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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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Konka said:
"Sen. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) says he'd vote for a clean debt ceiling increase and vote for cloture, making him the first R to say so"


"Democrats will need 6 GOP votes to stop filibuster on debt ceiling. McCain says he may be one, but: "I want to see what the dynamic is.""
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McCain is a slimy, pandering piece of shit
 
Ken Masters said:
It doesn't matter if it's Obama's fault or not at this point, if America defaults his entire legacy would be forever ruined and would be humiliated. He has no choice but to talk at this point because he's going up against ideologues, not realists
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If Obama capitulates his legacy would be the president who allowed the government to forever cease to function properly.
 
Style Fox said:
I couldn't disagree more. The precedent that would be set by this is just as dangerous to America as the default.
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Too bad the Democrats haven't countered with an offer to allow the Fed to directly the credit the Treasury and avoid debt altogether. You know, since Republicans are so concerned about debt.
 
Could we stop some of the petty House of Rep. politics by requiring the Speaker of the House to be elected with 66% of the Representatives? Basically requiring someone who is nearly independent of both of the caucuses?

That way we can stop all this Hasert Rule bullshit and get back to voting based on compromises that maybe half of each caucus could agree to.
 
helloresolven said:
Could we stop some of the petty House of Rep. politics by requiring the Speaker of the House to be elected with 66% of the Representatives? Basically requiring someone who is nearly independent of both of the caucuses?

That way we can stop all this Hasert Rule bullshit and get back to voting based on compromises that maybe half of each caucus could agree to.
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Supermajorities don't work.
 
Black Mamba said:
If Obama capitulates his legacy would be the president who allowed the government to forever cease to function properly.
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He's not in an easy position. He's basically at the will boehner to grow a set against the tea party. If boehner changes his mind now he will look like a fool for agreeing with Ted Cruz in the first place, boehner doesn't want to be made to look a fool and be a Teaparty enemy
 
helloresolven said:
Could we stop some of the petty House of Rep. politics by requiring the Speaker of the House to be elected with 66% of the Representatives? Basically requiring someone who is nearly independent of both of the caucuses?

That way we can stop all this Hasert Rule bullshit and get back to voting based on compromises that maybe half of each caucus could agree to.
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Nope, got continue the drift towards parliamentarism
 
Ken Masters said:
It doesn't matter if it's Obama's fault or not at this point, if America defaults his entire legacy would be forever ruined and would be humiliated. He has no choice but to talk at this point because he's going up against ideologues, not realists
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Obama ceding any position under economic and governmental threat and paving the way for any Congress to shut down the government at will to steamroll any bill and democratic process would be far, far worse for the country than defaulting.
 
kirblar said:
Supermajorities don't work.
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I'm only wanting a supermajority for the Speakership. That way the chosen Speaker wouldn't be beholden to the extreme interests of one party, since the other party had to provide support for him too.

I guess it is just upsetting that we've gerrymandered our House into a nearly 50-50 split, but yet whichever sides get the 50+1 wields far more power than they actually earned.
 
Ken Masters said:
He's not in an easy position. He's basically at the will boehner to grow a set against the tea party. If boehner changes his mind now he will look like a fool for agreeing with Ted Cruz in the first place, boehner doesn't want to be made to look a fool and be a Teaparty enemy
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He already looks like an out of control fool.
 
Ken Masters said:
He's not in an easy position. He's basically at the will boehner to grow a set against the tea party. If boehner changes his mind now he will look like a fool for agreeing with Ted Cruz in the first place, boehner doesn't want to be made to look a fool and be a Teaparty enemy
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boehner already looks like a fool. he allowed a fringe part of his party to hijack the country's wellbeing and fucking went along with it for no good reason. now his party's getting the well-deserved blame for this shit because of his lack of foresight.

there is no compromise here. boehner has to get his shitheads in line.
 
AniHawk said:
boehner already looks like a fool. he allowed a fringe part of his party to hijack the country's wellbeing and fucking went along with it for no good reason. now his party's getting the well-deserved blame for this shit because of his lack of foresight.

there is no compromise here. boehner has to get his shitheads in line.
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Fenderputty said:
He already looks like an out of control fool.
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You think he cares of he looks like a fool as long as he remains speaker? You're sadly mistaken

EatinOlives said:
Obama ceding any position under economic and governmental threat and paving the way for any Congress to shut down the government at will to steamroll any bill and democratic process would be far, far worse for the country than defaulting.
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Then I guess Obama will have to deal with the default
 
Ken Masters said:
He's not in an easy position. He's basically at the will boehner to grow a set against the tea party. If boehner changes his mind now he will look like a fool for agreeing with Ted Cruz in the first place, boehner doesn't want to be made to look a fool and be a Teaparty enemy
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And???? Obama caving would end our democratic process for all intents and purposes. I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation.

At least if we hit the debt ceiling Obama can ignore it. Boehner at the last minute will will either act to try to end it or the party will implode.

The only bad move Obama can make is to negotiate or cave.
 
Fenderputty said:
No I think he's egotistical enough to not give a shit. I don't understand it on a personal level. One man's ego should not be so important. These are the people we put in office. :(
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And ultimately is ROOT of all this, the American voters put these people in office and according to statistics, 90+% of them will always be back
 
Hawkian said:
Jon Stewart really held Kathleen Sibelius' feet to the fire about the legislation from a non-crazy perspective, and made sort of an impassioned plea for single payer. Was really interesting to see. She did make a kind of point, look how much of a crisis they're threatening for just a purely private-enterprise marketplace. But he was generally a little offended by her basically sticking to the talking points (not that I would expect anything else).
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It kind of annoyed me how Jon kept asking "why not delay the individual mandate?" as opposed to asking the better question; "why did you delay the employer mandate?"
 
SteveWinwood said:
What happened to the treat government like a household? What happens when you don't pay your credit card, house, car, whatever payments on time?

oh nothing its not a big deal for the household
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Call me crazy but getting another credit card and running it up too is usually not the answer to that.

Maybe not the best analogy.
 
Ken Masters said:
If a republican runs against another republican and has an ad saying they supported obamacare during the government shutdown...they're dead, doesn't matter how much campaign funding they get
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Funding the government != supporting the ACA.

I understand this comes as a shock to a great many people, but its true..
 
empty vessel said:
Too bad the Democrats haven't countered with an offer to allow the Fed to directly the credit the Treasury and avoid debt altogether. You know, since Republicans are so concerned about debt.
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But how will the bankers rob the American people by loaning money to the government they didn't have in the first place?
 
9006088.jpg
 
someone in DC should throw up a bat signal so Obama can display some damn leadership for once. 9 days away from a full blown, self-inflicted economic disaster and this guy is out there golfing and telepromptin'. smh.
 
Incognito said:
someone in DC should throw up a bat signal so Obama can display some damn leadership for once. 9 days away from a full blown, self-inflicted economic disaster and this guy is out there golfing and telepromptin'. smh.
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yeah allowing people to pay for cheaper health insurance is such a bad thing, am right
 
leadership, in my view, is the ability to appropriately discern the objectives of the actors you are negotiating with and then be able to provide concessions they will accept that at the same time prove palatable to your side. obama, imho, has shown none of these traits in office. in fact, quite the opposite. he's in this position because republicans have been steamrolling him for a good 4 years, now. republicans rightly believed he would cave given past behavior but i guess the arrogance earned from a close reelection victory has provided obama with a new, dangerous outlook on how government is supposed to work. of all the times to take a stand, it's over the debt ceiling? he should have dropped the gauntlet to disgruntled republicans on day 1, in 2009 so as to disabuse them of any notion that he could be trifled with.
 
Incognito said:
leadership, in my view, is the ability to appropriately discern the objectives of the actors you are negotiating with and then be able to provide concessions they will accept that at the same time prove palatable to your side. obama, imho, has shown none of these traits in office. in fact, quite the opposite. he's in this position because republicans have been steamrolling him for a good 4 years, now. republicans rightly believed he would cave given past behavior but i guess the arrogance earned from a close reelection victory has provided obama with a new, dangerous outlook on how government is supposed to work. of all the times to take a stand, it's over the debt ceiling? he should have dropped the gauntlet to disgruntled republicans on day 1, in 2009 so as to disabuse of them of any notion that he could be trifled with.
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I'm sure if he could back in time and do things differently he likely would show the balls here today, then. He just didn't expect them to take him being elected so personally.

These people GENUINELY fucking despise his very existence.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
All the Taliban want is Afghanistan, if we just give it back to them they will be happy. Is that too much to ask for?
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"Oh, you'll not kill me if you just take my legs? That seems fair."
"Oh you just took my legs but now you want my arms too? Ok I guess..."
"Look you just took my arms and legs and now you want to kill me anyway?"
 
GaimeGuy said:
McCain is a slimy, pandering piece of shit
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File under the "for what it's worth" dept.:

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), one of the harshest critics in his party over the attempts to attack Obamacare by linking it to must-pass bills, said Monday night that his colleagues were not listening to the right people.

"More important than what some of my colleagues think is what the markets think," McCain said. "And everybody I've talked on Wall Street, they will believe that it's very serious. As much as I appreciate all the elder statesmen in my party, what I respect more is what I'm hearing from my friends on Wall Street."

Still, McCain did not back moving straight to a vote to raise the debt limit, even for a brief period.

"I want to see what the dynamics of it are," McCain said. "There are too many variables for me to absolutely decide. But anything I decide will be based on the fact that we are not repealing Obamacare until we have 67 Republican votes in the United States Senate. Then we will repeal Obamacare," he said, referring to the number of lawmakers required to override a presidential veto.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/debt-ceiling-default_n_4060536.html

He seems to be pretty consistent in stating thus far that Obamacare should have nothing to do with this, so at least he's sensible about it in that regard.

The question is if he has the balls to ensure there are at least five other Republican Senators willing to adopt his position after he observes the "dynamics" of the situation.
 
Diablos said:
File under the "for what it's worth" dept.:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/debt-ceiling-default_n_4060536.html

He seems to be pretty consistent in stating thus far that Obamacare should have nothing to do with this, so at least he's sensible about it in that regard.

The question is if he has the balls to ensure there are at least five other Republican Senators willing to adopt his position after he observes the "dynamics" of the situation.
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I've already run the goddamn Laplacian McCain, I really don't think you'll like the results
 
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