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[davepoobond]

How/why did Dax get banned?

Who's that

 

[lastplayed]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9256248/Shutdown-damaging-Antarctic-research

Hundreds of United States scientists in Antarctica are facing evacuation, many of them to Christchurch, as funding dries up in Washington's continuing government shutdown.

A decision is expected by the end of the week and if scientists are forced out science media say it will be a disaster.

...

The prospect of losing an entire Antarctic field season is "just hell", said Diana Wall, an ecologist at Colorado State University in Fort Collins.

Since 1989, she has tracked fluctuations in the populations of nematodes, mites and other soil dwellers in Antarctica's Dry Valleys.

"If we are not there to capture the demographics this year, our whole data set could be unintelligible," she said.

Thanks Obama.

Spoiler

Am I doing it right?

 

[Konka]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9256248/Shutdown-damaging-Antarctic-research



Thanks Obama.

Spoiler

Am I doing it right?

Wont somebody think of the nematodes?

 

[lastplayed]

Wont somebody think of the nematodes?

It's the other soil dwellers I'm worried about.

 

[SteveWinwood]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9256248/Shutdown-damaging-Antarctic-research



Thanks Obama.

Spoiler

Am I doing it right?

This is the worst news I've heard about the shutdown

 

[Dead Man]

It's the other soil dwellers I'm worried about.

Congressional Republicans will be fine.

 

[Savitar]

Perma'd.

Holy shit.

Did she run afoul of section 31?!

Really stunned.

 

[Konka]

Congressional Republicans will be fine.

I just don't get how they can do this to their own country...unless...

...They aren't Americans at all...




My god...

They're...crab people.

 

[Vanillalite]

 

[lupin23rd]

This is the worst news I've heard about the shutdown

Find it hard to believe Lockheed has no money to keep this going a little long but ok. Maybe we tell them we found possible alien technology / weapons and they'll up the crews instead.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

I apologize if this is off-topic, but I feel the shutdown and the debt limit are very closely connected topics. Above I mentioned that the press is doing a lousy job of informing the public about the potential of default. This "debate" article is an example of what I'm talking about:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/07/politics/debt-ceiling-debate/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=1

It has a "debate" between economists (default is bad) and Tea Partners (default, shrug), and concludes with

Which side is right? Before default is reached, it's hard to know.

I feel the public is absolutely sleeping on this topic, and the press isn't helping.

But who knows? Maybe default won't be so bad. We may just find out.

 

[Ken Masters]

I truly believe republicans would have government default on their loans if Obama doesn't ever negotiate, that's how committed they are right now

I hope Obama will talk

 

[Fenderputty]

I truly believe republicans would have government default on their loans if Obama doesn't ever negotiate, that's how committed they are right now

I hope Obama will talk

Negotiate what?

 

[empty vessel]

Default on bonds really needn't be any different from default on social security checks. In fact, it's probably better in terms of the real harm to the person against whom the default occurs. And, frankly, everybody else. The reason why people think that defaulting on bonds is so egregious is because it harms rich people most (rich people are more likely to actually be owners of bonds). The truth is that, if the society understood what it was doing, bond default isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that most humans do not understand financial interactions in real terms. This includes all of the people in our government.

If we defaulted on bonds and the interest rate "spiked," a sane Congress would just pass a law requiring the Treasury to bypass the "bond market" (there is no such thing as a bond market in reality) either by minting coins or having the Fed credit the Treasury directly. Nothing changes. In fact, everything improves. Unfortunately, there's also no such thing as a sane Congress.

 

[Ken Masters]

Negotiate what?

Obamacare, I know it's law, but the tea party will never be persuaded to support it any fashion


Again, I'm not saying it's a good situation but that's the situation he's in. The tea party are controlling Washington, D.C. Right now

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I truly believe republicans would have government default on their loans if Obama doesn't ever negotiate, that's how committed they are right now

I hope Obama will talk

How much more can he negotiate than he already has. Obamacare is a stripped down mess of what it was when he introduced it, the current spending bill is down to Paul Ryan levels is cutting. What's left at this point?

He's saying what he should be saying at this point. Enough is enough. Draw a line and stick to it, if we default, history will show who caused it.

 

[Konka]

Obamacare, I know it's law, but the tea party will never be persuaded to support it any fashion


Again, I'm not saying it's a good situation but that's the situation he's in. The tea party are controlling Washington, D.C. Right now

I'd rather default than give them one single thing they ask for.

 

[th3dude]

How much more can he negotiate than he already has. Obamacare is a stripped down mess of what it was when he introduced it, the current spending bill is down to Paul Ryan levels is cutting. What's left at this point?

This times 100000. I'm so tired of hearing that the democrats and the president didn't 'negotiate'.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I truly believe republicans would have government default on their loans if Obama doesn't ever negotiate, that's how committed they are right now

I hope Obama will talk

sometimes you need to slap the crying child in the face

no you cant get the candy bar you fat little shit we just bought you a dora dvd

giving in means he can go do whatever he wants and youre a bad parent

 

[Ken Masters]

I'd rather default than give them one single thing they ask for.

A default would be worse then anything in late 2008

sometimes you need to slap the crying child in the face

no you cant get the candy bar you fat little shit we just bought you a dora dvd

giving in means he can go do whatever he wants and youre a bad parent

In this case the child has the power, so that analogy doesn't work

 

[Hawkian]

Jon Stewart really held Kathleen Sibelius' feet to the fire about the legislation from a non-crazy perspective, and made sort of an impassioned plea for single payer. Was really interesting to see. She did make a kind of point, look how much of a crisis they're threatening for just a purely private-enterprise marketplace. But he was generally a little offended by her basically sticking to the talking points (not that I would expect anything else).

 

[Black Mamba]

A default would be worse then anything in late 2008




In this case the child has the power, so that analogy doesn't work

The child has no power. If you give in now you establish that anyone can threaten economic havoc for policy and the govt can no longer function.

 

[Fenderputty]

sometimes you need to slap the crying child in the face

no you cant get the candy bar you fat little shit we just bought you a dora dvd

giving in means he can go do whatever he wants and youre a bad parent

He gave in last year with the sequester. I agree with you, but giving in is the precedence that's already been set.

 

[SteveWinwood]

In this case the child has the power, so that analogy doesn't work

the child only has the power you give it

sorry its crying annoys you and the people around you

its because you raised your child poorly

He gave in last year with the sequester. I agree with you, but giving in is the precedence that's already been set.

and needs to be corrected asap aka now

 

[Hawkian]

In this case the child has the power, so that analogy doesn't work

Have kids?

Ironically Colbert is at this moment explaining it in terms even a child could understand.

 

[EatinOlives]

Obamacare, I know it's law, but the tea party will never be persuaded to support it any fashion


Again, I'm not saying it's a good situation but that's the situation he's in. The tea party are controlling Washington, D.C. Right now

But it's the law. The Tea Party doesn't get to change that. It went through the entirety of the government's process, has passed Congress, and has been ruled constitutional.

The Tea Party are only controlling DC because the idiot Boehner is letting them control it. This has nothing to do with Obama, and there's nothing that's up for further discussion with ACA.

 

[pigeon]

You want to see something scary?

More than half of Republicans believe the debt ceiling isn't a big deal.

A plurality of Tea Partiers don't care about the economic damage of the government shutdown.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10/07/partisans-dug-in-on-budget-health-care-impasse/

 

[Ken Masters]

But it's the law. The Tea Party doesn't get to change that. It went through the entirety of the government's process, has passed Congress, and has been ruled constitutional.

The Tea Party are only controlling DC because the idiot Boehner is letting them control it. This has nothing to do with Obama, and there's nothing that's up for further discussion with ACA.

It is the law, and they should follow the proper procedures to repeal it if they want to

But they are and know that they are unique position, as a minority group, to be able to make changes without doing so and have taken advantage of it

Boehner will NOT EVER go against the tea party because he values his job, being a politician is his career and he's reached his peak, he's not going to let that go for Obama

 

[Fenderputty]

You want to see something scary?

More than half of Republicans believe the debt ceiling isn't a big deal.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10/07/partisans-dug-in-on-budget-health-care-impasse/

What's scary is that their messaging has been successful enough for their base to be this fucking stupid.

 

[SteveWinwood]

You want to see something scary?

More than half of Republicans believe the debt ceiling isn't a big deal.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10/07/partisans-dug-in-on-budget-health-care-impasse/

What happened to the treat government like a household? What happens when you don't pay your credit card, house, car, whatever payments on time?

oh nothing its not a big deal for the household

 

[Elfforkusu]

Default on bonds really needn't be any different from default on social security checks. In fact, it's probably better in terms of the real harm to the person against whom the default occurs. And, frankly, everybody else. The reason why people think that defaulting on bonds is so egregious is because it harms rich people most (rich people are more likely to actually be owners of bonds). The truth is that, if the society understood what it was doing, bond default isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that most humans do not understand financial interactions in real terms. This includes all of the people in our government.

If we defaulted on bonds and the interest rate "spiked," a sane Congress would just pass a law requiring the Treasury to bypass the "bond market" (there is no such thing as a bond market in reality) either by minting coins or having the Fed credit the Treasury directly. Nothing changes. In fact, everything improves. Unfortunately, there's also no such thing as a sane Congress.

Your post made me feel better and worse about this at exactly the same time. Thank you. I think.

 

[Fenderputty]

What happened to the treat government like a household? What happens when you don't pay your credit card, house, car, whatever payments on time?

oh nothing its not a big deal for the household

This is not how their base understands the debt ceiling.

 

[Ken Masters]

Another thing why these politicians (on both sides) could truly give a damn if their is a default and the markets collapse.

They're all rich, they have the money to withstand whatever financial disaster might come this country's way.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Another thing why these politicians (on both sides) could truly give a damn if their is a default and the markets collapse.

They're all rich, they have the money to withstand whatever financial disaster might come this country's way.

but the markets and the corporations control the governmenttttt

 

[Timedog]

Another thing why these politicians (on both sides) could truly give a damn if their is a default and the markets collapse.

They're all rich, they have the money to withstand whatever financial disaster might come this country's way.

That's typically not how rich people operate. Rich people can withstand higher taxes too, but they'll fight tooth and nail against it.

The politicians cannot withstand funding for their campaigns getting cut when their funders don't have money for extra expenses due the the market collapsing, or become disillusioned with how the party operates and how it's affecting their bottom line.

 

[Ken Masters]

That's typically not how rich people operate. Rich people can withstand higher taxes too, but they'll fight tooth and nail against it.

The politicians cannot withstand funding for their campaigns getting cut when their funders don't have money for extra expenses due the the market collapsing, or become disillusioned with how the party operates and how it's affecting their bottom line.

If a republican runs against another republican and has an ad saying they supported obamacare during the government shutdown...they're dead, doesn't matter how much campaign funding they get

 

[Randolph Freelander]

If a republican runs against another republican and has an ad saying they supported obamacare during the government shutdown...they're dead, doesn't matter how much campaign funding they get

If they lose a primary challenge. then those Republican can go do what they value so much, stop leeching from the government and go work for the private sector. It is somewhat poetic that it allows them to be change they want to see. That, and they'll be doing the right thing and ending this madness.

 

[Fenderputty]

If a republican runs against another republican and has an ad saying they supported obamacare during the government shutdown...they're dead, doesn't matter how much campaign funding they get

Polling would suggest this is inaccurate for at least Virginia. I would imagine this depends on the state/district one is running in.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You want to see something scary?

More than half of Republicans believe the debt ceiling isn't a big deal.

A plurality of Tea Partiers don't care about the economic damage of the government shutdown.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10/07/partisans-dug-in-on-budget-health-care-impasse/

I wouldn't be surprised if they would rather see the world burn than Obama be even remotely successful.

 

[Ken Masters]

Polling would suggest this is inaccurate for at least Virginia. I would imagine this depends on the state/district one is running in.

I'm not talking general election or anywhere that's blue, but elections in very red states, Rush/Hannity/Teaparty is the law of the land in those areas. If you don't follow the talking points to a T you're finished if someone runs against you and has

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I wouldn't be surprised if they would rather see the world burn than Obama be even remotely successful.

They would. And then they would blame Obama.

 

[Black Mamba]

I'm not talking general election or anywhere that's blue, but elections in very red states, Rush/Hannity/Teaparty is the law of the land in those areas. If you don't follow the talking points to a T you're finished if someone runs against you and has

By this time next year it won't be that viable to run against the ACA.

 

[EatinOlives]

It is the law, and they should follow the proper procedures to repeal it if they want to

But they are and know that they are unique position, as a minority group, to be able to make changes without doing so and have taken advantage of it

Boehner will NOT EVER go against the tea party because he values his job, being a politician is his career and he's reached his peak, he's not going to let that go for Obama

Again, it doesn't concern Obama. It's the fault of Boehner and the Tea Party that they're attempting governmental and economical sabotage. If you have nutjobs threatening harm you take them down, you don't hold the door open for them and hope they don't destroy everything.

The consequences that would arise from Obama giving into any of their insanity would be far too great. It'd have a rippling effect that would last for decades, essentially validating the tactic that any Congressional body, no matter their stance or strength in number, can literally hold the economy and government hostage and kill bills already signed into law. It's a nasty backdoor for Congress to kill anything they want.

Obama absolutely cannot give into this. He needs to nip this loophole in the bud. It goes beyond ACA, the Tea Party, and Boehner's shitty job. It's about the question whether Congress has the ability to single handedly dictate policy and shut down laws simply by refusing to do their job.

 

[empty vessel]

Your post made me feel better and worse about this at exactly the same time. Thank you. I think.

Yeah, it's a whirlwind.

I'm somewhat dismayed that the liberal position being defended is the incredible importance of timely paying bond owners (rich people) at peril of the destruction of the world's economy when that needn't at all be the case. It's also kind of surreal that the conservative position is the casual disregard of timely paying bond owners (rich people).

I would much prefer the liberal or progressive position to take up the challenge presented by the temporarily insane conservative position and once and for all eradicate the bond market and the false pretense that it limits what society can do through its democratic government. The bond market doesn't discipline us. We discipline the bond market.

 

[Fenderputty]

I'm not talking general election or anywhere that's blue, but elections in very red states, Rush/Hannity/Teaparty is the law of the land in those areas. If you don't follow the talking points to a T you're finished if someone runs against you and has

This is a given. No one is trying to sway the tea party from their perch. There are enough repubs who are pragmatic and in moderate states to pass a clean CR if Boehner would just allow a vote.

This is completely on Boehner's shoulders. Though I agree that he seems egotistical enough to send us into default to preserve his speakership. Which is funny since it seems like he has no actual control to anyone paying attention to this mess.

 

[Ken Masters]

Again, it doesn't concern Obama. It's the fault of Boehner and the Tea Party that they're attempting governmental and economical sabotage. If you have nutjobs threatening harm you take them down, you don't hold the door open for them and hope they don't destroy everything.

The consequences that would arise from Obama giving into any of their insanity would be far too great. It'd have a rippling effect that would last for decades, essentially validating the tactic that any Congressional body, no matter their stance or strength in number, can literally hold the economy and government hostage and kill bills already signed into law. It's a nasty backdoor for Congress to kill anything they want.

Obama absolutely cannot give into this. He needs to nip this loophole in the bud. It goes beyond ACA, the Tea Party, and Boehner's shitty job. It's about the question whether Congress has the ability to single handedly dictate policy and shut down laws simply by refusing to do their job.

It doesn't matter if it's Obama's fault or not at this point, if America defaults his entire legacy would be forever ruined and would be humiliated. He has no choice but to talk at this point because he's going up against ideologues, not realists

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

What happened to the treat government like a household? What happens when you don't pay your credit card, house, car, whatever payments on time?

oh nothing its not a big deal for the household

No one knows what the debt ceiling is.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It doesn't matter if it's Obama's fault or not at this point, if America defaults his entire legacy would be forever ruined and would be humiliated. He has no choice but to talk at this point because he's going up against ideologues, not realists

I couldn't disagree more. The precedent that would be set by this is just as dangerous to America as the default.

 

[pigeon]

It doesn't matter if it's Obama's fault or not at this point, if America defaults his entire legacy would be forever ruined and would be humiliated. He has no choice but to talk at this point because he's going up against ideologues, not realists

There's only 30 of them. Make Boehner ruin his legacy instead.

 

[Drakeon]

I couldn't disagree more. The precedent that would be set by this is just as dangerous to America as the default.

Exactly. It will tilt the balance of power. The house will keep taking hostages if they find out it works.