Valve enters the console wars [The Verge]

MisterXDTV said:
How do people keep saying this is an affordable device when they refused to announce the price, it's beyond me :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Affordable based on what? Your dreams?
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It's supposedly occupying the spot of a low end PC, from Valve themselves. Announced specs tell us the performance picture. It's not going to be a high end/premium device like supposedly the next Xbox console.
 
Gameplay Gods Bless said:
RISCV is coming for both their heads but it needs more working out the kinks. 10-15 years ARM is going to be in trouble.
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EX_PegGWkAEQudB


That movie was from 30 years ago. My x64 PC still has its head. While most mainframe are all Intel or AMD nowadays.
 
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reinking said:
You can upgrade ram and SSD. You can install another OS on it. It is a PC.
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No, it's a console. A more open, more flexible console, with many of the advantages of PCs (some hw upgrades, different types of use with Linux), but it's a console for the simple reason that developers have a common base from which to build; they don't have dozens and dozens of different CPUs, graphics cards, and RAM to consider. It's a very specific and precise development environment, like consoles. Therefore, it's a console.
 
KyoZz said:
But I've been told here that if it can run programs then it's a PC?
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The exactly same programs and emulators?? Or they need to be coded/changed to work in that console?? Afaik, the emulators on Series consoles are very different than the PC emulators. You can't just download Ryujinx and double click on it on Series and it will work the same....
KyoZz said:
The conveniency, the size, the fact that everything is updating in background, the fixed HW etc etc... all of those things are made to get closer to a console experience.
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The same convenience and updates in background also happens the exactly same way in other Arch Linux distros. Size, there are mini PCs, giant PCs cases as there are mini consoles (Snes mini) and giant consoles, (PS5). Fixed hardware on a PC changes nothing as the OSs will be the exactly same with just aditional drivers for that unique parts. The APIs and games will perform nealy the same jusdt as other Arch distros.
 
Maogp said:
No, it's a console. A more open, more flexible console, with many of the advantages of PCs (some hw upgrades, different types of use with Linux), but it's a console for the simple reason that developers have a common base from which to build; they don't have dozens and dozens of different CPUs, graphics cards, and RAM to consider. It's a very specific and precise development environment, like consoles. Therefore, it's a console.
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Beside the fact that Valve are calling it a PC, it's not a console.

Games consoles are closed systems designed to play games and watch media.

I can't code on a console, write a document, edit videos, create a spreadsheet, install a new OS etc.

By your definition a Mac is also a console because you can't really upgrade the hardware.
 
Maogp said:
No, it's a console. A more open, more flexible console, with many of the advantages of PCs (some hw upgrades, different types of use with Linux), but it's a console for the simple reason that developers have a common base from which to build; they don't have dozens and dozens of different CPUs, graphics cards, and RAM to consider. It's a very specific and precise development environment, like consoles. Therefore, it's a console.
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So we are going to change the definition of mini-PCs and start calling them consoles?

Anyway, this is a dumb argument. People can call it a dump truck but that does not change that it was designed with PC gamers in mind and it will play PC games.

We've been super happy with the success of Steam Deck, and PC gamers have continued asking for even more ways to play all the great titles in their Steam libraries. Our work over the years on other hardware and even more importantly on SteamOS has enabled Steam Controller, Steam Machine, and Steam Frame to do just that.
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Again quoting a small part of my message to make a point while leaving the rest which is also important. I think it should be fair to address it in it's entirety because I keep repeating myself and you keep ignoring what I'm saying to turn to another angle.

rodrigolfp said:
The exactly same programs and emulators?? Or they need to be coded/changed to work in that console?? Afaik, the emulators on Series consoles are very different than the PC emulators. You can't just download Ryujinx and double click on it on Series and it will work the same....
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Programs. That's it. And now that programs are running on Series consoles it needs to be programs validated by you? And you weren't the one who I had this discussion at first. It was just an example on how the definition can change based on who you are responding.

This is so tiring. Keep moving the needle no matter what I can say.

rodrigolfp said:
The same convenience and updates in background also happens the exactly same way in other Arch Linux distros. Size, there are mini PCs, giant PCs cases as there are mini consoles (Snes mini) and giant consoles, (PS5). Fixed hardware on a PC changes nothing as the OSs will be the exactly same with just aditional drivers for that unique parts. The APIs and games will perform nealy the same jusdt as other Arch distros.
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None of those are combining all the elements of the Steam Machine. It's the all in one package for a contained price (based on interview, we'll see if it's confirmed) while maintaining the user experience of a console (if you want to) that's gonna be appealing.
The architecture as a whole has been made as smooth as possible.

I'm not saying it's not a PC. It is since it has desktop mode. In fact I'm thinking of buying one of those for my mother so she uses it in desktop mode.
And I'm also not saying it's a console for reasons already discussed.

So an hybrid, and again I don't think it's weird or an hot take to think of it that way. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else on how you should look at it. If you think it's just a PC, so be it.
But at the same time, I think you can understand how with all those elements (the size, the conveniency and the fixed HW mainly) I can look at it as an hybrid.
 
Crayon said:
Seems like a lot of people consider the steam deck as neither a console or pc. It's just 'a steam deck'.
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I have seen it called a handheld PC many times. I don't recall it ever hearing it be called a handheld console or a hybrid.


I'm not sure why some people are insisting on labeling the Steam Machine as something other than what Valve has said it is. What is the motivation?

YOUR GAMES ON THE BIG SCREEN
Powerful PC gaming made easy, in a small and might package.
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...and it's a PC

Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
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KyoZz said:
So an hybrid, and again I don't think it's weird or an hot take to think of it that way. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else on how you should look at it. If you think it's just a PC, so be it.
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It is a hybrid PC that plays only PC games? :messenger_squinting_tongue:
 
Valve is not only beating Xbox to the punch but will undoubtedly be quite cheaper

Xbox just has dogshit leaders
 
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KyoZz said:
By who? Who said an hybrid obligatory has "games being made solely for it, and needing to run in dual-boot to access"? I guess the PS4 can't be considered a console anymore since pretty much all the games that matter (if not all minus some obscure titles) are now on PC?

Why it couldn't be: an open system that's taking the accessibility of a console and the flexibility of PCs. Please tell me, who set this rule in stone? You know those things are in constant evolution and having one single definition is too
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We done here. We're not going to keep going in circles if you don't even know the definition of hybrid.
 
KyoZz said:
Programs. That's it. And now that programs are running on Series consoles it needs to be programs validated by you? And you weren't the one who I had this discussion at first. It was just an example on how the definition can change based on who you are responding.

This is so tiring. Keep moving the needle no matter what I can say.
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You know that every software is a program, right? The difference between them is the hardware architecture and OS they are running. Is Xbox Series running PC programs?? No.
 
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bitbydeath said:
We done here. We're not going to keep going in circles if you don't even know the definition of hybrid.
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Since I'm just asking who said an hybrid obligatory has "games being made solely for it, and needing to run in dual-boot to access"? and you can't offer an answer, yeah we are done

583247.jpg


reinking said:
It is a hybrid PC that plays only PC games? :messenger_squinting_tongue:
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Yes it's library will be Steam. Thankfully now it has Playstation AND Xbox games in addition to the PC exclusives :messenger_squinting_tongue:

rodrigolfp said:
You know that every software is a program, right? The difference between then is the hardware architecture and OS they are running. Is Xbox Series running PC programs?? No.
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Again: I've been told here that if it can run programs then it's a PC. I was not the one making that claim which is indeed completely ridiculous and stupid.

But again you are quoting only a fraction of my message. You rather make the effort to properly respond or we are done too.
It's crazy how you want to for me to say this is only a PC. I don't know why it's so important to you but I'm telling you, it's not happening 🤷‍♂️
 
KyoZz said:
Again: I've been told here that if it can run programs then it's a PC. I was not the one making that claim which is indeed completely ridiculous and stupid.
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You were told wrong. PS5 can run programs (games and even browsers) and it's not a PC.

KyoZz said:
Yes it's library will be Steam. Thankfully now it has Playstation AND Xbox games in addition to the PC exclusives
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Only emulated. It can't run PlayStation and Xbox games natively just like every other PC.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
You were told wrong. PS5 can run programs (games and even browsers) and it's not a PC.
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Dude I know that, I didn't make the claim I contested it. Why are you deflecting the conversation? It was just an example to show you how different people have different views and that most are stupids because they don't know shit. End of story.
 
reinking said:
I have seen it called a handheld PC many times. I don't recall it ever hearing it be called a handheld console or a hybrid.


I'm not sure why some people are insisting on labeling the Steam Machine as something other than what Valve has said it is. What is the motivation?
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Yes I've seen it called a pc many times, and a console many times, and seen many people not bother to categorize it. It's being perceived differently than a pc because it's starting to deviate from what people expect of a pc.

A thought exercise for this is to ask why your android phone isn't a pc. It's not because it doesn't have windows, apparently. Valve has arm translation coming so it's not like x86 defines it. It may drive you towards one storefront but it is still open to sideloads from the user.
 
I collect VHS tapes said:
If it gets a good enough console-like experience, I don't think most people will care that it's not strictly a console

I've owned a similar one of these machines in the past. The historic problem has always been they just don't work right. If they can fix it and make it as brainless as a Nintendo Switch, that would be huge. This is what the article talks about.
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This would be perfect for me. In my late 30s and don't want to turn on PCs to launch games, but i know it's the best way to experience some games and retro titles. If we can have a $4k pc with our own library, connected just to the TV, with a controller ready to go, im in.

Been googling this at random periods to see where progress is. Steam Big Picture Mode and Playnite isnt all that convincing.

Come on Valve! Make it happen. I'm currently playing dragon quest viii on xbox series s using retroarch. It's not ideal...
 
Crayon said:
Yes I've seen it called a pc many times, and a console many times, and seen many people not bother to categorize it. It's being perceived differently than a pc because it's starting to deviate from what people expect of a pc.

A thought exercise for this is to ask why your android phone isn't a pc. It's not because it doesn't have windows, apparently. Valve has arm translation coming so it's not like x86 defines it. It may drive you towards one storefront but it is still open to sideloads from the user.
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I never seen it called a console other than I think I have seen it called a handheld gaming PC console a few times. As for the exercise, it doesn't make sense to me because a phone is a phone with the primary function of communication. Just because it plays games or browses the web does not make it something else. Just like a PC device that has a console-like experience doesn't make it something else.

For the sake of argument, I just go with what Valve considers them. They claim, "All Steam Decks (both LCD and OLED) are powerful, portable, PC gaming devices made for comfort and a console-like experience." Why do people insist on categorizing them as something else? They never claim it to be a console, just a console-like experience on a PC gaming device.
 
reinking said:
I never seen it called a console other than I think I have seen it called a handheld gaming PC console a few times. As for the exercise, it doesn't make sense to me because a phone is a phone with the primary function of communication. Just because it plays games or browses the web does not make it something else. Just like a PC device that has a console-like experience doesn't make it something else.

For the sake of argument, I just go with what Valve considers them. They claim, "All Steam Decks (both LCD and OLED) are powerful, portable, PC gaming devices made for comfort and a console-like experience." Why do people insist on categorizing them as something else? They never claim it to be a console, just a console-like experience on a PC gaming device.
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Well that's a clean sidstep. A phone is a phone because it is for phoning, then a pc is a pc because ....? It's for personal computing? Or a catch-all? Or what? The definition of pc is about to get pretty wooly when arm translation is good and you have form factors like handhelds, console-ish things, and standalone headsets.

Nobody is really insisting on anything. They are just trying to use the words they have available to describe something they see as different. Valve can call it a pc all they want but people are not fully taking up the label and that's fine.
 
simpatico said:
The difference is the timing. This box plays most of the games on PS5 and a few hundred thousand more. There are no online fees. They can play every retro game known to man. They can mod those games and give characters breasts for feet and feet for hands. I think this will be a hell of a value prop for young people. It also kicks off what I expect to be a tidal wave of similar machines from all your favorite OEMs. That STRIX APU (I'm not up on APU names forgive) is gonna make this market super interesting.
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Exactly what I'm trying to explain in another thread. This device and the next Steam Deck are going to have it all. That's fucking insane value, if you ask me.
 
Kacho said:
I do agree with what KyoZz KyoZz is getting at. While I would technically classify it as a PC, calling it just a PC is reductive because it's simplified like a console.
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But that is just SteamOS. Which leads me to the question, is SteamOS a console?

Edit: obviously not, just bringing your point to what I perceive to be it's logical conclusion.
 
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Crayon said:
Well that's a clean sidstep. A phone is a phone because it is for phoning, then a pc is a pc because ....? It's for personal computing? Or a catch-all? Or what? The definition of pc is about to get pretty wooly when arm translation is good and you have form factors like handhelds, console-ish things, and standalone headsets.

Nobody is really insisting on anything. They are just trying to use the words they have available to describe something they see as different. Valve can call it a pc all they want but people are not fully taking up the label and that's fine.
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Hypothetical scenario. You're playing on a Steam Machine and a friend asks what it is. What do you tell them?
 
Crayon said:
Well that's a clean sidstep. A phone is a phone because it is for phoning, then a pc is a pc because ....? It's for personal computing? Or a catch-all? Or what? The definition of pc is about to get pretty wooly when arm translation is good and you have form factors like handhelds, console-ish things, and standalone headsets.

Nobody is really insisting on anything. They are just trying to use the words they have available to describe something they see as different. Valve can call it a pc all they want but people are not fully taking up the label and that's fine.
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PC is a PC because it is for personal computing, yes. It is about as generic a term possible because a PC literally can be used for whatever you want. It doesn't have a primary use like a console or a phone. It is a crucial difference when I can choose whatever operating system I want on a computer versus a console where there is no such choice. So personal computing truly is "personal". What it can be used for isn't dictated by a corporation.
 
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Crayon said:
Well that's a clean sidstep. A phone is a phone because it is for phoning, then a pc is a pc because ....? It's for personal computing? Or a catch-all? Or what? The definition of pc is about to get pretty wooly when arm translation is good and you have form factors like handhelds, console-ish things, and standalone headsets.

Nobody is really insisting on anything. They are just trying to use the words they have available to describe something they see as different. Valve can call it a pc all they want but people are not fully taking up the label and that's fine.
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It isn't a sidestep. A phone is a phone.

We already have those things. It is just recently people have started trying to over complicate where they fit. People can categorize Steam devices differently than what the people that created them categorize them as, but that seems silly to me. Personally, I play on all of these devices (including phones) so I guess this really isn't my battle anyway. Not sure why I have gone down this rabbit hole. 🤷‍♂️
 
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