A game that demands the amount of text Yakuza does can be a bomb for anyone just because of the amount of money put into just translating it. XSEED similarly operates fine under lower sales, yet this has been a serious problem with Trails in the Sky, the only reason we're seeing SC is because Carpe Fulgur is handling localization and made a strong case for branching out to PC for them.
Sega Sammy confirms that Sega Dream Corporation has fully acquired Index (Atlus)
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Someone posted in the last thread that Yakuza 4 did 20k and Persona 4 did 200k, so is it really accurate for people to be making predictions based on the treatment of Yakuza?
I know you're not saying that yourself, but I'm asking since the comparison keeps coming up.
Sonic's at the point where it's being written in English first and translated to Japanese.
Not really. They bought Atlus for what it is, and I don't see any reason that they'd buy something profitable and gut it just because.
Dracandros
Banned
I've changed my mind a little bit on this situation because it is possible, in the end, that this could be beneficial for the EO franchise as a whole (or for games like Dragon's Crown which I have yet to try).
I still want to see what happens to Atlus USA first and then go from there. If I was going to be truly upset, it would be on the fact that there are so many Wizardry games not translated yet.
I still want to see what happens to Atlus USA first and then go from there. If I was going to be truly upset, it would be on the fact that there are so many Wizardry games not translated yet.
Wouldn't matter; Sega Europe is the boss of their western output. Everything runs through them. They would run the big budge stuff.
Pureauthor
Member
Why would taking their last twenty years be a better gauge than the past two to three years?
You know, the time period that Sega is experiencing an uptick in their fortunes (due to strong presence on PC) and giving their acquired studios a surprisingly free hand while Capcom have been steadily running all their franchises into the ground, and SE have been steadily removing every one of their franchises not named FF, DQ, or KH from their release lists.
And the fate of Atlus USA was always going to be in doubt no matter which of the big companies got them. I'm more concerned with the part of Atlus that makes games actually surviving first and foremost.
Because you're looking at a different aspect of what's profitable, or you're only thinking of the local situation rather than the international one, in this case viewing Atlus mainly as a purchase for the Japanese market without much consideration for outside of that market. They didn't set out to buy Atlus USA specifically afterall.
They flat out bombed, but I think that shows that Yakuza isn't a game that can stand as a full retail title outside of japan, which is fine.
So bake in an english translation at development, don't spend the money for english voice work, put it on PSN, let the word of mouth take care of the marketing and see what it does. At the very least, you'll cover costs for the text localization and you'll still end up with more profit than you did before.
But Sega doesn't seem to think that's worth their time, which is crazy to me. That is (from what I'd assume from other industry jobs i've been associated with) a 10,000 dollar outsource job that can be completed in a few months for a game that has the budget of a couple million. Craft services costs more.
You don't need to pay Micheal Madson's salary to have this game be a success outside of japan.
Except that last few Sonic games have been pretty weel made / fun. Binary domain was awesome as weel as the yakuza series. They have also published some really great games via Platinum. They have been climbing out of the pit.
EA
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Exactly. This is a business, not a petty war. Let's make money together.
Yakuza 4 sold more than that. The first two weeks sales in the US alone came to 22k.
StarCreator
Member
What was the last Yakuza game you've actually played? I'm fairly certain English voiceover work was never attempted past the first game. I also don't see how performing the translation during development would decrease costs; if anything, that's just creating a bottleneck during master production and potentially delaying the game as a whole, which is in itself a cost.
Got a source for that? I find that very hard to believe given P4G is a PS Vita title.
Square Enix is basically the polar opposite of Atlus, and they're declining. Sega has reached the bottom, and now it's coming back up.
StarCreator
Member
I think it's a statement from the other thread, which got indirect supporting evidence from Nirolak.
At best it'd help ensure the game can easily accomodate English, but I don't believe you'd need a concurrent translation to do THAT, just keep in mind English character limits I'd think and make the code easily allow swapping out text. Concurrent localization is useful if you want a near-simultaneous global release, not as a way to save costs.
EA is its own type of special snowflake
Romars202129
Member
Okay. This year, Square released Tomb Raider, Capcom released DmC, and Sega released... what? I'm sorry, but you'll have to tell me, this announcement is the first time I've thought about Sega since they gave up the Bayonetta IP to nintendo because they didn't want to publish it.
To note Persona 4 is the one that did over 200K, not the golden.
It did a lot of that on cheapy budget sales to note. Like in 2009 it was still 130K.
But yeah Yakuza does so badly that P4G (it's not super high but I don't have the number right now) is still quite a bit better.
Edit: Looking at Ani's posts, we're at ~3x Soul Hackers (which was under 30K) for P4G.
And likely operating under very different expectations and corporate culture. Sega, software-wise at least, never was huge in the way EA, Ubisoft, or Activision are, though each of those did climb up over time.
Sega gutted their American staff last year so they are merged with Atlus USA there might not be too many redundancies.
I suspect a lot of these companies are looking at BOTH NA and EU these days when it comes to that: why else gut the NA branch? And it'd explain Tecmo Koei's NA silence, and SE's shift of their NA site to EU (though that has the added angle of the Eidos purchase so they may be given priority to SEE for international stuff, for better or worse.)sörine;82514985 said:
I don't think Tecmo Koei NA exists.
(I'm not sure but I seriously think that)
Though maybe I misread your post. But still!
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
You aren't looking at this in realistic terms. You're confusing Sega the developer with Sega/Sammy the multibillion dollar corporation. What Sega released this year has no bearing on Atlus going forward. Also, Sonic AllStars Racing Transformed released this year and is the shit.
Soul Hackers did that bad? That's a bit disappointing for one of my favorite SMT games.
I'm just going to have to hope that Sega understands that Atlus' fanbase is a niche, and that they lower their sales expectations relative to that.
I believe they exist. As someone to manage distribution.
Beyond that and maybe marketing? No, probably not. For that matter someone could be literal, like just one guy running the show.
DPtheGod
Member
Does Sega's Know-how include killing franchises and limiting them to Japan too?
On a more serious note, I'm curious what synergy do they see between the two.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
vg chartz is bullshit
aggro crag
Member
I kinda feel pretty good about this. Just looking at their PC side, they seem perfectly fine with Creative Assemby, Sports Interactive, and Relic doing their own things.
No clue how Sega has managed buyouts from Japanese developers. But I think Sega would have to be really dumb to carve up Atlus Japan, when they seem to be the one making games that sell well.
No clue how Sega has managed buyouts from Japanese developers. But I think Sega would have to be really dumb to carve up Atlus Japan, when they seem to be the one making games that sell well.
Anarchy Reigns
Company's of Heroes 2
Total War Rome 2
Aliens Colonial Marines
Castle of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse
Hatsune Miku
Late on in 2013:
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Lost World 3DS version
Football Manager 2014
Football Manager 2014 Classic (vita)
Maria & Sonic at the Winter Olympics 2014
Sega has output. Sega still own the Bayonetta IP. Bayonetta is not the property of Nintendo despite them publishing and funding B2.
Pureauthor
Member
Meanwhile, EO4 sold 500K in the US and FFXIV's subs clock in at 2K a month.
See, I can make up bullshit too.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
lol
StarCreator
Member
No offense, but Nirolak states the exact opposite, and I think I trust him more than I trust you.
Man, given how badly they fucked up the end-game, I seriously do wonder how FFXIV's subs will fare next month.
But yeah, don't use chartz.
I'm sure this has been posted before, but yeah Yakuza is a whole different beast from the typical 20-30k Atlus seller like Etrian. First of all, it's worlds larger both to localize the dialogue and test. Bigger games not only cost more to translate, they cost more to test and QA. The cost explodes quickly.
Also, Yakuza may have licensing issues attached to it. Frequently, famous people's likenesses and real stores like Don Quijote and other brands are used in ways that would basically force them to get licenses. I don't know the logistics of it, but it certainly creates a whole different wrinkle to bring over to the west than your typical Atlus product.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but Sega also closed Secret Level, Sega Racing Studio and Creative Assembly Australia. They're not as hands off with their western studios as some imply.
As far as Japan goes Sega used to own stakes in several external developers like Red Co, Access Games and Nex Entertainment, but looking into it it seems like they allowed those companies to buy themselves back out before the Sammy merger. The only Japanese developer they may have some investment in now is Yuji Naka's Prope, but even that is rather unclear.
The last one I played was 2. And I'm not saying it would decrease costs, i'm saying it would be a cost that, when compared to the rest of the project, is negligible and allows the game to be sold digitally in other regions with the least risk possible. Yakuza 4 was still a game who's distribution model was still predominately retail, the digital version taking far longer to come out than the pressed disc version, and I'm sure that the cost of releasing that game on disc in north america far outweighed the cost to build in english translation. With this stuff that's considered niche, now more than ever, developers and publishers have to depend on a digital only strategy to eek out the maximum amount of money on each project. Not releasing your games in other regions because it doesn't do well with the general video game playing market doesn't make sense when your audience would be more than happy to simply download your game via PSN or XBLA or Steam. Sega, or rather Sega of Japan, doesn't understand this yet, which is why so many projects end up just on the cutting room floor after a quiet Japanese release. It's old thinking that isn't going to be able to stand in this new generation, especially now that its (supposedly) easier than ever to put these games on these digital marketplaces for, in a lot of cases, next to nothing.
So like I said, forgo the american celebrity voice acting fanfare, spend money only on translation that makes the game understandable in story and gameplay, release the game digitally only outside of japan, and reap as much benefit from the rest of the world as you can without spending your budget on physical elements. It's a worldwide market now, hiding in your region isn't going make your company grow.
Elfforkusu
Member
Hard to feel too optimistic about this considering the fate of Sega WoW and Valkyria Chronicles...
Well, SMT and Etrian Odyssey had a good run at least.
Well, SMT and Etrian Odyssey had a good run at least.
Maybe you weren't paying attention to the sale. Here is a report of another company that was in the running:
J Trust Co. (8508), the Japanese financial services firm 5 percent owned by Goldman Sachs Group Inc., aims to use cash raised through a record rights offering to fund takeover bids, including bankrupt game maker Index (TPX) Corp.
Its a good idea to buy companies that do communication and application businesses for smartphones and tap their client bases to market our financial services, Fujisawa said on Aug. 5, citing the successes of online retailer Rakuten Inc. (4755) and Yahoo Japan Corp. They started as providers of Internet services and grew bigger by attracting existing customers into their financial businesses.
I've covered this before, a potential real worst case scenario could be Sega leaving them alone for Japan but shuttering Atlus USA and failing to localize anything beyond the very biggest (read: Persona) anyway. Granted, for people who just want Persona 5 this IS more than good enough, but it'd mean the stuff stays there without any reason for the staff to leave, form new companies, and get stuff put out that way.
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