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[Brian Griffin]

I know I'll be met with jokes, but why would the guy actively put any blame at all on that park worker? Is there a layer I'm missing here? They had less than zero to do with what's happening.

Because he's a cowardly piece of shit with no shame. The rep caused the shutdown so his mission now is to blame anyone that is not himself and hope people believe him.

People are comparing them to cartoon villains but at least the they owned up to their evil plans. The GOP are honestly trying to tell people, with a straight face, that it's not their fault.

 

[mattiewheels]

Because he's a cowardly piece of shit with no shame. The rep caused the shutdown so his mission now is to blame anyone that is not himself and hope people believe him.

I'm glad the crowd gave it right back to him, that's the most misguided PR stunt I've heard of in a long long time. The park workers should be asking that guy to apologize to them, not the other way around.

 

[Liberty4all]

If Obama's unwilling to use the 14th amendment or any other tricks (and he's messaging very, very aggressively that he is unwilling to do so), then the end result is economic calamity of an unforeseen but definitely terrible level.

The United States dollar is the currency of last resort because US bonds are considered as good as cash -- the assumption is that they have about a 0% chance of defaulting. If they default, it's actually pretty difficult to say what would happen. People would probably sell all their US bonds and buy some other kind of currency or bonds -- China's a popular suggestion, although their current economic situation might give some pause. This would potentially cause a significant loss in value for the US dollar and everything that pegs to it, is tied to it, or is a derivative of it (or a derivative of any of THOSE, etc.).

In terms of America, we would be permanently impoverished as a nation from the collapse of the dollar, the loss of our status as currency of last resort, and our necessarily increased borrowing costs.

Personally, I think that Obama's messaging so aggressively about not being willing to use the 14th amendment that he might be covering up a willingness to use it. This might be wishful thinking, but frankly, I think you'd have to be an idiot to trust the House to handle this at this point.

The cost of using the 14th amendment is that they try to impeach Obama (which fails), tying up the rest of his term. There would probably be political costs as well. On the other hand, the argument would be that Obama overstepped his authority by SAVING THE WORLD, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

I just worry there are some Republicans in Congress that actually think that this needs to be done (refusing to raise debt ceiling) for "the good of the nation".

Worry what the consequences will be in the US as well as world wide (or at least up here in Canada). An unstable United States government is the last thing the world needs right now.

 

[Pyrokai]

Is there ANY sign of something good? Anything at all?

I don't know why, but I'm literally feeling sick about this stuff. Like, I'm panicking and feel nauseous. What can I do to calm myself? Someone comfort me

 

[Rubenov]

I just worry there are some Republicans in Congress that actually think that this needs to be done (refusing to raise debt ceiling) for "the good of the nation".

As crazy as they are, I don't think they are at that level. Some of their constituents, yes, but not true for most Repubs.

 

[pigeon]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

 

[Rubenov]

Is there ANY sign of something good? Anything at all?

I don't know why, but I'm literally feeling sick about this stuff. Like, I'm panicking and feel nauseous. What can I do to calm myself? Someone comfort me

You're feeling sick? Too bad. The TEA Party is here to take back America!

 

[Riki]

If the Republicans refuse to budge on this or raising the debt ceiling what's the end result?

Economic ruin?

Civil unrest?

Arrest of Congress members and forcing through the legislation?

14th Amendment?

Civil war?


I'm just trying to get a grasp on how this will shake out if worse comes to worse and they really are willing to take us to the brink of disaster.

Country sucks for a decade or so. Republicans finally go the way of the dinosaur.

I almost want it to happen, just to see the country kick the shit out of these idiots...
We need a new revolution and maybe this will be the match that starts the fire.

 

[Rubenov]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

He contradicts himself and fumbles all over.

I'm just a poor schmuck and I'd make a better politician than this guy.

 

[BLACKLAC]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

That made no sense, these idiots have no clue.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Better start saving up my nuka cola caps

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I don't even care how authoritarian this is, if the Republicans refuse to raise the debt limit in time, they should be labeled as terrorists and traitors, forcibly removed from office, and tried for terrorism.

Spoiler

or thrown into gitmo that they won't close

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

"A CR is a blank check." Oh, ok.

 

[slit]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

A clean CR is a blank check for Obama? Jim Jones didn't have this kind of mind control.

 

[BakedSardine]

I think it's really, really shitty that these guys on the floor of congress are whining about national parks like that's the real problem here, not the families going without paychecks or the aid that keeps their kids from starving.

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

 

[Riki]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

Uhhhhh...
So, you're comparing the millions that are without WIC cards, Head Start and many other government programs to drug dealers...
Is this real life?

 

[commedieu]

Incidentally, if you're curious, here's a GOP representative explaining why they can't pass a clean CR now.

http://m.soundcloud.com/toddzwillich-1/meadows1-shutdown-wav

i just want to beat the shit out of my keyboard out of frustration. But it really didnt do anyh24r52#54@#%%#@%##d,cd,c3,12125ry80r21 9urjpto p
psgpoj t6j23jm332mrmdsms.35m23m%%

*sigh* sorry keyboard.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

a) It doesn't need to change at all.

b) Really?

 

[Pyrokai]

Oh god.......this is like an action thriller and I'm on the edge of my seat.....but this gives me a slight sigh of relief, albeit tiny....

 

[Pimpwerx]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

Government can shrink. Axe half the military spending. That'll fix a big problem with the deficit. Oh wait...Republicans don't want that. PEACE.

 

[User 100115]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Government is there for a reason, and people have jobs...for a reason. Sure, those people going without paychecks MIGHT get their paychecks, you know, if they were those lucky enough to be deemed essential, someday. Most of those working at that level, however, live paycheck to paycheck out of necessity, and are therefore, completely fucked in the interim. Not to mention those deemed not essential have basically lost their jobs for now. How is that less important than boo hoo, some parks are shut down and people can't visit?

 

[Konka]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

I can't imagine being a person that thinks like this. It hurts my head.

 

[Riki]

Government can shrink. Axe half the military spending. That'll fix a big problem with the deficit. Oh wait...Republicans don't want that. PEACE.

Heck, you could cut it more than half and it would still probably be too much.
How military spending got so out of hand is beyond me. And then we spend even more by being the world police and just fucking everything up.

 

[NullPointer]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Government is the people working collectively, not for profit, nor for the tenets of any religion, to provide the fruits of civilization to all of its people.

if anything it should keep growing in stature and capabilities.

 

[MThanded]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

You are out of touch. This is one of the most asinine things I have ever heard.

I'm going to assume you don't know how many people the government employs or the impact WIC and other services.

I also think you are really overestimating the impact of Silk Road. If you knew how many people have no idea what the deep web is you would think otherwise.

 

[Cyan]

If Obama's unwilling to use the 14th amendment or any other tricks (and he's messaging very, very aggressively that he is unwilling to do so), then the end result is economic calamity of an unforeseen but definitely terrible level.

The United States dollar is the currency of last resort because US bonds are considered as good as cash -- the assumption is that they have about a 0% chance of defaulting. If they default, it's actually pretty difficult to say what would happen. People would probably sell all their US bonds and buy some other kind of currency or bonds -- China's a popular suggestion, although their current economic situation might give some pause. This would potentially cause a significant loss in value for the US dollar and everything that pegs to it, is tied to it, or is a derivative of it (or a derivative of any of THOSE, etc.).

In terms of America, we would be permanently impoverished as a nation from the collapse of the dollar, the loss of our status as currency of last resort, and our necessarily increased borrowing costs.

Personally, I think that Obama's messaging so aggressively about not being willing to use the 14th amendment that he might be covering up a willingness to use it. This might be wishful thinking, but frankly, I think you'd have to be an idiot to trust the House to handle this at this point.

The cost of using the 14th amendment is that they try to impeach Obama (which fails), tying up the rest of his term. There would probably be political costs as well. On the other hand, the argument would be that Obama overstepped his authority by SAVING THE WORLD, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

I think you're overstating it, pidge. People aren't going to sell all their bonds and find another reserve currency in the event of a default. A default just means we are at least temporarily not paying our debt service. This would look really bad, and probably spike interest rates, which would have a lot of other nasty knock-on effects, but I think we're looking at a worst-case scenario of a repeat of the 07-08 credit crunch. Granted, that would be plenty bad enough, but I don't think we would see a collapse of the dollar or the permanent impoverishment of America. Maybe if we wrote off all of our debt, but there's no chance of that happening regardless of debt ceilings and government shutdowns.

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

"The government shouldn't arbitrarily be shut down because that causes direct harm to people" != "the government should never shrink."

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

Ok, I think you might be projecting here. It's been estimated that if the government shutdown lasted a month, that would cut 1.4% from GDP growth for the quarter. That's a pretty heavy hit, and we're all going to feel it. Silk Road users number, from what I can find, in the hundreds of thousands if we include casual or one-time users and duplicate accounts. This is a pretty silly comparison.

 

[Ryu751]

Guys....


........I'm really afraid

Me too man. This just seems like the spark that could lead to some bad times. The thing that is so worrisome is these Tea party people want us to default and bring all spending down. It sucks we need to borrow money to run the government I get that, but you always make that minimum payment on that credit card or it gets ugly fast.

 

[kirblar]

So I've been a little bit out of the loop, what message are democrats and republicans going with today? I read that republicans are now saying they are "willing to compromise". What are democrats putting out there?

They have enough votes from GOP defectors to pass a clean bill.

The problem is that the tea party crazypants wing has a intra-party majority of the GOP majority, and Boehner is afraid of losing his speakership if he doesn't give in to their demands and keep the legislation from coming to the floor.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I feel for the families that are going without paychecks, I really do. But if this is the logic that pervades those upset about the shutdown, is it your contention that government should never shrink or should only shrink by attrition?

Outside of those directly having their paychecks suspended (no doubt they will get that pay - no Congressman up for election in 2014 will vote against it), more people are probably affected by the shutdown of The Silk Road and our government.

Dude 7% of the labor force is either employed by the federal government or works primarily on federal government contracts. It's not some tiny microcosm of the country that's affected here

 

[Riki]

They have enough votes from GOP defectors to pass a clean bill.

The problem is that the tea party crazypants wing has a intra-party majority of the GOP majority, and Boehner is afraid of losing his speakership if he doesn't give in to their demands and keep the legislation from coming to the floor.

If his career isn't over after this, I don't know what to say. How can anyone want this piece of shit to even run a dog grooming service.

 

[Armoured Priest]

This may sound trite, guys, but seriously...pay attention and see what's happening. This is history happening before your eyes. I would not be surprised if this ends up in text books and learned about in schools...hopefully to a good end.

Yeah, I'm a little nervous. So far they're holding, but really Dems need to not cave on this one.

 

[kirblar]

This may sound trite, guys, but seriously...pay attention and see what's happening. This is history happening before your eyes. I would not be surprised if this ends up in text books and learned about in schools...hopefully to a good end.

Yeah, I'm a little nervous. So far they're holding, but really Dems need to not cave on this one.

They have the votes. They have no reason to cave. This is totally about the GOP civil war spilling over and making everyone's lives hell.

 

[Eusis]

Government is the people working collectively, not for profit, nor for the tenets of any religion, to provide the fruits of civilization to all of its people.

if anything it should keep growing in stature and capabilities.

Unfortunately it's still run by humans (not that I'm sure perfect machines or beings would really help us feel better) so it's not going to turn out that ideal. Problem being that some of these people, namely the Tea Party, are essentially taking a VERY pessimistic stance here, not so much "let's be cautious about how we grow the government" as I'd think the ideal conservative stance should be, but "fuck the government lets take it apart" for reasons that can be just as bad and frequently worse with the private sector.

 

[Riki]

This may sound trite, guys, but seriously...pay attention and see what's happening. This is history happening before your eyes. I would not be surprised if this ends up in text books and learned about in schools...hopefully to a good end.

Yeah, I'm a little nervous. So far they're holding, but really Dems need to not cave on this one.

Hopefully under a chapter titled "The fall of the GOP and the Tea Party: How the United States Became a True Free Country."

 

[human onion]

I hope this all ends soon. The incident in D.C. (although it might not have anything to do with this) combined with the idea of the government just outright shutting down isn't pleasant. Hopefully what comes out of this is a lesson learned in partisanship.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Repubs are seriously imploding. So many of the media outlets are outright crucifying these fucks more than usual, and you have the common sense crowd just bewildered at how stupid they all are. It will take more at this point for them to turn around in peoples eyes than to implode and die. Fuckers.

 

[Pimpwerx]

This may sound trite, guys, but seriously...pay attention and see what's happening. This is history happening before your eyes. I would not be surprised if this ends up in text books and learned about in schools...hopefully to a good end.

Yeah, I'm a little nervous. So far they're holding, but really Dems need to not cave on this one.

This won't make the history books. This will go down as just another sad episode in modern democracy. The more the needle sways to the right (our "liberals" are considered moderate in many countries), the more the radicals will get a voice. This will all be buried under the next Manziel or Miley newsertainment story that happens in a few months. History books are for stuff like 9/11 and the stock market crash. Mental midgets acting like children for a week or two will be a footnote in some badly written internet blog. PEACE.

 

[Wilsongt]

Ted Cruz has been noticeably quiet since Sunday. I bet he knows that there are people who want his head and ass on a silver platter.

 

[kirblar]

This won't make the history books. This will go down as just another sad episode in modern democracy. The more the needle sways to the right (our "liberals" are considered moderate in many countries), the more the radicals will get a voice. This will all be buried under the next Manziel or Miley newsertainment story that happens in a few months. History books are for stuff like 9/11 and the stock market crash. Mental midgets acting like children for a week or two will be a footnote in some badly written internet blog. PEACE.

The needle isn't swaying to the right, though. People under 40 are massively liberal, and it's why the GOP is taking to many desperate measures- they're literally dying off because they disgust so many of the younger generations.

 

[watershed]

Repubs are seriously imploding. So many of the media outlets are outright crucifying these fucks more than usual, and you have the common sense crowd just bewildered at how stupid they all are. It will take more at this point for them to turn around in peoples eyes than to implode and die. Fuckers.

So the media has finally quit with their "both sides are at fault" crap? I hate that equivocating narrative they always take even when one side is clearly at fault.

Edit: Obama is on point with this speech here, including calling for Boehner to just bring the clean CR to a vote.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...pdate-2013-obama-republicans-97799.html?hp=l2

 

[Brian Griffin]

Repubs are seriously imploding. So many of the media outlets are outright crucifying these fucks more than usual, and you have the common sense crowd just bewildered at how stupid they all are. It will take more at this point for them to turn around in peoples eyes than to implode and die. Fuckers.

Only if people don't forget, which they have a terrible tendency to do. Someone needs to get a Octover 1st 2013: GOP Shutdown : Never Forget meme going. With a crying bald eagle and everything.

 

[SpeedySwaf]

So the media has finally quit with their "both sides are at fault" crap? I hate that equivocating narrative they always take even when one side is clearly at fault.

Haven't followed the media, but someone said Wolf Blitzer had laid much of the blame on Republicans earlier today.

 

[Pimpwerx]

The needle isn't swaying to the right, though. People under 40 are massively liberal, and it's why the GOP is taking to many desperate measures- they're literally dying off because they disgust so many of the younger generations.

I admire your optimism, and hope you're right. My cynical side thinks the radicals are going to continue to gain power. PEACE.

 

[kirblar]

I admire your optimism, and hope you're right. My cynical side thinks the radicals are going to continue to gain power. PEACE.

I'm no optimist. It's just nice to have the data on your side.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

If Obama's unwilling to use the 14th amendment or any other tricks (and he's messaging very, very aggressively that he is unwilling to do so), then the end result is economic calamity of an unforeseen but definitely terrible level.

The United States dollar is the currency of last resort because US bonds are considered as good as cash -- the assumption is that they have about a 0% chance of defaulting. If they default, it's actually pretty difficult to say what would happen. People would probably sell all their US bonds and buy some other kind of currency or bonds -- China's a popular suggestion, although their current economic situation might give some pause. This would potentially cause a significant loss in value for the US dollar and everything that pegs to it, is tied to it, or is a derivative of it (or a derivative of any of THOSE, etc.).

In terms of America, we would be permanently impoverished as a nation from the collapse of the dollar, the loss of our status as currency of last resort, and our necessarily increased borrowing costs.

Personally, I think that Obama's messaging so aggressively about not being willing to use the 14th amendment that he might be covering up a willingness to use it. This might be wishful thinking, but frankly, I think you'd have to be an idiot to trust the House to handle this at this point.

The cost of using the 14th amendment is that they try to impeach Obama (which fails), tying up the rest of his term. There would probably be political costs as well. On the other hand, the argument would be that Obama overstepped his authority by SAVING THE WORLD, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

China has defaulted before and is a major player today, so I'd say just a generation. Maybe a few decades...

 

[Dryk]

Only if people don't forget, which they have a terrible tendency to do. Someone needs to get a Octover 1st 2013: GOP Shutdown : Never Forget meme going. With a crying bald eagle and everything.

The last time the right blocked supply in Australia (in an attempt to gain power) the people played into their hands and voted them in. People don't make all that much sense.

 

[Rubenov]

The last time the right blocked supply in Australia (in an attempt to gain power) the people played into their hands and voted them in. People don't make all that much sense.

What a depressing thought.

I don't think that's happening here though.

 

[Tesseract]

this cspan 2 aca panel is fucking excellent.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

The last time the right blocked supply in Australia (in an attempt to gain power) the people played into their hands and voted them in. People don't make all that much sense.

What a depressing thought.

I don't think that's happening here though.

I'm not sure that's an especially relevant comparison. As someone who isn't that up to speed with US politics I'd imagine 96 is the more applicable example.

 

[FyreWulff]

Unfortunately it's still run by humans (not that I'm sure perfect machines or beings would really help us feel better) so it's not going to turn out that ideal. Problem being that some of these people, namely the Tea Party, are essentially taking a VERY pessimistic stance here, not so much "let's be cautious about how we grow the government" as I'd think the ideal conservative stance should be, but "fuck the government lets take it apart" for reasons that can be just as bad and frequently worse with the private sector.

When I was still registered Republican (it's pretty much the default party of my state), my idea was more "tax control" than "tax cut". You know, actual fiscal conservatism, not fiscal brinksmanship. You know, find a need. Can we cover it with existing taxes? Okay, don't raise taxes. Do we need more money for it? Construct a new tax that will help pay for it and spread out the cost effectively as possible.

The eternal "tax cuts forever, and more cuts on top of the ones we already have" sound good in campaigns but are irresponsible and costly. Around here, people insisted on blocking and cutting taxes. Much like the GOP. The city came back and said okay.. but now we have to shut down all the swimming pools a month early, because we don't have the money. Much like we just closed our parks. And now the GOP is whining the parks are closed... much like people bitched the pools were now closed. They want tax cuts but keep all the 'nice' stuff at the same time, and it's just impossible to do that. If you want nice, you have to pay for nice.

The Tea Party wants nice without having to pay for it. At either the funding or the tax paying level.