Reading through Raymond Chen's blog, I've been left with the impression they jump through a lot of hoops to keep old programs working on new versions of Windows. For example:
Joel Spolsky said:
Valve announces SteamOS
- Thread starter PartTimeWarrior
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Reading through Raymond Chen's blog, I've been left with the impression they jump through a lot of hoops to keep old programs working on new versions of Windows. For example:
KojiKnight
Member
Nostalgic glasses or intentionally being misleading? Most DOS software did NOT play well with windows at all. Sound issues were the most common. Second to heavily broken color palletes. Then there was a wide swash of games that just plain didn't work, worked but randomly crashed, etc.
The "correct" way to play DOS games was to reboot your PC into DOS mode, and even then many of them played incorrectly since Windows required a higher version of DOS than most games were designed for.
That said, rebooting to DOS to play games would be technically on-par with dual booting... so I think you're round about agreeing that it wouldn't be a big issue
Yeah, the Microsoft login page is account.live.com, which gives me this when I go to log in using the correct password:
and they refuse to send the reset email to the correct email address because they say the account contains personal private data that they're unwilling to access for any reason. Not personal private data that they're unwilling to send to me without further ID verification. Personal private data that they're not letting themselves look at. As if they don't already have that information or something.
They said all I can do is talk to Dell.
I'm reading up on Linux Mint right now.
Wiktor
Member
So bassicaly it has ZERO chances of ever becoming truly popular OS among pcgamers?! Makes sense I guess.
So much for all the "screw Windows. Welcome our new overlords!" cheers in this thread.
The display and the CPU/GPU/RAM become outdated at entirely different rates. Coupling the two together just so you don't have to run a cable from one to the other is a terrible idea.
Over time, this could displace the console... Stars aligning, multiple years and all that.
- It's taking care of backwards compatibility with Windows and my steam catalog by streaming. (to my already existing, broken screen laptop psuedo HTPC)
- It sounds like it's going to offer things like Spotify/Netflix/Hulu (see what services they do offer)
- Steambox's could hit the console level prices.
- Going forward, it's unlikely Valve will break backwards compatibility in the way consoles do.
- No stupid pay to play online bullshit that both Sony and MS do now.
Yeah, I'm being overly optimistic but I'm jumping in with both feet. =)
- It's taking care of backwards compatibility with Windows and my steam catalog by streaming. (to my already existing, broken screen laptop psuedo HTPC)
- It sounds like it's going to offer things like Spotify/Netflix/Hulu (see what services they do offer)
- Steambox's could hit the console level prices.
- Going forward, it's unlikely Valve will break backwards compatibility in the way consoles do.
- No stupid pay to play online bullshit that both Sony and MS do now.
Yeah, I'm being overly optimistic but I'm jumping in with both feet. =)
Until Valve opens the Steam API for anyone that wants to create a Steam program, as Gabe talked about in an earlier interview: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ore_choice_more_democracy_less_Greenlight.php
Ah, what do I know. It sure would be great to get away from Microsoft, though. Maybe in a few years.
I am very intruiged, as the only reason i dont use steam atm is because my laptop isnt really for gaming (I used to have a killer rig in the day and used steam all the time)
"running on any living room machine,"
what does this mean? like REALLY, what does it mean?
ANY machine?
My ps4?
"running on any living room machine,"
what does this mean? like REALLY, what does it mean?
ANY machine?
My ps4?
GravityMan
Member
I have a feeling that a lot of confusion in this thread will be cleared up after Valve reveals their 2nd and 3rd announcements on Wednesday and (presumably) Friday. Likely including the unveiling of Steambox itself, and their plans for involving the community in shaping Steam's future. By then we should have a clearer picture of Valve's overall vision and direction here. Hopefully Gabe and others at Valve will make themselves available for interviews in the near future to further clarify some things.
I suspect Valve has three main goals here:
- Make further inroads into integrating PC gaming into the living room, obviously...and entice the "living room" audience, while still retaining most of the advantages of PC (mods, openness, etc.) BPM was a clear first step in that direction. However, there is still a belief among many people that PC gaming is some crazy expensive uber-complicated mess that requires editing hex values in some obscure file to get a game to run. There is still a lingering psychological barrier that needs to be overcome.
- Expand the Steam userbase by getting more people onto it. After all this is where Valve makes its money. I don't think Valve really cares how you access Steam...be it SteamOS, Windows, OSX, a monstrous Windows desktop running dual GTX Titans, a mid-range HTPC, a laptop, a Steambox from Valve themselves or one of their HW partners. As long as you're on STEAM. SteamOS (and Steambox) is just another option aimed at certain niche markets. Those of you who are struggling to see the point and the appeal of SteamOS...you're not seeing the forest from the trees. If you already have a Windows living-room HTPC for BPM, then SteamOS isn't for you. If you already have a decent desktop PC in your study and are uninterested in streaming to another room, then SteamOS probably isn't for you. If you're looking to get into PC gaming or upgrade your ancient hardware then a Steambox may be viable option if the specs and price are good.
- Further diversify what OSes Steam can run on, to try and protect itself and the openness of PC gaming from the possibility of Windows someday going fully walled garden (which I doubt will happen even if that's what MS wants). This is more of a long term strategy; it will likely take years to pay dividends. SteamOS may be their primary focus, but Valve isn't going to stop supporting Windows and Mac.
I am eager to learn about Valve's controller and about these "many" AAA game announcements for SteamOS. I've always felt that Valve's biggest challenge will be convincing large devs to natively support SteamOS and OpenGL...it looks like they may have had some success here.
SteamOS isn't for everyone, and for most people it may be lacking in short-term and/or immediate tangible advantages (as opposed to long term), but I think this is a good move by Valve.
I still wish they'd spend some time overhauling and optimizing the current Steam client, though.
I suspect Valve has three main goals here:
- Make further inroads into integrating PC gaming into the living room, obviously...and entice the "living room" audience, while still retaining most of the advantages of PC (mods, openness, etc.) BPM was a clear first step in that direction. However, there is still a belief among many people that PC gaming is some crazy expensive uber-complicated mess that requires editing hex values in some obscure file to get a game to run. There is still a lingering psychological barrier that needs to be overcome.
- Expand the Steam userbase by getting more people onto it. After all this is where Valve makes its money. I don't think Valve really cares how you access Steam...be it SteamOS, Windows, OSX, a monstrous Windows desktop running dual GTX Titans, a mid-range HTPC, a laptop, a Steambox from Valve themselves or one of their HW partners. As long as you're on STEAM. SteamOS (and Steambox) is just another option aimed at certain niche markets. Those of you who are struggling to see the point and the appeal of SteamOS...you're not seeing the forest from the trees. If you already have a Windows living-room HTPC for BPM, then SteamOS isn't for you. If you already have a decent desktop PC in your study and are uninterested in streaming to another room, then SteamOS probably isn't for you. If you're looking to get into PC gaming or upgrade your ancient hardware then a Steambox may be viable option if the specs and price are good.
- Further diversify what OSes Steam can run on, to try and protect itself and the openness of PC gaming from the possibility of Windows someday going fully walled garden (which I doubt will happen even if that's what MS wants). This is more of a long term strategy; it will likely take years to pay dividends. SteamOS may be their primary focus, but Valve isn't going to stop supporting Windows and Mac.
I am eager to learn about Valve's controller and about these "many" AAA game announcements for SteamOS. I've always felt that Valve's biggest challenge will be convincing large devs to natively support SteamOS and OpenGL...it looks like they may have had some success here.
SteamOS isn't for everyone, and for most people it may be lacking in short-term and/or immediate tangible advantages (as opposed to long term), but I think this is a good move by Valve.
I still wish they'd spend some time overhauling and optimizing the current Steam client, though.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
More of a PC supplement (for streaming, light gaming, movies) that also pushes Linux as a viable alternative to Windows, if Microsoft goes crazy enough to force that to occur. And a place for Valve to throw ideas, which I'm sure they have plenty.
I would not say that SteamOS is poised to overtake the Windows megathrone, no. But I think many of those posts are joking.
KojiKnight
Member
I think the goal of a TV with steam app would be strictly for it's streaming capability, not as a PC replacement.
Wiktor
Member
It would still need some non-Steam interface. Steam is nice game launcher, but imagine trying to use any non-gaming software on it. Or how akward would it be to launch Origin or Battle.net through Steam when people already are whining about stuff like uPlay games on Steam.
If Steam OS wants to compete with Windows it needs full blown desktop enviorement.
That said, I doubt Valve is capable of that. I think SteamOS is mostly aimed at converting console gamers to Steam, not converting existing Steam users to SteamOS, as there's really no real point in Windows user to switch.
Wiktor
Member
You really think all this functionality won't also be avaible in Windows Steam?
But how many years before this is a viable replacement for the hundreds of thousands of current Windows based games? Some people like their current legacy library of playable games on their windows platform, and it's going to be years before this is a valid replacement for those gamers.
I wouldn't be so sure. Many many people with gaming PCs don't use them for anything other than games. Steam represents 90% of my PC gaming library and games represent 100% of my gaming PC's purpose.
If I could play most of my game library by running something like a nicer version of big picture mode? Sign me up. No more windows would be great.
Additionally if this takes off it'll encourage couch-play-friendly resolutions and UI scaling. Way too many mouse and keyboard games assume that the game is played two inches from the screen
Yeah, we absolutely need more focus on UI scaling. Games that don't account for it already have microscopic UIs at 2560x1600 so I don't even want to think about 4K.
<3 UI scale sliders <3
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
What?
This OS is not designed to be a viable replacement for Windows, from my point of view.
I see it as sort of like VitaTV is to PS4. You use it to watch movies or Netflix, stream games from the other system, play a few games on it. A supplement only. This is what I expect the Steambox to be.
I expect Valve to say this much: If you want a replacement for Windows, go download Ubuntu and install Steam on that. You'll get the full desktop and applications with the better performance and drivers of the SteamOS, which are all getting ported back to Ubuntu. But if you want a smaller computer in your house for streaming and light gaming, use SteamOS.
At the very least, a SteamBox could be as cheap as a raspberry pi or a chromecast. This would handle streaming from your main gaming rig. A console on every tv in the house and potentially streamed across the net to your beach house (why not...)
Meanwhile, next time you need a new gaming pc, you might try dual booting. That part seems iffy, most people dont want to screw with that and are invested in windows or mac.
Meanwhile, next time you need a new gaming pc, you might try dual booting. That part seems iffy, most people dont want to screw with that and are invested in windows or mac.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I am very intruiged, as the only reason i dont use steam atm is because my laptop isnt really for gaming (I used to have a killer rig in the day and used steam all the time)
"running on any living room machine,"
what does this mean? like REALLY, what does it mean?
ANY machine?
My ps4?
You would have to jailbreak it, I suppose. A machine's a machine.
Wiktor
Member
League of Legends on it's own is almost as big as whole Steam. How many pcgamers will ever want to switch to a platform without LoL? Without any EA games? Without Blizzard titles? Without most casual games? Without browser titles? Without most F2P games? One that doesn't support most of the games they buy in boxes?
Sure, there are some truly hardcore Valve fanboys that only play Steam games. But they are a minority among Steam users. And Steam users themselves are minority among pcgamers.
Also..I don't think anyone with gaming PC uses is just for gaming. Even the biggest gamers still uses email, chat programs, bitrorrents, music players etc.
That would actually be quite sensible, as the processing power required for receiving the streaming feed is directly tied to the quality of the display. If it's for streaming, that sounds like a really cool idea to me.
Wiktor
Member
What I mean is why use Steam OS when everything it offfers will be avaible with Steam on Windows plus a lot more that Steam OS won't offer?
Unless the thing really isn't intended to be used on PCs and instead is mostly designed to facilitate streaming to TV.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Because if you buy a little HTPC, you can just install SteamOS on it instead of buying Windows just to access those Steam for Windows features.
How many times do I have to use the word "supplement" before you understand what I'm typing? Am I wasting my time? This isn't something you use on your big powerful gaming rig.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Some have suggested that valve's controller may be a padlet akin to the Wii U controller.
Wiktor
Member
Seems pretty crappy idea. To have such crippled HTPC solely to save couple bucks on Windows license.
TV replacement rates are actually about on par with console lifecycles. On average people replace sets every 6 years.
Low end: $35, streaming only
Mid: $200, play low end games that get compatible AND streaming
High: $1000 and up, play HL3 AND streaming
NoPiece
Member
Not only is Linux easy to install, it is very easily run from bootable DVD or USB stick. Valve should buy a few hundred thousand 4GB usb sticks, install SteamOS on them, and hand them out at every gamer event. Make it boot into in SteamOS, and mount and find any existing Steam installs.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
You don't need a ful fledged package manage with dependency tracking and stuff if there's only a single, universal configuration. And it would make more sense to implement configuration directly into Steam instead of using stand alone frontends. More consistent, better user experience.
The thing is called SteamOS, not Steam Linux. I expect a single purpose system that never actually exposes the underlying OS. Anything else would be redundant. Want Steam on your general purpose distro of choice? Install your preferred distro, install Steam, done.t
ChiefofCitadelSecurity
Member
Valve wants to get away from daddy Windows before he does something stupid. lol
I really just wanna see the box and controller.
The "better" and "best" versions are what I'm interested in seeing.
I really just wanna see the box and controller.
The "better" and "best" versions are what I'm interested in seeing.
It's intended for HTPCs. It even says so on the website ("a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines."). It's not meant to be a desktop operating system and Windows sucks for HTPCs. Also, SteamOS is free, potentially faster and apparently/ probably designed for the big screen (full controller support, large fonts, doesn't require mouse and keyboard).
BRocknRolla
Member
Tentatively very excited about this, and further excited about additional announcements. Really hope Valve has some magic planned.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Serving updates:
1) Make own updater, package and administer updates: lots of up-front development hours, plus extra man hours for packaging up each update by hand and supporting the update tool.
2) Use apt-get: no dev time, and minimal man hours for packaging up only Valve-changed updates using well defined, stable tools used by industry professionals for decades.
Configuration tools:
1) Write them into Steam yourself: lots of development hours and support.
2) Use a small window manager and throw in already existing open source software: several hours of configuration.
From a business or development standpoint, nothing you're saying makes any sense.
Most people won't be able to tell SteamOS is Linux. That doesn't mean that SteamOS will entirely forgo the things that make it easier on Valve to administer! Why would I purposefully make an OS that was harder to develop and support when someone has already done the work for me?
There's going to have to be some sort of desktop right? If Steam sells 3d modeling programs and whatnot I'd have a hard time seeing them try to hide folders/files all behind some slick menus. I'd really love if this could be used as a regular linux distro(libre office and such) while also having the gaming benefits and steam integration.
Heck, they could do it like windows 8 where you have a "desktop app" for more work type applications. Really excited to see what their plans are.
Heck, they could do it like windows 8 where you have a "desktop app" for more work type applications. Really excited to see what their plans are.
A HTPC: Home Theater Personal Computer. What I use to write this post. A small and quiet PC in your living room, connected to your TV, meant exclusively for games, media and surfing the web.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
I have a nice HTPC that does XBMC and games 99% of the time. The other 1 % is using chrome to download drivers. It runs Win8 but if you crippled it so it only did games and streaming video, I would not know.
It doesn't matter what they use. They can use apt-get, Portage, Pacman or whatever, but just simple xz archives are enough, and even less work.
When it comes to configuration, there's actually very little to configure. Country and language settings, screen resolution and network settings, and that's pretty much it. Integrating that stuff is almost certainly less work than maintaining even a minimal window manager, interface library and the actual stand alone frontends. Plus, if this is truly meant for HTPCs and eventually a real Steam Box, it should be possible to setup and control everything without mouse and keyboard, and everything should be as consistent and convenient as humanly possible. That would help its acceptance and increase its chances to succeed, and therefore makes a ton of sense from a business standpoint.
I see a few arguments about competing with MS/Windows - I really don't see SteamOS as intending to anything of the sort, for it would defeat the purpose of its existance, which is a backlash against windows 8's appstore (as ironic as it is that valve is building what is effectively their own walled garden) and to have a dedicated gaming OS/platform for PC gaming without all the overhead Windows and such requires for all its functions, of which gaming is a very, very small part of it. At most it'll probably have some media apps like music and video streaming along with a web browser, which can be used for netflix, hulu, facebook, and all of the things that consoles have to build a dedicated app for, lacking the requisite controls for efficient use of web versions. Anything more would be possible for the user to do on their own, because linux is not a closed system, but not specifically sanctioned by Valve.
greendomo's ghost
Member
So Wednesday they announce the steam box, and Friday they announce the deal with Occulus Rift. Every steam box comes with a rift and HL3 installed. To be released in October. Then the world ends on Saturday.
hooijdonk17
Member
What exactly will SteamOS do for me that XBMCbuntu does not?
I'm going to wait until all three announcements are made before I have any finalized thoughts.
What would be crippled, exactly?
What would be crippled, exactly?
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