Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 23-29 | Beauty and the Beast
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Just imagine my Dante's rushdown without Low Voltage assist and you'll have a pretty good idea what it was like.
I really wish if I could play that style of full aggro Dante sometimes.
Funnily enough, they didn't use that term on the latest patch notes, instead they used "increased the amount of damage scaling on combos", a.k.a., the truth
Passive Assassin
Member
no nlbc today?
sixteen-bit
Member
Maximize dat CPM.
Spooky said he is tired. Don't know if Art plans to stream.
Passive Assassin
Member
art or goldencen pls.
That's how it is in every patch.
They don't actually use the words nerfed/buffed in patches... they stuff like "slightly increased recovery" which doesn't mean much without the frame data.
And the reason why people have started to use normalize instead of nerf is because there is still this stigma around "nerfing" characters. People think if you nerf a character then they are automatically shit and they cry about it until the end of time. When you use the word normalize it feels better when you character is getting their legs chopped off.
By "that term" I meant "normalized", but yeah, I agree
Passive Assassin
Member
Passive Assassin
Member
aris isn't going to be at wnf tonight? FGC WEEKLIES BODIED.
So on this discussion on patch stuff...
What's the one change you thought was insignificant but ended up making a huge difference?
For me it's pretty damn easy... it was the buff to Morrigan that increased her fireball damage. Obviously the actual fireball damage change wasn't listed so I didn't think much of it. Game comes out and we learn that the value was increased from 70,000 to 85,000. Now in a game where an average health character is around 950K to 1 million, that didn't really seem much at the time. And of course no one really knew how the character worked and how important that one single move is on her. That was almost a 20% increase on her fireball damage but that applied to all her fireballs so during a single volley of Astra Vision SF fly SF she now dealt 60K extra damage all around. Not to mention that she gained extra hit stun on the move (which also seemed harmless) so you now you can juggle characters for like 700K damage or something crazy like that.
Needless to say a lot of people ate crow on Morrigan in UMVC3, most people thought she would be no better than Mid tier in the game.
What's the one change you thought was insignificant but ended up making a huge difference?
For me it's pretty damn easy... it was the buff to Morrigan that increased her fireball damage. Obviously the actual fireball damage change wasn't listed so I didn't think much of it. Game comes out and we learn that the value was increased from 70,000 to 85,000. Now in a game where an average health character is around 950K to 1 million, that didn't really seem much at the time. And of course no one really knew how the character worked and how important that one single move is on her. That was almost a 20% increase on her fireball damage but that applied to all her fireballs so during a single volley of Astra Vision SF fly SF she now dealt 60K extra damage all around. Not to mention that she gained extra hit stun on the move (which also seemed harmless) so you now you can juggle characters for like 700K damage or something crazy like that.
Needless to say a lot of people ate crow on Morrigan in UMVC3, most people thought she would be no better than Mid tier in the game.
sixteen-bit
Member
Plan C, call Min!I guess no stream tonight
MiniBossBattle
Member
Doom's j.S causes hard knockdown. Completely changed his BnB from buktooth to fo-footdive combo.
That combo was always possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfDV6KpFCZY
It didn't change his combos that much (well it made his hit confirms much derpier/easier though) but it made approaching Doom way harder. It also enhanced his mix up game a lot because every time he hovered above you it was basically a mix up because it was hard to judge if it would cross up or not because of how fast it came down.
Most people thought this was a big change on the character. The main reason Doom went up a lot was because he got faster dashes, up back dashes were made more useful, his Butter Gun was buffed, his hypers did more damage . Doom was always a sleeper High tier character in Vanilla but with stuff like Berderper Slash nerfed his assets became much more appealing in the new game.
Oh well. Guess I'll play some AE tonight.
http://www.twitch.tv/kadey1up
Where is that nut Grimlock always whining about having no gaffers to play?
http://www.twitch.tv/kadey1up
Where is that nut Grimlock always whining about having no gaffers to play?
Beast Legacy
Member
I just use normalize because it's a goofier and less serious word than nerf. But you're right about the "panic" that happens when the word nerf is thrown around.
Professor Beef
Banned
Dissidia tournament matches: X-Striker (Tidus) vs Livewire (Cloud/Kain) - Matches 1 - 3
Also, Assists. Technically they're not insignificant, but I thought they were at first. :x
Ultimecia's new attack in 012 which is the SF equivalent of a meterless Aegis Reflector that you can actually spam.
Also, Assists. Technically they're not insignificant, but I thought they were at first. :x
Come on now man, everyone thought that was an absurd tool to have for the character. Probably the biggest change/buff to a character in the game.
Oh man how did I forget about that?
Yea that definitely turned him into a monster. Good pick, I still remember people complaining that Haggar got robbed and that the cr.H OTG change wasn't enough.
It made him a viable character and not just an assist
You couldn't do it midscreen without it being extremely hard (or impossible?) in vanilla, and had to do the buktooth loop generally midscreen to be consistent.
But yeah all of those are other real huge changes, alongside being able to swing faster, and swing when dashing downback. Also, his footdive speed got buffed significantly in terms of travel speed which is actually a huge buff and large component to that 'don't be under him' mixup game- the vanilla speed it traveled at was basically asking to be swatted out of the sky, whiff punished or airthrown.
edit: Also, on the Morrigan buffs- the other really random thing that turned out to be huge for Morrigan was having increased hitstun on her fireballs. That's an actual change from Vanilla- it allows for the really super painful lockdown to be super painful combos from fullscreen. In Vanilla, IIRC after getting hit by like 3 or 4 you would flip out while in Ultimate I've been juggled by up to 14 or 15 fireballs...
My own entry on "seemingly random buff that was actually gigantic and oh god" is Zero's lightning crossing up in the corner, because uhhhh haha woo wow! Buster cancels were obviously broken, but purposely making the lightning cross up in the corner seemed like a kinda pointless thing in theory to me.
DryEyeRelief
Member
I didn't expect Apologyman to go to NEC. He was there last year but I think that was because he won his plane ticket.
Yeah, the hitstun was a huge change. I'm not even sure it was possible to juggle them for even a second volley in vanilla. I've tested it quite a bit, and never got the second volley to hit from full screen. They flip out too quickly.
Another small Morrigan change that's often overlooked is the fact her flight startup went from 15 frames to 11 frames. It might not seem like much, but if you take into account multiple volleys per Astral Vision and it starts to add up. For every 10 volleys in vanilla, you get an extra volley in Ultimate. Considering the increased you get in Ultimate, it makes a pretty big difference in the long run.
Every Zero change stood out to me as a big fat 'no'. I always considered Zero top 5 in vanilla, and seeing every buff they gave him killed me inside. I wanted to choke everyone who said that Zero was nerfed(and there were people who said that!).
Can't really think of any changes I thought would be useless turning out to be great. I do remember thinking Wolverine's j.L and Dive Kick both getting a hitbox nerf was great, but it turns out that it did absolutely jack shit.
I already listed the hit stun change along with the damage change (it's in my first post). The fly change also makes a difference of course, she throws fireballs in a slightly more rapid fire speed now.
And yeah Zero was top 6 already in Vanilla (top 7 at the worst). Nerfing the other top 5 already made him top tier but they didn't just stop there, they just went full retard on his changes and didn't stop until he was the best. Definitely a case of the director being a fan of the character and influenced balance choices.
The Wolverine Dive Kick nerf is definitely very noticeable. I went back to play some Vanilla and the ranges that the old Dive Kick crossed up from was ridiculous. You feel it more as a Wolverine player.
And yeah Zero was top 6 already in Vanilla (top 7 at the worst). Nerfing the other top 5 already made him top tier but they didn't just stop there, they just went full retard on his changes and didn't stop until he was the best. Definitely a case of the director being a fan of the character and influenced balance choices.
The Wolverine Dive Kick nerf is definitely very noticeable. I went back to play some Vanilla and the ranges that the old Dive Kick crossed up from was ridiculous. You feel it more as a Wolverine player.
I sort of expected it. NEC is big with Anime gamers also will be the first BBCP major
This may look like we are shitting on the devs but honestly 90% of the changes they made going from Vanilla to Ultimate were excellent changes. In that 10% you ended up having the dumb stuff like Zero buffs and She Hulk nerfs.
Capcom overall though has definitely been behind. They really lack quality, talented devs now after that mass exodus. And of course the extremely bone headed decisions of the big guys at the head of it all.
Going into this generation I was on a gaming high with Capcom. Going into the next generation I am on a gaming low.
I remember being pretty annoyed at a lot of people not knowing how good Zero was in Vanilla while SRK forums had all this Zero tech being discovered. Everyone was too focused on what they saw on streams. Then when people finally figured out he was good, people claimed he was too "technical".
He's come a long ways.
ASW isn't any better for balancing honestly.
yeah you said it. I think everyone should have known what was up when inafune dipped. that was a sign.
i still have some faith though. the team has been showing *some* signs of intelligence...(like deciding to release Ultrasf4 on Nesica for example. in japan, here, that is going to be a big deal)
but then you see hayano posting something like "hakan is weak he needs more buffs" 0_o idk man i see stuff like that and im like...when will they get it?
my biggest hopes from capcom on the fighting game front are that they refine what they already have. Hopefully they do ultra right and get away from the bullshit that has bogged down the game, and I would like them to revisit sfxt as well. sfxt is very close to being a good game (surprisingly)
as for marvel...lol
Probably. I didn't really play Wolverine much in vanilla besides for a bit of derping around, so most of my experience with him is from Ultimate.
RIP dream of DMC5 at TGS.
Yeah I remember all those arguments. A lot of "why put in effort with Zero when you can play Wesker? They do almost the same damage! AND OMFG XF4 DARK WESKER!!!"
A lot of people brought up the argument of execution which finally died out. Too bad it took almost 2 years for Zero to win big, the theory fighters had to live with dumb arguments for about that much time.
It's kind of a good idea if he isn't. We're going to have to lab and level up in this game and it wouldn't be fun having everyone being free to Japanese players haha.
It's too bad that Nesica hurts the almost non existent arcade scene in the US. Because don't those machines require a certain internet connection?
Professor Beef
Banned
to be fair, theory fighters are all about dumb arguments
USF4 exists because there is literally nothing else those guys can be doing at the moment or get approved.
From all angles it's a head scratcher of a decision from Capcom, and a unique example of Capcom not knowing WTF to do right now, or maybe not so unique if they're dumping a bunch of money on that too.
From all angles it's a head scratcher of a decision from Capcom, and a unique example of Capcom not knowing WTF to do right now, or maybe not so unique if they're dumping a bunch of money on that too.
I think it's also a way to try to recoup what they lost with SFXT sales. People wanted to play these characters but not in SFXT.
Did they say if they are doing arcade mode for the new characters?