Halo 2 made me want to get a 360 Halo 4 makes me think I can pass on Xbone

pixlexic said:
Halo 4 isn't bad I think there is just the normal series fatigue. It's hard to come up something new in a fps.
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I think that's true.

I reckon if Halo just stayed the same with each new game, the wider audience would continue to drift away to newer, fresher things anyway. If 343 changes things, it's risky because if those changes end up not being to fans' tastes and don't bring in newcomers, the community shrinks that way too.

Halo has a lot more competition these days, I'm a fan but I believe its glory days are over no matter what they do at this point.
 
Nebula said:
Bungie made Reach. Reach received massive amounts of criticism. Halo 4 continued in the direction that Reach was taking the franchise, and received massive amounts of criticism.

Seeing a pattern here?
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Well 343 made a title update for Reach so it still counts!!!!
 
flkraven said:
It's funny how perception drives everything. Because it is not Bungie, Halo 4 gets shit on harder than any other Halo game. If Bungie had made it, some of its short-comings would be overlooked or glossed over.
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I challenge you to back up these assertions. The major critiques of Halo 4 are very specific, and none have anything to do with "not being made by Bungie". They are about things like UI, visual feedback, AI design, sandbox balance, MP design decisions such as personal and global ordnance.

Bungie recieved a great deal of criticism as well when they deviated from the core tenants of what defined Halo, such as armor abilities, as well.
 
I've only played 1 and 2 but 2's campaign was far worse. Too many long boring mandatory vehicle sections, new bulletsponge enemies, dual wielding introduced balance issues, and dat (terrible) ending.
 
personally the downfall already started when bungie introduced armor abilities.
I will give 343 one more change so far they seem to choose 60fps hope they can do it without going back to 720p :(

If Halo 5 isn't old school fun like halo 3 which i can still play online for hours without getting really too pissed off then fps halo franchise might as well be dead for me.

/Will probably get Halo 6 even if Halo 5 sucks too much of a halo fanboy :'(
 
I agree, I was raised on playstation but I bought an xbox and xbox 360 for halo 1 2 3.

Halo 2 has my favorite online mp of any game I have played.

Haven't enjoyed a halo game since odst(amazing campaign). Also haven't used my 360 in months and now that Titanfall is coming to PC and isnt xbox one exclusive I have no reason to own an xbox one.
 
Halo 4 is "meh" in my book. It started good but ended like a bad after taste in my mouth that you can't wash away with water.
 
It seems that people advance judgement on 343. Certainly Halo 4 is not as good as Reach or 3 and certainly Halo is no longer as unique as Halo 2 was last gen but 4 is the first tittle of 343 and not many developers release a game as polished as 4 is, I can only think upcoming games will be better. Some thing that catched my attention in 4 is that the game is fairly more linear but I think it is because they had to compromised the level design in order to pull ojttbose outstanding graphics, now with more powerful hardware I'm sure they will make an experience at larger scale.
 
Here is what is wrong with Halo 4 to me, this is coming from a Multi-player standpoint.

I played Halo for the arena shooter aspect of it, I played Call of Duty for the arcade like aspect of it and I played Battlefield for the Big Team vehicle warfare aspect. All these games had their own thing going for them and had their own identity as to what kind of game they were. Halo 4 comes a long and gets rid of weapon spawns on maps*, weapons staying on bodies for longer than 10 sec, everyone on even ground on spawn, added a from of kill streaks*, removed A LOT of custom game options, and had a very small selection of small maps. To me Halo 4 went against what a made Halo game a Halo game

* means changed / different by playlist
 
Caayn said:
The new studio argument doesn't hold any ground. 343i Has said that they had a classic Halo experience before they dumped it and switched to the new experience, albeit under some pressure of MS. They've shown with Halo 4 that they have the technical know-how needed to make a great game. They've also shown us that they don't care about Halo by giving us Halo 4, a game with an identity crisis, a weak/cheap story and a lack of features from previous installments in the franchise.
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Seems like all the faults of being a new studio. Saying things like "we had classic Halo experience". So now you believe everything a new studio says?! It took Bungie game after game to make a game like Halo.

All our there choices just prove that they're new & will have to learn from there mistakes, they are slowly becoming a better & better team. I'm happy to see that & can't wait for the next game.
 
The problem with 343 is that it was formed with the sole intent of creating Halo games. While Bungie made a bunch of Halo games this gen, the company never came off as a Halo factory to me because I felt like they wanted to achieve a set amount of things before they moved on to another franchise.

What I'm getting at is that the Halo franchise under Bungie was always exciting for me because I was interested in seeing what they had set out to accomplish in this universe without the notion that they were going to milk it dry.

343 on the other hand feels like a directionless studio that will continue creating Halo games without any broader goals other than to create more Halo.
 
I'm kind of shocked by the OP. I thought Halo 4 had the best storytelling of all the titles in the series (save for the waypoint videos. Just put that in the game 343). The cinematic were stunning and the gameplay was incredibly solid. I've played through it like 4 times already.

There's a lot of reasons why I want an Xbox one: new Dead Rising, Forza, Kinect 2 universal remote functions, and especially a new Halo. I want more campagn and a more realized Sparten Ops because that was a fun addition.
 
Grief.exe said:
Its arguable that Halo 4 may have damaged the brand significantly http://halocharts.com/2013/playlists_halo4.php

I wonder if the number of people interested in Halo 5 has decreased like the amount of players even playing the game.

I wonder how the DLC sales have effected their overall income for the title. Only a small percentage of the player base even buys DLC, if the vast majority of that player base is not even logging in, then they are reducing their revenue.
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Daangg that is just wow. I have played some halo. Most played for me was Reach though,the MP was good fun for me. But after that i just stopped playing.
 
FyreWulff said:
343 wasn't pressured by MS on sandbox design. They made those choices themselves
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Apologies, I was Always under the impression that they were somewhat pressured by MS. I've just re-read the interview in were this was stated. And Holmes indeed states that 343i themselves scrapped the traditional Halo.
 
Halo 4 is a better version of everything in the series except map design and CE's campaign. Easily the best playing, best looking game in the series. Can't wait to see what 343 does without the rigid ceiling that is the 360 hardware holding back multiplayer and single player level design.

Dedicated servers and 60 fps pretty much ensures I'll enjoy the multiplayer either way.
 
Halo 4 is not that bad, I mean it's a masterpiece compared to some the other FPSs I played on the 360 and it's filled with them. It just pales in comparison to some of the rest of the games in the series. And let's be honest, that's a pedigree which very hard to beat.
 
Timemuffin said:
I'm kind of shocked by the OP. I thought Halo 4 had the best storytelling of all the titles in the series (save for the waypoint videos. Just put that in the game 343). The cinematic were stunning and the gameplay was incredibly solid. I've played through it like 4 times already.

There's a lot of reasons why I want an Xbox one: new Dead Rising, Forza, Kinect 2 universal remote functions, and especially a new Halo. I want more campagn and a more realized Sparten Ops because that was a fun addition.
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I thought the story itself was the most disappointing in the whole series. It just feels like a massive missed opportunity. Yes, the cutscenes look nice with the new mocap tech, but overall I was hoping for something new and different in the vein of a Metroid Prime in terms of isolation and mystery.

You've got this great setup where Master Chief is alone of an unknown world, and yet it turns into a generic Halo story with none of the mystery that the original Halo had. MC meets up with the humans from Forward Unto Dawn, and there's zero character development here at all. You're expecting to be treated like a real badass after the first 3 games, but instead it's just an "Oh wow never thought I'd see you again." The relationship between Lasky and Chief that was setup in the webseries is totally ignored, and Del Rio is essentially a huge piece of shit for no reason other than to be a contrived roadblock to Chief saving Cortana.

For a story that seemed so focused on building the "return" of Master Chief, the story did a whole lot of nothing in making him even seem like an important character, and downplaying what happened in the first 3 games.

All of that is not even getting into the horrible Promethean enemies, overused Covenant, hilariously short, linear, and standard campaign, and questionable multiplayer design decisions.
 
Halo 4 is probably my favourite of the series, of course it didn't have as much impact as the first 2 games in the series, but it's still great. I will say that I generally don't play multiplayer very much.
 
rightly or wrongly the series is evolving and trying to stay relevant. I think they've mostly done a good job with that. Releasing the same game over and over isn't exactly a recipe for success either. Regarding campaigns, the game has mostly continued to get better. I still think Reach is the best campaign overall, but may have the worst mp due to Forge maps, armor lock, and just poor maps in general.

I think 4's mp is stellar. 4's campaign was hit and miss though. They humanized chief and cortana which was great, but the prometheans weren't particularly good enemies to fight. It was visually fantastic, but they sacrificed some larger battles to get those visuals. the pacing was also off. i have faith that 343 can create the larger battles and make them look great on the XB1.
 
Have to disagree. I enjoyed halo 4 quite a lot. But, I'm still passing on Xbone until it's cheaper. Getting ps4 at launch.
 
H4 was not bad but Halo feels old and just plain unispired now. Halo 4 cemented this, just same old...

Destiny is the next gen Halo imo
 
OnPoint said:
Halo 4 is the first halo mp I've enjoyed since CE
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Also true for me. I spent more time in Halo 4 multiplayer than any of the other Halos. Movement and firing felt better, sprint as default provided the mobility I wanted, and loadouts and personal ordnance led to a certain level of battlefield chaos that I associate with Halo and enjoyed, but that the old school fans hated.

It was the most approachable, the easiest to pick up and play, the easiest to learn, and the most simply satisfying multiplayer in the series to date. Everybody could jump in and get quality time with power weapons and vehicles and help the team. What it lacked was that tactical depth and predictable cause->effect, item based map control and readability that the hardcore have come to know and love.

I understand the disappointment, but I'll never understand the sheer potency of the negativity thrown at it.
 
Halo 2 was good, but it had ideas that were ahead of its time in terms of console-based online multiplayer. The 360 did virtually everything Halo 2 had tried to do but on a native, system-integrated level. That did make me want to play Halo 3 really badly, and was a huge factor in buying a 360 when I did (summer of 07).

I still like Halo, and enjoyed Halo 4 quite a bit, but it's less of a revolution to me now. If I pick up a 'bone in a 3-4 years and Halo 5 has already been out for a year I think I'll be ok jumping in and playing the campaign and a few multiplayer games and move on. It won't take over my life like Halo 2 and 3 did.
 
Bungie said:
Seems like all the faults of being a new studio. Saying things like "we had classic Halo experience". So now you believe everything a new studio says?! It took Bungie game after game to make a game like Halo.

All our there choices just prove that they're new & will have to learn from there mistakes, they are slowly becoming a better & better team. I'm happy to see that & can't wait for the next game.
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All their choices could have been made by a more "senior" studio. Frank O'Connor, Kikki Wolfkill and Josh Holmes (and plenty of others) should have known better. Frank O'Connor is even an old Bungie employee.

They've over 5 Halo games to look back at. And see which approach was the most popular and which feature/gameplay/story/etc would work best. They've got very skilled story-writers working with them (Greg Bear). They've the blank cheque from MS. They've got some of the worlds best game-devs. They've got everything needed to make a great Halo game. They've even promised us many things before launch to get us onto the hype train. For example Frank O'Connor promised us that their will be classic playlist available at launch, Jessica Shea even said this again TWO MONTHS before launch.

But what we got at launch wasn't anything that resembles the Halo that we were promised. They've shown us that they know what Halo is, via the promises they made, and that they've got the technical skills to make it happen. There's no excuse for what 343i has done.
 
REV 09 said:
rightly or wrongly the series is evolving and trying to stay relevant. I think they've mostly done a good job with that. Releasing the same game over and over isn't exactly a recipe for success either. Regarding campaigns, the game has mostly continued to get better. I still think Reach is the best campaign overall, but may have the worst mp due to Forge maps, armor lock, and just poor maps in general.

I think 4's mp is stellar. 4's campaign was hit and miss though. They humanized chief and cortana which was great, but the prometheans weren't particularly good enemies to fight. It was visually fantastic, but they sacrificed some larger battles to get those visuals. the pacing was also off. i have faith that 343 can create the larger battles and make them look great on the XB1.
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Evolving it is fine. Just trying to appeal to the COD audience isn't. If they took some real chances and it didn't work out I would be willing to give them a pass.

Of course none of that matters if they can't make quality maps.
 
flkraven said:
It's funny how perception drives everything. Because it is not Bungie, Halo 4 gets shit on harder than any other Halo game. If Bungie had made it, some of its short-comings would be overlooked or glossed over.
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No. Bungie received a great deal of hate 10 years ago when the community was shifting from Halo CE to Halo 2. Granted it was the beginning of really showing what Xbox Live was capable of. But more valid arguments don't blindly hate a game simply because of the developer.

There are specific reasons behind it.

That being said:
343_2.gif


See the irony?
 
Halo 4 is the reason I end up selling my xbox 360 and Im buying a PS4 for next gen.

Halo 4 might be a decent FPS, but the changes made to the MP, small changes of elements that have been there as well as expanding the Armor Abilities aberration killed of my interest in Halo.

Anyone that has been player Halo multiplayer since Halo CE or Halo 2 days will also hate halo 4.
 
Doran902 said:
I agree, I was raised on playstation but I bought an xbox and xbox 360 for halo 1 2 3.

Halo 2 has my favorite online mp of any game I have played.

Haven't enjoyed a halo game since odst(amazing campaign). Also haven't used my 360 in months and now that Titanfall is coming to PC and isnt xbox one exclusive I have no reason to own an xbox one.
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Same here. I was a huge Nintendo and Sony fan and prior to the Xbox releasing I had no interest in it, then I played Halo CE. That changed gaming for me. I became a big FPS fan and the Xbox slowly overtook the PS2 as my primary console. The 360 was a no brainer for me when it came to next-gen systems just because of Halo 3.

After playing Halo 4, my interest in the series is fading. Unless 343 turns it around with Halo 5 next year, it will probably a while until I buy an Xbox One. Titanfall isn't enough when I can play that on 360.
 
Seiru said:
Wow, I've always thought Halo 2 was the worst in the series. Interesting how there can be such radically different viewpoints out there about these games.
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Same here, it's really startling to see such an incredibly different reaction by so many. Of course, I guess I differ from most FPS players, because I play mainly for the campaign. That said, the first Halo was the best in my opinion. Nothing ever came near it, and the majority of changes introduced in the sequels only made it worse.
 
NullPointer said:
Also true for me. I spent more time in Halo 4 multiplayer than any of the other Halos. Movement and firing felt better, sprint as default provided the mobility I wanted, and loadouts and personal ordnance led to a certain level of battlefield chaos that I associate with Halo and enjoyed, but that the old school fans hated.

It was the most approachable, the easiest to pick up and play, the easiest to learn, and the most simply satisfying multiplayer in the series to date. Everybody could jump in and get quality time with power weapons and vehicles and help the team. What it lacked was that tactical depth and predictable cause->effect, item based map control and readability that the hardcore have come to know and love.

I understand the disappointment, but I'll never understand the sheer potency of the negativity thrown at it.
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You actually listed some of the most common reasons I see discussed as to why the MP is disliked. For you these were minor issues or even positives. For myself, they were reach-out-and-power-down-the-console levels of terrible game design. I found global and personal ordnance, in conjunction with other elements (perks, AA's) to be totally game breaking. I can understand why the level of chaos could be enjoyable, but what I loved about Halo's BTB was that it was - at its best - controlled chaos.

To put it more simply, I loved Halo 3's BTB, but hated BTB Heavies because it pitched that balance and restraint out the window in favor of chaos. Halo 4's BTB was all Heavies, all the time* But, there were a lot of people who enjoyed Heavies.


*I haven't played since January, so my experience may be dated.
 
Stimpack said:
Of course, I guess I differ from most FPS players, because I play mainly for the campaign.
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I think that's it really. I enjoy Halo for campaign primarily, with multiplayer as a very nice extra that is fun for a few weeks or months, but mutliplayer focused players see *only* the multiplayer side of things. Its something I've been noticing a lot more lately.

GhaleonEB said:
You actually listed some of the most common reasons I see discussed as to why the MP is disliked. For you these were minor issues or even positives. For myself, they were reach-out-and-power-down-the-console levels of terrible game design. I found global and personal ordnance, in conjunction with other elements (perks, AA's) to be totally game breaking. I can understand why the level of chaos could be enjoyable, but what I loved about Halo's BTB was that it was - at its best - controlled chaos.
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Yeah, I can definitely understand that, and I also see it as a design trade-off. They purposefully sacrificed depth for accessibility and a more pleasant curve from noob to semi-experienced. And as far as that goal is concerned I think they hit it out of the park.

What I'd like to see them do with Halo 5 is to take what they've learned about how to introduce the game to players, but to remove those training wheels and push players into the more predictable, classic map control gameplay the old school has come to know and love. Basically, keep that skill and learning curve, but keep going with it until the apex of gameplay is old school, pro playlist stuff. Or to put it another way, the Halo 4 we know would become the beginner playlists of Halo 5.

Face it - when the old school learned the game, times were different. There's way too much competition out there to just beat the snot out of noobs over and over again before they get a bearing on things. It was also hard for a noob to get any good time with power weapons when the more skilled players would beeline for them or "call them" before team-killing and the like. Those were real problems that Halo 4 solved to a large degree, just at too high a cost for many. And that sacrificed depth cut the game's legs off.

I think its pretty likely they completely flip the script on multiplayer again. Don't know. Its really anybody's guess.
 
I'm in the same boat as the OP. H2 made Halo my favorite franchise on any platform for years, and 4 killed off any interest I have in the series going forward. And there aren't really any other MS exclusives I care about, guess I'll just buy a PS4 and play Destiny!
 
It is simply because Halo 2 was the second Halo game and it was a question of how it changed and how has it moved forward and all the excitement surrounding that.

Halo 4 is the 6th Halo game. If anything they haven't pushed far enough outward. You can still pick up Halo 4 and it feels like a Halo game, looks like a Halo game, and is viewed as a Halo game. The series has nothing new or special or fresh to offer as it is bound to Halo and the franchise tentpoles of Halo. Thankfully Halo is a pretty damn good entity unto itself.

It is exactly how I view Zelda. There is next to nothing Zelda can do to make itself exciting again within its framework, but remains a great game series.

Now, if they did a single player open world Halo like Far Cry 3 and a massively multiplayer component like Planetside that would completely change up the franchise...leading to a ton of bitching from fans yet again.
 
Halo 4 killed my friends list (which compromises of 90% HaloGaf members).

And it also convinced me to switch back to the Playstation.

It's quite impressive that one franchise managed to tie me to a brand for over a decade.

Overall, I won't miss the direction of the franchise going forward.
 
flkraven said:
If Bungie had made (Halo 4), some of its short-comings would be overlooked or glossed over.
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It's personally my opinion that Bungie has made exactly 1 great Halo game, and very likely only accidentally got that one right, and the rest have all suffered, so it being Bungie vs. 343 makes no difference to me. Neither has proven themselves. I took Bungie leaving Halo as a good thing for the franchise, not a bad. At least in theory. The way Halo 4 turned out, maybe Bungie wasn't all th... no, nevermind, they had me playing Rogue Squadron in Reach and crapped all over their own cannon, so forget them, too.

And with studio turnover, it's not like they're even the same people as 2001, anyway. Bungie is a meaningless name on the building, not the people inside of it.
 
Halo 4 was excellent. I have high expectations for what 343i can achieve on X1.
 
Grief.exe said:
Halo 2 made me want to get a 360 for Halo 3.

Microsoft's output since that point has essentially pushed me to PC and, now, PS3/PS4.
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OP and Grief pretty much said anything that needed to be said.

Me and my friends all got 360s because of how much we absolutely loved Halo. We all, at least at some point earlier in the console's cycle, loved our 360s. But more recently - and much at Microsoft's own doing - we've been pushed more and more toward PC. It's rapidly become our platform of choice (especially now that our last main gaming friend without one is now interested in a gaming pc), and next-gen we're making the jump to PS4 for console-exclusives (i.e. Destiny).


Halo 4, I admit is very polarizing, and I understand how people think it gets unjust flak compared to Reach. I personally love Reach, but I also have plenty of things about Reach that I can bitch about.

But with Reach, ultimately, you were still playing Halo. Halo 4... not so much. The "faster-paced" (read: CoD-appealing) gameplay feels solid, yes (there's absolutely no denying that Halo 4 is a polished game)... but it completely decimates the broader experience, especially when you factor in everything else (i.e. map design and ordnance, etc). One-sided objectives are gone, Assault is gone, and CTF is something completely different. You can move across any map in seconds and the spawn delay is basically nothing - which ruins the flow of all of those gametypes.
 
all of this is IMO....

But for me its always been exclusives that drive my sepcific console purchases, and with that in mind Halo has played a large role....

Never was a huge fan of Halo 2 Campaign, but would have been much more fond of it if i could have played straight through with each chracter instead of the jumping back and forth... (Multiplayer was great at the time, and has held up pretty well if you go back to it)

Halo 4 was the first Halo game where i didn't complete the Campaign (at all on any difficulty)... and instead played MP from the start, was upset with ALOT of the changes specifically in weapon spawning (even in FORGE), as well as other changes.. and finally just deleted in install and put it on the shelf (No DLC purchased)

(Sad note is that my wife never even opened her copy after seeing a friend and I play the game over live....and she was a rather big fan of 3)..

I just don't care for the road the series seems to be going down (game play/mechanic wise)... but i've not written off the series..I'll wait and see how Halo 5 is...
 
Warm Machine said:
Now, if they did a single player open world Halo like Far Cry 3 and a massively multiplayer component like Planetside that would completely change up the franchise...leading to a ton of bitching from fans yet again.
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I would love to see a Halo like that some day, maybe they could make something like that as another spin-off and keep making the same old arena multiplayer alongside it for the die-hard fans.
 
They turned the multiplayer into a cod rip off.

They need to go back to their roots. I'd love them to release Halo 2 HD with multiplayer.
 
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