Valve announces SteamOS
- Thread starter PartTimeWarrior
- Start date
- Status
How is this? Stop with the false equivalence or get out. Your statement was ridiculous as the two are not even remotely comparable.
This is a pretty big move and it seems like it could be hard to pull off so who knows.
This is just... the best bad graph of all time.
Ya, that graph is horrible. Whoever made it really screwed up, but that isn't the point of the slide.
i don't need to name 3 things I will name one: Releasing Half-Life as episodes. That being said there is no way Windows will be going anywhere as a gaming platform.
Vestal
Junior Member
Never said it was? Valve having issues with game release schedules has very little to do with the possible success of a platform. If anything they've proved that they CAN make a platform extremely successful with Steam.
The episodic structure was a failure and they admitted it and have done very little wrong since. People are just caught up on it because Half-Life is an amazing series.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Maybe one of these posts you'll actually make an actual point as opposed to just using popular "argument" phrases and pointless sniping.
Not yet. I'm looking forward to when we find out info like that.
"We've been told that"
Oh, okay. (Not to mention how little I trust OMGUbuntu for information like this, seriously.)
This has widespread implications a generation from now, but the pure legacy support of Windows will be tough to beat for a long time. PC gamers will have to have some sort of dual boot to make it a complete gaming system for a while.
Isn't part of the appeal of PC gaming in the fact that you can just upgrade to beefier parts on the computer you would already normally have in your regular life for Internet, email, office, iTunes, etc? And saying "just get a Mac for that other stuff" once again brings it back to requiring the ownership of two sets of hardware where Microsoft's decades long advantage has been hosting THE OS for productivity as well as gaming which only necessitates one monetary hardware purchase to accomplish both tasks.
I guess there are Linux workarounds for all that stuff for people in the know, but I like that my PC I would have already owned for my life can also be a gaming box.
They would have to prove that it can totally replace your regular home PC for those types of PC gamers.
Isn't part of the appeal of PC gaming in the fact that you can just upgrade to beefier parts on the computer you would already normally have in your regular life for Internet, email, office, iTunes, etc? And saying "just get a Mac for that other stuff" once again brings it back to requiring the ownership of two sets of hardware where Microsoft's decades long advantage has been hosting THE OS for productivity as well as gaming which only necessitates one monetary hardware purchase to accomplish both tasks.
I guess there are Linux workarounds for all that stuff for people in the know, but I like that my PC I would have already owned for my life can also be a gaming box.
They would have to prove that it can totally replace your regular home PC for those types of PC gamers.
So who made the 300 games already available for linix steam?
sales on windows pc's are not anything to write home about. it
will take time for the steamos userbase to grow from zero, much like the ps4/xbone start at zero.
Steam Linux right now recommends that version of Unbuntu and there are records of that version in the registry under 'home test' depot.
That is the only evidence to go by right now.
Are you kidding?
2K made a quarter of their total profits off of the windows platform last year alone.
Decently popular indie games seem to be selling 1 million copies left and right.
Kickstarter popularity is exploding, with the majority of projects being focused on the PC.
windows isnt all gui based either
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Not enough information to go off to make any conclusion at all.
I mean, I would probably say an old version of Ubuntu is the most likely (Ubuntu version numbers are year.month) but similarities in distros could mean they've moved over to Debian or Mint since the launch of Steam on Linux.
I struggle to think of a universe in which Valve releases an OS that requires any terminal use. What an audience misfire that would be. Then again, a week ago I would have said I struggle to think of a universe in which Valve releases an OS. So.
mhayze
Member
I know what you mean, but it's a logarithmic scale (more accurately a log10 scale). It's more commonly used in academic circles than you would think to show widely dispersed distributions without having a vast amount of empty space in a graph, with the lower distributions being right on top of each other. In this example, a linear graph would have made the linux and mac shares look identical, not illustrating the accelerating trend on Linux compared to Mac.
It does have an implicit expectation of a 'graph knowledge' which makes it ill-suited for consumer-focused graphs. The real travesty is the use of non-zero-based graphs by some companies, like AMD and nVidia use regularly - i.e. showing an improvement from 30fps to 34 fps as if it was a 100% improvement. Whoever made those should be sho.. severely reprimanded.
(here's an article on it - link)
Sentenza
Member
Hum, what the hell are you babbling about?
hikarutilmitt
Member
It's very likely Ubuntu, forking to cover its own needs and fixing some of the dumb crap Ubuntu has done, ala Mint. Mint is based on Ubuntu which is based on Debian, after all, so it would be package compatible either way.
Or they could have lost their minds (or become more sane, if you ask me...) and gone with something more stable, performing and secure like Slackware, CentOS or Arch, which are all helpfully, (fairly) package compatible as well.
Um for gaming yes it is.
They didn't modify the OS, but since it's open, you have much better insight what happens behind the scenes and can therefore optimize better. Also, Linux simply performs better than Windows in many cases thanks to its superior memory management and file systems, as well as its ability to use different schedulers designed for different workloads. It's not a monolithic "one size fits all" product. It's extremely modular and can be tailored to and optimized for almost any need.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Agreed. I'm just saying it's potentially possible and that those particular pieces of information do not confirm OMGUbuntu's shoddy reporting in any way.
I wonder if Valve's looking at Canonical going insane and saying, "hmmm, maybe a better base would suit us," which is why Debian stands out to be as a candidate. But they could have a lot of different priorities depending on what else they announce this week, so who knows.
Arch would be insane. I can't see them on a rolling distro; but then that makes me wonder how they'll roll out updates. Slackware would be funny (the Church of the Subgenius would have a field day) but I don't see much benefit over Debian. CentOS would actually be a really sane and good choice.
davonaytor
Member
This is pretty fantastic. I've never wanted to put any sort of desktop in my living room, but I really like gaming on the couch in the evening. This way I can play any of my PC games on my couch with perfect save file synchronization, voice chat with all my Steam friends (none of my friends play on consoles), and awesome backwards compatibility.
I guess this means if I upgrade a Steambox I won't lose compatibility of my older games like a console.
I guess this means if I upgrade a Steambox I won't lose compatibility of my older games like a console.
Vestal
Junior Member
Sure if you strip down components and tailor it to a specific task/hardware you will see a performance gain. However to compete with Windows you need it to also perform general computing tasks, which are not simply tailored to a GameOS, as well as widen your support for hardware, etc etc.. There comes the problems and quirks of running a Linux based OS.
Like a few others in here, it seems he thinks the SteamOS is ONLY for streaming and nothing else.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I want to like this announcement.. but I can't.
My W8 machine works just fine, and will for many a years... I have zero want to switch OS for any reason whatsoever.
I'm curious to see how well this does, but I kind of hope it fails and Valve works on something I'd actually give a shit.. which is something other than SteamOS or SteamBox... (hint hint L4D3, HL3, some new IP.. you know.. games).
My W8 machine works just fine, and will for many a years... I have zero want to switch OS for any reason whatsoever.
I'm curious to see how well this does, but I kind of hope it fails and Valve works on something I'd actually give a shit.. which is something other than SteamOS or SteamBox... (hint hint L4D3, HL3, some new IP.. you know.. games).
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
This doesn't seem to be competing with Windows. Certainly not as a Desktop OS like Windows is. It's just for games and media. So, no, it does not need to do general computing tasks.
And the problems and quirks of running a Linux based OS are no more problematic as Windows' problems and quirks are. But if you make it just for games, you can make the system smooth and essentially "console-like."
Vestal
Junior Member
Ok I understand this point. But it will be extremely hard to get any sort of install base which means lack of 3rd Party support on the PC side. If it wont be able to replace Windows as an Operating system, then it is limited to a niche market which is willing to dualboot just cause they can, or willing to cut the cord entirely with Windows.
So after that you are left with steamboxes. Depending on the price they may be worth it, however they will be competing with consoles and their own offerings.
Is it possible for them to start from the base Linux instead of working off another distro?
I don't get it? I can do that by bringing down my laptop and doing the same thing but without worry about environment interference(I roll with gaming laptop). Hell, any TV with a wireless card built-in can stream from the PC without buying a Steambox. Valve, you have to give me more than just that. I see the potential, but I don't see why I should buy another device, when my PC can do that for me.
I'm not talking about stripping things down. Also, gaming and those "general tasks" you're probably talking about are generally the same workload and well served by the same or a very similar configuration. Running a server for example would be a different workload.
And that's the thing: While Linux in general is an excellent server OS, SteamOS doesn't need to be, so it's possible to use a scheduler like BFS (Brain Fuck) which is excellent for both games and desktop use in general, but not so much for servers. Windows on the other hand, being a one size fits all product, is always full of tradeoffs and compromises.
funkystudent
Member
Would have been nice to actually show the OS in some form.
I guess this will be like BPM. Announced but its going dark for the next 18+ months.
I guess this will be like BPM. Announced but its going dark for the next 18+ months.
Vestal
Junior Member
Negative.
The games that are streamed are rendered locally on your PC, the video is streamed to your SteamOS.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
It's true that as it is, the SteamOS may not entirely pick up speed right away. But Valve has proven in the past that they are willing to support their own ideas in the long term, with new features and ideas to entice users.
And depending on the way that this OS is handled, it could require very little development on Valve's side past this initial push, so it could just be something they're throwing out there to expand the market that Steam can reach, even if it's tiny. It could effectively sustain itself with only a few developers handling things, sitting and gaining traction, staying as an alternative in case Microsoft does even more dumb things with Windows.
I still have a lot of questions, but I see a lot of potential uses.
Way too much work for the size of Valve, with very few reasons for doing so. They'd have to reinvent a hell of a lot of stuff.
Vestal
Junior Member
Personally I am unsure who they are targeting this feature towards. PC Gamers are not ones to take performance hits lightly, and non pc gamers don't really have machines that could run games well enough to stream over a network.
While we're talking about Microsoft and operating systems, I'm going to take a minute and vent about stupid infuriating Microsoft bullshit.
So my dad got a new laptop tonight with Windows 8, and made a typo when he was setting it up. Typed @ol.com instead of @aol.com when setting up his user account that he needs to verify online before he can use any of the Metro stuff, because just setting up a name with no password is apparently beyond Microsoft. This, of course, fucked him. So he's having trouble fixing it and gets me to do it. I figure out how to create a local account that doesn't need to be verified on the Internet, but before I can do that I need to enter the password for the fucked up account he just made, because why should anyone be able to use their computer without checking in with Microsoft, right?. So I enter his usual password. Incorrect. I enter a password he used to use. Wrong again. I try the first one again in case of a typo, and it's wrong again. I go off and find him, get the new password from him (which the computer told him he needed because apparently his regular password wasn't strong enough for the laptop sitting in his fucking office at home), and I put that one in. Nope, still incorrect. Do it a couple more times just to make sure. No dice.
I get out of Metro and get online via the desktop, figure out how to reset the password, go to do so on the Microsoft site, and it tells me that the account is locked because I entered the wrong password too many times, but I can unlock it by resetting the account via it's email address. Which doesn't exist because of the typo that started all of this. I say whatever dad, just don't use Metro and you can get your email just fine through the browser like you've always done. Except we leave the computer alone for 5 minutes and it goes to sleep, and when we come back we need to log into the busted account to get on to the computer at all, and that account is completely locked from even logging on. After an hour and a half of customer support, I find out that Microsoft refuses to unlock the account or send the email to the proper account, and my only option is to reinstall the operating system with a boot disc that I don't have because the OS came pre-installed.
So, because he incorrectly entered his email and I entered the wrong password, the computer is effectively useless. Microsoft permanently locked the only account to get on a brand new computer until the password is reset on an email account that doesn't exist, and now I have to pray for Dell customer service to have a dream solution tomorrow, which will probably take 4 hours of my day if it exists at all. Thank god for the fucking cloud protecting us all.
To bring it back to the subject on hand, I'm ready to install SteamOS onto every computer I ever see for the rest of my life as long as it has a web browser and doesn't go out of it's way to personally ruin my life.
So my dad got a new laptop tonight with Windows 8, and made a typo when he was setting it up. Typed @ol.com instead of @aol.com when setting up his user account that he needs to verify online before he can use any of the Metro stuff, because just setting up a name with no password is apparently beyond Microsoft. This, of course, fucked him. So he's having trouble fixing it and gets me to do it. I figure out how to create a local account that doesn't need to be verified on the Internet, but before I can do that I need to enter the password for the fucked up account he just made, because why should anyone be able to use their computer without checking in with Microsoft, right?. So I enter his usual password. Incorrect. I enter a password he used to use. Wrong again. I try the first one again in case of a typo, and it's wrong again. I go off and find him, get the new password from him (which the computer told him he needed because apparently his regular password wasn't strong enough for the laptop sitting in his fucking office at home), and I put that one in. Nope, still incorrect. Do it a couple more times just to make sure. No dice.
I get out of Metro and get online via the desktop, figure out how to reset the password, go to do so on the Microsoft site, and it tells me that the account is locked because I entered the wrong password too many times, but I can unlock it by resetting the account via it's email address. Which doesn't exist because of the typo that started all of this. I say whatever dad, just don't use Metro and you can get your email just fine through the browser like you've always done. Except we leave the computer alone for 5 minutes and it goes to sleep, and when we come back we need to log into the busted account to get on to the computer at all, and that account is completely locked from even logging on. After an hour and a half of customer support, I find out that Microsoft refuses to unlock the account or send the email to the proper account, and my only option is to reinstall the operating system with a boot disc that I don't have because the OS came pre-installed.
So, because he incorrectly entered his email and I entered the wrong password, the computer is effectively useless. Microsoft permanently locked the only account to get on a brand new computer until the password is reset on an email account that doesn't exist, and now I have to pray for Dell customer service to have a dream solution tomorrow, which will probably take 4 hours of my day if it exists at all. Thank god for the fucking cloud protecting us all.
To bring it back to the subject on hand, I'm ready to install SteamOS onto every computer I ever see for the rest of my life as long as it has a web browser and doesn't go out of it's way to personally ruin my life.
Yeah, but the reason they would not be basing SteamOS on Android is because
1. Lots of Android runs in a Java VM and their is not much point in doing that with a desktop OS
2. Graphics drivers for Android use the EGL interface, not a huge amount of support for it in the closed source drivers for desktop cards yet (Wayland and Mir use it and thus it will come one day).
3. The standard desktop Linux userland is better suited to what they want to do than Android's userland.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
It really is interesting how dead on Nintendo was trend-wise with the Wii-U.
Streaming games and display agnostic machines are clearly what every company is pushing.. I do question the demand though. I have my PC hooked up to a 42in tv and LONG for a 24 in gaming monitor.
Streaming games and display agnostic machines are clearly what every company is pushing.. I do question the demand though. I have my PC hooked up to a 42in tv and LONG for a 24 in gaming monitor.
Beautifully Shaped Monsters
Member
Can anyone see Sony bringing Vita TV functionality to SteamOS, since they are not (for now) bringing out Vita TV outside Japan?
How will this work? For starters, won't they need to develop and update drivers for the various kinds of graphic and sound cards and chipsets, as well as create their own programming and video API like Windows Direct X?
Windows had the benefit of gradually evolving along with the market and being developed by a multi billion dollar company -- is it possible for Valve to make an equivalent to Windows for gaming? Get anywhere near the same level of efficiency, ease of use, etc?
Windows had the benefit of gradually evolving along with the market and being developed by a multi billion dollar company -- is it possible for Valve to make an equivalent to Windows for gaming? Get anywhere near the same level of efficiency, ease of use, etc?
Show what exactly? Start Steam, enable Big Picture -> that's what SteamOS looks like. I would imagine they don't even run a desktop environment in the background, just Steam for Linux directly on X or Wayland or something.
Syphon Filter
Member
isnt it targeted to the people who use BPM?
Doubtful. Gaikai streaming service is a possibility though. I will note though that VitaTV is being released in non Japan asia in January.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked