US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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Bluemercury said:
So the Republicans are against people having healthcare, is that it?
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No. Republicans are mad because a right wing health care plan from the 90s (a health care plan their 2012 nominee for president championed while he was a governor) they used to want was made into law. Why are they mad? Why do they act like it's the socialist left wing apocalypse? Because Obama did it. That's it. That's all.

Obama = bad, therefore "Obamacare" is the worst thing ever.

It's the biggest farce in politics.

So basically if you don't have money to get treated, you're dead. am i right?
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You'll still get treated in some cases. You'll just get shitty care, and chances are you'll die bankrupt.
 
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
There you go. That's the problem right there. There is NO budget process any more. Just continuing resolutions of current funding levels. No debate allowed. By not drafting budgets, the Democrats have completely broken the system. And that's coming from a non-partisan.
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True. That said, the Senate (finally) passed a budget 6 months ago and the republicans have refused to go into conference with them on it.

Either way, if it has to be a CR, then so be it. Don't involve regular innocent people in your political fight and hurt them. It's not okay.
 
Bluemercury said:
So the Republicans are against people having healthcare, is that it?So basically if you don't have money to get treated, you're dead. am i right?
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I wonder about individual cases too but you never hear about all those people who can't afford life saving care.
Maybe because the American public doesn't really want to be exposed to it's collective guilt. At least one first step is done now. I guess a lot of GOP's will change their mind anyway in the next few hours when they'll be in emergency for cardiac arrest because of the horrors of health care.
 
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
That's some non-binding blueprint shit and it only passed by 1 vote and had no chance of passing. I'm talking a real budget process.
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Bluemercury said:
So the Republicans are against people having healthcare, is that it?So basically if you don't have money to get treated, you're dead. am i right?
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Yes. It is evil basically. Text book evil. Yet people still vote for this party time and time again, amazing right?
 
Tzeentch said:
The polls are hardly as friendly to the Democrats on this shutdown issue as you would imagine from the usual GAF echo chamber...
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Might want to run your eye over the latest Quinnipiac.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ppose-government-shutdown-tied-to-health-care

By 72 percent to 22 percent, Americans oppose Congress “shutting down major activities of the federal government” as a way to stop the Affordable Care Act from going into effect, the national survey from Quinnipiac University found.
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Voters prefer a Democratic House candidate to a Republican by 43 percent to 34 percent, the Quinnipiac poll found. The Democratic edge stems in part from the poor national image of the Republican Party, which voters disapprove of by 74 percent to 17 percent. Sixty percent of voters dislike the job Democrats are doing, compared with 32 percent who approve.
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That's a record low for the GOP, by the way.
 
Clevinger said:
No. Republicans are mad because a right wing health care plan from the 90s (a health care plan their 2012 nominee for president championed while he was a governor) they used to want was made into law. Why are they mad? Why do they act like it's the socialist left wing apocalypse? Because Obama did it. That's it. That's all.

Obama = bad, therefore "Obamacare" is the worst thing ever.

It's the biggest farce in politics.

You'll still get treated in some cases. You'll just get shitty care, and chances are you'll die bankrupt.
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Wait, what? Can you get me more info on this, I've seriously never heard of it.
 
I guess this will suck for my parent's who are physically and legally disabled and still have a 12yo daughter to take care off, who cant work and who have a type of food assistance service,


Edit: on phone sorry for typos.
 
Soka said:
Wait, what? Can you get me more info on this, I've seriously never heard of it.
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A decent little summary. Basically, it was the Republicans' plan as a counter to the left wing plan of universal health care (what Canada and the UK has, which is actually socialist, where everyone has free health care). The country moved far to the right by the time Obama became president, and being the conservative Democrat he is his health care plan was an old Republican one. Current Repulicans pretend to hate it because Obama IS THE WORST MOST SOCIALIST LEFT WING LEFTY THAT EVER PINKO COMMIED. In reality, it's a pretty good deal for them and they should be happy. But that faux outrage gets them a lot of votes and donation money.
 
Shake Appeal said:
A few decades ago, something like 'Obamacare' was Republicans' alternative to just having a comprehensive single-payer solution like the rest of the developed world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/o...-conservatives-dream.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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And Mitt Romney's signature accomplishment while governor of massachusetts was a state wide health care system similar to Obamacare (Obamacare was somewhat modeled after it).

Soon as he ran for president, of course, Obamacare became the devil!
 
All of which is why, when you hear Ted Cruz or his ilk spout about how the public disapproves of Obamacare, you should break down the numbers. Because close to a solid fifth of the population, including every leftist I know, disapproves of Obamacare because it doesn't go far enough.
 
Shake Appeal said:
All of which is why, when you hear Ted Cruz or his ilk spout about how the public disapproves of Obamacare, you should break down the numbers. Because close to a solid fifth of the population, including every leftist I know, disapproves of Obamacare because it doesn't go far enough.
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Should be single payer which makes this shutdown even more embarrassing.
 
Shake Appeal said:
All of which is why, when you hear Ted Cruz or his ilk spout about how the public disapproves of Obamacare, you should break down the numbers. Because close to a solid fifth of the population, including every leftist I know, disapproves of Obamacare because it doesn't go far enough.
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I'm sorta in that camp. I think it's probably better than having absolutely nothing, but it seems stupid and needlessly convoluted. There's no rational argument in favor of the continued existence of private health insurance companies -- in my view. They are just there to take money out of healthcare. They don't innovate anything, create anything, cure anything. They just take money, and profit more the more care they deny.
 
Timedog said:
Whoa yeah! I want to fight guys that are for some reason like 20 feet tall too.
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No way am I fighting Devil Rebirth though.
ICKE said:
Here's a timeline prediction for everyone.

-At first the shutdown will have little effect. Politicians will make statements defending their positions, libertarians will scream "see we told you, the whole public sector was nothing but an expensive illusion - lets close the shop completely"

-Tuesday <-> Friday. The spectacle begins. You will witness federal employees leaving their work places via CNN broadcast. National parks will close their gates. there will be less traffic but no major inconveniences. Both political parties will stand firm. The anxiety won't really kick into high gear as weekend arrives (a time when federal agencies are closed)

-Monday. Political Armageddon begins

There will frustration, panic and anger. People will realize what the shutdown means. Another week without getting paid, without having their documents processed, no nothing.

At this point citizens will wake up from their slumber :

"This is a bad situation. Our restaurant, which is next to a big government building, is completely empty."

"I know Mike, we are getting no action either. The federal agencies are closed and we have no customers. I'm not getting my tax refunds to boot"

"Guys. I'm working in that building and need money to support my family, I can't afford to just do nothing for another week"

As government employees stay home all over the country, people will demand answers from their elected officials. Why are they playing theater instead of governing?

Then it will only take a handful of House republicans to end the situation. How long will it take before they compromise? I'd say less than one day.
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Thanks for the write-up. It's going to be a loooong week for some people.
 
Jobbs said:
I'm sorta in that camp. I think it's probably better than having absolutely nothing, but it seems stupid and needlessly convoluted. There's no rational argument in favor of the continued existence of private health insurance companies -- in my view. They are just there to take money out of healthcare. They don't innovate anything, create anything, cure anything. They just take money, and profit more the more care they deny.
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I think a ton of dems agree with you. However, it's still far better to have Obamacare as the baseline for years and decades down the road. Just like medicare, people who hate it now won't be able to imagine life without it in 5-10 years.
 
Shake Appeal said:
All of which is why, when you hear Ted Cruz or his ilk spout about how the public disapproves of Obamacare, you should break down the numbers. Because close to a solid fifth of the population, including every leftist I know, disapproves of Obamacare because it doesn't go far enough.
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Only 11% in that category according to CNN.
Ted Cruz is just looking out for those people too.
 
skeebs said:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-quietly-deletes-reference-free-health-care_757348.html
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Since President Obama has been emphasizing of late how inexpensive Obamacare will be for many Americans, advertising the availability of "free" health care might have been viewed as a deterrent to purchasing even the least expensive option from the government-run exchanges. Since the "bronze" and "silver" level plans that the president has recently been touting as equaling "the cost of your cable bill" and "less than your cell phone bill" will still entail significant out-of-pocket costs for medical care, "free" might still look more attractive to many on the lower end of the income scale. It may be that community health centers will still offer free care to some, but visitors to Healthcare.gov will no longer be made aware of the option
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.
Because some people only read the heading.
 
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Only 11% in that category according to CNN.
Ted Cruz is just looking out for those people too.
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Ted Cruz is damn moron who misrepresents the facts to serve his and the Tea Party's warped political agenda without any sort of care for what the American people, or even his own state want. I say this as a Texan. I was saddened the day he won the Republican primary and then went on to win the Senate seat.
 
Bodacious said:
So if Democrats pass a budget with lots of spending the Republicans don't like, it's the Republicans' responsibility to bite the bullet and pass it anyway to prevent a shutdown. But if Republicans pass a budget with lots of cuts the Democrats don't like, it's only natural to veto it and force a shutdown.

OK.

Anyway, I didn't say it was 'no big deal.' I guess I'm just jaded, i.e. seen too many of these pissing contests to take it seriously. Democrats gonna be Democrats, Republicans gonna be Republicans. I'm gonna be eatin' lunch at about 11:45am, same as yesterday.


.
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I despise the "neither side is perfect, so I do not need to get engaged and pick a side" viewpoint.
 
This is a sad day in this country's history.

I'm very tired of this constant financial doomsday that keeps happening every few months. Fiscal cliff, Debt ceiling and now a gov shutdown.
 
Also...just so we're clear. The Republicans right? The GOP? Or are some of you a little bit on the fence about that?
 
Remmy2112 said:
Ted Cruz is damn moron who misrepresents the facts to serve his and the Tea Party's warped political agenda without any sort of care for what the American people, or even his own state want. I say this as a Texan. I was saddened the day he won the Republican primary and then went on to win the Senate seat.
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Yeah many republicans I have talked to say that this shutdown was the last thing they wanted to happen, and the so called Ted Cruz agenda whatever the hell that is, is not the republican agenda.
 
Stock futures are up and essential workers are going to work. all this sky is falling talk is ridiculous. I stand by this lasting at most a week.
 
i may be going against the grain here (i havent read thread, so don't all jump at once) but is the consensus that this is primarily the fault of the administration and senate dems? the GOP wants some common sense reforms for the ACA so employers arent crushed and individuals forced into a not-ready-for-primetime and byzantine system and the dems refuse to compromise?
 
Incognito said:
i may be going against the grain here (i havent read thread, so don't all jump at once) but is the consensus that this is primarily the fault of the administration and senate dems? the GOP wants some common sense reforms for the ACA so employers arent crushed and individuals forced into a not-ready-for-primetime and byzantine system and the dems refuse to compromise?
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Incognito
Troll
 
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