Cheesemeister
Member
#PS4NoHDCP go go go!
Shuhei Yoshida responds to PS4 gameplay capture rumor
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Live Free or Die
Banned
looks like some people have started tweeting Sony people.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Well I don't upload to YouTube and just stream on Twitch so I'll be fine either way really.
Macho Madness
Member
I feel like those who keep saying "The Share button is enough!" aren't paying attention. The Share button will be fine for most people (and I have yet to see someone say that isn't the case), but there's still no reason for game footage to be behind an HDCP wall. The 360 and Xbox One don't do this. Why can't we just accept it's a dumb thing for Sony to do instead of spouting the same things over and over? It may not be a big deal TO YOU, but it is to some people, and some of these people can make really loud noises if they felt like it. Sony should take it seriously, and it seems they are.
game recording i believe is same as XB1. Not unlimited.
Streaming it involves using your internet and not everyone has good enough internet to do that and then download their archives
Yes, most converters sold today will work well with HDCP 1.3. You can find one on Amazon right now.
shungokusatsu
Member
It will, I believe the rumor about no third-party capturing is due to no component output. If anyone's interested all you need is a splitter, HDMI-to-DVI cable, and an optical cable.
Is it even possible to allow users to bypass HDCP for games but not movies? I imagine bypassing it would require each and every developer to add code to the disc just for HDCP. Also, Xbone supports external capture devices.
360 has HDCP on movies and not games.
itzknickknac
Member
According to the link, you could upload videos to services "including PSN," right?
Can someone explain this 'uploading to PSN service'? Bc my mind is thinking PSN store or maybe a new feature. If that is the case, we can just search video's on there rather than youtube right? Which to me, sounds like "why open up a window and search a video on youtube when you can just search on the PS4?" Meh, but the same can be said the other way around too I guess.
travisbickle
Member
I think the PS4 will have its own social network. People will have their home page, games and companies will have theirs. If you post to YouTube I believe it will still be viewable on your PS4 homepage like Facebook.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Maybe not this time on the PS4:
Sony is implementing HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. For older TVs that can only support the cracked HDCP 1.3 it will support them and strippers should work.
With the PS4 it should be possible to have a TV window open over the game and this would require the OS to turn on HDCP even if the game Developer opted for no protection. By default the PS4 may have HDCP turned on all the time because it can play copyrighted material while playing a game.
With a new 4K Sony TV, HDCP 2.2 will be enabled over HDMI to protect Sony 4K media.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Do we know this as fact?
I'm not sure why this is a big issue. Cheap, reliable HDCP work arounds exist, you can get them on Amazon for less than £20 even if they are not advertised as HDCP strippers.
I bought one for my Avermedia a few months ago and record PS3 footage at 1080p though my HDMI without an issue
I bought one for my Avermedia a few months ago and record PS3 footage at 1080p though my HDMI without an issue
not_so_special
Banned
the xbox one dont use hdcp?
Derpcrawler
Member
If I remember correctly it has HDCP only when playing movies/music/TV shows. Though with all that multi-tasking I am not sure how it will work, like what if you snap to liveTV or you have some TV/Streaming apps on your Dashboard with some kind of preview?
I hope Sony will allow to disable HDCP during gameplay, or at least allow unlimited video capture, since we know there is always last 15 minutes of gameplay at all times, they could just put option in "Share" menu to capture video until told otherwise.
jeff_rigby
Banned
HDMI 2.0 for PS4 is mentioned in a wiki somewhere and Sony stated that they are starting fresh with 4K TVs and implementing HDCP 2.2 on them.
HDCP 2.2 is now a industry standard for DTCP-IP, Miracast Wifi streamed video, HDMI HDCP and more. It relies on ARM TEE which is also the accepted industry standard that is going to replace Cable Cards.
It applies to the coming Xbox 360, PS4, PS3, XB1 and multiple consumer products. All are gong to support DLNA which has been revised to support the FCC rulings. How they do this impacts both the hardware and software stacks: standards, Low power modes and DRM security.
Originally Posted by http://forum.solidsignal.com/content.php/2080-TiVo-Files-Suit-with-the-FCC
My Comcast provider has encrypted all of their signals except for the local channels that another FCC rule protects. My guess is that an accepted standard for the authentication service built into external devices will be based on or at least supported by ARM Trustzone.
Originally Posted by http://www.fcc.gov/document/media-bureau-grants-tivos-request-waiver-ip-output-rule
The above is the FCC RVU ruling along with a delay from Dec 2012 to June 2014 caused by the TiVo suit. It also appears to allow computers connected to the Cable network gateway device to record HD Media without a cable card but with some other accepted standard and software to protect the media. My guess is Windows 8 with AMD hardware including a Trustzone processor can record the Media and properly protect it. DTCP-IP is the network security standard; the question remains as to what the industry thinks is a secure hardware and software stack to support DTCP-IP.On October 14, 2010, the Commission modified Section 76.640(b)(4)(iii) of our rules to require cable operators to “ensure that the cable-operator-provided high definition set-top boxes, except unidirectional set-top boxes without recording functionality, shall comply with an open industry standard that provides for audiovisual communications including service discovery, video transport, and remote control command pass-through standards for home networking” by December 1, 2012 This rule is designed to “enable[e] connectivity with the multitude of IP devices in consumers’ homes.”
For example, consumers would be able to use one leased set-top box as a gateway to send video to multiple devices, including IP-enabled “smart televisions” and retail set-top devices. It would also allow consumers to connect a computer to a set-top box and use the computer’s hard-drive storage to record cable content in lieu of or in addition to leasing an operator-supplied digital video recorder. Requiring the use of an open industry standard and IP-based interface was intended “to accomplish the equipment compatibility purposes of Section 624A”8 and to “fulfill our statutory mandate under Section 629.”9
In this Order, we clarify the meaning of the phrase “open industry standard” as it appears in the Commission’s regulation that requires cable set-top boxes to include a recordable, Internet Protocol (“IP”-based output.1 We also grant a limited waiver of that rule, pursuant to Section 629(c) of the Communications Act, permitting cable operators until June 2, 2014 to comply.2 Finally, we grant small cable operators, as defined below, until September 2, 2014 to comply because of the difficulty they may have obtaining compliant equipment to meet the June 2, 2014 deadline.
The FCC defines the industry standard as DLNA below:
As discussed below, we clarify the elements of an “open industry standard” for purposes of Section 76.640(b)(4)(iii). We conclude that the processes that the Digital Living Network Alliance (“DLNA”
Originally Posted by http://www.elliptictech.com/en/prod...oftware/dtcp?gclid=CLrH3Y-ptrkCFejm7Aod3HQAEg
There are multiple as yet unannounced PS4 features like DVR ability which is a given since to support ATSC 2.0's NRT (Non Realtime Transmission) a DVR ability is required for guides, NRT movies as well as Java and Javascript GAMES during commercials (Sony patent). Background NRT DVR functionality supports Low power mode RVU playing and that all Codec accelerators and Trustzone are in the PS4 second custom chip.
This ATSC 2.0 bootcamp PDF outlines Non-Realtime-Transmission and it's a huge part of what's coming. Multiple features described as coming for "Own the Living room" Game consoles and Google TV are in this PDF and tie into NRT.
i don't think you can snap live tv while playing a game
If HDCP is on while playing games, you can't directly record it stream it with a capture device. It's not a big deal for most people and there are workarounds, but needing extra hardware is still a pain.
PS3 had component output, so you could still record from that. PS4 is HDMI only.
I always feel like when people say, "WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? WHY WOULD ANYBODY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS?" They haven't bothered reading the discussion.
For games the HDCP is there because of Blu-ray playback, it's not illegal to capture gameplay, therefore allowed to strip the HDCP.
Derpcrawler
Member
Because little xxTimmYxx now have annual CoD game and he want to capture his "360 elite noSkOpE skillz" and hour long videos with pre-puberty mumble during gameplay?
Haven't you noticed how YouTube changed in last 5 years? Now people like PewDiePie are on top, I would never believe if someone told me this 5-6 years ago. Machinima almost completely died out due to endless shitstream of "lets plays", montages and FPS tutorials.
Everybody's way too uptight about this. HDCP DRM is not only necessary, but also effective. When's the last time an HD movie or TV show was pirated? I sure am glad those days of rampant illegal downloads are behind us, and we have systems in place like this that only annoy pirates and do absolutely nothing for legitimate users.
Oh. Fuck. I've got that last part backwards again, haven't I?
Oh. Fuck. I've got that last part backwards again, haven't I?
I will say that Machinima was better before the MW2 bubble when it came to content but, I understand how "dat youtube money" works so it's whatever
BruiserBear
Banned
It's troubling to me that Sony can't just confirm or deny features like this right now. It really makes me think Sony's Playstation firmware teams are still holed up in Japan and answer to no one. They'll tell everyone else at Sony what's up when they're damn well ready.
Devilgunman
Member
Hmmm.... few seconds ago?
Elginer
Member
Yep and over and over again. I really hope that Sony figures out a way for my Elgato to work with this thing.
Brad Grenz
Member
I don't know. Are you morally opposed to using a $20 HDCP stripper?
You can, when chaining it with any device that acts as a HDCP stripper.
If the PS4's recording capabilities can act as a built-in capture card and can transfer your recordings to your PC for editing, then you may end up not having any use for your Hauppage. I do recall their being rumors that the 15 minute limit only applies to the "share" button and that the DVR can be used for much longer periods of time.
The point is that if anyone can easily strip it out, why implement it at all and force legitimate users to pay the $20 for this weird back-alley solution/
iceatcs
Junior Member
No, that 15 mins mean time machine recording. I think it's unlimited when you want to recording present.
It probably isn't SCE's call to make.
There is an active community of Let's Plays and other such people who capture game footage in lengths that exceed 15 minutes, it would be in Sony's good interest to not lock them out with this. LPs can drive sales too, if in small amounts. At the least it shows good will and there isn't much of a downside to -not- using HDCP encryption.
Well ya that's what I meant. Do you have a source on the uncapped recording or just speculating? Because all I've seen so far on it are rumors originating from "anonymous developers" posting on Reddit and Kotaku comments and it's something that I'd like to know more about. Would be especially handy if those recordings can be transferred to your PC for editing.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Speculating, but it won't be unlimited anyway because of data - HDD, etc, and youtube won't take that a lot.
I think youtube is 10 mins limit, so there is it.
Brad Grenz
Member
YouTube's limit has been far longer than that for some time.
I thought we already knew it was a rolling 15 minutes capture, so the last 15 mintues is always there for you to go back over. Sky tv boxes do this in the uk you get the last 30 mins of whatever you were watching on one channel there to rewind pause and play.
shungokusatsu
Member
And they made it clear that things change a lot before retail units roll out. Until it's available on shelves, don't bet on either working out the box with external devices.