Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Those breasts arent big enough to make that person look like a woman. Upon a first look she looks like a man with a rainbow wig. In that setting id think it was a man wearing a bad cosplay outfit before woman crossed my mind.
Transgender journalist at EG Expo called "this person" on stage at MS event (See OP)
- Thread starter winstano
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Those breasts arent big enough to make that person look like a woman. Upon a first look she looks like a man with a rainbow wig. In that setting id think it was a man wearing a bad cosplay outfit before woman crossed my mind.
Um... so guilty before proven innocent? No thanks. (BTW the justice system does assume you are innocent, until convicted by trial made up of a jury of your peers. Then you're guilty.) Being arrested for murder != you're a murderer. Even if CNN wants you to believe that.
Warmijwilf
Banned
Ah, you're saying both have the potential to be offensive, hurtful, and victimizing, and so one being worse than the other doesn't necessarily justify either being used?
Nevermind on the "ridiculous" thing, then.I think I see the point you're making, although I disagree with the way you're applying it.
I'm saying both can be just as hurtful when applied by extremely racist people on either side of the coin, simply because it's applied by extremely racist people on either side of the coin, despite the fact that one word is clearly much worse than the other on the whole.
Personally yeah I'd just prefer neither word being used at all. Although this is a completely different topic to the one in this thread, lol!
How about we just don't draw conclusions until there is sufficient information, or should sufficient information not come to light, we leave it without judgement? And I'd hope a lot of people held to the notion of innocent until proven guilty... I really would. Trial by media suggests otherwise, but there we go.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Me too. And she seems to be quite tall...
baphomet
Member
Because thats pretty common for something like this.
The Cowboy
Member
350 or so people saw this event and not 1 video of it?, I'm really quite surprised by this.
This is a terrible occurrence and surely should not happen.
That said, I would like a video of the even to get a non-biased version of the story.
Everybody should be respected, there is no doubt there. If I am to be honest, I did have trouble identifying the gender of this woman upon first glance.
That said, I would like a video of the even to get a non-biased version of the story.
Everybody should be respected, there is no doubt there. If I am to be honest, I did have trouble identifying the gender of this woman upon first glance.
Warmijwilf
Banned
MesserWolf
Member
the murder suspect is innocent until proven guilty.
You should not consider him guilty because somebody accuse him .....
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Well this viewpoint is why wrongful convicteds have to seek gigantic financial reparations because the lasting damage to character is so completely done.
I'm grinding my teeth here because this is all close to the bone, but a possible brony transgender is just possibly going to have a persecution complex that is going to make matters like this super sticky and have a certain predisposition to encounters like this. Lets hope it wasn't that being the cause because thats going to be some truly humble pie to masticate.
flamingotripod
Member
I agree, imo she looks like a guy who cosplays but if the comedian called her an "it", he is at fault here.
I assume the arrested suspect is innocent until proven otherwise. Same with this story. Surely there were enough people around to provide that proof.
Calling anyone 'it' is messed up, but the only thing that could save him a tiny bit was if he thought the person was a guy cos-playing a girl. Even then it's pretty rude.
polyh3dron
Banned
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Kinda like this
Oh god....
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
I can totally see him being confused if she was dressed like she is in the red shirt photos. Calling her "it" would be fucked up. Can't believe there isn't any video.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
That sounds a bit like guilty before proven innocent. We've heard both sides of the story, now, and you're welcome to believe whichever side you want to. I would suggest that staunch, vocal support of either side would be, at this point, premature. Calling for someone's head before all the facts come out is damaging to both parties.
This kind of reaction is part of what made the Zimmerman trial such a circus in the United States, and resulting in utterly ruining the life of a man that was proven not guilty in a court of law.
...right. Except there's a body. Evidence that something happened. Is there a single piece of verifiable outside evidence or claim in this situation?
I hope the comedian apologized to her in some form, and understood that when you live a life where people legitimately have disrespected you in a lot of small ways, it can be hard to tell when it's just a misunderstanding.
That being said, I don't think going to Twitter is the best way to deal with problems like this. Living a life where you have to differentiate between whether someone has disrespected you, whether they're just making a mistake, whether it's just in your mind, etc, isn't easy, or fun. Twitter, FB, etc just make it more complicated and adds unnecessary drama and eyes to a sensitive situation. I really really understand why someone would do that, especially when it feels like the other person just doesn't give a shit, and I understand the history of underprivileged peoples silencing themselves to protect the reputations of privileged people, but taking to the internet is not always the *right* thing.
Fake Edit: In Before Teh Lock
That being said, I don't think going to Twitter is the best way to deal with problems like this. Living a life where you have to differentiate between whether someone has disrespected you, whether they're just making a mistake, whether it's just in your mind, etc, isn't easy, or fun. Twitter, FB, etc just make it more complicated and adds unnecessary drama and eyes to a sensitive situation. I really really understand why someone would do that, especially when it feels like the other person just doesn't give a shit, and I understand the history of underprivileged peoples silencing themselves to protect the reputations of privileged people, but taking to the internet is not always the *right* thing.
Fake Edit: In Before Teh Lock
So basically, because a he said she said framework inherently favors the accused over the accuser, it should actually inherently favor the accuser over the accused, because we don't generally take a murder suspect's denials at face value, although we generally presume innocence, and in practice this all highly varies on a case by case basis.
Your argument would be bad enough if it didn't originally begin with "I only care what one side says."
Warmijwilf
Banned
That's my stance. Personally, I think the guy is probably being truthful that it was just a mistake he made under pressure and he didn't mean offence but I'm not certain yet, I just wish people would put down their pitchforks assuming this guy is 100% definitely scumbag material.
Not the one just posted, no. Earlier, yes.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
The guy on the couch? Of course not.
Now I wonder what goes through ones head to take such a photo. Diversionary tactics successful.
Edit: Ah, I see, he's a photograph with a knack for impersonating heroes/characters from comics and tv. Interesting.
double edit: LOL I think I like that guy.
charlequin
Banned
I'm not saying my mind is made up about the facts of the situation, I'm saying his denial is basically irrelevant. If he acted maliciously he'll lie to deny it; if it was an accident he'll remember himself as blameless.
The thing is, I also don't care about guilt. I don't want ms our the comedian to be forever branded as jerks here; I want them to admit that maybe something unacceptable happened to Laura, either by accident or bad judgment, and it won't happen again. Nobody's going to jail here and so I don't feel compelled to stick to the American criminal justice system standards.
meltingparappa
Member
And then it's a bad idea either way, but calling a cisgendered person an 'it' is demeaning, but calling someone you know is transgendered an 'it' is outright horrible.
The initial accusation kind of implies the latter, which is hard to get confirmation on without more eye-witness accounts.
EightBitNate
Member
Actually now that I think that I think about it, maybe he thought calling her "it" was being inoffensive since he didn't know what gender she was. Granted, that is absolutely NOT something you call another person, but it kinda sounds like he thought he was making a good move.
Sounds a lot like my grandmother who refers to anyone that looks weird to her as "that". As in, "What is *that*!?"
Oh please. If he would have asked her gender in front of 350 other people we would still be seeing tweets about how Eurogamer was ruined because someone got embarrassed by being asked the question.
Calling someone "it" is a very disrespectful way of calling someone.
It's basically saying to someone YOU ARE NOT HUMAN.
Dictator93
Member
I think general logic dictates the burden of proof falls upon....
Regardless about someone going to jail... someone's reputation could easily be at stake. And reputation murder/suicide have a huge affect on someone's livlihood and mental wellbeing.
As a result... I think you should worry about more evidence rather than what you "presume." things about his statement of denial. Your statement can be equally reversed from the accusation and says "she is lying."
The best thing to do is just state that you do not know... and therefore you could not possibly judge. Unless there is some historical evidence proving an undeniable pattern or something.
polyh3dron
Banned
It'd be easier if you could just pause reality and discuss a situation with a bunch of people like this before resuming reality and doing the inoffensive thing. But the guy had to think on his feet and probably has never dealt with a situation of this nature and therefore said the wrong thing.
What? Since when has that been true?!
opticalmace
Member
He should have just asked the person's name if he was unsure of which pronoun to use. Then just reference the person by name.
That's what I thought, too. I'm honest here: If I saw her, I would not know how to refer to her just by sight and maybe that was his quick shot way to do it. Which is a bad idea, of course.
BronsonLee
Member
Twix needs to step in here and give both of them a lifetime supply of Twix to pause time
Also that comedian is clearly a fucking git because he still didn't apologize
Also that comedian is clearly a fucking git because he still didn't apologize
Are you saying that whether the offending event occurred as the accuser claims should have no effect on the response of the accused? I've heard more than one person suggest this (and I want to be sure I'm understanding correctly), but that's an absolutely horrid way to approach accusations of mistreatment.
Well sure, if this is Salem in the late 1600's.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
After seeing the red shirt pictures I can 100% sympathize with the comedian's confusion about the journalist's intended gender presentation.
The wig also seriously confuses the issue. It's the most salient thing about her appearance, and there's nothing anti-trans about thinking it's weird. The comedian could have easily believed he was mocking less sacred aspects of this person's identity (i.e., cosplay nonsense) and only after the fact was he made aware of her gender identity and the sensitivities surrounding it.
That doesn't prove a lack of malice or disrespect for her trans-ness but I see it as one plausible scenario.
The wig also seriously confuses the issue. It's the most salient thing about her appearance, and there's nothing anti-trans about thinking it's weird. The comedian could have easily believed he was mocking less sacred aspects of this person's identity (i.e., cosplay nonsense) and only after the fact was he made aware of her gender identity and the sensitivities surrounding it.
That doesn't prove a lack of malice or disrespect for her trans-ness but I see it as one plausible scenario.
Since when is that a thing to focus on?
You seem to be missing the 3rd option. Which seems to go through your last few posts about the topic. That you believe he's guilty. You've already made up your mind.
But the 3rd option you're omitting is -- if he never even said it. He'll remember never saying it. But Laura will remember he did say it because she can possibly be predisposed to hear it.
This isn't the truth, this is an option. We don't know the truth yet. However, we do know that he understands saying "it" and "thing" is an issue because he reacts to it by claiming not to have done it. Take Mike from PA (Gabe), his reaction to saying things about transgender people was indifference, he didn't know it was hurting people. thus he didn't care. Same with the "dick wolves" thing.
So obviously the comedian cares enough to recognize it. So outright hate or ignorance is probably not the reason behind whatever happened.
That's the point here. Until there's more evidence we should wait and see. Not jump to conclusions.
What's wrong? Does being transgender mean we can't write about gaming news or cover events or something?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I think it was a misunderstanding. I believe what this Millward guy said.
What are you even talking about? Hiring comedians and other personalities for trade shows or corporate event is a super common thing and the bread and butter of tons of them, actually, as those kind of events are super well paid compared to regular gigs. You think they are gonna let average regular people from the marketing dept do the presentations in front of everyone? Of course not.
The guy is probably getting a beatdown from the people who hired them right now
Hard to tweet when your agent and MS people are screaming at you and probably told you to keep radio silence while they think about what to sayBronsonLee
Member
A misunderstanding which he still hasn't had the spine to truly apologize for, soooo....
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