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[cheststrongwell]

The difference is I'm not using it as a point of reference for why false accusations are bad,

It was a 100% valid response to a post in this thread.

 

[lenovox1]

Throwing a twitter tantrum is not the professional or appropriate way to handle this. Obviously emotions are high, but we're not talking about children or teenagers here, and if you want to be taken seriously, you can't scream at the internet for an hour as opposed to taking proper action to clarify the situation.

If you don't understand why a journalist would vent on Twitter about their perceived mistreatment from a representative of multi-national corporation, then you don't fully grasp how exacerbating this situation would be if you were in Laura's shoes.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, it's clear that you are hung up on this rape angle, even though it had virtually nothing to do with the discussion before you kept bringing it up. Seriously, it's been mentioned exponentially more since you took offense to it's use than before. Give it a fucking rest already.

Maybe its because I just woke up, but even seeing it brought up in a thread with no relevance set me off.

Don't we also have his side of the story where he claims that he never called her "it"?

I saw that mentioned.

Usually I'm more adept at talking to people. But something about rape allegations being brought up just set me off. I apologize if I'm stepping on toes, but I just can't for the life of me see how they are in any way relevant to the situation. Maybe I should take a step back.

Thank you for your time everyone.

 

[Veitsev]

She tried to talk to him way earlier when she was at the con, and was immensely annoyed about being told off doing so. Then she vented to her few hundred followers that are probably VERY interested about that.

I don't see her making a story out of it at all, all that came after that wasn't really her fault. By your logic, no one should vent on anything on any social media ever.

Sorry but you can't go on twitter with the intent to publicly "blame and shame" someone (whether this is the comedian, the handlers that denied her access, or both) and then complain that Kotaku (or any other news site) is picking up the story. She is a member of the media trying to bring attention to something that offended her using a public forum. The whole point of publicly shaming someone is to bring PUBLIC ATTENTION to what they did. She even wanted for someone from Microsoft to see it. Even if it wasn't her intent to make a huge story out if it it is naive for her to think she should have full control over who gets to post about what happened. It also ridiculous to call for the banning of a site over posting about what is available for anyone on the internet to see, especially when the author of this content posted it with the intent for the public to see it.

 

[itsgreen]

I was going to cut Microsoft some slack on this as this guy doesn't work for them permanently and I was sure they'd not hire him again and apologize but it seems they've gone with a "she misunderstood" combined with "it didn't happen"

As far as Microsoft's image is concerned to me the apology or lack there of was worse than the incident, as the incident itself was not Microsofts fault, though the original incident is still terrible, but mainly for the "comedian/presenter"

Even if for arguments sake it didn't happen? Ok... whatever... let's blame them.

Microsoft has a proven track record of supporting the LGBT community. But let's just blame them. Even if there, at this point, isn't any verification that it actually happened. (Also no real support that it didn't happen)

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

I honestly thought we'd gone past the stage where an incident like this could go by unfilmed by someone. Even if nothing happened.

 

[erawsd]

I was going to cut Microsoft some slack on this as this guy doesn't work for them permanently and I was sure they'd not hire him again and apologize but it seems they've gone with a "she misunderstood" combined with "it didn't happen"

As far as Microsoft's image is concerned to me the apology or lack there of was worse than the incident, as the incident itself was not Microsofts fault, though the original incident is still terrible, but mainly for the "comedian/presenter"

But maybe it didn't happen? Maybe she did misunderstand?

The point is we don't know what went down, so we have no right to disparage one side or the other.

 

[baphomet]

Don't we also have his side of the story where he claims that he never called her "it"?

We also have someone who says they witnessed the entire thing and she was never called "thing" or "it".

 

[puzl]

Kotaku ladies and gentlemen:

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

There should be around 300 witnesses either way. We should hear more about it at some time.

Let's just wait till some people who aren't the subjects in this matter share what they have heard/seen.

Gonna need some more testimony and video before we jump on the hate parade.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

And now Owen Good', the guy who wrote that story, said she never asked.

THIS IS ALL SO CONFUSING

edit lttp

 

[dLMN8R]

It's really depressing seeing people who Microsoft hires do things like this.

Microsoft is an extremely open and tolerant company. I work with a couple of transgendered people who are wholly respected and treated as anyone else - and if they were disrespected in any way for their sexual orientation, identification, or otherwise, those who instigated would get HR violations and reprimands like crazy.

There are even some transgenedered people high-up in leadership too. It's not just some fake front to keep up appearances.

Add to that the fact that they've been offering domestic partnership benefits basically forever, something like this is completely out of character.



Surely there will be some people who simply use this story to further bolster their false preconceived notions about Microsoft, a little taste for their confirmation biases, but hopefully most of you will know that this isn't representative of the company at all.



[edit] just read through some more of the thread. Here's hoping it was a simple misunderstanding.

 

[baphomet]

Kotaku ladies and gentlemen:

Just goes to show that she can lie through her teeth and people will take it as fact.

 

[Zhuk86]

I think this is being overblown by the internet, I am sure he meant no offence but I can imagine when you are being overwhelmed by hundreds of people and you get someone who is biologically male but psychologically female on stage it would be quite easy to make a mistake...

 

[lenovox1]

I wish there was a better way to deal with something like this rather than ruining some working comedians career.

Can the LGBT community quit this life-destroying behavior? Was there an attempt to contact this guy directly and educate him instead of public shaming and making sure he will probably never get a corporate gig again?

Say what now. Expound on this. I'd love to hear your reasoning for such a vile statement.

And why the fuck would the culpability be on her? Are you fucking serious? Are you telling me that if someone said something about you or your family that personally effected you, you would tell absolutely no one about it until you got "the whole story" or some other bullshit? Are you serious?

 

[redcrayon]

I wish there was a better way to deal with something like this rather than ruining some working comedians career.

Can the LGBT community quit this life-destroying behavior? Was there an attempt to contact this guy directly and educate him instead of public shaming and making sure he will probably never get a corporate gig again?

What? How is it exclusively an 'LGBT community' problem? It's in the OP that she tried to talk to the guy and PR said no, she only had a couple of hundred twitter followers initially, contacted MS and the expo organisers, discouraged forum chat about it and turned down press coverage. Small scale stuff, and quite sensible, it looks like she was looking for sympathy from friends and it went viral. Now both of them are getting abuse on twitter and it's pretty vile all round.

The only 'community' that seems determined to engage in life-destroying behaviour is the online one that's incapable of discussing an insult/misunderstanding/whatever without death threats, disgusting insults and objecting to other people's very existence. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which 'community' is posting all that shit on her twitter, or perhaps we could stop using 'community' as a broad brush stroke to beat people with.

 

[JacksUsername]

If you don't understand why a journalist would vent on Twitter about their perceived mistreatment from a representative of multi-national corporation, then you don't fully grasp how exacerbating this situation would be if you were in Laura's shoes.

Actually what I'd expect from a journalist is an attempt to get the other side of the story before going out and venting on Twitter, but hey, in this day and age, I guess that's not a reasonable expectation.

 

[UNCMark]

Just goes to show that she can lie through her teeth and people will take it as fact.

Or she was overwhelmed this morning and it slipped her mind. It's understandable. The fact remains that she's now asked for the story to come down and Kotaku is refusing.

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

 

[Shane]

Or she was overwhelmed this morning and it slipped her mind. It's understandable. The fact remains that she's now asked for the story to come down and Kotaku is refusing.

Awkwardly, in an age of people discussing/pointing at videogames journalism, them taking this article down would surely be a bad thing in that respect.

 

[BronsonLee]

And now Owen Good', the guy who wrote that story, said she never asked.

THIS IS ALL SO CONFUSING

edit lttp

lolololo Owen Good is a git

Kotaku need them hits, sorry can't take it down during your 15 minutes of fame despite the fact that, you know...You really shouldn't do an article on something without getting some form of comment from both parties

 

[Jenga]

Say what now. Expound on this. I'd love to hear your reasoning for such a vile statement.

calm your beard, to be more accurate it's a common reactionary response nowadays from the internet to do so, only right now LGBT issues are at the forefront atm, the guy is wrong placing it on the LGBT community as a whole, but not so wrong on internet detectives trying to muck careers as a first response

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Wait, so a Kotaku piece highlighting her plight at being supposedly ridiculed, is now drawing her further abuse, and they're refusing to take it down?

Nice.

 

[Jackson]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

I'd start with human being and go from there.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

Just goes to show that she can lie through her teeth and people will take it as fact.

Or she's just being non confrontational.

 

[lenovox1]

Actually what I'd expect from a journalist is an attempt to get the other side of the story before going out and venting on Twitter, but hey, in this day and age, I guess that's not a reasonable expectation.

You should be looking towards Owen Good there. If Laura felt personally offended and insulted in that deep of a way, there's no way that she would have been receptive to anything that he had to say that was anything other than an apology at any point.

 

[EvilEntity]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

You call it what it is. A human person being boy/girl.

 

[GaimeGuy]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

A human being. And you refer to a trans person with the pronoun that they wish to be called.

 

[Sai-kun]

Just goes to show that she can lie through her teeth and people will take it as fact.

And some people will take any angle they can to try and make her seem like the bad person here.

 

[Riposte]

Just going to say I'm completely unable to follow who's in the right and wrong here. What a clusterfuck. My lesson is that you shouldn't cosplay as a pony no matter who you are.

 

[Kintaro]

Sorry but you can't go on twitter with the intent to publicly "blame and shame" someone (whether this is the comedian, the handlers that denied her access, or both) and then complain that Kotaku (or any other news site) is picking up the story. She is a member of the media trying to bring attention to something that offended her using a public forum. The whole point of publicly shaming someone is to bring PUBLIC ATTENTION to what they did. She even wanted for someone from Microsoft to see it. Even if it wasn't her intent to make a huge story out if it it is naive for her to think she should have full control over who gets to post about what happened. It also ridiculous to call for the banning of a site over posting about what is available for anyone on the internet to see, especially when the author of this content posted it with the intent for the public to see it.

Bingo!

She wanted to make this a story and that is what happened. Can't blame Kotaku. They have every right to cover whatever is out there.

 

[The Librarian]

Kotaku ladies and gentlemen:

http://fae.ro/ss/87ea01.png[/IM[/QUOTE]
Wow. That's terrible of Kotaku.

 

[RM8]

Wow. Lol, he can't be serious.

 

[kaiyo]

Not one person can say it doesn't happen. But I just don't see why it's in any way relevant. When talking rape allegations or this case.

In particular in this case it has no relevancy. This would have been seen by dozens. So far we've got one person with an offensive slant of their own saying something, and then the young woman that was insulted and offended.

Until more say what they heard or saw we just have one real source.

I was just commenting on charlequin's way of thinking

Accusers should be given more credence than the reflexive denials of the accused.

The movie is in a similar situation in that it was a she said he said scenario and how they put more credence on the accuser (the girl being groped on a train) without knowing the full details. It ruined a young man's life for 5 years.

 

[Mesoian]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

What they identify as.

 

[JustProgress]

Wow. That's terrible of Kotaku.

Why? Like the dude said he is just reported a public matter.

 

[UNCMark]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

Depends on what they tell me their name is.

 

[FartOfWar]

Or she was overwhelmed this morning and it slipped her mind. It's understandable. The fact remains that she's now asked for the story to come down and Kotaku is refusing.

Kotaku based its article on her own public Twitter page. Why would they want to take it down?

 

[BluePigGanon]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

Whatever they self-identify as.

And of course Kotaku shouldn't take the story down just because she is asking them to. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, and sadly she kinda f-ed up going on Twitter about it.

That being said, the story shouldn't have gone up on Kotaku to begin with because it's all so fuzzy and nobody seems to be 100% sure what actually went down.

 

[krypt0nian]

And some people will take any angle they can to try and make her seem like the bad person here.

It's a Trans issue. It's not surprising that some treat her as the villain here.

Forwarded this to a ton of LGBT news sites so Kotaku can deal with being in the hot seat.

 

[Jackson]

Or she was overwhelmed this morning and it slipped her mind. It's understandable. The fact remains that she's now asked for the story to come down and Kotaku is refusing.

They don't have to take her story down. She went public. They reported on it. She's a journalist... She should know that's how this works.

Just because you don't like the outcome of the story doesn't mean you own the rights to it.

I'm sure Adam Orth didn't want Kotaku publishing his tweets because it was bad for him. But guess what? It's public.

 

[Mesoian]

Kotaku based its article on her own public Twitter page. Why would they want to take it down?

Yup. I'm sorry, but you can't proclaim an outrage against someone that did something terrible to you, then wish it all willed away hours later when media outlets decide to cover it. This is news, fairly big news. And more over, it's news you wanted to garner attention to just hours earlier. I don't like Kotaku in general, but they are well within their rights to report upon this.

 

[flkraven]

People act like social media is a protective bubble. Once you have posted on facebook and twitter, you have made public comments. Kotaku did nothing malicious by turning it into an article. It is public information and it is news.

 

[puzl]

It's a Trans issue. It's not surprising that some treat her as the villain here.

Forwarded this to a ton of LGBT news sites so Kotaku can deal with being in the hot seat.

They won't care. More hits for them.

 

[The Librarian]

Why? Like the dude said he is just reported a public matter.

Because she's asking him to take it down and he's refusing?

 

[baphomet]

And some people will take any angle they can to try and make her seem like the bad person here.

We have 2-3 people saying she was never referred to as an "it" or "thing". We have 1 person, who lied about telling Kotaku not to publish an article, saying she was called an "it" on stage. Im going with common sense on this one.

 

[2MF]

Streisand effect... taking the story down might be counter-productive at this point.

 

[Portugeezer]

On a serious note what do you call a trans person?

You refer to them as he/she, whatever they want to be.

Sorry but you can't go on twitter with the intent to publicly "blame and shame" someone (whether this is the comedian, the handlers that denied her access, or both) and then complain that Kotaku (or any other news site) is picking up the story. She is a member of the media trying to bring attention to something that offended her using a public forum. The whole point of publicly shaming someone is to bring PUBLIC ATTENTION to what they did. She even wanted for someone from Microsoft to see it. Even if it wasn't her intent to make a huge story out if it it is naive for her to think she should have full control over who gets to post about what happened. It also ridiculous to call for the banning of a site over posting about what is available for anyone on the internet to see, especially when the author of this content posted it with the intent for the public to see it.

I agree.

Should be talking about the supposed situation, not that Kotaku picked this up. It's on the GAF anyway.

 

[polyh3dron]

It's a Trans issue. It's not surprising that some treat her as the villain here.

It's also not surprising that some treat her as beyond any iota of scrutiny here.

When you post something on Twitter, you make it public. You may as well be issuing a press release.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Just going to say I'm completely unable to follow who's in the right and wrong here. What a clusterfuck. My lesson is that you shouldn't cosplay as a pony no matter who you are.

Thread summary:

It's Microsoft's fault for hiring the comedian.
It's the comedian's fault for not asking her name.
It's her fault for not looking more like a woman.
It's her fault for misundertsanding what was said.
It's LGBT people's fault for confusing everyone.
It's the crowd's fault for not videoing it.
It's Kotaku's fault for publishing the story.

Have i missed anyone?