CadetMahoney
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prectable wins for PS4 is not amazing, only expected.
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How much different will X1 and PS4 multiplats be visually?
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prectable wins for PS4 is not amazing, only expected.
badcrumble
Member
Some of the reactions will be pretty amazing.
It's going to be interesting.
I remember at the beginning of last gen (i.e., 360/PS3), everyone thought that one reason the PS3 would blow the 360 out of the water because of its Blu Ray drive. How could the 360 compete when it has a drive that can only hold ~6-7gb of data? So people were so excited because they thought that games on the PS3 would have super high res textures, HD cutscenes, and amazing audio. Then reality sunk in. Oops. The blu ray is so slow that it's just impossible to squeeze big textures through the system. In fact, lots of data had to be duplicated. None of this was known or talked about pre launch. So we had a HUGE difference with the storage device: ~25 gb vs ~7 gb. Yet it didn't make a difference with actual gameplay.
No doubt the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. My point is simply that raw numbers don't always tell the story. Certain perceived advantages could have drawbacks that aren't known.
The other thing people don't often think about is how things looks from the developer's perspective. The advantage of developing for two similar systems is that your customer base doubles but your costs stay the same or increase only slightly. The developer just can't say "oh, the PS4 is more powerful, let's crank up the FPS to 60" and be done with it. At that point they are optimizing two different games with different textures, effects, lighting, etc. So the costs escalate. The more powerful system may not be utilized to its fullest.
I remember at the beginning of last gen (i.e., 360/PS3), everyone thought that one reason the PS3 would blow the 360 out of the water because of its Blu Ray drive. How could the 360 compete when it has a drive that can only hold ~6-7gb of data? So people were so excited because they thought that games on the PS3 would have super high res textures, HD cutscenes, and amazing audio. Then reality sunk in. Oops. The blu ray is so slow that it's just impossible to squeeze big textures through the system. In fact, lots of data had to be duplicated. None of this was known or talked about pre launch. So we had a HUGE difference with the storage device: ~25 gb vs ~7 gb. Yet it didn't make a difference with actual gameplay.
No doubt the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. My point is simply that raw numbers don't always tell the story. Certain perceived advantages could have drawbacks that aren't known.
The other thing people don't often think about is how things looks from the developer's perspective. The advantage of developing for two similar systems is that your customer base doubles but your costs stay the same or increase only slightly. The developer just can't say "oh, the PS4 is more powerful, let's crank up the FPS to 60" and be done with it. At that point they are optimizing two different games with different textures, effects, lighting, etc. So the costs escalate. The more powerful system may not be utilized to its fullest.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
I don't expect much differences for mutually released games, but will for ports. Why? Cutting costs.
AstroNut325
Member
If this is not true... I expect blood in the streets.
Way too much emotional investment. Have fun people. That's what gaming is about.
PS4TW 
Note that 40% raw power on paper is only the GPU difference and really translates to about 15-20% framerate difference in real games when using the same CPU. Having said that, the CPU in Xbox One is more powerful than the PS4's CPU, specifically since it has a dedicated advanced sound processor and presumably a 10% higher clock, means that 40% difference is even less when looking at the system as a whole, and even less in actual games.
Xbox One and PS4 are competitive and have the same feature set of effects. Screen space subsurface scattering? Check, Depth of field with Brokeh? Check.... Tiled resources? Check.
Xbox One having a little less power means that on occasions they're going to have to dial back on AA and resolution a bit, but the overall feature set is what distinguishes current gen from the next, ie. Fight Night Round 3 played on an SDTV still looked incredibly more impressive than Fight Night for last gen despite running at 640 x 480 because all of the current gen (PS3/360) effects is what made it special.
Ok I've got a tech question. Reading about the differences in memory architecture I get the impression that while the ps4 setup is obviously simpler to deal with, as long as devs put in the work to optimise the use of the xbone's esram and its various customisations they should be able to achieve similar bandwidth. Is this more or less correct or do I have it wrong and ps4's gddr5 will actually significantly add to its performance advantage.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I think he is right.
Chobel
Member
Can't you read people?... I'll just post it again
It's going to be a bloodbath.
BradleyLove
Member
Thread delivers.
Dead Prince
Banned
unless there's a pc version ;P then DF will pretend neither systems exist.
I don't think there will be much difference when it comes to graphics. More likely, we will see difference in performance, with likely advantage for the ps4. I believe the ps4 will do what the 360 did at the time.It's going to be easier to develop for, and games will run better for it most of the time.
The ram and graphics card are better for the ps4, so that's definitely gonna help there.
The ram and graphics card are better for the ps4, so that's definitely gonna help there.
Jack Tretton said otherwise.
Only one way to decide this, Thunderdome. Penello vs. Tretton.
MrPresident
Banned
Here's a ~40% GPU performance differential in a modern and technologically advanced game (going from high to very high): Link
Expect the same relative difference.
Zombie James
Banned
Actually, a lot (maybe the vast majority, I don't know) of PS3 games have way better audio options like DTS and uncompressed LPCM, and higher bitrates for video cutscenes. Hell, just look at Diablo 3:
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It could also be the difference between a slideshow and a locked 30fps.
this
CadetMahoney
Member
To me better performing games = better graphics. Also the extra little bits like lighting also = better graphics. 360 had better lighting in some multi games this gen. So we know from history these differences are possible in multiplats so we can expect some of the following to be superior on PS4:
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Lighting, Textures, Particle Effects, Physics, DoF, Motion Blur, AA, AF, HBAO, Reflections, Animations, Shadows, Scale, Draw Distance, Loading Times, Uber-sampling, 3D, VR, Polygons, decals, hair rendering, subsurface scattering, etc etc etc etc etc.
"
Actually, a lot (maybe the vast majority, I don't know) of PS3 games have way better audio options like DTS and uncompressed LPCM, and higher bitrates for video cutscenes. Hell, just look at Diablo 3:
Diablo 3 is not a good example if you are looking at anything aside from support of 7.1 audio.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Yup.
At the bare minimum, I expect improved framerates and IQ - which is perfectly fine by me. For me, those are 2 most important things.
lol, I had not considered this, new face offs with PC winning and xb1 and PS4 being "about the same" sounds about right.
Why is there so much drama over the difference between 30 fps and 35 fps in multiplat games? Both systems are capable of identical effects, rendering methods, and gpu compute. XBO exclusives will be less technically impressive on the graphics side due to the weaker hardware. They may be able to pull ahead slightly with some cpu heavy game code in their exclusives, but I have no idea.
If people really cared about multiplat performance they would get a gaming PC.
If people really cared about multiplat performance they would get a gaming PC.
Except that for some dumbass reason Eurogamer always dials back the PC version when comparing it to console versions. Because reasons.
No one really cares about 30 vs. 35 fps, however for the same game under heavy graphical scenes 25 vs. 30 fps would be a fair bit more noticable.
Dragon1893
Member
Why don't we just wait and see?
Because one side expects 30 vs 60, and the other 30 vs 30.
Zombie James
Banned
I was talking about audio support with Diablo 3.
Jmanunknown
Member
Their is not that much drama but, considering that the ps4 is technically 40% more powerful and $100 cheaper I think you can get why it might ruffle some peoples feathers.
What did you expect him to say?
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Only one way to find out. Wait 'till they launch.
At LAUNCH, the difference will be minimal. Remember, up until February 21, almost every PS4 dev - including first party devs - thought the system would only have 4GB of GDDR5 and were making their games according to that limitation. We won't see the long reaching impact of the increase across multiplats until late 2014 at best.
By the end of the gen, every PS4 port will be the definitive edition compared to the XBO version, and there will be little argument about it from anybody.
By the end of the gen, every PS4 port will be the definitive edition compared to the XBO version, and there will be little argument about it from anybody.
level_e11even
Banned
I still find it quite amusing that people, especially the fanboys, are so in denial when they hear that there will be a difference down the line. Worst is how they try to not accept the truth even when the numbers don't lie.
The PS4 is a superior console. It just is. I could and definitely would be saying the same thing if the Xbox One had the hardware the PS4 has. It has nothing to do with favoritism. Personally, the fact that I come from the PC world, where raw numbers and benchmarks rule, there's little room for fanboyism. If you are a real hobbyist (PC-builder), then you look at the performance-to-price ratio. It has NOTHING to do with who manufactured what.
What will this mean, really? There won't be ANY difference at launch. Half of the these won't be properly utilized in year 1. Year 3 and on you will start to see the difference. The raw performance will be better utilized progressively throughout the life of the console.
And for the self-righteous fanboys that hide their hypocrisy: If it's "only about the games," then why do you care that the PS4 happens to have better hardware? It's just the way it is...
The PS4 is a superior console. It just is. I could and definitely would be saying the same thing if the Xbox One had the hardware the PS4 has. It has nothing to do with favoritism. Personally, the fact that I come from the PC world, where raw numbers and benchmarks rule, there's little room for fanboyism. If you are a real hobbyist (PC-builder), then you look at the performance-to-price ratio. It has NOTHING to do with who manufactured what.
What will this mean, really? There won't be ANY difference at launch. Half of the these won't be properly utilized in year 1. Year 3 and on you will start to see the difference. The raw performance will be better utilized progressively throughout the life of the console.
And for the self-righteous fanboys that hide their hypocrisy: If it's "only about the games," then why do you care that the PS4 happens to have better hardware? It's just the way it is...
I, Personally, don't think theres a need for PC games in the console face offs, The PC version is far too variable depending on your rig and obviously will range from worse than consoles to much superior to consoles, Personally i'd like to see PS4 vs. XB1 articles and AMD vs nVidia/Intel articles both flagship and Mid-end.
When I examine multiplats on 360 and ps3, I see that the 360 version usually performs better. Now, there are some ps3 games that look a bit better, but the performance is quite significantly better on the 360. Performance to me means: locked fps, less/no screen tearing, higher fps.
Things like lighting and textures can be a bit better or worse for all I care, and they aren't really the same as performance factors, which are far more important imo.
Just an example of a game where both system have shitty performance: I tried playing Dragon's dogma on the ps3 and it's almost unplayable. Game always drops to 25ish fps and it's incredibely annoying. Then there is the 360 version which has perfectly stable fps but godamn screen tearing, and lots of it.
Xplatformer
Member
Skyrim this generation?
Both could be around 30-35, but one could have bigger dips, which would be quite noticeable. One might not max out much higher and have the same effects, but one might be way more stable.
Also, some games might be available on consoles, but not PCs. Fewer than last gen surely, but still possible. Differences in user base might make the console versions more attractive in that scenario.
megabytecr
Member
At launch I would expect no difference and given timings and tools, I think a worst case for most titles is enhanced resolution and performance. I don't think Multiplats will take advantage of any particular HW at this point.
Later everyone expects to be a little bit towards PS4, but I think it will not be that noticeable, lets wait and see.
XB1 has dedicated servers for some games and the cloud, which could enhance some gameplay aspects, how much is BS we will have to play the games ourselves i guess.
PS4 has a slight edge on the spec front.
And Wii U... well it has all my love, lol. IMO Wii U is a lot more powerful than most think, but not that much to be closer to PS4/XB1, but if, BIG IF btw, devs care enough, early multiplats could run on the console.
Later everyone expects to be a little bit towards PS4, but I think it will not be that noticeable, lets wait and see.
XB1 has dedicated servers for some games and the cloud, which could enhance some gameplay aspects, how much is BS we will have to play the games ourselves i guess.
PS4 has a slight edge on the spec front.
And Wii U... well it has all my love, lol. IMO Wii U is a lot more powerful than most think, but not that much to be closer to PS4/XB1, but if, BIG IF btw, devs care enough, early multiplats could run on the console.
This is a lame argument. "Caring about the games" includes caring about the visuals, caring about how the engines run. More power equals games that run smoother, that look a little better. By definition, if you care about games, you'd want the system that has the most potential in its power, all else being equal.
How do you come to that conclusion with the available data on both systems?
If you're going to go into a semantics argument that both are conceptually able to run the same GPU compute code and it isn't about the performance results and/or utilization difference I'm going to be so disappointed. Don't let me down.
See I'm not so sure I buy into the "no difference at launch" argument...
1. We know the PS4 has more brute force power
2. We know the Xbone is the more complicated of the two architectures
3. What's a poor coder's best friend? Brute force power
If anything I think it's the Xbone that will take more time to get to grips with...I expect slightly crisper visuals...maybe a better AA solution...maybe slightly higher native res...maybe a little smoother frame rate for the PS4...and I expect that to continue throughout the generation...
1. We know the PS4 has more brute force power
2. We know the Xbone is the more complicated of the two architectures
3. What's a poor coder's best friend? Brute force power
If anything I think it's the Xbone that will take more time to get to grips with...I expect slightly crisper visuals...maybe a better AA solution...maybe slightly higher native res...maybe a little smoother frame rate for the PS4...and I expect that to continue throughout the generation...
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I think everyone agrees the PS4 will push more polygons, etc. The real question how meaningful those difference will be.
and the guy you responded to was talking better textures and better CGI....none of which are better because of blu-ray in the case of Diablo 3.
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