender inequality issues faced by men .... nothing.


I support feminism as a means of empowering women which is a good thing, but as a man my primary concern is men's issues ...... just as women's issues are the primary concern of feminists.

 

[Jburton]

Okay, you say 'education seems to be slanted towards girls in general'. Can you offer some evidence that this is the case, and suggest what feminist groups with a focus on education could do about it without just tipping the balance back the other way?

The fact that boys are falling way behind girls in all aspects of education reflects on the fact that education is failing boys but is working for girls ...... there have obviously been changes in teaching styles and curriculum that work to the benefit of girls and have had an adverse effect on boys.

If it was simply girls where catching up to boys after being oppressed we would see numbers closer to being equal rather than one going up and one going down.

 

[BigDes]

Nope, I am saying that although the concept of feminism has space for gender inequality issues for both genders ..... the actions of feminists / groups has be solely focused on women ...... which is fine.

But asking men to support feminism on the pretence that it will help them as well is a bit of a falsehood when we see the actions of feminists in regards to gender inequality issues faced by men .... nothing.


I support feminism as a means of empowering women which is a good thing, but as a man my primary concern is men's issues ...... just as women's issues are the primary concern of feminists.

I don't see it so its not happening.

Question, how hard have you been looking?

 

[Acorn]

This isn't really an "internet" problem, but more of a general problem.

See, celebrities saying dumb shit like "I'm for equality, but I'm no feminist because I love men".

This, feminism and wrong assumptions about it outdate the internet by a generation atleast.

 

[Jburton]

I don't see it so its not happening.

Question, how hard have you been looking?

If its that easy to find examples then show me ...... You are arguing the case.

 

[Race to be King]

The fact that boys are falling way behind girls in all aspects of education reflects on the fact that education is failing boys but is working for girls ...... there have obviously been changes in teaching styles and curriculum that work to the benefit of girls and have had an adverse effect on boys.

If it was simply girls where catching up to boys after being oppressed we would see numbers closer to being equal rather than one going up and one going down.

And the second part of my question?

 

[Deleted member 20920]

It's seriously just a plot to subvert the male gender, kill the inferior ones, put the rest in cages for breeding. I know. We have secret cabals where we instruct women how to brainwash people that it's really all about gender equality. But the truth of the matter is we won't be happy till we eat your hearts and dance naked under the goddess moon being warmed by the fire as our bras turn to ash.

Can the gays get some of your caged men please?

The fact that boys are falling way behind girls in all aspects of education reflects on the fact that education is failing boys but is working for girls ...... there have obviously been changes in teaching styles and curriculum that work to the benefit of girls and have had an adverse effect on boys.

If it was simply girls where catching up to boys after being oppressed we would see numbers closer to being equal rather than one going up and one going down.

Any evidence for this? I have not been shown any research that suggests this relationship. It's always just people suggesting that this is the case and none being able to actually tell me how girls are being privileged .What are some of these newer methods of teaching that helped girls more than boys? Are they and could there be other reasons that boys are falling behind? I.e. Reasons that are not simply "it's the girls and how they are more slanted towards them"? I think it would be interesting to actually read a proper research piece that deals with possible reasons and not just one single reason.

People always throw me numbers and not the how and why of these numbers.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Yeah the problem is that people use the extreme posters and use them as a generalized personification... but then again your average human being likes to do that.

Its not just an internet thing. Often highly publicized Internet articles regarding x dumb shit a feminist does equate all feminism with extremist feminism, or at least responses to them do. Sort of an issue feminism has had for many, many decades; there have been groups that have thought the term should be replaced with one that lacks the given reputation, counterarguments that its admitting defeat and taking power away from the movement itself etc.

It does go beyond the internet.

Still, it's really sad that the hobbies you enjoy have people who act either ignorant or chauvinistic.

 

[Mindwipe]

In a nutshell. Just because some people think that means 'man hating horrible person' doesn't change the core ideals of the movement.

But it does mean that the ideals of the movement have to be so vague and so completely lacking in implementation details that such a definition is completely meaningless.

Stripping back to that lack of detail is like defining facism and communism as the same on the basis that they seek to "improve the lot of wider humanity." Well yes, but the hows and if they are successful and what else they want to chuck overboard on the way is quite important.

Pro-sex and anti-sex feminism is one example of an implementation schism that results in two sides that effectively have no ideological common ground and aren't the same movement.

 

[Famassu]

I am not purposefully trying to lump you all together, as you say it is a concept that is open to individual interpretation and so on but what I can judge feminism on is by its performance and so to say that the concept has gender equality at heart etc is all well and good but when I look to see any examples of fighting gender inequality or other issues that effect men in certain areas you will see none by any feminist groups.

So to say it is not just about women because the concept has space for equality for men has no bearing in the real world when you can only judge feminists / groups of based on their actions ...... not on the concept.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that when we drive for equality for women, a lot of things kind of fall into place for men too (not always, but usually they do). I.e. when we drive equality at workplace, it has simultaneously become more acceptable for man to not be the breadwinner of the household and they can even be stay at home dads. And when we don't enforce the image that women make the food in the family, we get men involved in making their own food, which is often healthier for men than not being able to cook and eating junk food all the time if/when they don't have a woman cooking for them (not that all women cook healthy food).

And I'm sorry, but as an educator, I don't see anything in my job how I would somehow shunt boys' learning and favor the girls. I try to use all kinds of teaching methods so that all kinds of learners would be in equal stature in the classroom (be that visual learners vs. the kind who learn just by reading stuff, or more active participation (which boys often like more) vs. more traditional teaching, boys vs girls). The problem is quite likely much larger than Evil Feminists turning schools against boys and it's probably not something that feminism has caused or can (alone) find an answer to.

 

[maquiladora]

The thing you don't seem to understand is that when we drive for equality for women, a lot of things kind of fall into place for men too (not always, but usually they do). I.e. when we drive equality at workplace, it has simultaneously become more acceptable for man to not be the breadwinner of the household and they can even be stay at home dads. And when we don't enforce the image that women make the food in the family, we get men involved in making their own food, which is often healthier for men than not being able to cook and eating junk food all the time if/when they don't have a woman cooking for them (not that all women cook healthy food).

And I'm sorry, but as an educator, I don't see anything in my job how I would somehow shunt boys' learning and favor the girls. I try to use all kinds of teaching methods so that all kinds of learners would be in equal stature in the classroom (be that visual learners vs. the kind who learn just by reading stuff, or more active participation (which boys often like more) vs. more traditional teaching, boys vs girls). The problem is quite likely much larger than Evil Feminists turning schools against boys and it's probably not something that feminism has caused or can (alone) find an answer to.

Great post.

 

[rvy]

I understand feminism in real life. I don't understand feminism on the internet.

 

[Kinyou]

I think the current popularity of Femen isn't helping much. They actually come off as extremely aggressive and there even was a case where they threatened some alleged rapist with cutting of his dick. They play right into the stereotype

 

[Famassu]

I think the current popularity of Femen isn't helping much. They actually come off as extremely aggressive and there even was a case where they threatened some alleged rapist with cutting of his dick. They play right into the stereotype

Loud minority of extremists make all kinds of groups that are somehow ideologically or elsewise (however loosely or tightly) connected look bad, news at 11. People really should be wiser than to judge something based on that. I know a lot of people aren't, sadly.

 

[RionaaM]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... Could you please explain, using simpler words?

 

[Acorn]

Loud minority of extremists make all kinds of groups that are somehow ideologically or elsewise (however loosely or tightly) connected look bad, news at 11. People really should be wiser than to judge something based on that. I know a lot of people aren't, sadly.

People still think Stalinism is at all related to Marx. You hope for too much.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

This one .


In this thread we have people posting that men rape women to feal powerful

But then when men get raped its a problem because they don't want to feel/seem weak like a woman.

See women are the victim even when a man is raped.

Now perhaps its not how these people wanted their posts to come across , but its certainly how they are read .
At the end of the day there are issues on both sides but we can never truly be equal. No set of laws or movements will do that.

W H A T

 

[Boss Doggie]

The thing you don't seem to understand is that when we drive for equality for women, a lot of things kind of fall into place for men too (not always, but usually they do). I.e. when we drive equality at workplace, it has simultaneously become more acceptable for man to not be the breadwinner of the household and they can even be stay at home dads. And when we don't enforce the image that women make the food in the family, we get men involved in making their own food, which is often healthier for men than not being able to cook and eating junk food all the time if/when they don't have a woman cooking for them (not that all women cook healthy food).

And I'm sorry, but as an educator, I don't see anything in my job how I would somehow shunt boys' learning and favor the girls. I try to use all kinds of teaching methods so that all kinds of learners would be in equal stature in the classroom (be that visual learners vs. the kind who learn just by reading stuff, or more active participation (which boys often like more) vs. more traditional teaching, boys vs girls). The problem is quite likely much larger than Evil Feminists turning schools against boys and it's probably not something that feminism has caused or can (alone) find an answer to.

Perfect pose right here.

 

[SmackDaddy]

It's kinda scary how a group of like-minded individuals who know nothing about a subject can cause a ruckus.

a ruckus isn't caused. it's a loud yell heard by nobody important

 

[akira28]

You can't realistically lump "the people online" into any one category except for "uses technological device to send information for communication".

the internet isn't a person or single entity, it's a beach with billions of grains of sand.

 

[Tacitus_]

Can the gays get some of your caged men please?

Being gay is misogynist! You woman hater you.

Spoiler

not serious

Any evidence for this? I have not been shown any research that suggests this relationship. It's always just people suggesting that this is the case and none being able to actually tell me how girls are being privileged .What are some of these newer methods of teaching that helped girls more than boys? Are they and could there be other reasons that boys are falling behind? I.e. Reasons that are not simply "it's the girls and how they are more slanted towards them"? I think it would be interesting to actually read a proper research piece that deals with possible reasons and not just one single reason.

People always throw me numbers and not the how and why of these numbers.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/

 

[Jburton]

The thing you don't seem to understand is that when we drive for equality for women, a lot of things kind of fall into place for men too (not always, but usually they do). I.e. when we drive equality at workplace, it has simultaneously become more acceptable for man to not be the breadwinner of the household and they can even be stay at home dads. And when we don't enforce the image that women make the food in the family, we get men involved in making their own food, which is often healthier for men than not being able to cook and eating junk food all the time if/when they don't have a woman cooking for them (not that all women cook healthy food).

And I'm sorry, but as an educator, I don't see anything in my job how I would somehow shunt boys' learning and favor the girls. I try to use all kinds of teaching methods so that all kinds of learners would be in equal stature in the classroom (be that visual learners vs. the kind who learn just by reading stuff, or more active participation (which boys often like more) vs. more traditional teaching, boys vs girls). The problem is quite likely much larger than Evil Feminists turning schools against boys and it's probably not something that feminism has caused or can (alone) find an answer to.

So the extent of benefits that feminism provides men is by challenging traditional gender roles places upon women ..... men are free to do the same and to cook better food?

Secondly I never said evil feminists where responsible for the slump in performance of boys in education ..... in fact I never said feminists had anything to with it all .......... your puerile attempt to make me seem foolish by stating something I never said in a manner I was not displaying only belittles your own point.

I never said feminists could fix problems in school, I stated that there was a serious problem with boys doing well in school and it was one of the issues facing men.

I never stated that there was anything specific within teaching that was causing teachers or the system to intentionally shun boys, again your making glib points based on nothing.

I stated that something was causing an inequality in performance and I wondered where the vocal feminists raising this issue (as men groups are frowned upon and deemed unnecessary) had gone?

 

[Mumei]

I don't think rape has to be only a feminist issue. I think everyone would agree it's a bad thing and more should be done in general regardless of gender. But I don't think that means that feminists or however people choose to identify themselves cannot also help educate and push for change if the issue affects them. One group having an issue on their agenda doesn't mean no one else can. This isn't an exclusive society right?

Well, I think it's a "feminist issue" insofar as feminists were the ones who brought sexual assault of women to more public attention and put the issue on the table. So to that extent, when you talk about advocacy around rape issues - prevention, victims services, education, etc. - I'm going to associate it with feminism because of that history.

It doesn't mean that anyone who involves themselves in those things necessarily identifies as a feminist, though.

I stated that something was causing an inequality in performance and I wondered where the vocal feminists raising this issue (as men groups are frowned upon and deemed unnecessary) had gone?

I made a topic about an upcoming documentary around this (and other issues) that much to my chagrin - though not to my surprise - did not get much attention.

From the OP:

Compared to girls, research shows that boys in the U.S. are more likely to be diagnosed with a behavior disorder, prescribed stimulant medications, fail out of school, binge drink, commit a violent crime, and/or take their own lives.

Jennifer Siebel Newsom's new documentary film, The Mask You Live In, asks: As a society, how are we failing our boys?

Why This Film Matters

At a young age, boys learn that to express compassion or empathy is to show weakness. They hear confusing messages that force them to repress their emotions, establish hierarchies, and constantly prove their masculinity. They often feel compelled to abide by a rigid code of conduct that affects their relationships, narrows their definition of success and, in some cases, leads to acts of violence resulting in what many researchers call a “boy crisis.” Our society’s failure to recognize and care for the social and emotional well-being of our boys contributes to a nation of young men who navigate adversity and conflict with an incomplete emotional skill set. Whether boys and later men have chosen to resist or conform to this masculine norm, there is loneliness, anxiety, and pain.

The Mask You Live In documentary will examine how gender stereotypes are interconnected with race, class, and circumstance, and how kids are further influenced by the education system, sports culture, and mass media- video games and pornography in particular. The film also highlights the importance of placing emphasis on the social and emotional needs of boys through healthy family communication, alternative teaching strategies, conscious media consumption, positive role modeling and innovative mentorship programs.

Our Goal

To make a film that sparks a national conversation around masculinity and ultimately creates a more balanced, equitable society for all.

The Mask You Live In film will target youth, families, caregivers, coaches, and mental health professionals. But we are confident the film will speak to the masses.

Our previous film, Miss Representation, has proven that there is demand for this kind of storytelling. Further, we’ve seen the impact that documentary filmmaking, accompanied by social action campaigns, can have in shifting consciousness, changing behavior, and ultimately transforming culture. As a result, we are confident in our ability to do it again with The Mask You Live In documentary. But we need your help.

 

[Pau]

To the poster asking what feminists are doing for boys in education: that movie Mumei posted about is directed by a feminist whose previous film was about damaging representations of women in media.

 

[Patryn]

I think the question is too broad. As many pointed out, the Internet is not a person and thus cannot inherently understand something.

At the same time, feminism is not a singular thing. Are we talking second-wave? Third-wave? Radical? Pro-sex? Anti-sex? I have a feeling that if you gathered a group of self-proclaimed feminists together, it's likely that they would have issues with what exactly the specific definition of feminism is.

That's not to belittle the movement or the subject. I agree that feminism has a bad rap on the internet. There are many who have tried to demonize it over the years, and the Men's Rights movement especially has been really active on the internet in places like Reddit further that demonization.

Of course, the internet has also helped to bring the more extreme elements of any movement to the forefront, and...

I think I lost my train of thought. Basically, shit's complex, yo.

 

[Jburton]

To the poster asking what feminists are doing for boys in education: that movie Mumei posted about is directed by a feminist whose previous film was about damaging representations of women in media.

Great news, I asked for an example and got one ....... thanks for the heads up Mumei.

An exception, rather than the rule but it is heartening to see ......... I do still believe that in general feminism is more a vehicle expressly for women's concerns and that there is a place for men's advocacy groups that fight for issues such as education and men's health ....... not groups that spend their times going against feminists.

 

[Pau]

Great news, I asked for an example and got one ....... thanks for the heads up Mumei.

An exception, rather than the rule but it is heartening to see ......... I do still believe that in general feminism is more a vehicle expressly for women's concerns and that there is a place for men's advocacy groups that fight for issues such as education and men's health ....... not groups that spend their times going against feminists.

There is definitely a place for groups to focus on men's issues - and yes, there are quite a few already who deal with education and aren't interested in making feminists an enemy. As for other things feminists are doing for boys in education: they are very much invested in working against people who use very inaccurate studies to support the idea of segregated education. The kind of education that thinks boys are incapable of understandig literature or anything that isn't math or science. Feminists are very much for recognizing that people learn differently but they don't want anyone - girls or boys - to be screwed over because of their gender.

 

[AlimNassor]

nobody on the internet understands feminism, not even feminists. Too many feminists think any attempt at mens rights means you hate women and want to put them into the kitchen, too many feminists think anything is a direct attack on them. I visit many feminist forums, lot of reasonable folk, but, too many extremists who think not supporting feminism makes you misogynistic.

On the other hand, MRAs are just as bad. Both make good points, but, would rather do "he said, she said", and force people to join their sides, it's never a middle. It's always "you're either with us, or you hate women or you hate men". I mean, my experience with both sides as been mostly negative. Want an example of feminism gone wrong? Go to tumblr. The social justice warriors on tumblr are rather insane and go berserk over anything.

 

[SJS]

I'm going to give as descriptive an answer as possible without describing my viewpoint on the matter.

Who actually wants to? If you even dare to express a viewpoint on either side of the feminism debate, you will be ostracized as a sexist and alienate your friends of a certain sex. Most people simply refuse to participate and end up supporting the status quo because of this fact. This creates a feedback loop in how we address these issues because the people who like / dislike feminism are not satisfied with the status quo and those who they perceive as maintaining it, allowing others to observe the vitriol in debates on these matters (and so on and so forth).

 

[Photolysis]

I know what feminism claims, which is to want equality for women and to give them the freedom and tools to live their lives how they want.

What I've actually observed is that this commendable goal is very rarely the aim of most of the feminists I've seen, and that it's usually about obtaining as many advantages as they can get, while denying or minimising the existence of them.

What I would also note is that when there are fundamental inequalities then a completely fair solution is impossible; someone can always argue it's unfair. A good example would be a gender-specific disease, but one costs 10x as much to treat than the other, both with the same prevalence and mortality rate. If you treat them equally based on how lethal the condition is, you're spending far more on one side than the other. Unfair! If you treat by cost, one side is dying far more than the other due to underfunding. Unfair!

If you truly want equality then you have to care about the other side(s) by definition. Personally, I'd like to see equality as far as it practically possible and thus I care what happens to women, just as I care about how men are treated. I might disagree over certain things, but what you won't see me do is claim to want equality and only care about making sure I as a man get the upper hand all the time.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

Men have their own specific issues, but it is still a man's world.

 

[BocoDragon]

Men have their own specific issues, but it is still a man's world.

I do think that's a fair way to put it.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Nothing I have ever read claims that feminism wants equality for everyone, but if that is indeed true then fair play to the cause, however inaccurate the name.

That is exactly what it is about.

Men face many issues, too.
The expectation that they must be the bread winner, must be a "man", must be macho, must be the leader, etc. originates way back.

This culture was defined by men. Men were the domineering force of thought on how a society was to be run. They had their expectations for women and men.

Feminism is about addressing the culture that has been established (which men ultimately played the biggest role). Because not only does patriarchy harm women, it harms men, too.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I'm going to give as descriptive an answer as possible without describing my viewpoint on the matter.

Who actually wants to? If you even dare to express a viewpoint on either side of the feminism debate, you will be ostracized as a sexist and alienate your friends of a certain sex. Most people simply refuse to participate and end up supporting the status quo because of this fact. This creates a feedback loop in how we address these issues because the people who like / dislike feminism are not satisfied with the status quo and those who they perceive as maintaining it, allowing others to observe the vitriol in debates on these matters (and so on and so forth).

This is unfortunate. And it is a shame that critics of feminism will attack some of the flawed feminist beliefs and paint the entire idea of feminism as something bad.

Yes, you can find someone who self identifies as a feminist and is incredibly hostile towards men. And it is very easy to paint that person as a poster child for the feminist movement.

I was guilty of it at a time, too. There are stupid people on all sides of a debate. I've met some really dumb and naive liberals. Yet I generally believe liberalism itself is far more rooted in empirical data than conservatism.

 

[Reuenthal]

The internet reflects the opinions of people who post there, it is not as if these people don't hold those opinions. In the real world a lot of people don't have the same opinions as certain feminists do.
The reason there is this idea about feminism being greatly misunderstood in certain feminists is because

A) They are delusional, close minded, dogmatic people who find the idea of anyone disagreeing with them incomprehensible. They are like most partisans in their echo chamber and strawmen of those who disagree with them. Other people are certainly idiots who misunderstand them instead of having valid disagreements with these delusional, close minded, dogmatic people. In short it is because certain feminists lack self awareness and find it more easy and comforting to have a persecution complex. This is not unique to feminists at all. If you visit echo chambers of conservatives, liberals, Nintendo fans, PC fans, etc, you will see the same thing.

B) A lot of people do misunderstand feminism. Some see only the empty part of the glass which does exist, others just want to keep women down.

 

[ZaCH3000]

The feminism you are describing is about the 18th and 19th century feminist movements that challenged many opinions during the period of enlightenment. My knowledge of the subject is basic.

I think what has happened is the modern feminist has devalued the feminist efforts during the 18th, 19th and early 20th century by not fully understanding the movements of those times creating hostile debates when challenging social norms.

I think resistors to feminists for the most part want equality across genders. I certainly do but I've had conversations and debates with self-proclaimed feminists on issues that make me sigh.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You know how powerful conservative people do so much awful shit and do anything in their power to preserve their own fortune and priorities? And we watch them wondering how they could be so selfish and blind to the real problems in the world outside of their own self-interest? How they say the most baffling things that show they have no real life experience outside of their own narrow worldview? That's what it looks like when dudes like reggie come into feminist threads and try to make the story about himself and men.

 

[Sanky Panky]

You know how powerful conservative people do so much awful shit and do anything in their power to preserve their own fortune and priorities? And we watch them wondering how they could be so selfish and blind to the real problems in the world outside of their own self-interest? How they say the most baffling things that show they have no real life experience outside of their own narrow worldview? That's what it looks like when dudes like reggie come into feminist threads and try to make the story about himself and men.

This goes beyong people like reggie unfortunately. Feminism is misunderstood because media and the system itself shapes the perception of the movement. The message is so distorted that even women don't want to associate themselves with it, and even worse, young girls now learn that further objectifying yourself is some sort new power that women have achieved.

A great book on the subject is Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture . All of us should read it.

 

[JohnDoe]

That is exactly what it is about.

Men face many issues, too.
The expectation that they must be the bread winner, must be a "man", must be macho, must be the leader, etc. originates way back.

This culture was defined by men. Men were the domineering force of thought on how a society was to be run. They had their expectations for women and men.

Feminism is about addressing the culture that has been established (which men ultimately played the biggest role). Because not only does patriarchy harm women, it harms men, too.

This.

I don't get how people don't see that eliminating gender roles (which we hopefully can agree is a core aspect of feminism in general) would help with a lot, if not all, problems that men face. Not only women's problems.

 

[DirtyDeedsDoneDirtCheap]

Well, the most obnoxious exampled of both feminists and their reactionaries (god, the reactionaries) are all found on the internet, so what I've learned from it is that people that don't socialize don't know a damn thing about society.