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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
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mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Anyone see Boner as a guy who got in over his head and beholden to his congressmen, but if it were up to him he'd have never pushed this far?
He's still crazy enough to do it. He may be over his head now, but he doesn't care. He wants to watch the world burn.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well he told the business community that he wouldn't default. I am hoping this is all just posturing before the 17th, otherwise it won't just be democrats and independents that are pissed at him. I doubt they care if boehner wants to see the world burn either. I think he will cave inevitably.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Holy fuck... they're seriously out of their damn minds aren't they....
Yeah sure. Life goes on. Oh but wait. What about the millions that are without financial aid? Or the nearly one million now jobless? Oh, and what about roads and infrastructure?
Holy fuck, Republicans. You're IN Government. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW IT WORKS?!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Holy shit
I'm actually scared
This entire thing has happened only because Boehner wants to maintain his speaker-ship.
PhoenixDark
Banned
No, he doesn't. He didn't want a shutdown by all accounts, and has been dragged into this due to an insane caucus and his own focus on keeping power. He has informed K/Wall Street and House republicans that he won't allow a US default. Let's not forget, we're talking about a complete global economic crash if he doesn't allow a vote. A debt ceiling increase could easily pass the House, and a clean CR would be even easier to pass.
It seems clear that he is holding out as long as possible. The markets haven't really spoken yet but sooner or later, perhaps after October 10th, it could get loud. Shortly thereafter he'll be able to argue he fought as long as hard as he could, but it's time to move on.
NullPointer
Member
I'm sorry, but I don't care how much he wants to keep his job. He's a fucking lunatic for going along with the Tea Party. He's an idiot and obviously doesn't care a single bit about the consequences.
He can say he didn't want to do it, but he is still doing it. This is 100% on him. No one else. He's the reason we're in this mess.
SteveWinwood
Member
fuck i had no clue all their social security checks were just interfering with their lives
we could have just taken them away a long time ago
It's the sane thing to do, but his caucus won't settle for that. He'll be labeled a traitor. I think we're at the point were the GOP has to split because they can't function this way. What else can they do?
Take a rocket to the sun?
PhoenixDark
Banned
He is the reason we're in this mess, true. But there's no evidence he is "crazy enough to do it" ie let the US default. If this was Sarah Palin I wouldn't be disagreeing with you. Boehner is an old school establishment republican: he's not going to destroy the economy/ruin corporations for no reason. This isn't like gutting regulations or lowering taxes, where there's an obvious benefactor (corporations). This fucks everyone.
- posted in my bubble
SteveWinwood
Member
This I can agree with. I don't think anything will really happen. They'll make him take the fall before anything really hits the fan. There will be a small but insignificant revolt in the house as republicans realize that they can actually tell the lunatics to fuck off because it's already too late anyway.
PhoenixDark
Banned
At this point he has to know his reign is almost over. The only escape hatch is through Obama, and I don't think he'll give republicans one. If Boehner holds out past the 10th I honestly think he can argue he tried his best. Will it be enough for the insane 20-30 tea party members? Nope. But it's better than if he caved a week ago or today.
He'll remain Speaker but lose his influence. Politics is about power, and when Boehner loses he'll effectively be emasculated.
NullPointer
Member
By all means feel free to enlighten me.
I've been following these events for a long time, but I'm starting to feel a bit uneasy about the whole thing. I am reminded of the fact that I live in a country that had a civil war that killed nearly a million people over the issue of slavery. I read the quotes from these GOP representatives from Podunk, USA, and I see that they are delighted by the government shutdown and have brushed off the possible effects of the US government defaulting on its debt.
I've heard people say that Boehner is sensible and won't allow it to come to that. The problem is I heard people say the exact same thing about the shutdown two weeks ago. People say the markets will keep the GOP in check, yet the DJIA has fallen nearly a thousand points since it all started and the Republican representatives are not flinching.
My mom, who lives in OK, went to a meeting with Rep. Tom Cole about 6 months ago. She said someone in the audience stood up and screamed, "When are you guys going to repeal Obamacare!?" He smiled at her and replied, "We have a plan for that." These extremists have a base that believes Obama is a Muslim and probably the antichrist, that the world is probably going to end in the next few years, and who are influenced by intense racism against blacks and Hispanics.
I'm probably overreacting. I hope I wake up tomorrow morning to read they've struck some kind of deal, or I hope someone can assuage my fears, but I can't shake this uneasiness. I'm truly worried that the current version of the GOP is content to pull the entire nation with it down its death spiral.
I've heard people say that Boehner is sensible and won't allow it to come to that. The problem is I heard people say the exact same thing about the shutdown two weeks ago. People say the markets will keep the GOP in check, yet the DJIA has fallen nearly a thousand points since it all started and the Republican representatives are not flinching.
My mom, who lives in OK, went to a meeting with Rep. Tom Cole about 6 months ago. She said someone in the audience stood up and screamed, "When are you guys going to repeal Obamacare!?" He smiled at her and replied, "We have a plan for that." These extremists have a base that believes Obama is a Muslim and probably the antichrist, that the world is probably going to end in the next few years, and who are influenced by intense racism against blacks and Hispanics.
I'm probably overreacting. I hope I wake up tomorrow morning to read they've struck some kind of deal, or I hope someone can assuage my fears, but I can't shake this uneasiness. I'm truly worried that the current version of the GOP is content to pull the entire nation with it down its death spiral.
jesus they are completely insane they really want to burn it all down.
empty vessel
Member
You are not overreacting.
In my eyes what Boehner and his colleagues are doing is treason. Intentionally harming the country to get what they want? How is this allowable? Ridiculous.
Obama should have an executive order to get them removed temporarily or something. I know that's never going to happen, but damn this blackmail, extortion, thuggery, whatever you want to call it, is insane.
Obama should have an executive order to get them removed temporarily or something. I know that's never going to happen, but damn this blackmail, extortion, thuggery, whatever you want to call it, is insane.
Not overreacting at all. And you're damn right about all the people saying "Durrr buh he wont do that!" We are here now, so the goal posts have moved to him not doing it for the economic shutdown. I'm still hoping that he isn't 100% insane, but at this point its clear that the government has been hijacked by a handful of billionaires. They are the people that I'm afraid have no remorse or accountability.
The Call isn't on him. Its on his handlers.
Yes, but through bullshit, The Tea Party has been able to convince morons that it is Obama, that is treasonous. Try Fox News comment section, or hell, im sure facebook at this point.
Americans are celebrating their team's perceived victory, and celebrating the Obama-Caused-Shut down. They are cheering him on, saying to not back down to Obama.
We need a way to get the message out, without any bias.
I agree Boehner is probably toast, but even if he's gone, who will take his place? Cantor? He's even worse. At some point the "sane" GOP is going to have to stand up to the Tea Party. When that happens, I don't see how the GOP remains intact especially the way the Tea Party currently deals with "betrayal." If they lose the Tea Party however they create a power vacuum and the current GOP will be completely marginalized, but at the same time if they continue to pick more radical candidates they'll be marginalized as well. They seem completely screwed.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Actually I don't think Boehner will be pushed out of the Speakership, I believe he'll simply lose control of his caucus and be irrelevant in DC. He'll probably decide not to run for re-election.
The tea party doesn't have the votes to get rid of him. Also Cantor has become quite connected to Boehner, I don't think he'll be the replacement.
The tea party doesn't have the votes to get rid of him. Also Cantor has become quite connected to Boehner, I don't think he'll be the replacement.
Yep, was pretty damn amazing.
If he would stop being completely ineffectual and worked to pass bills with some Democratic support he could still remain effective and potentially salvage the sane segment of his party.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This is difficult to read.
Right, I don't think he gets shoved right out the door, but that doesn't matter because they have bigger problems. They either split or the Tea Party tries to save face by pretending they won and then stick with the rest of the GOP while trying to gain more radical candidates.
Only if the Senate passes a bill to the House and only if it's close enough to the debt ceiling limit.
So not this week, at least.
Trent Strong
Banned
Is there any sort of consensus on how long the shutdown will probably last, or do we really just have no idea?
No idea, because even if they do come to some kind of agreement on the debt ceiling. They might placate the Tea Party by saying "well we still have the shutdown."
peanutbutterlatte
Member
How much money has this cost y'all?
Just joking. Gaf is pretty diverse.
Hopefully it will end before we pop the debt ceiling. If they get something done, I'd imagine they would solve both issues at once. Course, that actually makes sense, so who the fuck knows what congress will do
And I have to say, it really boggles my mind how republicans can say they are all for less government in their lives when they are for the most intrusive government actions. Abortion, contraception, marriage equality, etc etc. I mean, come the fuck on.
I'm getting pretty scared. Normally when it comes to disasters and, "end of the world," scenarios hyped up by the public, my common sense prevails and I stay calm.
However, this is freaking me out. Especially since many people in my community don't understand what a government shutdown or what the federal government defaulting on its loans mean.
People are cheering for it. The common phrase I've heard is, "well the essential government services are still going, and the lazy POS' getting all of those entitlements are not getting their money. Sounds like a win win to me." The irony about that statwment is that it's coming from cops, emts, and firefighters; where most of local federal funding goes towards.
It's absolutely frightening that some dumb fucks are going to screw it over for ALL of us on this godforsaken planet.
However, this is freaking me out. Especially since many people in my community don't understand what a government shutdown or what the federal government defaulting on its loans mean.
People are cheering for it. The common phrase I've heard is, "well the essential government services are still going, and the lazy POS' getting all of those entitlements are not getting their money. Sounds like a win win to me." The irony about that statwment is that it's coming from cops, emts, and firefighters; where most of local federal funding goes towards.
It's absolutely frightening that some dumb fucks are going to screw it over for ALL of us on this godforsaken planet.
NullPointer
Member
Damnit I was honestly hoping to be enlightened.
I'd love to know that my cynicism right now is completely unjustified.
Trent Strong
Banned
Damn. I thought this shutdown would be a few days at the most, but now who knows.
Yeah, my fear is that since this shutdown got tied into the debt ceiling stuff, it could last until the 18th.
My bad. I usually avoid poli threads. Just dabble. Drop my straw in for a taste here and there. Just the tip. Just for a second.
I'm pretty fuckin weird.
About $250-300 million a day.
me too... as somebody who works in trading and manufacturing, my income gets hit directly. usually when these standoffs happen business dries up pretty quick, especially now considering alot of stuff is indirectly paid for by the government.
for me it's personal. it's not like i have the luxury of sitting back and saying "oh those wacky republicans"... what they've been doing more or less directly affects my livelihood
i really thought obama's re-election would make them "snap out of it" but it's just gotten worse. it's like dealing with cancer
maquiladora
Member
Just remember that shutdowns have happened several times in the past, and they were all eventually resolved. This too will be resolved, even if the exact endgame isnt clear now.
The bigger deal is the debt ceiling and risk of default, but while a minority of Republicans would be willing to let this happen, the rest would not. And the corporations that fund the GOP which would crippled in a depression would be quick in reminding them of that.
Like the hat?
Banned
So is there any way a vote can be called without boner doing it?
empty vessel
Member
Since we all use dollars, everything is indirectly paid for by the government. Some people and businesses, of course, will feel things more immediately than others. As a person impacted, I'm already inflicting pain on other businesses who would have no idea that their reductions in business from me are due to Republican idiocy about how an economy works at its most fundamental level. So the pain spreads.
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