US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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DarkFlow said:
So I've already found some crazy people who think this is a good idea.

https://twitter.com/HeidiL_RN


I don't even...
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mom.
 
Jobbs said:
My policy is staying out of political discussions. They only send people running to their idealogical trenches, no one sways anyone one way or another, and you alienate people who don't agree with you.

I just saw a news bit about NASA shutting down because of this. I'm finding it hard to maintain my policy.

Being conservative and having one idea or another about what the government should spend money on or how much it should spend -- That's one thing, and I can respect almost any point of view on that. What the house GOP is doing isn't right. It isn't right.

They say they want to negotiate. My understanding of negotiation and compromise is this: Republicans want stuff they like, Democrats want stuff they like, they get together and work out some kind of deal where both sides sorta kinda get something they like. *That's* negotiation. *That's* compromise.

The continued existence of the government is not a concession to the Democrats. Saying "we get to delay/defund/whatever obamacare; you get to continue to exist" is not a negotiation. That's not how it should work. That's negotiation at gunpoint. That's a threat. That's the same as racing the car towards a cliff and not stopping unless the passenger meets your demands.

I'm so beyond sick of this. NASA is basically shutting down. The mars rover will no longer collect samples or send things back. It's going into standby.

Buffoons in congress hurting real people. Literally halting noble scientific pursuits. And doing all this for absolutely no reason. No reason.

What a shameful day for our country.
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Don't think to many people should be concerned with what NASA is doing.
 
Fongul said:
Speaking as a U.S. Government worker, I hope that they hash this crap out soon. I can plan on not getting paid for a little while, but I know I cannot count on back pay like last time this happened. I had to leave work early tonight at 12 AM EST & most of my co-workers were actually looking forward to some R&R, unpaid or not. My supervisor was elated that she could take some time off without feeling guilty about getting things done back at the office.

Between the sequester and having my salary frozen for the last three years, it is making private enterprise look that much sweeter...
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I also left work early tonight and, like a lot of your co-workers, I'm also looking forward to the time off. I'm lucky enough that a few days without pay won't hurt me too much though. For some people, that lost pay will be brutal.
 
Jobbs said:
My policy is staying out of political discussions. They only send people running to their idealogical trenches, no one sways anyone one way or another, and you alienate people who don't agree with you.

I just saw a news bit about NASA shutting down because of this. I'm finding it hard to maintain my policy.

Being conservative and having one idea or another about what the government should spend money on or how much it should spend -- That's one thing, and I can respect almost any point of view on that. What the house GOP is doing isn't right. It isn't right.

They say they want to negotiate. My understanding of negotiation and compromise is this: Republicans want stuff they like, Democrats want stuff they like, they get together and work out some kind of deal where both sides sorta kinda get something they like. *That's* negotiation. *That's* compromise.

The continued existence of the government is not a concession to the Democrats. Saying "we get to delay/defund/whatever obamacare; you get to continue to exist" is not a negotiation. That's not how it should work. That's negotiation at gunpoint. That's a threat. That's the same as racing the car towards a cliff and not stopping unless the passenger meets your demands.

I'm so beyond sick of this. NASA is basically shutting down. The mars rover will no longer collect samples or send things back. It's going into standby.

Buffoons in congress hurting real people. Literally halting noble scientific pursuits. And doing all this for absolutely no reason. No reason.

What a shameful day for our country.
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Yeah, the NASA thing really bugs me too. They're already way underfunded as it is, and to have to deal with this shit... it's just so petty when you consider the things they're doing.
 
Jobbs said:
My policy is staying out of political discussions. They only send people running to their idealogical trenches, no one sways anyone one way or another, and you alienate people who don't agree with you.

I just saw a news bit about NASA shutting down because of this. I'm finding it hard to maintain my policy.

Being conservative and having one idea or another about what the government should spend money on or how much it should spend -- That's one thing, and I can respect almost any point of view on that. What the house GOP is doing isn't right. It isn't right.

They say they want to negotiate. My understanding of negotiation and compromise is this: Republicans want stuff they like, Democrats want stuff they like, they get together and work out some kind of deal where both sides sorta kinda get something they like. *That's* negotiation. *That's* compromise.

The continued existence of the government is not a concession to the Democrats. Saying "we get to delay/defund/whatever obamacare; you get to continue to exist" is not a negotiation. That's not how it should work. That's negotiation at gunpoint. That's a threat. That's the same as racing the car towards a cliff and not stopping unless the passenger meets your demands.

I'm so beyond sick of this. NASA is basically shutting down. The mars rover will no longer collect samples or send things back. It's going into standby.

Buffoons in congress hurting real people. Literally halting noble scientific pursuits. And doing all this for absolutely no reason. No reason.

What a shameful day for our country.
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And you just know that when they turn it back on it'll have slid off a cliff in a storm or something. And it was NASA's birthday too ;_;
 
CyclopsRock said:
Another of thread of people complaining that the Republicans aren't democrats, I see!

incidentally, where have all the people that said this wouldn't happen gone?
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Yeah and glorius Obama is faultless like he wasn't holding whole country as hostage to force opposition to surrender to get his pet project done ;)
 
Are they really gonna keep that countdown clock on CNN? For the next 24 hours, it's basically telling east coasters what time it is.

"The shutdown has lasted 5 hours and 45 minutes. Also, it's 5:45 on the east coast."
 
shagg_187 said:
Can someone explain in simple terms what will take place, what will be affected and what wouldn't? I'm so lost.
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The NSA will continue spying on us.

The press will run stories about all the hardships, such as, "panda cam goes black."

Any federal employee not working for the next few days will get back pay, as if they did.
 
shagg_187 said:
Can someone explain in simple terms what will take place, what will be affected and what wouldn't? I'm so lost.
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ICKE said:
Here's a timeline prediction for everyone.

-At first the shutdown will have little effect. Politicians will make statements defending their positions, libertarians will scream "see we told you, the whole public sector was nothing but an expensive illusion - lets close the shop completely"

-Tuesday <-> Friday. The spectacle begins. You will witness federal employees leaving their work places via CNN broadcast. National parks will close their gates. there will be less traffic but no major inconveniences. Both political parties will stand firm. The anxiety won't really kick into high gear as weekend arrives (a time when federal agencies are closed)

-Monday. Political Armageddon begins

There will frustration, panic and anger. People will realize what the shutdown means. Another week without getting paid, without having their documents processed, no nothing.

At this point citizens will wake up from their slumber :

"This is a bad situation. Our restaurant, which is next to a big government building, is completely empty."

"I know Mike, we are getting no action either. The federal agencies are closed and we have no customers. I'm not getting my tax refunds to boot"

"Guys. I'm working in that building and need money to support my family, I can't afford to just do nothing for another week"

As government employees stay home all over the country, people will demand answers from their elected officials. Why are they playing theater instead of governing?

Then it will only take a handful of House republicans to end the situation. How long will it take before they compromise? I'd say less than one day.
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Basically all businesses that rely on government workers will not be enjoying any income. Federal agencies will be closed so no document processing, national parks will be shut and so on.

It's going to be a really big issue for people who f.e need assistance but won't have their applications checked out but I would predict it will take until next Monday before the effects really kick in.
 
Can someone explain why the Democrats are to blame at all? People keep talking about how they're acting like children (too) or how the Senate are to blame too but so far the only reason I can find for the shutdown is that the Republicans demand Obamacare be delayed.
 
Korey said:
Can someone explain why the Democrats are to blame at all? People keep talking about how they're acting like children (too) or how the Senate are to blame too but so far the only reason I can find for the shutdown is that the Republicans demand Obamacare be delayed.
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Focusing on this particular issue I think the democrats are actually behaving like adults. You can't teach the republicans that they can use threats to shut down the government or burn the economy down as a way to get unrelated partisan objectives for themselves. You can't allow this to continue. You have to stop it now.

The democrats aren't doing this crap. The senate passed a clean bill to fund the government and keep everything open with no unrelated crap attached to it. Why can't the house do the same thing? That's their responsibility.
 
Amir0x said:
I am a government employee but they told us we won't be effected by this at the moment so we'll see
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Where do you work? If you're "still working" and your job is actually fed instead of state/local you get to work, but you won't get paid till this shit corrects itself.
 
I'm watching fox and friends for laughs. They are already blaming dems for this. Also saying the "mainstream media" is wrong for blaming the Republicans. I really wonder if even they believe some of the bullshit they shovel. Also when the hell did fox hire Elisabeth Hasselbeck? That woman might be the stupidest person on the planet.
 
Jobbs said:
The democrats aren't doing this crap. The senate passed a clean bill to fund the government and keep everything open with no unrelated crap attached to it. Why can't the house do the same thing? That's their responsibility.
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Both democrats and republicans have forced shutdowns before, and both have used the threat of shutdown repeatedly in attempts to get their way. In '95 the Republican-controlled Congress passed a budget and the shutdown occurred when President Clinton (Democrat) vetoed it. By your logic, it would have been Clinton's 'responsibility' to sign that budget, but I don't think you'll find many democrats here who agree. There is nothing new under the sun.
 
So the GOP is looking for the average Joe by trying to delay obamacare and all you guys do is point fingers and laugh at them?

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Bodacious said:
Both democrats and republicans have forced shutdowns before, and both have used the threat of shutdown repeatedly in attempts to get their way. In '95 the Republican-controlled Congress passed a budget and the shutdown occurred when President Clinton (Democrat) vetoed it. By your logic, it would have been Clinton's 'responsibility' to sign that budget, but I don't think you'll find many democrats here who agree. There is nothing new under the sun.
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Last shutdown was in 1995. Clinton vetoed it because it had a bunch of republican cuts attached to it. It wasn't a serious budget to begin with; They expected a veto when they passed it.

And I don't know that anything in my lifetime has happened that compares to what the GOP is doing right now. Respectfully I just don't agree with you about the perimeters of this thing or that it's all a wash. It's not.
 
I'm so glad this isn't a thing in my country.
 
Man, to potentially reduce your country's GDP by 0.9% over a nonsensical demand they knew would never be met. I wish the next polling numbers for the GOP would reflect reality but I doubt they'll change much.
 
So the Republicans are against people having healthcare, is that it?So basically if you don't have money to get treated, you're dead. am i right?
 
Jobbs said:
Last shutdown was in 1995. Clinton vetoed it because it had a bunch of republican cuts attached to it. It wasn't a serious budget to begin with; They expected a veto.

And I don't know that anything in my lifetime has happened that compares to what the GOP is doing right now. I just don't agree with you about the perimeters of this thing or that it's all a wash. It's not.
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So if Democrats pass a budget with lots of spending the Republicans don't like, it's the Republicans' responsibility to bite the bullet and pass it anyway to prevent a shutdown. But if Republicans pass a budget with lots of cuts the Democrats don't like, it's only natural to veto it and force a shutdown.

OK.

Anyway, I didn't say it was 'no big deal.' I guess I'm just jaded, i.e. seen too many of these pissing contests to take it seriously. Democrats gonna be Democrats, Republicans gonna be Republicans. I'm gonna be eatin' lunch at about 11:45am, same as yesterday.


.
 
Question, can the president issue an order to put congress wages into the "non essential" group? Because it is my understand that congress is deciding what goes where, right?
 
Jackpot said:
Man, to potentially reduce your country's GDP by 0.9% over a nonsensical demand they knew would never be met. I wish the next polling numbers for the GOP would reflect reality but I doubt they'll change much.
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I think the root of all of this is that they don't care about public opinion at large, nor do they need to. Their districts are locked down, gerrymandered so that they can't be challenged by the opposite party. Make no mistake, democrats have engaged in this practice of redrawing districts as well. It just so happens that republicans are particularly safe now after fresh redistricting in 2010.

Since they have no threat from the other party, their only threat is their own party in the form of a primary challenger. As such their only incentive is to be as extreme as possible.

As a whole, democrats in house races received more votes than republicans in house races in 2012.

Bodacious said:
So if Democrats pass a budget with lots of spending the Republicans don't like, it's the Republicans' responsibility to bite the bullet and pass it anyway to prevent a shutdown. But if Republicans pass a budget with lots of cuts the Democrats don't like, it's only natural to veto it and force a shutdown.
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Congress has been funding the government through continuing resolutions to fund current programs and keep the lights on. I think it's a much lower bar to just fund the status quo than it is to demand radical changes in spending levels, elimination of programs, or other unrelated partisan demands like cutting obamacare as a condition of funding the government. The senate passed a clean bill to maintain current funding levels and keep the lights on; Republicans won't do it. I don't see that the 1995 comparison is relevant. If republicans passed a bill to fund the status quo to keep the lights on Clinton would not have vetoed it.

My point is that brinksmanship, like shutting down the government, or threatening default, is not the way to achieve your side's goals. No matter who you are. That's not the way to do it. Have your debate, appeal to the voters, whatever. Don't engage in this.

Keep things running and look out for the people you serve first, and have your negotiations and arguments separately.
 
I really can't see how this will work out for the Republicans. From an outsiders perspective, it's not that critiquing Obamacare is wrong, but the fact that they have no viable alternatives and are resisting based purely of ideological lunacy. Selfish.
 
Jobbs said:
Congress has been funding the government through continuing resolutions to fund current programs and keep the lights on. I think it's a much lower bar to just fund the status quo than it is to demand radical changes in spending levels, elimination of programs, or other unrelated partisan demands like cutting obamacare as a condition of funding the government. The senate passed a clean bill to maintain current funding levels and keep the lights on; Republicans won't do it. I don't see that the 1995 comparison is relevant. If republicans passed a bill to fund the status quo to keep the lights on Clinton would not have vetoed it.

My point is that brinksmanship like shutting down the government or threatening default are not appropriate bargaining chips to enact changes to policy or creation/elimination of programs or radical changes to spending levels. That should be done completely separately. Have your debate, appeal to the voters, whatever. Don't engage in this.
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There you go. That's the problem right there. There is NO budget process any more. Just continuing resolutions of current funding levels. No debate allowed. By not drafting budgets, the Democrats have completely broken the system. And that's coming from a non-partisan.
 
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