COMICS! |OT| September 2013 - Forever Evil (For A Month), IN 3D (where available)

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I just went and did my count for October and excluding annuals and Batman B&W, I'm at 25 books, including Forever Evil and its tie-in miniseries. They hurt me but they do that because they love, right? RIGHT?
 
Acid08 said:
Meh. A lot of those writers are telling their own stories elsewhere and that is more interesting. I'll pick Trillium over Green Arrow every time.
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Opinions. They're great.

You're wrong of course. Green Arrow is great.

Of All Trades said:
The easiest way to point at leadership failure is that Iron Man 3 had double the global sales of Man of Steel, because that's where the actual money is. Comic book sales are a distant... like, fourth after movies, merchandising, and TV. The value of DC and Marvel is their IP and one of the largest globally recognized characters should not be being outsold by a former B-tier character. There are lots of fingers to point as to why that happens but the health of the IP is contributed in part by the comics division.
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Apples and Oranges. Marvel has built a powerful movie brand that people are much more aware of. However, DC does much better in the animation and video game department. Blaming Didio for the "failure" of Man of Steel to outperform a Marvel property seems like it is jumping several links of a chain.
 
La Maquinon said:
I'm finishing up Gotham Central book 4 and it's so good NNNGGGGH!
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I've had the 4 Gotham Central books sat in my Amazon basket for so long, but I still haven't taken the plunge. They look like something I'd really enjoy but...the backlog...urgh.


Filthy Slug said:
Yo, honestly, Mieville did some wonderful work on Dial H and I can totally see parallels one can draw between his comic work and Morrison's.

I want a Dial H omnibus so bad.
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I really really enjoyed the first Dial H trade. I'm excited to get the second (and final...) trade to see where the story goes. So disappointed it got canned, but I hope he gets another opportunity to write a comic series. If an omnibus does appear somewhere down the line, I'll definitely double-dip and pick it up.
 
ElNarez said:
That Rich piece is fucking bullshit. Marvel are "saving comics" without pissing on creators at every possible turn. And the books aren't selling that well. The top shelf, the JL, the Batman, sure. But everything else is way the fuck down. It's to the point where DC didn't want Diamond numbers to reflect how shit their numbers are. People are already not buying DC. Didio needs to be ousted sooner rather than later, and saying the opposite is just making disingenuous clickbait.
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Oh, wow, you can see the difference in that new marketshare figure. DC's having to pump out far more titles than Marvel is in order to even stay in the same ballpark.

Apples and Oranges. Marvel has built a powerful movie brand that people are much more aware of. However, DC does much better in the animation and video game department. Blaming Didio for the "failure" of Man of Steel to outperform a Marvel property seems like it is jumping several links of a chain.
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Marvel slowly built that brand over the past 2 decades in the wake of their bankruptcy. DC's problems in many ways seem to be a corporate problem (where DC is viewed as an R&D engine and doesn't have to face real repercussions from bad decisions.)
 
GrandHarrier said:
Because there are good writers telling good stories.
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This. I'm down to drop a book when editorial truly screws the pooch on it (Batwing, for example), but I'm not so principled that I'm going to turn down good comics to make a statement.

Of All Trades said:
The easiest way to point at leadership failure is that Iron Man 3 had double the global sales of Man of Steel, because that's where the actual money is. Comic book sales are a distant... like, fourth after movies, merchandising, and TV. The value of DC and Marvel is their IP and one of the largest globally recognized characters should not be being outsold by a former B-tier character. There are lots of fingers to point as to why that happens but the health of the IP is contributed in part by the comics division.
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I mean, MoS's "failure" can't really be traced to the comic division. DC has done its job keeping the Superman IP visible and healthy. The movie team dropped the ball there.

In fact, by all accounts, the comics guys are barely allowed to touch the film stuff, despite playing key roles in all other divisions.
 
GrandHarrier said:
Apples and Oranges. Marvel has built a powerful movie brand that people are much more aware of. However, DC does much better in the animation and video game department. Blaming Didio for the "failure" of Man of Steel to outperform a Marvel property seems like it is jumping several links of a chain.
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Didio is part of DC leadership. It's not all Didio. But when you have Quesada on Colbert Report (for Civil War of all things) and Tim Gunn promoting his Iron Man issue on Daily Show there's a running theme that the comic side of the business at Marvel is well aware of their place as IP promoters and the DC side is not. Communication and messaging in general has always been extremely weak on DC's side, from the lack of recap pages to the Batwoman fiasco.
DC has done its job keeping the Superman IP visible and healthy.
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I disagree. If anything kept Superman visible it was Smallville.
 
I forgot to make my list for tomorrow.

Marvel Comics
Avengers #19
Captain America #11
Indestructible Hulk #13
X-Men #5

...Yeah, I'm probably not going tomorrow unless I hear Cap and/or X-Men are insanity to the max. EXTREME.
 
Of All Trades said:
Didio is part of DC leadership. It's not all Didio. But when you have Quesada on Colbert Report (for Civil War of all things) and Tim Gunn promoting his Iron Man issue on Daily Show there's a running theme that the comic side of the business at Marvel is well aware of their place as IP promoters and the DC side is not. Communication and messaging in general has always been extremely weak on DC's side, from the lack of recap pages to the Batwoman fiasco.
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Marvel is WWE. DC is WCW. DC's problem is that if they make bad decisions, it doesn't matter, because they don't have to actually grow their brand/sales/fight for survival.

It's the part of the Disney sale I worry about - clearly Marvel's in good hands now as far as "not dying ever" goes, but I worry about them losing what they've built through attrition over the years.
 
I've been meaning to ask what happened to "The Take Out Bandit" and "Satch"? They both used to post a lot in these threads.
 
Dram said:
I've been meaning to ask what happened to "The Take Out Bandit" and "Satch"? They both used to post a lot in these threads.
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TTOB went on a vision quest and self-imposed ban/exile to become a chomix superstar.

Edit: A quick search seems to suggest Satch got a semi-lengthy but temp ban. She was also only an occasional poster, at least recently.
 
Dram said:
I've been meaning to ask what happened to "The Take Out Bandit" and "Satch"? They both used to post a lot in these threads.
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TToB went off to train and become the Legendary Super Comics Superstar. Satch got banned for a while after keeping it too real and going all "Amazons Attack" on some poor sap in a race thread.
 
ReiGun said:
TToB went off to train and become the Legendary Super Comics Superstar. Satch got banned for a while after keeping it too real and going all "Amazons Attack" on some poor sap in a race thread.
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TTOB: I know you'll read this some day. When you are a comics superstar I want you to sign those Saga #1-5 you sold me. I'll use them to pay for my children's college.
 
GrandHarrier said:
TTOB: I know you'll read this some day. When you are a comics superstar I want you to sign those Saga #1-5 you sold me. I'll use them to pay for my children's college.
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You were the one who bought those? Damn that's lucky. Rafa, sell me some stuff and sign that shit "For Alex from new Vertigo head Rafa Liefeld"
 
I'm so glad that Rafael Albuquerque is still working his magic even with AmVamp on hiatus.

ANMAN_Cv26.jpg
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I love it.

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Is anyone reading Red Lanterns? From the interviews I've read, Charles Soule seems like a pretty cool guy and his run on RL sounds interesting. I'll probably skip everything from before him (Ed Benes...) but I reckon I'll pick up Soule's trades when they're released.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I actually printed out a bunch of his posts and taped them around my desk for when I work on stuff.
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That is fantastic.

Acid08 said:
You were the one who bought those? Damn that's lucky. Rafa, sell me some stuff and sign that shit "For Alex from new Vertigo head Rafa Liefeld"
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It's a shame Rafa and TTOB never collaborated, they could have ascended to comic superstardom together.
 
kirblar said:
Marvel is WWE. DC is WCW. DC's problem is that if they make bad decisions, it doesn't matter, because they don't have to actually grow their brand/sales/fight for survival.

It's the part of the Disney sale I worry about - clearly Marvel's in good hands now as far as "not dying ever" goes, but I worry about them losing what they've built through attrition over the years.
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I don't really follow wrestling, but didn't WCW's continued struggles lead to WWE buying that property outright in 2001?
 
Acid08 said:
You were the one who bought those? Damn that's lucky. Rafa, sell me some stuff and sign that shit "For Alex from new Vertigo head Rafa Liefeld"
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Yeah. Dude was super chill about it. Smooth as butter. That basically got me onto Saga and I, obviously, still pull it (and enjoy it for the most part) today.

Eldren said:
Is anyone reading Red Lanterns? From the interviews I've read, Charles Soule seems like a pretty cool guy and his run on RL sounds interesting. I'll probably skip everything from before him (Ed Benes...) but I reckon I'll pick up Soule's trades when they're released.
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Incoming biased opinion; Red Lantern's is better now than it ever has been. I enjoyed the previous run but sort of ironically. I like the concept of the RLs, if not always the execution.
 
Manmademan said:
I don't really follow wrestling, but didn't WCW's continued struggles lead to WWE buying that property outright in 2001?
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Indeed they did, but DC is nowhere near late-era WCW for stupidity. They're about even in terms of treating talent badly.

Arguably they have a similar problem in that management appears to be out of touch with what customers want, but they don't care because ratings/sales are not as bad as they were before they embarked on the direction they intend to ride out to the bitter end (WCW: the nWo, DC: The New 52).
 
TetraxShards said:
Indeed they did, but DC is nowhere near late-era WCW for stupidity. They're about even in terms of treating talent badly.

Arguably they have a similar problem in that management appears to be out of touch with what customers want, but they don't care because ratings/sales are not as bad as they were before they embarked on the direction they intend to ride out to the bitter end (WCW: the nWo, DC: The New 52).
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probably true. in terms of IP, DC isn't really that far behind marvel. Superman and Batman as film properties are still VERY much bankable. There is still a wealth of IP they can easily leverage as marvel has done, the only issue is strategy.
 
Veelk said:
Out of curiosity, has Didio always been this incompetent/hated? Or has something just recently changed?
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No, Didio is basically like this where he goes.

Many many years ago he was the guy who cancelled Reboot on ABC, he was also the guy who told the new writers for the then upcoming Beast Machines cartoon to not watch or bother with anything that came before. Because continuity was too confusing for people. You can imagine the result since it was a direct follow up to Beast Wars. The writers and show runners took major heat for that show until years later when the truth came out.

When Didio finally made his way to DC things didn't seem so bad at first but eventually over time things started to happen, even going back to when they were doing comics like 52 and Countdown. He begun to take control more and started to alienate people, Mark Waid was one of the first major causalities of this. They even brought Jim Shooter onto the Legion book Waid was then doing and quickly cut Shooter off at the knee's repeatedly, especially when Johns brought back the previous Legion.

Little stories started coming out more and more often, people would get angry or upset, especially over treatment of characters like Cassandra Cain. For awhile there was a report that Didio was going to be fired for sales not being so great as they should be and a lot of people were calling for him to be fired. He even went to one con with a shirt that said Fire Didio! That didn't happen.

Now you got to remember, this was some years back. Before things changed with the new DC reboot and everything and for awhile a lot of people thought he was going to be replaced but that quickly changed. Despite all the issues going on direct blame on him kind of died down somewhat, especially as DC managed to outdo Marvel for the first time in decades. People still weren't exactly happy but DC appeared to be doing good despite all the issues and complaints.

Plus despite all the venom being slung about some times you got to remember, the internet is a vocal place, it doesn't always represent what is going on. And some times yes people do take any little thing and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

But DC has done a lot and so has Didio that have constantly upset people in various ways, there are so many things. DC has been shedding people like crazy, the horror stories have piled up. Didio seems to be staying true to who he has always been, a person who tells people what to do but really can not communicate very well. He is simply incapable of it no matter his best intentions and when everything is going as it is....well that only adds fuel to the fire.
 
Manmademan said:
I don't really follow wrestling, but didn't WCW's continued struggles lead to WWE buying that property outright in 2001?
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If I remember correctly- I believe Time Warner / Turner simply wanted to exit the marketplace at that point as they were rebranding their TNT/TBS stations. The brand was salvageable, but it had been so badly mismanaged that they just didn't want to deal with it anymore.
probably true. in terms of IP, DC isn't really that far behind marvel. Superman and Batman as film properties are still VERY much bankable. There is still a wealth of IP they can easily leverage as marvel has done, the only issue is strategy.
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DC's "Paragon" approach to their heroes makes them a much rougher sell once you get past the Big 2. (and even Superman's a problematic character.)
 
Eh, never mind the previous bullshit I typed here. Looking forward to Locke and Key.
 
kirblar said:
DC's "Paragon" approach to their heroes makes them a much rougher sell once you get past the Big 2. (and even Superman's a problematic character.)
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I'm not really sure I'm on board with that. the broader audience hasn't had any exposure to the justice league at all outside of a couple million young adults watching the cartoon series.

The vast majority of the public know nothing about DC outside of superman, batman, green lantern (though not in a good way), the flash (sorta) and green arrow- and that last one is VERY recent.

Zatanna, hawkman, martian manhunter, red tornado, the marvels, the question, Dr Fate, firestorm, the atom, phantom stranger, the ray, captain atom etc etc might as well be blank slates- and it's not like character reinterpretation and rebranding doesn't happen.

back in the 90s, cyclops and captain america were both boyscouts. That hasn't been true for quite some time now, and both characters are better for it.
 
I've been finishing runs lately, Batman Inc, Angel and Faith #25 was the last issue, and now Dial H #15. I think the weirdness overshadowed a solid story underneath and it wasn't told in a way that i found entertaining. Issue #13 was the highlight of the series for me with Open Door Man interacting with another world.
 
sillymonkey321 said:
I've been finishing runs lately, Batman Inc, Angel and Faith #25 was the last issue, and now Dial H #15. I think the weirdness overshadowed a solid story underneath and it wasn't told in a way that i found entertaining. Issue #13 was the highlight of the series for me with Open Door Man interacting with another world.
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Yo, hows the dcbs situation?
 
BuddyJoeHooker said:
Yo, hows the dcbs situation?
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It got worked out in....interesting ways. Fedex couldn't get a hold of the driver and told me to ask dcbs to file a claim but on day 4 of the dcbs crisis i got a call asking for fed ex and i eventually put it together that my phone number was on the package and they probably thought that was the fed ex number, and sure enough my package was delivered to another building in my apartment complex with a slightly different number.

So i got my package in the end :O I hope fedex is a little more careful next time.
 
GrandHarrier said:
Incoming biased opinion; Red Lantern's is better now than it ever has been. I enjoyed the previous run but sort of ironically. I like the concept of the RLs, if not always the execution.
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Cool, that's good enough for me. I plan on picking up all the New 52 trades for the other three main GL series (not so sure on Larfleeze yet), but I was a little iffy on Red Lanterns. Glad to know it's coming along nicely.

REDL_Cv26.jpg
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Looks good!

Wait, isn't Soule writing Thunderbolts over at Marvel as well? And from what I've heard he's managed to turn it around and make it worth reading, after Daniel Way's run. Damn, get that money, son.
 
My hatred for Didio started around Identity Crisis and Countdown to Infinite Crisis. Not only did they brutally kill off Sue Dibny and mess up Elongated Man as a charecter. They also killed Blue Beetle (at the hands of Maxwell Lord).

When people questioned him he made up some bs excuse that Blue Beetle was an obscure charecter that nobody knew about and that his death made him become popular he added "Who the hell cared about Blue Beetle last year?" which was an EXTREMELY dumb comment because A)Blue Beetle has been a fairy well known charecter in the DCU going as far back as the 80s JLI series if not earlier and had a fan base and B) "Last year" he was in one of DC"s best selling miniseries:

250px-FormerlyKnownAsJLTPCVR.jpg


That was when I knew that didio was an idiot who had some weird agenda to change the DCU to make it more like the 60s/70s and super friends.
 
sillymonkey321 said:
It got worked out in....interesting ways. Fedex couldn't get a hold of the driver and told me to ask dcbs to file a claim but on day 4 of the dcbs crisis i got a call asking for fed ex and i eventually put it together that my phone number was on the package and they probably thought that was the fed ex number, and sure enough my package was delivered to another building in my apartment complex with a slightly different number.

So i got my package in the end :O I hope fedex is a little more careful next time.
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Good to know it was only a small mistake. Very nice of a person to make a call instead of keeping the contents.
 
The "paragon" approach is the realistic approach which DC clings to. When majority of DC's heroes are really further out than Marvel's. They have repeatedly said they don't know if they can do a WW movie. That is the issue.
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WW can't even sell a comic book, let alone a movie. People complain about "no female leads" but the simple problem is that the female-led books don't sell very well compared to the male-led ones. (The whole male power fantasy/escapism comes into play.)
 
Anticitizen One said:
My hatred for Didio started around Identity Crisis and Countdown to Infinite Crisis. Not only did they brutally kill off Sue Dibny and mess up Elongated Man as a charecter. They also killed Blue Beetle (at the hands of Maxwell Lord).

When people questioned him he made up some bs excuse that Blue Beetle was an obscure charecter that nobody knew about and that his death made him become popular he added "Who the hell cared about Blue Beetle last year?" which was an EXTREMELY dumb comment because A)Blue Beetle has been a fairy well known charecter in the DCU going as far back as the 80s JLI series if not earlier and had a fan base and B) "Last year" he was in one of DC"s best selling miniseries:
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I'd actually argue that, while it did suck for him to die, Blue Beetles death at the hands of Maxwell Lord was a pretty powerful moment and did, in fact, elevate him to a level of recognition that he didn't have before, whilst also creating a defining moment in JLI history.

That being said, it has been far too long since he was around and he should be brought back.
 
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