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[Onion_Relish]

It is my opinion that profiling gets inflated further when the person is a Black male, based on the societal perspective on Black men.

I do not believe based on the evidence at hand that prejudicial profiling was the cause of the victims death. As i elaborated before, actions speak louder than words and based on what a reasonable person might expect of someones behaviour when approaching a police officer, the actions taken by the victim in a vacuum would still have led to a similar outcome. I wouldn't disagree that Black men get racially profiled, it is still one of the most prevalent intrusions into the psyche of modern society, but it has little to do with the situation at hand.

Police and the woman assumed this young man was a threat from the the get-go.

Once again, I would not disagree with this assertation. I would submit that a reasonable person when hearing a knock on their door in the wee hours of the morning should have reason to be concerned. Although a knock on the door is hardly as threatening as smashing in a window with a baseball bat, it stands to reason that one might come to the conclusion that "I could be dealing with a possible home invader" compared to the conclusion "Someone has crashed their car and is knocking on my door for help"; The latter situation being so rare that even the most charitable person would be hard pressed to come up with it at 2:30am in the morning.

The fact of the matter is that both the police and the woman involved were correct to think that the victim had the potential to be a threat.However, Had the victim conducting himself more reasonably, this potential would have most likely been allayed by the rationale of both the victim and the police officer on scene.

 

[Carnby]

He was tazed and he kept running at the officer. I'm not surprised that he was shot. Regardless, it's tragic.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Nah he should of planted a knife in the left hand. Way easier.

True, this cop will probably get placed in a "threat and assessment class" and that'll be the end of that.

 

[Big Baybee]

I do not believe based on the evidence at hand that prejudicial profiling was the cause of the victims death. As i elaborated before, actions speak louder than words and based on what a reasonable person might expect of someones behaviour when approaching a police officer, the actions taken by the victim in a vacuum would still have led to a similar outcome. I wouldn't disagree that Black men get racially profiled, it is still one of the most prevalent intrusions into the psyche of modern society, but it has little to do with the situation at hand.



Once again, I would not disagree with this assertation. I would submit that a reasonable person when hearing a knock on their door in the wee hours of the morning should have reason to be concerned. Although a knock on the door is hardly as threatening as smashing in a window with a baseball bat, it stands to reason that one might come to the conclusion that "I could be dealing with a possible home invader" compared to the conclusion "Someone has crashed their car and is knocking on my door for help"; The latter situation being so rare that even the most charitable person would be hard pressed to come up with it at 2:30am in the morning.

The fact of the matter is that both the police and the woman involved were correct to think that the victim had the potential to be a threat.However, Had the victim conducting himself more reasonably, this potential would have most likely been allayed by the rationale of both the victim and the police officer on scene.

So everyone is right instead of the innocent guy wrongly murdered. Gotcha.

 

[JDSN]

So...you weren't sure why people were treating him like a "dangerous criminal", you saw that he was Black and now "it makes sense now"?

Sounds you are saying that because he was Black, it makes sense that they thought he was a "dangerous criminal"?

What are you saying exactly?

I think he might be talking about other people involved profiling him, I doubt he is talking about himself.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I do not believe based on the evidence at hand that prejudicial profiling was the cause of the victims death. As i elaborated before, actions speak louder than words and based on what a reasonable person might expect of someones behaviour when approaching a police officer, the actions taken by the victim in a vacuum would still have led to a similar outcome. I wouldn't disagree that Black men get racially profiled, it is still one of the most prevalent intrusions into the psyche of modern society, but it has little to do with the situation at hand.

Ok.

Once again, I would not disagree with this assertation. I would submit that a reasonable person when hearing a knock on their door in the wee hours of the morning should have reason to be concerned. Although a knock on the door is hardly as threatening as smashing in a window with a baseball bat, it stands to reason that one might come to the conclusion that "I could be dealing with a possible home invader" compared to the conclusion "Someone has crashed their car and is knocking on my door for help"; The latter situation being so rare that even the most charitable person would be hard pressed to come up with it at 2:30am in the morning.

The fact of the matter is that both the police and the woman involved were correct to think that the victim had the potential to be a threat.However, Had the victim conducting himself more reasonably, this potential would have most likely been allayed by the rationale of both the victim and the police officer on scene.

wat

I have never heard of someone that is planning to break into a house knock on the front door, have the occupant open the door and then close it on them.

Worst home invader, ever.

 

[hipbabboom]

It seems more and more like if the cops are called on reports of a suspicious person in the neighborhood, a black man is going to be shot. I'd love to see what the mayor of New York city would with data like that.

 

[The Cowboy]

He was tazed and he kept running at the officer. I'm not surprised that he was shot. Regardless, it's tragic.

But think about it, the range on police issued taser is a maximum of 35 feet (10.6 meters), that means if they tasered him at the maximum range of 35 feet they made a judgement that he continued to run at from that point and then shot him dead.

So they made a judgement that he continued to run at them in the space of a second or 2 (even running at a very slow speed you'd cover 10.6 meters in a few seconds). So considering the range involved its very likely the cop had his main gun at the ready and shot him dead pretty much instantly after the taser was fired.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Being black, the sad thing is that I know better than to run at a police officer. For any reason.

It doesn't matter what you're wearing, what you're saying, or what your reason is, the assumption is often (especially if you're tall and/or have an athletic build) that you're high, armed, dangerous, capable of throttling a man with your bare hands, and willing to kill authorities to get away with whatever you were doing.

This kid was probably bleeding internally, confused, lost, concussed, scared...and his circumstantial forgetfulness of assumed social station cost him his life. Hell, he could have bitten his tongue or punctured a lung during the accident, preventing him from explaining his situation properly from a distance.

 

[akira28]

I have never heard of someone that is planning to break into a house knock on the front door, have the occupant open the door and then close it on them.

Worst home invader, ever.

She barely defeated him, but she was quick with that door and saved her own life. We should be commending her.

 

[someday]

So everyone is right instead of the innocent guy wrongly murdered. Gotcha.

Yep, funny how that works.

 

[MisterNegative]

Help someone is breaking into my house. I opened the door, was able close it again and now he's just standing there.

He's not kicking down the door or trying to smash through the windows but.... He's still trying to break in !!

 

[Devolution]

I rarely fucking believe the narrative provided by the person who shot someone dead.

 

[Onion_Relish]

So everyone is right instead of the innocent guy wrongly murdered. Gotcha.

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons. This is why the police officer is not being charged with second or third degree murder, but rather manslaughter.

If it isn't already perfectly clear that I think this whole incident is a damn shame, I can explicitly put it on the record right here and right now. However, as I have pointed out, It is hard to see it ending any other way given the circumstances and actions taken by all parties involved

Ok.

I have never heard of someone that is planning to break into a house knock on the front door, have the occupant open the door and then close it on them.

Worst home invader, ever.

For the final time I will point out that we must view this situation through the lens of what a reasonable person might infer given the circumstances involved. Even though knocking on the door in the middle of the night is not the normal way a home invasion proceeds, it stands to reason that knocking on the door for a home invader would serve two purposes:
1: If someone answers, you can physically assault them and try to make your way inside, this conveniently avoids having to deal with alarms or other preventative measures
or
2: If no one answers: They are either away or sleeping, which would embolden the home invader to then proceed with his crime.

No matter the case, it stands to reason that since home invasions occur much more frequently than people crashing their cars in the middle of the night and then knocking on a strangers door and then asking for help, both the police and the woman were correct in their inference that a possible B&E is about to take place. It is not on us to judge how well or how poorly someone conducts such actions, after all, the perpetrator of a B&E could have a change of heart if he saw a little old lady open the door who was blind and on attached to a breathing apparatus (an extreme example surely but elaborative for my point).

Our burden of proof is whether or not we believe based on the victims actions that a normal person would come to the conclusion that a B&E was about to happen before they would come to the conclusion that someone was in need serious medical attention. The issue you raise is that the conclusion arrived at by the woman was exacerbated by the ethnicity of the victim, which may well be true. But I would still maintain the same circumstances and outcomes regardless of ethnicity at this point in time based on the actions taken by the victim

 

[Mazdaspeed]

The OP story clearly calls it out. See bolded:



She heard a knock, opened the door, saw it wasn't her husband, closed the door.

Then called 911 to report a B&E.

I was going to make an argument here about hearing the 911 call to see what was actually stated but that's doesn't matter for my standpoint.

Not to restate my view too many times but I feel the blame belongs to the person who actually pulled the trigger to shoot an unarmed person, not the person who requested assistance-even if the caller horribly misjudged the situation. Whether the police are called for a suspicious person or for breaking and entering they still shouldn't be shooting people without cause.

 

[akira28]

OnionRelish's first mistake is assuming that the cops or the women are reasonable. But I guess maybe they get that privilege.

Meanwhile the dead guy was shot because he didn't immediately lie on the ground as soon as he saw flashing lights. He was charging the cops like a crazed bull elephant. Was it dark? Did they even make a confirmed tazer hit? Or did they just panic and shoot at the black guy moving towards them?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons. This is why the police officer is not being charged with second or third degree murder, but rather manslaughter.

This is the part where I stop communicating with you.

He "was murdered for the right reasons."

Holy fucking shit.

I was going to make an argument here about hearing the 911 call to see what was actually stated but that's doesn't matter for my standpoint.

Not to restate my view too many times but I feel the blame belongs to the person who actually pulled the trigger to shoot an unarmed person, not the person who requested assistance-even if the caller horribly misjudged the situation. Whether the police are called for a suspicious person or for breaking and entering they still shouldn't be shooting people without cause.

EDIT: The problem with this is, when you report it as a B&E, that puts the police into a more defensive mindset. They will assume based on that the suspect could be armed and dangerous, versus saying someone mysterious was knocking at my door and then I closed it on them.

Big difference in response by the authorities and she changed that response by claiming it was a B&E.

And to your point about the details of the 911 call, I was paraphrasing.

 

[Big Baybee]

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons.

This. This is something.

 

[Moral Panic]

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons.

Inappropriate Comment.

 

[EscoBlades]

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons.

This....has to be a joke. Please.

 

[Onion_Relish]

It is clear to me by the reactions just evinced here that people are approaching this a bit too emotionally and not putting their emotions aside to look at the objective facts of the circumstances involved.

Do not think for a second that I am happy or satisfied about this killing. There is a reason why I constantly refer to the victim as such, a victim. But all of what I have pointed out before is logically reasoned and how a court of law would approach the situation.

It is clear that no further progressive discourse will come as a result of my postings or the postings of another member in this thread. With that I will take my leave and allow you your indignation. I do not apologize for offending any sensibilities, nor do i apologize for the actions of the three people involved in this case. It is a damn shame to be sure that this happened in the first place, but don't let your emotions get the better of you. Please keep this in mind for future discussions.

 

[akira28]

Those cops were pretty objective O_R. And you are too.

All these trained, objective minds...

 

[Big Baybee]

It's ok guys, he's just a robot.

 

[LiK]

Good

 

[akira28]

It's ok guys, he's just a robot.

He's 'Justice' minded. He thinks in context of the court of law.

You can take almost any set of circumstances, create a narrative and then try to rationalize them logically. Especially when we're playing mindreader with a set of shady facts with no witnesses in the dark at 2 in the morning.

So apparently this guy charges the police after getting shot with a tazer. Did they even shoot him with a tazer? Did they give him an order to halt or did he just run towards them for help and get lit up? But it's ok. The officers had a legitimate reason to fear for their lives because they were being chased by the fucking Black Terminator. They barely escaped with their lives. He was probably super strong and high on PCP and apparently a home invader about to kill some poor woman. This was unavoidable, and they had every reason to shoot him.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

It is clear that no further progressive discourse will come as a result of my postings or the postings of another member in this thread. With that I will take my leave and allow you your indignation. I do not apologize for offending any sensibilities, nor do i apologize for the actions of the three people involved in this case. It is a damn shame to be sure that this happened in the first place, but don't let your emotions get the better of you. Please keep this in mind for future discussions.

You can have your emotions in check and still be deluded.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

At least no dogs were killed this time.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

He's 'Justice' minded. He thinks in context of the court of law.

You can take almost any set of circumstances, create a narrative and then try to rationalize them logically. Especially when we're playing mindreader with a set of shady facts with no witnesses in the dark at 2 in the morning.

So apparently this guy charges the police after getting shot with a tazer. Did they even shoot him with a tazer? Did they give him an order to halt or did he just run towards them for help and get lit up? But it's ok. The officers had a legitimate reason to fear for their lives because they were being chased by the fucking Black Terminator. They barely escaped with their lives. He was probably super strong and high on PCP and apparently a home invader about to kill some poor woman. This was unavoidable, and they had every reason to shoot him.

For the right reasons, of course.

 

[ChubbyHuggs]

Well you see when we knock on doors, we have a +80 str and the door actually breaks...hence B&E.

The cop messed up, he should have sprinkled some crack on the victim.

"I don't wanna leave no mysteries."

 

[DY_nasty]

Murdered for the right reasons

like knocking on someone's door for help after a car accident

Good stuff in this thread.

 

[TheOMan]

He was tazed and he kept running at the officer. I'm not surprised that he was shot. Regardless, it's tragic.

The cops say he was tazed, but it doesn't add up. Unfortunately, we can only go on what they say and not what actually happened.

 

[Kettch]

At least he didn't have a wife/girlfriend/kids trapped and dying in the crashed car I suppose. :/

 

[SpectreFire]

There seems like a hilarious amount of holes missing from this story.

1) What happened before they shot him with a taser? Did they tell him to stop? Identify himself? They obviously weren't intending to shoot him if they drew out a taser first.

2) How did he shrug off a taser? Did it not hit him properly? Was he pumped up on adrenlaline from the crash? Was he pumped up on drugs (hence the crash)?

Honestly, if everything played out by the book, they ordered him to stop, then tased him, and he continued barreling towards him, I don't see what they could've done except shoot him. Guy looks like a big football player, under the assumptions they were operating under, I don't play them for not wanting to get into a melee with him.

Seems to me like the woman who called 9/11 was more to blame than the cops. They had to operate under her piss-poor judgement and call.

 

[Limit]

I rarely fucking believe the narrative provided by the person who shot someone dead.

Yup. I am not buying what this cop is selling. My inventory is already full, of doubt.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

This part confuses me.

Ferrell ran toward the officers and was hit with a Taser. Ferrell continued to run toward police when Officer Randall Kerrick fired his weapon, hitting Ferrell several times.

Why was he running towards the officers without screaming "I need help!" assuming he didn't? Why did he continue running at them after he was hit by the Taser?

Anyways, good to hear the officer is getting severely punished if he's to blame, but again that part of the article strikes me a bit odd.

There could be more to this story than what's written here.

 

[akira28]

Seems to me like the woman who called 9/11 was more to blame than the cops. They had to operate under her piss-poor judgement and call.

Which shouldn't have been the case. Very poor assessment of the situation, with an unexpected reaction, and now a person is dead. This isn't the way 'procedure' should work. Assuming they followed procedure.

 

[Devolution]

This part confuses me.


Why was he running towards the officers without screaming "I need help!" assuming he didn't? Why did he continue running at them after he was hit by the Taser?

Anyways, good to hear the officer is getting severely punished if he's to blame, but again that part of the article strikes me a bit odd.

It's not confusing if you realize the cops are trying to twist the narrative to make it look like they were threatened rather than they're fucking idiots.

 

[J.ceaz]

"He's coming right for us!!!"

Bullshit.

 

[Slayven]

At least no dogs were killed this time.

Sadly in America dogs rank a bit above black males on the sympathy scale.

 

[Terbinator]

i half expected the OP to start with "psych! He actually got a medal for it"

i guess it's good that they're charging the cop, but I'd be extremely surprised if anything more than paid vacation came of it.

It always baffles me how fucking paranoid policemen in the US are. Are they actually trained to shoot first, ask later?

Gotta' stand that ground.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It's not confusing if you realize the cops are trying to twist the narrative to make it look like they were threatened rather than they're fucking idiots.

Yeah it sounds like a cover up story to be sure but that is just speculation.

None of us were there.

I find it highly unlikely that an injured guy kept charging at the cops like Rhino from Spider-man, after getting hit with "several tazers" as the police claim.

What a horrible way to spend your final moments--hurt and confused,innocent, no one will help you, and everyone blames you for your own death.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

It's not confusing if you realize the cops are trying to twist the narrative to make it look like they were threatened rather than they're fucking idiots.

Yeah, reading the full article on the website that wasn't posted in the OP it looks that way.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Rodney Monroe said the accident was serious and Ferrell would have been forced to climb out of the back window of the vehicle. He apparently walked to the nearest house and banged on the door.

Monroe told a news conference that he didn't think Ferrell was trying to rob the woman.

"I don't believe threats were made," the chief said.

Monroe also said he had spoken with Kerrick.

"He is pretty shook up," the chief said. "He's devastated."

Kerrick has been with Charlotte-Mecklenburg police since April 2011.

Monroe said at a news conference that Kerrick was in custody. Police say he was charged with voluntary manslaughter after an investigation found that the shooting was excessive.

 

[J-Rzez]

They used proper scale of force, using less lethal to lethal.
Just because you chose to be an officer it doesn't mean you chose to forfeit your life, you choose to accept that you put your life in possible danger for others.
Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Unfortunate accident, but if recounts are correct then I understand why the officer reacted the way they did.

Did anyone mention "why didn't they kneecap him yo" yet?

 

[akira28]

If citizens lives were a valuable thing, they wouldn't have treated this guy like a malfunctioning robot. But no, criminals and possible criminals, we're glad to be rid of them. He came at them and so they had to kill him.

Lethal defensive stance. Defend your position. And people wonder why we fear the police.

 

[someday]

They used proper scale of force, using less lethal to lethal.
Just because you chose to be an officer it doesn't mean you chose to forfeit your life, you choose to accept that you put your life in possible danger for others.
Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Unfortunate accident, but if recounts are correct then I understand why the officer reacted the way they did.

Did anyone mention "why didn't they kneecap him yo" yet?

Read the post right above yours or the article linked in the OP. Even the police department says he used excessive force. Jesus people.

 

[linsivvi]

I would contend, however heartless it may seem, that the victim, while innocent, was actually murdered for the right reasons.

WTF?

It is clear that no further progressive discourse will come as a result of my postings

Yep. You got that right at least.

 

[linsivvi]

They used proper scale of force, using less lethal to lethal.
Just because you chose to be an officer it doesn't mean you chose to forfeit your life, you choose to accept that you put your life in possible danger for others.
Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Unfortunate accident, but if recounts are correct then I understand why the officer reacted the way they did.

Did anyone mention "why didn't they kneecap him yo" yet?

Yeah if you punch a man and he doesn't react, you should shoot him to death.

The victim was fucking unarmed, get a clue.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Aren't police officers thought non lethal ways, besides tasers, to neutralize targets that are charging at them? I wouldn't consider the circumstances the police officers where in to be life threatening.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Every single thing the victim did was inviting the cop to assess him the way he did.
Running towards a cop at night? Check
Not stopping when a cop aims a taser at you? Check
not stopping when a cop hits you with said taser? Check
Proceeding to CONTINUE RUNNING after these things have happened? Check

A taser doesn't work by pain compliance, but by disrupting your nervous system so you can't control your movements.

It's basically shorting out the electric signals that your brain sends to the rest of your body, which control your voluntary (and involuntary) functions.

It's physically impossible for someone that is running to stop moving after being tased. Their momentum will carry them, and it'll be 10-15 seconds before they can move voluntarily after being tased.


Edit:

Well, they either drop like a rock or some of the signals get through and they stumble like jelly towards the ground
either way, they're not in full control of their movements at that point. So don't be criticizing someone because of the way they do or don't move while their nervous system is being shorted out.

 

[Zoe]

I think this is more the fault of the lady who called the police than the police. They're all equally as guilty, but fuck man. Breaking and entering because someone is knocking on your door? How did we even get to this point?

Do we know exactly what the woman said to 911? It's the operator who interprets what's going on and relays the codes to the police.