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Is Peyton Manning the best quarterback of all time? No.

Is Peyton Manning the greatest quarterback ever?


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Jim Brown is still the best.

He played in an era where defenders focused almost exclusively on the run every game, before the passing game matured enough to be considered a legitimate threat; this means that every team Jim Brown faced in his career game-planned specifically against him. The punishment he took in those day, in an era where player safety was considered an afterthought, made his achievements even more remarkable.
 
What happened when Elway was on a team with legit Hall of Fame talent (Shannon Sharpe & Gary Zimmerman)? Well the Broncos won more games in three seasons than any other team, ever. They were one and done in 1996 but won next two Super Bowls.

The Packers lost that first Super Bowl more than the Broncos won it. The second win was legit though against a lucky as hell Falcons squad that had no business being in the SB. I don't even know if ATL gets past their first playoff game against SF if Hearst didn't get injured early on in that game.

Jim Brown is still the best.

He played in an era where defenders focused almost exclusively on the run every game, before the passing game matured enough to be considered a legitimate threat; this means that every team Jim Brown faced in his career game-planned specifically against him. The punishment he took in those day, in an era where player safety was considered an afterthought, made his achievements even more remarkable.

What does this have to do with a QB discussion?
 
Peyton Manning is doing great things this year, and he has a spectacular supporting cast. That said, the man has had too many big moment failures to be entertained as greatest of all time.

Plus, I can't stop picturing his teabagging incident every time I look at his face.
 
Jim Brown is still the best.

He played in an era where defenders focused almost exclusively on the run every game, before the passing game matured enough to be considered a legitimate threat; this means that every team Jim Brown faced in his career game-planned specifically against him. The punishment he took in those day, in an era where player safety was considered an afterthought, made his achievements even more remarkable.

He is a running back.

As for Peyton, he is the greatest regular season QB I have ever seen. However, there is a difference between his play when it comes to the playoffs and that holds him back from most people calling him the greatest ever.
 
The Packers lost that first Super Bowl more than the Broncos won it. The second win was legit though against a lucky as hell Falcons squad that had no business being in the SB. I don't even know if ATL gets past their first playoff game against SF if Hearst didn't get injured early on in that game.
Explain this to me. How did the packers lose this game? The had no answer for TD. If he doesn't get a migraine, Denver wins this easily.
 
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Greatest of all time. Everybody else mad.
 
Peyton Manning is doing great things this year, and he has a spectacular supporting cast. That said, the man has had too many big moment failures to be entertained as greatest of all time.

Plus, I can't stop picturing his teabagging incident every time I look at his face.

Wow, I didn't even know about this, what a piece of garbage.
 
He might be. A lot of those Colts teams were pretty weak. The team that finally won the SB was looking dead in the water until the defense got its asses in gear. Overall though, those were some rather unimpressive squads that Manning made look very, very, very good. Definitely less talented than Brady's teams.

This is by far the best team Peyton has ever had to work with, we are all seeing what he can do.

Playoffs are basically random, you can't really judge a player based on what happens in a small sample of one-off games.

Eli is garbage though.
 
I don't understand why people keep saying Brady

That must mean we're talking strictly season, and if we are, Peyton shits on Brady. If we're talking post-season, why the fuck is Brady even getting mentioned? He got outplayed be Eli not once, but twice.

Want to talk about chokes and underperforming? It doesn't get much worse than that. It not only shows that he's a system quarterback, but that without cheating like they did during his early success, he's nothing.
 
The Packers lost that first Super Bowl more than the Broncos won it. The second win was legit though against a lucky as hell Falcons squad that had no business being in the SB. I don't even know if ATL gets past their first playoff game against SF if Hearst didn't get injured early on in that game.



What does this have to do with a QB discussion?

You're going to tell me that the Packers lost SB 32 more than the Broncos won when the Broncos ran for almost 200 yards and four touchdowns?
 
Brady still lost the most important game of his career against a lesser team, and he was laughing in the press interviews before the game about the thought of his SuperTeam being held to 17 points or less. Then his wanting the Giants again the 2nd time, his whole got my game face look right before that Superbowl with Robert Kraft implying how ready he is this time it looks so foolish now all on film, so if we are going to talk about Peyton chokes, Brady's got 2 huge ones . Those are big losses, had he won even one of those I would put him in top 3, but he didn't and you can't put him there right now. Still with that team and coaches who to say Brady does not win 2 more Superbowls, then you would have to rocket him to top contender. Brady & Gisele are still hot like the Beckhams, he should not dance though.
 
Brady still lost the most important game of his career against a lesser team, and he was laughing in the press interviews before the game about the thought of his SuperTeam being held to 17 points or less. Then his wanting the Giants again the 2nd time, his whole got my game face look right before that Superbowl with Robert Kraft implying how ready he is this time it looks so foolish now all on film, so if we are going to talk about Peyton chokes, Brady's got 2 huge ones . Those are big losses, had he won even one of those I would put him in top 3, but he didn't and you can't put him there right now. Still with that team and coaches who to say Brady does not win 2 more Superbowls, then you would have to rocket him to top contender. Brady & Gisele are still hot like the Beckhams, he should not dance though.

He still won three. Guy who chokes all the time except three times > guy who chokes all the time except for once. Peyton still has career left, so he could win two more, but given how he plays in the playoffs, I doubt it.
 
I don't understand why people keep saying Brady

That must mean we're talking strictly season, and if we are, Peyton shits on Brady. If we're talking post-season, why the fuck is Brady even getting mentioned? He got outplayed be Eli not once, but twice.

Want to talk about chokes and underperforming? It doesn't get much worse than that. It not only shows that he's a system quarterback, but that without cheating like they did during his early success, he's nothing.

Because the average poster here is around 20 years old. They aren't old enough to know because with kids, the world starts when they remember shit. You're not going to get anyone who knows a lot about football saying Brady is the best. It's Montana. Deal with it Brady and Manning fans.
 
What Montana did to the Broncos in Super Bowl 24 should have been illegal, and it still the best I've ever seen a QB play.

Brady still lost the most important game of his career against a lesser team, and he was laughing in the press interviews before the game about the thought of his SuperTeam being held to 17 points or less. Then his wanting the Giants again the 2nd time, his whole got my game face look right before that Superbowl with Robert Kraft implying how ready he is this time it looks so foolish now all on film, so if we are going to talk about Peyton chokes, Brady's got 2 huge ones . Those are big losses, had he won even one of those I would put him in top 3, but he didn't and you can't put him there right now. Still with that team and coaches who to say Brady does not win 2 more Superbowls, then you would have to rocket him to top contender. Brady & Gisele are still hot like the Beckhams, he should not dance though.

What makes the second Giants game even funnier is that if Brady doesn't make that bonehead safety, all he needed was a FG to win the game on the final drive, something we know he's good at.
 
Because the average poster here is around 20 years old. They aren't old enough to know because with kids, the world starts when they remember shit. You're not going to get anyone who knows a lot about football saying Brady is the best. It's Montana. Deal with it Brady and Manning fans.
Like I said, everybody else mad.
 
He still won three. Guy who chokes all the time except three times > guy who chokes all the time except for once. Peyton still has career left, so he could win two more, but given how he plays in the playoffs, I doubt it.

How many of those did he win without cheating? None.

Peyton throwing an interception in a game is not choking. Brady's complete game against the New York football Giants is choking. He was running scared all night.
 
People give Brady too much credit for his early championships when he wasn't that great statistically. Their team won some iconic games thanks to Adam Vinatieri game-ending field goals. Peyton Manning lost a playoff game due to a infamous Mike Vanderjagt game-ending field goal miss.

Read this article on some stats regarding Tom Brady's play in the playoffs.
http://www.footballnation.com/content/captain-clutch-is-tom-brady-really-great-postseason-qb/22881/

How did Brady manage to be so clutch then, if his performance was so much worse than what ought to be typical? Defense, of course. In the Patriots’ first championship season, the New England defense ranked sixth in the league in points allowed before holding a series of high-octane offenses (capped off by the Greatest Show on Turf) to an average of only 15.7 points per game in the playoffs (the tuck rule helped too). The ’03 team led the league in scoring defense by a wide margin, and allowed an average of 19.0 points in the playoffs – a figure inflated by Carolina’s 29 point Super Bowl outburst. Finally, the ’04 defense tied for second in the league in scoring defense behind Pittsburgh, then held opponents to 17 points per game in the Lombardi run.

...

Brady got the ball back needing a late field goal. 35 seconds and three timeouts proved not enough. Brady proved not up to the comeback challenge in his next Super Bowl meeting with the Giants either, getting the ball back and needing a touchdown with 57 seconds and one timeout. The media rushed to lay the blame on Wes Welker for failing to make a spectacular catch late. As the Cold Hard Football Facts have pointed out, that was a connection that Brady and Welker just didn’t make during the season. Commentators and writers claiming it was a “routine” catch for Welker apparently didn’t see the play or watch the Patriots all year. They rushed to defend the “clutch” of Tom Brady.

Scott Kacsmar has pointed out Brady’s shortcomings before, with a look at specific flaws in his game. Hopefully the data here can put those shortcomings into a larger historical context. Tom Brady’s dirty little secret is that he’s never been a great postseason quarterback. Without the tuck rule and Drew Bledsoe’s TD pass (the only one of the game) against Pittsburgh in the AFC championship, he never gets that first ring, and this debate never starts. So let the debate end now – despite an impressive resume, Brady is not “just a winner who steps up.”
 
Because the average poster here is around 20 years old. They aren't old enough to know because with kids, the world starts when they remember shit. You're not going to get anyone who knows a lot about football saying Brady is the best. It's Montana. Deal with it Brady and Manning fans.

I'm 32. Everything you're saying would make sense if Brady and Manning didn't both happen to be 2 of the best qb's of all time. It is inarguable.


Montana Brady
Playoff Record 16-7 17-6
Playoff Win % .696 .739
Super Bowl Record 4-0 3-2
Playoff One-And-Dones 4 2
Playoff Comebacks 5 3
Playoff Game-Winning Drives 5 6
Playoff Passer Rating 110+ 6 6
Playoff Passer Rating 130+ 3 3
 
Yeah Peyton has to win at least one more to be considered better than Montana and with how well he playing now it's easy to get ahead of ourselves.
 
I'm 32. Everything you're saying would make sense if Brady and Manning didn't both happen to be 2 of the best qb's of all time. It is inarguable.


Montana Brady
Playoff Record 16-7 17-6
Playoff Win % .696 .739
Super Bowl Record 4-0 3-2
Playoff One-And-Dones 4 2
Playoff Comebacks 5 3
Playoff Game-Winning Drives 5 6
Playoff Passer Rating 110+ 6 6
Playoff Passer Rating 130+ 3 3

How many games did Brady need a touchdown to win?

Field goal versus touchdown means all the difference in the world.
 
9-11 in the playoffs is not greatest of all time, dude is shit when the post season starts, regular season god, post season fraud...
 
Super Bowl wins is a pretty silly metric to judge overall QB perf by. The NFL is a high variance sport that plays single game playoff series, and when you reduce "playoff performance" even further to just "Super Bowl performance" your sample size is incredibly small to try to pull anything meaningful from the data.
 
Yeah Peyton has to win at least one more to be considered better than Montana and with how well he playing now it's easy to get ahead of ourselves.

No, he doesn't, because "Super Bowl wins" is not a QB stat, it's a team stat. Joe Montana's teams were far more talented than Peyton Manning's teams. That team that made it to the Super Bowl and lost to the Saints was basically the same team that went 1-15 without him.

Tom Brady has 3 rings and has played great in those games, but those teams also had great defenses. He hasn't won since that defense aged. Granted, the two Super Bowl losses were on fluke plays. That's how it goes. Playoffs are basically random. You can't judge a player based on a series of 1-4 games at the end of the year.
 
Super Bowl wins is a pretty silly metric to judge overall QB perf by. The NFL is a high variance sport that plays single game playoff series, and when you reduce "playoff performance" even further to just "Super Bowl performance" your sample size is incredibly small to try to pull anything meaningful from the data.

this

I hate the ring comparison. Manning has never had a good, healthy defense up until last season. Pats in the early 00s were one of the better defenses in the league, as are most championship teams.

It's the same reason Eli has 2 rings, but you won't find a soul in this universe that could tell you with a straight face that Eli is better than Peyton.
 
And he'd do that to any team. Anyone who doesn't answe Montana is nuts.

Most of GAF is too young to have seen Montana play. Man that guy was magic. Cant remember the exact quote, but after Steve Youngs first strart after Joe lef the 49ers he had 500 yards or so passing. Some outrageous number. And one guy said to another "Joe never passed for 400 yards" and the other guy said back that if Joe Montana ever passed for 500 yards he would have had 10 TD's. Playing QB was a science for Joe Montana.

Joe Montanas stats in 4 Super Bowls

83-122 68.0% 1,142 yds 11 td's 0 interceptions 127.8 rating W/L Record 4-0 and 3 Super Bowl MVP's


Heck across 4 Super Bowls Montana rushed 17 times for 105 yards and 2 tds.
 
Super Bowl wins is a pretty silly metric to judge overall QB perf by. The NFL is a high variance sport that plays single game playoff series, and when you reduce "playoff performance" even further to just "Super Bowl performance" your sample size is incredibly small to try to pull anything meaningful from the data.

I agree. However, there is a very good reason to measure quarterbacks in part through Super Bowl victories. Generally, if you are a great quarterback, you'll get between 12 and 20 seasons to play football.

If you are a great quarterback, your GM has a longer timeline to put together good teams to play around you because you'll generally be winning games.

If you are a great quarterback, odds are that somewhere in those 12 to 20 seasons, you'll play on some very talented teams.

It says a lot about a guy if they can capitalize on those opportunities by winning a championship.
 
Yes, I think he is. He only has one ring now, but I would not be surprised in the least if Peyton ends his career the same way Elway did (back to back championships).
 
Yes, I think he is. He only has one ring now, but I would not be surprised in the least if Peyton ends his career the same way Elway did (back to back championships).
I think it will play out exactly like Elway. The year before Elway won his first Superbowl they were 13-3, number 1 seed, and they lost their 1st game. The rest is history.
 
So Spygate never happened? Ok.

I had time to think, I don't think Manning is best ever. But he sure is my favorite ever. I give the crown to Montana.
 
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