Yeah. As much as some people are grousing about how there's nothing to do, most of the user-base is truly up shit creek because there's almost nothing they can do. They get to 50 and they're barely fit to run Castrum, let alone face all the tonberries in Wanderer's Palace.
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT2| Use a security token. Seriously.
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Yeah. As much as some people are grousing about how there's nothing to do, most of the user-base is truly up shit creek because there's almost nothing they can do. They get to 50 and they're barely fit to run Castrum, let alone face all the tonberries in Wanderer's Palace.
Unknown Soldier
Member
None of this means anything because right now PLD > WAR for single-target main-tanking. The people who have made it to Bahamut's Coil all report that PLD is much better than WAR, mainly because right now PLD's mitigation skills are better than WAR's ability to soak damage and self-heal and receive heals.
WAR is the class which needs adjusting. PLD is fine the way it is, considering that PLD with iLvl 70 gear are going into the Coil and tanking content which is supposed to be for people with iLvl 90 gear.
Teletraan1
Banned
The dungeons that launched with Mists were 6 new dungeons and 3 reworked older dungeons and 1 raid. I would expect half of the number of dungeons next time or none since they seem to be focusing on LFR rather than dungeons. They also shifted focus towards dailies for this expansion.
I have a feeling CT was supposed to be the easier LFR type raid while there should have been around 3 viable dungeons, + Primals and they have mentioned dailies for this game. Considering the quick turnaround with getting this game back from the brink I think we will see most of this in 2.1 which would be pretty much on par with what Mists launched with. Sadly this games problem is that it isn't in at launch and that sucks but like i said in my last post it is obvious they ran out of time to anyone who played the content and can see what is coming. 2.1 is a clear indication of what they had planned for launch. Will people wait, probably not.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Upper La Noscea is sure great for that mid 20's area for FATE's. Took care of the two boss FATE fights that spawn near the camp before maintenance...solo UGH. At least another player was kind enough to help me with the giant crab enemy...after I attacked it first and had the hate nearly all of the fight. Why do people do that? I had the same issue with Simurg nearby. Yea, let's wait until the extra squishy class (Arcanist) grabs all the hate first!
That aside, the suggestion to head for Cortheas was great, I'm getting close to 10k exp on FATE fights and that's solo. Also happened to notice a few sidequests that opened up so I just took care of those all at once.
That aside, the suggestion to head for Cortheas was great, I'm getting close to 10k exp on FATE fights and that's solo. Also happened to notice a few sidequests that opened up so I just took care of those all at once.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I doubt anyone cares, and most of these points have been re-iterated ad-nauseum in the official forums Tank Roles subforum, but this is what I think needs to improved on WAR:
(1) Brutal Swing needs to land instantly instead of on a delay, and it's CD needs to be reduced to 15 or 20 seconds. 30 seconds is too long, and the windup makes it so not being on GCD it is still worthless. This is why PLD is always stun bitch on HM Ifrit.
(2) Healing potency needs to be increased on WAR. Since WAR has no damage mitigation it should be healed about 20-25% more than a PLD can with same healer and same spell and same gear. This would bring WAR up to par with PLD when PLD is cycling his many mitigation CDs.
(3) Inner Beast should be buffed. It's WAR's only self-heal from Infuriate, which means at most you can only do it every 15-20 seconds. It's already situational at best, so really it should be doing more than ~1k of healing on me when I have 6.4k HP.
(4) WAR should get some cross-class skills from PLD. Having only Foresight and Keen Flurry is ridiculous, I understand the principle of a sponge tank but why does PLD get 4 different mitigation skills all of which mitigate 20-25% damage and WAR gets a shitty +10% DEF increase and a shitty cross-class skill from PGL which might cause you to dodge one attack every 3 minutes?
(5) Second Wind is shitty on WAR. Buff it or remove it from cross-class skills entirely and replace it with PLD mitigation skills.
(1) Brutal Swing needs to land instantly instead of on a delay, and it's CD needs to be reduced to 15 or 20 seconds. 30 seconds is too long, and the windup makes it so not being on GCD it is still worthless. This is why PLD is always stun bitch on HM Ifrit.
(2) Healing potency needs to be increased on WAR. Since WAR has no damage mitigation it should be healed about 20-25% more than a PLD can with same healer and same spell and same gear. This would bring WAR up to par with PLD when PLD is cycling his many mitigation CDs.
(3) Inner Beast should be buffed. It's WAR's only self-heal from Infuriate, which means at most you can only do it every 15-20 seconds. It's already situational at best, so really it should be doing more than ~1k of healing on me when I have 6.4k HP.
(4) WAR should get some cross-class skills from PLD. Having only Foresight and Keen Flurry is ridiculous, I understand the principle of a sponge tank but why does PLD get 4 different mitigation skills all of which mitigate 20-25% damage and WAR gets a shitty +10% DEF increase and a shitty cross-class skill from PGL which might cause you to dodge one attack every 3 minutes?
(5) Second Wind is shitty on WAR. Buff it or remove it from cross-class skills entirely and replace it with PLD mitigation skills.
Well, in La Noscea, your tanks at that level tend to mostly be MRD's, and while it's possible to steal aggro back once another character takes it, without the GLD's Provoke skill it can be tough. It essentially amounts to spamming Overpower and praying. To be fair, GLD has the same problem until you get Provoke, and even when you get Provoke, using it is no guarantee you'll be able to steal Aggro back.
Rule of thumb, if you're not a Tank class, you probably shouldn't be launching the opening volley if you can help it. Wait until a Tank makes a move, then jump in to support them.
Yeah, seems like it. I finally had my first 'bad' group thru the DF earlier in Brayflox, but that was just because the tank and healer were a bit lackluster (tank couldn't remember his AOE aggro skills, WHM couldn't sleep and mistargetted a lot). They were still friendly folks though, and we got through in the end. Even got the end boss on the first try. \o/
I dunno. You need a good off-tank class too. In WoW, I played a Druid, which excelled at picking up adds and tearing them to pieces while dodging their shitty little attacks, but didn't fare so well against hard-hitting bosses. Boss duty belonged to our Paladin, who was basically indestructible when tanking a boss but wasn't that great at snap threat and AoE. I wouldn't indict Warriors as broken based on the reactions of a few early end-game players.
I really ought to do those dungeons but I already have a mostly complete Hoplite set for my Paladin at 50 zzz.
Teletraan1
Banned
Fate bosses dont hit hard while leveling. While I have been leveling my THM I end up tanking most of the NM and you take next to no damage if you avoid their casted avoidable damage. I dont kite the thing around, I stand there and do my rotation and avoid red squares/circles. If I throw in a heal or two during my ice phase I can keep myself pretty much topped off. When I leveled ACN I would just use Topaz until he wasn't able to hold enmity anymore and then I would just tank it.
I'm going to agree with most of this. It's odd because, some of these are no brainers, especially when it comes to Brutal Swing. It's one of my favorite moves, "When I can use it!" It just takes way too long to use it again though. In boss fights, it usually means that I can stun a boss out of one AoE attack, but miss the second. That's kinda, bad, since the rest of your party may be slow to get out of the AoE field the next time as a result.
Still, I'm enjoying the class a lot. It's tanking capabilities need to be buffed slightly, but they definitely hit a lot harder than Paladins.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It remains to be seen if Squenix will design content such that PLD/WAR combo is better than PLD/PLD, thus preventing people from not taking WAR tanks at all. I should mention that insofar as snap threat is concerned, the tank which gets Provoke is GLD at 22. It's a GLD/PLD skill, not a MRD/WAR skill. WAR needs to level GLD to 22 to get Provoke, something I still need to do if I'm going to successfully off-tank the red add on Garuda HM.
As long as PLD can't get Overpower, I think MRD/WAR will always be the better AoE tank. Again, it remains to be seen if Squenix will design content to reward bringing both tank classes instead of only one or the other.
Reading this and having a WAR at level 40 atm makes me cringe a little inside
I agree with your points, tanking has been fine so far - but Inner Beast is more of a convenience when tanking FATE bosses than a survival tool to be used in dungeons. None of the other cooldowns actually help me to stay alive in a dungeon. Bloodbath heals for a pitiful amount, even with Convalescence on.
If WAR's fall to the offtank role in the endgame I'm fine with that, if they get something to compensate - more damage, more aoe damage or something that sets them aside. I don't just want to be a second rate PLD.
Not broken, but since there are only two Tanking classes, they need to at least passably fill each others rolls a bit better. Warriors are better for Adds, since they can chew through them a bit better, and have an AoE aggro move that causes damage.
Being better geared for that is fine. That said, Tanks in general are in high demand, and it'll be awhile before we have many Tanks that can run as either Paladin or Warrior. Because of this, I'd posit that Warriors need to be able to at least do a passable job of Tanking endgame bosses, without the constant attention of a healer.
That, and the stun move's timer really mitigates the usefulness of the move, REALLY. I normally wouldn't complain, but since it's the only real stun move available for the job, it's a problem.
Here you go --> Sentinel Armor (XIVModels.com)
I haven't actually seen this in-game so I'm not sure how accurate it is. Most things I've checked on xivmodels have been spot-on though.
Between leveling gathering and crafts (I want lvl 50 Culinarian and Alchemist because fuck it, I'm a mad scientist cook and Weaver because I need it), I feel there is a lot to be played, still. But I fear I am always postponing the dungeon grinding. I actually like the dungeons in this game, so far, but I'll quickly won't if I have to do them literally dozens of time.
The good side about the bottleneck is that there will always be people to do the 50s dungeons with, but that's the good side to me. I have said a million times that I hate this endgame-focus design choice. Well, here's one more, then: I hate it.
At least the game let you level other stuff on the side, which is definetly one of its best features.
I remember TERA when high-level crafting meant instead of running the dungeon 50 times for gear, you had to run it 100 times for materials. That's just the game telling me to go fuck myself.
The good side about the bottleneck is that there will always be people to do the 50s dungeons with, but that's the good side to me. I have said a million times that I hate this endgame-focus design choice. Well, here's one more, then: I hate it.
At least the game let you level other stuff on the side, which is definetly one of its best features.
I remember TERA when high-level crafting meant instead of running the dungeon 50 times for gear, you had to run it 100 times for materials. That's just the game telling me to go fuck myself.
My client crashed twice today, I don't know why - nothing different was going on in the background.
Anyway, I'm currently lvl 38 working my way through side and story quests in Coerthas (with a bit of FATE on the side- that 20k exp from Svara is nice, but the zerging leading up to it slows my client right down so that messages and side-effects don't activate till after everything is dead. note: the crashing issue occurred at different times and places to the slowdown), and I was wondering about Qarn (which people in the FC said was horrible) and Cutters Cry... Aside from the mention of Qarn in the hunting log, are these side dungeons worth doing? Also, what levels are Stone Vigil( that's the next story dungeon, right?) and Garuda Normal?
Anyway, I'm currently lvl 38 working my way through side and story quests in Coerthas (with a bit of FATE on the side- that 20k exp from Svara is nice, but the zerging leading up to it slows my client right down so that messages and side-effects don't activate till after everything is dead. note: the crashing issue occurred at different times and places to the slowdown), and I was wondering about Qarn (which people in the FC said was horrible) and Cutters Cry... Aside from the mention of Qarn in the hunting log, are these side dungeons worth doing? Also, what levels are Stone Vigil( that's the next story dungeon, right?) and Garuda Normal?
MagicWithEarvin
Member
If I just finished Haukke Manor, how much longer until Brayflox? I'm just bum-rushing through the filler story quests unless there's something major going on. Can't wait to farm Brayflox for my Infantry set.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Got titan down to 10% I got this mother fuckers patern down. Now my dps needs to stop dying 
I healed 150k on it with my fairy healing 70k the other healers healed 70k and 80k xD never had mana issue either SCH is a healing beast
Finished Stone Vigil on my level 45 WHM. I have to say, I was really lucky with my groups since Brayflox's Longstop. It hopefully will stay like this with the remaining story dungeons, but I really doubt it.
Only a minor annoyance: nobody cares to run out of AOE effects at first, but they suddenly execute the fights more or less perfectly when someone dies because I had to prioritize the tank.
Only a minor annoyance: nobody cares to run out of AOE effects at first, but they suddenly execute the fights more or less perfectly when someone dies because I had to prioritize the tank.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I seem to be running in areas where the tanks just don't show. No biggie, I'm kind of getting used to this taking on FATE's solo until more people show kind of thing.
Yeah, I kind of noticed that unless I'm in the crazy high areas, I can solo a ton of FATE bosses and I pretty much play only mages or archer. I think my only problem surfaces when my pet uses an AOE move and attracts the attention of nearby enemies.
Anywho I'm trying to level up BTN, what areas other than the South Shroud are good for gathering? I'm at level 21 now...or was it 22? Either or works.
And HOLY COW does the Haukke Manor look awesome. How far after Toto Rak do I get to do that? Leveling isn't an issue as I'm halfway to 37.
Rising_Hei
Member
The problem with endgame community is that people who often asks more for others (hey if u dont have X piece of equipment u suck), are often the worst players.
In my FC i always see a BLM that asks people who is known to have plenty of Darklight about their equipment before doing things, the funny thing is that he hasn't had a decebt weapon for ages (his weapon is much worse than Ifrit's) and doesn't even know how to do the BLM skill rotation, hence his DMG sucks and everything we do with him goes really SLOW.
I told him that his priority should be getting a better weapon, and he said "weapons aren't important for BLM"
This is just an example, but the game is full of people like this, thank god that there is awesome people, too.
In my FC i always see a BLM that asks people who is known to have plenty of Darklight about their equipment before doing things, the funny thing is that he hasn't had a decebt weapon for ages (his weapon is much worse than Ifrit's) and doesn't even know how to do the BLM skill rotation, hence his DMG sucks and everything we do with him goes really SLOW.
I told him that his priority should be getting a better weapon, and he said "weapons aren't important for BLM"
This is just an example, but the game is full of people like this, thank god that there is awesome people, too.
I think Haukke Manor is level 28-30,and then everyone's favorite Brayflox is 32-34.
Teletraan1
Banned
From a healing perspective I find WAR takes more damage than PLD on multi mob situations. So while they are better for burning the enemies down they seem to take more damage doing so. Shield tanks are always better for multi mob unless they do some gimmick on the non shield tanks that either gives them a lot of avoidance and armor (druid in wow) or some fake shield (blood shield dk or stagger on monk in wow, even druid had savage defense which was a damage mitigation bubble) since a shield tank has a chance to mitigate every single attack by blocking it. With 471 Str and 350 block rating they can mitigate up to 44% of the damage. That said I dont find that the adds in this game do that much damage anyway so its not a game breaker but I can tell the difference and might be an issue as the content ramps up.
Anyone know how long this maintenance is? The launcher needs to get this information rather than having old shit on it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The bigger problem is that WAR takes much more damage than PLD on bosses. Which is okay because you know the HP pool is bigger. BUT, BUT the healing potency on WAR is not sufficiently above potency on PLD to make up for this. So I've noticed my healers burning a lot of MP on me which they don't have to on a PLD simply because their heals aren't as efficient as % of HP lost than on a PLD. That's the biggest problem I think I have with WAR right now outside of debates about stun skills and damage mitigation or lack thereof. If the healers run out of MP before the fight ends on me whereas they wouldn't healing a PLD the point about everything else is moot. WAR can't tank it, PLD can. End of story.
i have 1 day left of my sub and i cant play cause EU is down it seems.
i dont get payed till 20th
Really? You seriously don't have a spare 15 bucks in your bank account?
Xux
Member
So would you buff the effect from Wrath or add it somewhere else like straight to Defiance?
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Well, I finished up Haukke Manor at level 33 and about half-way to 34. Probably another hour or two before Brayflox? Filler story quests here I come (after maintenance of course).
tiggerkiddo
Member
Thanks, seems there are quite a few quests to do after Tata Rok before I can do Haukke. No telling how many are between that and Brayflox, oh wellz. I'll just level something else up.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm lazy so I would like them to add it straight to Defiance.
OK serious answer: You burn your Infuriated in order to do Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone (which sucks horribly now), and Unchained (which you'll never use when tanking). So it's not reliable to add it to Wrath stacks, unless they reduce the number of stacks required to do your Infuriated skills. Instead of 5 stacks, just 3 stacks. Then I would be okay with the buff going to Wrath. This would also let you use IB more often, which I would honestly prefer over just a straight buff to IB but still requiring 5 stacks. Also you would actually be able to use Unchained sometimes to help with party DPS when you didn't need an IB right then and you had your stacks, whereas right now you pretty much never use it because you're always trying to save your IB and keep Infuriated status because 5 stacks takes 15-20 seconds to build up from zero unless you burn Infuriate which can only be used every 3 minutes.
Teletraan1
Banned
I haven't noticed it as much on bosses but I can see this being a problem. It is definitely noticeable on trash and any multi mob situations on the content I have done. Admittedly I haven't done all the content so a grain of salt but a healer shouldn't be running out of mana in this game, especially if healing the tank. The tank heals are relatively cheap, its only the big AOE healing spells that are expensive but more mana spent while learning fights is not optimal as this is when most healers will waste mana, once you learn the fight the damage is more predictable and over healing goes away. It shouldn't take more than a few tweaks to get them in line. I never played FFXI but one thing I notice about the community for this game is that if something isn't 100% optimal it is 100% garbage so that doesn't bode well for WAR to get in a group. Hopefully they get is sorted fast.
Well, what I've found it that, I myself, can hold my HP fairly well, even in a multi-mob situation, if I focus everything I have onto my HP recovery moves. The problem with that is, that it makes holding Aggro kinda difficult.
I mean, you have Bloodbath, HP Leeching combo's, and Mercy Kill, and there's nothing preventing you from using all three actively most of the time. When you do, even when you're being attacked by three or more enemies, you can hold onto your HP fairly well, so long as they're none of them are real power hitter type enemies.
However, while you're doing that, you cannot use your Aggro combo's, nor can you spam overkill or flash. The HP absorption rate on these various moves are low enough that you're essentially healing yourself with a thousand band-aids, which means you've got to keep going constantly if you're going to keep up. So, while it's possible to survive that sort of assault with a Warrior with your HP in decent shape, the margin for error is fairly low, and it leaves little room for Aggro. A slight buff to the HP leaching capacity would take care of both issues.
Now to be fair, in a party with a healer, you're not going to play that way. In those cases you break out the HP healing moves when your HP starts slipping, and you want to quickly get it refilled. You could just rely on the Healer, but, this reduces the amount of work the healer has to do.
So, yeah I don't think it's anything fundamentally broken with the class. The HP leeching moves just needs a very subtle buff, and the Warrior Stun move needs to be reworked. Once that happens, I think the Warrior class will nearly be as good for Single enemy tanking as the Paladin, and slightly better for Add-Tanking.
Incidentally, one of the reasons Warriors are better for tanking adds, isn't just that their AoE Aggro move does damage, but also because it has more range. Flash covers more space in terms of volume, but because it's a perfect circle the actual range isn't that far. With Overkill, warriors usually don't have to move very far for enemies to be within proper Aggro distance. Paladins on the other hand, have to move right into the middle of any new Mobs, in order to Aggro them all.
I mean, you can pull a little Aggro with Shield Lob and Tomohawk, but only for a single enemy, and these moves won't hold aggro for long.
Dude, come on.
Nose Master
Member
Gonna get lost in end-game stuff but: Crafting in this game is pretty great.
Can we make that lowbie thread yet?
Teletraan1
Banned
Most of the WAR I have played are mostly from Doodie Finder and are just trying to get big numbers while they get trucked. I rarely ever see them heal themselves unless they get kinda low since as you said it takes time away from doing damage or whatever. I am sure there are good WAR out there that can strike a good balance, its probably just a harder class to play if you want to actually play it right and get decent results and there is nothing wrong with that. They probably need a few small tweaks to bring them in line with PLD. It is just that for weaker players not doing what they need to do is a toxic mix. It really reminds me of WoTLK DK tanks. If played right they were superb. If played wrong your healer wanted to shoot themselves.
100 = $1 apparently so you'd need like...1399? Or whatever the rate is for 30 days.
Sounds about right. Thankfully though, there's nothing preventing players from leveling up separate classes. So I expect most weak warriors will eventually make the jump to paladin instead.
Mists launched with 9 dungeons, 3 were "reworked" but you could apply the same argument to a lot of ARR content... the differences are significant enough that I wouldn't hold it against either. There was 1 raid available day one but the others were patched in a month or so later.
You are right that they tried shifting the focus on questing and people hated it because it was a mindless/grueling grind of doing the same 15 quests over and over... very similar to ARR's dungeon grind. GC has actually said that they regret pushing dungeons to the background and want to release more in the next expac.
No doubt, holding back CT left a huge hole in endgame progression, the issue is that they didn't adequately fill it in. 2.1 is coming but 3 months is a long time in the MMO world. TOR lost half a million subs in a similar time frame because it lacked a compelling endgame. I'm hoping they offer up some endgame tweaks before then. Would be great if they can get CT in earlier, Yoshi said it was done a month ago.
I wish I would enjoy crafting, because I'm gonna need it for money... but I just cant
. I tried again yesterday and got bored within 1 level. It annoys me so much having to deal with a lot of others materials from differents craft/gathers than the ones Im leveling.Still leveling my botanist , even if its a huge grind, I like it more than a craft. At 30 now.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Who will then put all points into STR right!
I wish I would enjoy crafting, because I'm gonna need it for money... but I just cant
Still leveling my botanist , even if its a huge grind, I like it more than a craft. At 30 now.
You can macro your crafts, though this helps more for some than others.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Because as is its already too easy to get from 1-50. If it was any easier EVERYONE would be 50 by now seriously.
If you hare having problems with leveling Im sorry but to be blunt you must be doing something seriously wrong.
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