Passive Assassin
Member
america takes it over japan in the team tournament.
Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 23-29 | Beauty and the Beast
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Duh, chris g is on the team.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I'm waiting for a train and listening to the Back Street Boys hold your horseress
MiniBossBattle
Member
Some really interesting thoughts about SF4. I am not a top player or have a mindset like JuiceBox (I think about spacing/punishes) but can kinda undestand his grievances. Curious about what people like UltraDavid or Valle has to say about it.
Some crib notes he said:
People are not going to get better or play like how Japan plays (i think he is saying they don't care about the matchups because it will forever be a two player game)
He lost to Tokido not because of High vs Mid characters but because of Tokido vs JuiceBox.
He sounds angry/annoyed by the way SF is played in the US.
I SAID GOD DAYUM!!!!!
I really really hope Nemo gets the invite to Canada Cup. Most anticipated big money match of the century.
Also FChamp was saying he wants to play Nemo for 10,000 dollars. Someone start tweeting FChamp this shit... he definitely wants in on this action.
He's been annoyed/salty with SF for a while now- he doesn't like the way it's heavily matchup-based. I, on the other hand, love that about it - you can't play against two characters the same way.
That's not what he is ranting about.
He is saying that the US players focus only on match ups, tier lists and theory fighting where as the Japanese players play against the other player (hence 2 player game comment). He doesn't like the way the US plays the game and doesn't enjoy playing against that but he wants to play against the Japanese way of playing. He cited the Makoto vs Fei Long match between Mago and Haitani as an example of how character match up was irrelevant it was about player versus player.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
From what I saw and what I can remember he started talking about NEC and the Battle Royale. He was saying some young and hungry players in NYC are getting the shaft by not having an opportunity to participate in the team tournament. He recognizes that Team Tournaments are hype and players like unknown got his name because he blew it up in a team tourney. He said that this kills attendence overall if the pot monsters aren't hungry and eager to play. Like, he tried to say how pot monsters aren't treated nicely particularly at Next Level and they are not gonna care to go to weeklies and tournaments. If pot monsters don't go the top plays wont either and this kills the scene. For example the past couple of battle circuits has had low attendance for every game he says. He also went into how brackets are done unfairly like their shouldn't be a pool with 3 to 4 top players and then pools with no top players. Also that things should be united and together; if there's seeding at a major then it should be an obvious reason to the players why they are seeded where they are. He implied there either should be a league or things should be completely random otherwise. Essentially, he's trying to say the scene isn't organized and events aren't efficient and don't drive the pot monster/top player circle.
You always have to play against the other player and their tendencies regardless of game. But the matchup favoritism definitely skews the odds. Look at the Dhalsim/Ryu F.Champ/Daigo set where they went 5-5 in a matchup that favors Dhalsim...followed by Daigo blowing him up with Yun like 9-1.
"Top/High" tiers are also just telling you they're good characters for tournaments. Sometimes it reflects matchup problems, but in a lot of cases in SF4 it's really reflecting that their risk/reward ratio is just completely off compared to the good characters. Trying to learn Juri for tournaments really doesn't make much sense right now- she's a cool character, but she has no damage. And heck, Infiltration keeps 3 characters at his diposal just so he has options in case a character or player matchup gives him issues. Twice this year we've seen him bust out Hakan successfully in clutch situations and win because he had experience the others didn't. You have to both play the matchup AND play the player. The former is very easy to theorycraft and teach. The latter is not.
DryEyeRelief
Member
The main complaint about matchup based fighters is that you play every player of the same character the same way.
And it's true to an extent. A common tip given to new players, when they have jitters against well established players, is to ignore who they're facing and just beat their character's options.
SloaneRisette
Member
Yo gat dayum Nemo! I wanna see that happen live though.
Learning to read people/situations takes time, experience, and natural intuition. It's something you learn over time. But you need to know the matchup in order to know what your options are... and what your opponents' are as well. You can booklearn that.
essentially
Here's my statement on this whole "match up fighter" stuff:
*It only applies when two players are equally skilled. If they aren't equally skilled then match ups are not that relevant which is pretty much most of the time. And it's not only just skill but peak skill where the match ups even matter. No one is playing the game at peak performance or at robotic levels where they are making no mistakes.
*Match ups also are charted based on current knowledge. Knowledge about games change over time. I swear before the Ryu/Akuma Daigo/Infiltration set people were swearing that Akuma has 7-3 advantage over Ryu but now they are like it's 6-4 at worst.
*Match up charts are obviously only relevant over a certain span of match count. If a match up is 8-2 and you only need to win 2/3 then you have a definite fighting chance of winneven mathematically speaking.
Match ups are just a fraction of winning in any fighting game. You can play the match up all you want but you aren't going to win tournaments without playing the player.
*It only applies when two players are equally skilled. If they aren't equally skilled then match ups are not that relevant which is pretty much most of the time. And it's not only just skill but peak skill where the match ups even matter. No one is playing the game at peak performance or at robotic levels where they are making no mistakes.
*Match ups also are charted based on current knowledge. Knowledge about games change over time. I swear before the Ryu/Akuma Daigo/Infiltration set people were swearing that Akuma has 7-3 advantage over Ryu but now they are like it's 6-4 at worst.
*Match up charts are obviously only relevant over a certain span of match count. If a match up is 8-2 and you only need to win 2/3 then you have a definite fighting chance of winneven mathematically speaking.
Match ups are just a fraction of winning in any fighting game. You can play the match up all you want but you aren't going to win tournaments without playing the player.
SolarPowered
Member
toddhunter
Member
I've always thought that "top players" play top-tier...but real top players make top-tiers.
Obviously I only play at a low level, but I've always enjoyed bad match-ups the most. This is because I know exactly what my opponent is going to be doing and I can work out a plan against it. There is always an answer and I often find that once you apply it? They really don't have a plan B to hit back with.
When they do the game gets even better.
Obviously I only play at a low level, but I've always enjoyed bad match-ups the most. This is because I know exactly what my opponent is going to be doing and I can work out a plan against it. There is always an answer and I often find that once you apply it? They really don't have a plan B to hit back with.
When they do the game gets even better.
3rd TOPANGA LEAGUE (B) match-ups for the weekend:
ROUND 1
wao vs. Matsugorou
Naruo vs. Eita
wao vs. Kyoku
Eita vs. Kyoku
Naruo vs. Kouji KOG
Tuna vs. Kyabetsu
Tuna vs. Kouji KOG
Naruo vs. Dashio
Eita vs. Dashio
NISHIKIN vs. Matsugorou
NISHIKIN vs. Kyoku
Kyabetsu vs. Dashio
ROUND 2
Michael-tan vs. Kouji KOG
Michael-tan vs. Sasaki
Naruo vs. wao
inco vs. Tuna
Youshikibi vs. NISHIKIN
Kyabetsu vs. Kyoku
Matsugorou vs. Eita
Naruo vs. Kyabetsu
inco vs. Sasaki
Matsugorou vs. Youshikibi
Kouji KOG vs. NISHIKIN
Tuna vs. Naruo
ROUND 3
Michael-tan vs. Naruo
Michael-tan vs. NISHIKIN
inco vs. Eita
inco vs. Youshikibi
Dashio vs. Matsugorou
Dashio vs. Kouji KOG
Tuna vs. Kyoku
wao vs. Sasaki
Matsugorou vs. Kyabetsu
Kyabetsu vs. Sasaki
Youshikibi vs. Kyoku
wao vs. Eita
ROUND 1
wao vs. Matsugorou
Naruo vs. Eita
wao vs. Kyoku
Eita vs. Kyoku
Naruo vs. Kouji KOG
Tuna vs. Kyabetsu
Tuna vs. Kouji KOG
Naruo vs. Dashio
Eita vs. Dashio
NISHIKIN vs. Matsugorou
NISHIKIN vs. Kyoku
Kyabetsu vs. Dashio
ROUND 2
Michael-tan vs. Kouji KOG
Michael-tan vs. Sasaki
Naruo vs. wao
inco vs. Tuna
Youshikibi vs. NISHIKIN
Kyabetsu vs. Kyoku
Matsugorou vs. Eita
Naruo vs. Kyabetsu
inco vs. Sasaki
Matsugorou vs. Youshikibi
Kouji KOG vs. NISHIKIN
Tuna vs. Naruo
ROUND 3
Michael-tan vs. Naruo
Michael-tan vs. NISHIKIN
inco vs. Eita
inco vs. Youshikibi
Dashio vs. Matsugorou
Dashio vs. Kouji KOG
Tuna vs. Kyoku
wao vs. Sasaki
Matsugorou vs. Kyabetsu
Kyabetsu vs. Sasaki
Youshikibi vs. Kyoku
wao vs. Eita
Passive Assassin
Member
chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis g
http://shoryuken.com/2013/09/26/who...street-fighter-x-tekken-ver-2013-tournaments/
So who do you guys think should be invited for Capcom Cup?
My picks for UMVC3:
Justin Wong
FChamp
ChrisG
Flocker
Nemo (he said that he can come if he is invited and of course the big money match)
Yipes
KaneBlueRiver
PRBalrog
So who do you guys think should be invited for Capcom Cup?
My picks for UMVC3:
Justin Wong
FChamp
ChrisG
Flocker
Nemo (he said that he can come if he is invited and of course the big money match)
Yipes
KaneBlueRiver
PRBalrog
Justin Wong
FChamp
ChrisG
Flocker
Kusoru
PRBalrog
KaneBlueRiver
Nemo
SFxT:
Infiltration
Sethlolol
Nuckledu (we know this one.)
A 2-man japanese online team.
And ... dunno on the rest.
For something like Capcom Cup expenses are normally paid re: travel/lodging/etc. It's a marketing expense.
I want Yipes on commentary, not playing.
Rather see Rei-chan anyway. Dudes an enigma but all the JP players say he's one of the best there if not the best.
It's not about the expense...
It's about his promise and him wanting to remain undefeated in the US.
Yeah he's absurdly good although I don't know if he has changed his team or not. I mean Wesker has become obsolete as an anchor. His Deadpool could essentially blow up people at Canada Cup because I can guarantee you no one is ready for that.
MiniBossBattle
Member
FChamp doing an AMA on Reddit soon.
I don't have Reddit or Twitter but someone harass him about Nemo's challenge. I want to see FChamp pop off.
SloaneRisette
Member
Capcom would pay his trip, and it's a great opportunity for him to make some cash, so I woudn't doubt it
toddhunter
Member
Does Kusuro even still play? Might as well invite Tokido or Combofiend at that point.
He played Justin Wong and PRRog when they went abroad in Japan. He did well against them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GFSokmfbD0
He lost but they were close sets and competitive.
toddhunter
Member
Fair enough thanks.
I'd still rather somebody like Angelic...but an international flavour makes sense.
The issue with Angelic is "oh god another wolverine team" assuming you're aiming for diversity of style/flavor and you're already pencilling in Justin/Rog. (Would not be surprised to see a first round Wolverine Mirror because of that.)
MiniBossBattle
Member
BF4, WatchDogs, AC-Black Flag.
toddhunter
Member
I wouldn't have both of them, just Justin for team EG.
Passive Assassin
Member
infiltration being a dick lol.
Yeah I have to imagine that if they are doing invite only that it's going to be a balance of geographic distribution, tournament placings and team playstyles.
The 4 gods have to be guaranteed and I am pretty sure they will throw in PRRog as well but not as likely as he is always claiming he is "retired". The 4 gods are already balanced in terms of geography and some what in their teams... you just pick from some of the international players for the other 3-4 slots. KBR is the most consistent international player and the one who frequents tournaments the most outside his own country... he really deserves the spot plus his team is fairly unique. Nemo does extremely well in Japan but not so great overseas yet his performance in the long sets should put away all worries about skill level... he is still the biggest chance that any country has as far as pulling an American upset. Outside of that from UK you really only have Zak Bennet who would be a solid pick especially in this format but I don't know if they would actually pick him.
My guess is that they might pick the 4 gods (1 Socal, 1 Norcal, 1 NYC and 1 Florida), 1 from Japan, 1 from South America and from Europe. They might pick someone from Canada too, it's a possibility. They might even wait and pick from the pool of AE players because they can easily just put in Xian for the UMVC3 bracket too representing East Asia.... they wouldn't have to worry about sending an additional ticket.
The 4 gods have to be guaranteed and I am pretty sure they will throw in PRRog as well but not as likely as he is always claiming he is "retired". The 4 gods are already balanced in terms of geography and some what in their teams... you just pick from some of the international players for the other 3-4 slots. KBR is the most consistent international player and the one who frequents tournaments the most outside his own country... he really deserves the spot plus his team is fairly unique. Nemo does extremely well in Japan but not so great overseas yet his performance in the long sets should put away all worries about skill level... he is still the biggest chance that any country has as far as pulling an American upset. Outside of that from UK you really only have Zak Bennet who would be a solid pick especially in this format but I don't know if they would actually pick him.
My guess is that they might pick the 4 gods (1 Socal, 1 Norcal, 1 NYC and 1 Florida), 1 from Japan, 1 from South America and from Europe. They might pick someone from Canada too, it's a possibility. They might even wait and pick from the pool of AE players because they can easily just put in Xian for the UMVC3 bracket too representing East Asia.... they wouldn't have to worry about sending an additional ticket.
atomic moth
Member
It's so much easier to watch AE when I've been drinking.
Infiltration is good.
Infiltration is good.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You lost me. Getting familiar with situations takes time. But I would argue it takes even more time in a game where every character matchup is played differently.
Applying a "rule of thumb" when fighting isn't something unique to matchup based fighters. Every fighter has that, including KoF. It's just sometimes the character designs themselves are so opposing in their differences, it never gets to the point where the player can intervene with skill/uniqueness.
Damn