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[CoffeeJanitor]

Just look at how hard ACA was to pass. Do you think Single payer would have stood even the slightest chance?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Just look at how hard ACA was to pass. Do you think Single payer would have stood even the slightest chance?

Nope. I was just responding to someone who asked why you should care if its the Republican system if it works and was replying why you should care.

 

[Jonm1010]

Just look at how hard ACA was to pass. Do you think Single payer would have stood even the slightest chance?

Im an advocate that Obama should of started at a less compromised position but realistically a single payer would of never happened. You had to contend with senate rules no one has the nuts to change which required 60 votes to pass anything and representatives that swooped in on the tailcoats of Obama's election clout and did so in historically conservative districts that were fighting for their lives the first time obama's approval rating came down from the stratosphere and the republican machine went into full gear. They were never going to be able to agree to a single payer option.

I truly think they could of got a lot more into the bill if they just abandoned the coalition building mantra a lot earlier when it was clear republicans were never gonna be persuaded no matter how many compromises they made to the bill.

 

[ISOM]

Just look at how hard ACA was to pass. Do you think Single payer would have stood even the slightest chance?

It's been 3 years since the aca was passed. If people haven't realized by now that a single payer system would never have passed then they never will.

 

[Trakdown]

Do you think Single payer would have stood even the slightest chance?

This statement is really, really depressing. It's sad that a common sense measure that almost every other industrialized already has in place is basically a pipe dream in this country.

 

[bomma_man]

god the rest of the world will be pissed if the US actually defaults.

It's enough to be powerless in the face of your own political bullshit, but to be at the mercy of a bunch of - let's be honest - cunts in a bullshit political fight over a completely arbitrary and unnecessary piece of legislation is just excruciating. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny, it's more or less a political reimagining of Dr Strangelove.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's been 3 years since the aca was passed. If people haven't realized by now that a single payer system would never have passed then they never will.

Closer to 4

 

[Elaugaufein]

This statement is really, really depressing. It's sad that a common sense measure that almost every other industrialized already has in place is basically a pipe dream in this country.

Look on the bright side. You have a military budget large enough to fight pretty much the entire rest of the world at once. Except that it would end with nukes and everybody would lose.

 

[pigeon]

god the rest of the world will be pissed if the US actually defaults.

It's enough to be powerless in the face of your own political bullshit, but to be at the mercy of a bunch of - let's be honest - cunts in a bullshit political fight over a completely arbitrary and unnecessary piece of legislation is just excruciating. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny, it's more or less a political reimagining of Dr Strangelove.

There was a great anecdote in the Atlantic about just this:

I'm currently in Japan attending an international technical conference and a number of us from the Anglophone countries (in this case: Australia, Canada, UK and USA) gathered for dinner. We've all known each other for years and have developed some pretty strong friendships, so we all speak very candidly about politics when we're all out together.

We were discussing the current governance crisis in the US, when one of my colleagues put it quite blunty and said, "The single biggest threat to the current peace and prosperity of my country is the United States. You're all lucky you can hide behind your military because the actions of your government warrant a military intervention to protect the rest of us from your foolish actions." The rest of the group all nodded their heads in agreement.

Now, I don't want to make too much of this statement and claim it represents the consensus view of their countrymen, but the fact that our three closest allies all view the United States as the biggest single threat they face should make any sober-minded person stop dead in their tracks and reflect upon the extreme damage this Republican-lead temper tantrum is causing. I should say that these are all proudly conservative voters in their home countries.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...shutdown-mailbag-crossing-the-rubicon/280342/

This might be a little overwrought, I guess, but imagine what we'd do if America was owed a bunch of money by some other country, and they had the money to pay us, but intentionally refused to do it because of weird internal policy disputes and dumb traditional laws. And that doesn't even take into account the worldwide depression!

 

[Stinkles]

He's kind of softballed that too.

Though given the US politically environment , he's probably done the best that could have been expected (repealing DADT and publicly voicing his approval for gay marriage).

In the context of US politics these are in no way "softball" actions - in fact they are fairly radical and progressive.

There was a great anecdote in the Atlantic about just this:



http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...shutdown-mailbag-crossing-the-rubicon/280342/

This might be a little overwrought, I guess, but imagine what we'd do if America was owed a bunch of money by some other country, and they had the money to pay us, but intentionally refused to do it because of weird internal policy disputes and dumb traditional laws. And that doesn't even take into account the worldwide depression!

I don't know if it's overwrought. think about it from the position of say, some random British dude - whose interest rates may skyrocket, or whose investments may tank, simply because 30 or 40 racist jackasses, who understand neither government nor economics, Jesus and Gerrymandered their way into our broken system.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Cross-posting:

The fucks not given continue. Jesus.

Congress's private health club spared from shutdown by Boehner: "essential"

Congress's private gym -- whose budget is a closely held secret for "security" reasons -- has remained open during the shutdown. It was deemed an essential service. By John Boehner himself. (Possibly because so many Tea Party Congressmen live in their lavish tax-funded/tax-free offices and use the fancy club as their personal showers, rather than renting DC lodgings)

The staffers' gym was closed, however.

Christ. I can't even. So many cunts under one umbrella.

 

[coldfoot]

When we default, can Obama make sure that the first thing that bounces are food stamps for red congressional districts and veteran's checks, combined with an ad campaign showing them in their jets and saying how it's their fault. I doubt that class of generally poor people who support the Tea Party/Republicans will learn any other way.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Cross-posting:

The fucks not given continue. Jesus.

Congress's private health club spared from shutdown by Boehner: "essential"



Christ. I can't even. So many cunts under one umbrella.

Wow, it's like a meritocracy.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

So how much longer until Obama requests the Treasury to mint those $1 trillion USD Ronald Reagan coins? I cannot wait until the Steve Jobs-esque showing of the coin on prime time TV with a portrait of Boner crying in the background.

OMG/EDIT: You can search John Boner on google and it corrects it but doesn't tell you "did you mean?".

Google knows what you meant

 

[Mac_Lane]

Looking at this from France, I'm baffled by the levels of craziness reached by the Republicans.

In my country the right-wing opposition can be fucking dumb at times too but I don't think they would resort to that kind of deliberate extortion.

I hope Bams don't cave in to their bullshit.

 

[Mengy]

god the rest of the world will be pissed if the US actually defaults.

It's enough to be powerless in the face of your own political bullshit, but to be at the mercy of a bunch of - let's be honest - cunts in a bullshit political fight over a completely arbitrary and unnecessary piece of legislation is just excruciating. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny, it's more or less a political reimagining of Dr Strangelove.

I believe we will go into default, and I don't think it's for political reasons at all.

Let me explain my theory.

There are only two dozen or so hardcore tea party members, all from gerrymandered districts, who are holding the House hostage. Somehow they have gotten Boehner in their back pocket, and he has completely stopped the government. Now, those tea party representatives are all from wealthy rich districts, very red and lots of money. We all know how skewed the wealth distribution is in this country, it's staggering how much buying power the top 1% have.

So, what do the tea party representatives really have to gain by doing all of this?

I think it's all big business, and I'll tell you why. If the country goes into default, it will not only plummet stocks across the world but send the planet into a recession, most likely a large one. Who does that hurt, and more importantly who stands to gain from such an event? In a devalued market, the wealth accumulated by the top 1% will decrease like everyone else's, but their portion of it will essentially become larger by extension, especially if they are invested wisely and prepared for it (if they know what is coming). They will be able to buy up lower priced stocks, companies, real estate, all at much reduced prices. This is their end game, this is what they are after. They want to default the country in order to amass more wealth during the following global recession. While the 99% will be struggling to make ends meet the 1% will go on a firesale shopping spree.

It's all simply a huge business opportunity, and they are willing to crash the country and the world to do it. And all of this political nonsense is just the smokescreen to camouflage it all and make it more believable, more palatable. They don't really care about the ACA or the debt ceiling, both of those things are inconsequential to the rich like them. My guess is that the 1% have bought off Boehner, because they absolutely need him to hold this line in order to default the USA.

Basically, the 1% have succeeded in hijacking the US government in order to make a very large and profitable business move that will allow them to acquire and amass even more wealth and power.


That's my theory. I think they want to default, it's been their end game all along, and they have no desire at all to prevent it from happening.

 

[Chichikov]

It's been 3 years since the aca was passed. If people haven't realized by now that a single payer system would never have passed then they never will.

I think we'll totally end up with a single payer system, it will just take a while.
It will definitely be easier to sell to the public than something like the ACA and it will yield much better results.
It will probably start on the state level or maybe through a robust public option that will be added on the federal level.

 

[FreezeSSC]

quick question, if the dems cave and they defund obamacare wouldn't the law still be in place? what i'm wondering is if insurances will still be required to take people with pre-existing conditions since the law will still be in place just no funds to regulate it?

 

[FlyinJ]

I believe we will go into default, and I don't think it's for political reasons at all.

Let me explain my theory.

There are only two dozen or so hardcore tea party members, all from gerrymandered districts, who are holding the House hostage. Somehow they have gotten Boehner in their back pocket, and he has completely stopped the government. Now, those tea party representatives are all from wealthy rich districts, very red and lots of money. We all know how skewed the wealth distribution is in this country, it's staggering how much buying power the top 1% have.

So, what do the tea party representatives really have to gain by doing all of this?

I think it's all big business, and I'll tell you why. If the country goes into default, it will not only plummet stocks across the world but send the planet into a recession, most likely a large one. Who does that hurt, and more importantly who stands to gain from such an event? In a devalued market, the wealth accumulated by the top 1% will decrease like everyone else's, but their portion of it will essentially become larger by extension, especially if they are invested wisely and prepared for it (if they know what is coming). They will be able to buy up lower priced stocks, companies, real estate, all at much reduced prices. This is their end game, this is what they are after. They want to default the country in order to amass more wealth during the following global recession. While the 99% will be struggling to make ends meet the 1% will go on a firesale shopping spree.

It's all simply a huge business opportunity, and they are willing to crash the country and the world to do it. And all of this political nonsense is just the smokescreen to camouflage it all and make it more believable, more palatable. They don't really care about the ACA or the debt ceiling, both of those things are inconsequential to the rich like them. My guess is that the 1% have bought off Boehner, because they absolutely need him to hold this line in order to default the USA.

Basically, the 1% have succeeded in hijacking the US government in order to make a very large and profitable business move that will allow them to acquire and amass even more wealth and power.


That's my theory. I think they want to default, it's been their end game all along, and they have no desire at all to prevent it from happening.

I was thinking the exact same thing. The entire tea party movement is based around getting stupid people to vote against their own self interests. It's nefarious and completely sponsored by massive amounts of cash from incredibly rich people. What is the end goal, other than to destroy all regulation and social programs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they would go so far as to default the country to profit even more. They are driven by nothing but accumulation of wealth and power by what ever means necessary- we are seeing that right now with them steering their lackeys to shut down the government.

However, the tea partiers aren't all from rich red districts. That part is irrelevant, though... their sponsors don't care where they are from as long as they are elected.

 

[Joeki11a]

All of this is Political Theater

Its not real, dont be fool

They both want something and will get it

By OCT 15.

 

[slit]

Cross-posting:

The fucks not given continue. Jesus.

Congress's private health club spared from shutdown by Boehner: "essential"



Christ. I can't even. So many cunts under one umbrella.

I'm sure if the story gains traction it'll close.

Once again, reactionary politics

 

[Jack_AG]

The healthcare law? You know he could of just gave up especially when rahm emmanuel wanted him to abandon it. It's not like any of his predecessors were able to accomplish anything close to what he did. The healthcare law is far from perfect but people should give him credit for improving or trying to improve the healthcare system in this country.

Are you serious? There's a million ways to improve the availability of health insurance for all besides this monstrosity of the "unaffordable" care act. Sure, the right thing to do would never pass in a right-wing climate but dems controlled a majority when the UCA was passed. I don't reward anyone for "trying". This isn't preschool where you get a gold sticker for participation, this is the Federal Government where RESULTS matter, not intentions. Its a half-assed law that gets most of what its trying to do wrong. That is nothing to parade around as an accomplishment. Democrats had the opportunity with a majority and didn't take it.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Jesus and Gerrymandered their way into our broken system.

Jesus and Gerrymander will be the name of my indie band.

 

[SteveWinwood]

All of this is Political Theater

Its not real, dont be fool

They both want something and will get it

By OCT 15.

k

 

[KHarvey16]

Democrats had the opportunity with a majority and didn't take it.

What fantasy land are we discussing exactly?

 

[KingGondo]

All of this is Political Theater

Its not real, dont be fool

They both want something and will get it

By OCT 15.

This guy gets it.

 

[mightynine]

I believe we will go into default, and I don't think it's for political reasons at all.

Let me explain my theory.

There are only two dozen or so hardcore tea party members, all from gerrymandered districts, who are holding the House hostage. Somehow they have gotten Boehner in their back pocket, and he has completely stopped the government. Now, those tea party representatives are all from wealthy rich districts, very red and lots of money. We all know how skewed the wealth distribution is in this country, it's staggering how much buying power the top 1% have.

So, what do the tea party representatives really have to gain by doing all of this?

I think it's all big business, and I'll tell you why. If the country goes into default, it will not only plummet stocks across the world but send the planet into a recession, most likely a large one. Who does that hurt, and more importantly who stands to gain from such an event? In a devalued market, the wealth accumulated by the top 1% will decrease like everyone else's, but their portion of it will essentially become larger by extension, especially if they are invested wisely and prepared for it (if they know what is coming). They will be able to buy up lower priced stocks, companies, real estate, all at much reduced prices. This is their end game, this is what they are after. They want to default the country in order to amass more wealth during the following global recession. While the 99% will be struggling to make ends meet the 1% will go on a firesale shopping spree.

It's all simply a huge business opportunity, and they are willing to crash the country and the world to do it. And all of this political nonsense is just the smokescreen to camouflage it all and make it more believable, more palatable. They don't really care about the ACA or the debt ceiling, both of those things are inconsequential to the rich like them. My guess is that the 1% have bought off Boehner, because they absolutely need him to hold this line in order to default the USA.

Basically, the 1% have succeeded in hijacking the US government in order to make a very large and profitable business move that will allow them to acquire and amass even more wealth and power.


That's my theory. I think they want to default, it's been their end game all along, and they have no desire at all to prevent it from happening.

The only problem with your theory are the stories coming out now about how the Tea Partiers don't give a flying you-know-what about the business community thinks. They're for the common American.

The Tea Party are truly playing to their very small but very vocal base, that got them elected in solidly red districts, where the larger GOP voter bloc is starting to get a little irked about these guys not doing anything, despite the fact they basically campaigned on it. The problem is, they have ZERO clue about what to do now. It's one thing to shut the government down, it's another to make it a means to an end - a reasonable end, not we want everything we didn't get because we couldn't win a national election.

But they will refuse to admit that, so they will happily watch the government burn (the TRUE enemy after all, in their eyes) and not give in to anything. That's what I think Boehner is either really missing or really ignoring - he's not going to be able to strike a deal that makes this group happy. It's going to take the rest of the House all growing a pair - or Boehner just accepting that he's losing Speaker of the House no matter what happens - to get this done.

 

[coldfoot]

That's my theory. I think they want to default, it's been their end game all along, and they have no desire at all to prevent it from happening.

There is plenty of big money behind Democrats and non Tea Party republicans as well. I somehow doubt they ALL agreed on the default being a good thing.

 

[Dude Abides]

Are you serious? There's a million ways to improve the availability of health insurance for all besides this monstrosity of the "unaffordable" care act. Sure, the right thing to do would never pass in a right-wing climate but dems controlled a majority when the UCA was passed. I don't reward anyone for "trying". This isn't preschool where you get a gold sticker for participation, this is the Federal Government where RESULTS matter, not intentions. Its a half-assed law that gets most of what its trying to do wrong. That is nothing to parade around as an accomplishment. Democrats had the opportunity with a majority and didn't take it.

What are you talking about? The ACA has flaws but it is still an improvement.

 

[slit]

Are you serious? There's a million ways to improve the availability of health insurance for all besides this monstrosity of the "unaffordable" care act. Sure, the right thing to do would never pass in a right-wing climate but dems controlled a majority when the UCA was passed. I don't reward anyone for "trying". This isn't preschool where you get a gold sticker for participation, this is the Federal Government where RESULTS matter, not intentions. Its a half-assed law that gets most of what its trying to do wrong. That is nothing to parade around as an accomplishment. Democrats had the opportunity with a majority and didn't take it.

So what do you think would have passed congress?

Single payer was out of the question even with Dems in control. What would you have passed?

 

[Chichikov]

quick question, if the dems cave and they defund obamacare wouldn't the law still be in place? what i'm wondering is if insurances will still be required to take people with pre-existing conditions since the law will still be in place just no funds to regulate it?

"De-funding obamacare" is pretty close to a meaningless statement.
You can repeal the taxes that were imposed in order to make in revenue neutral, but then what?
It will not make the mandate go away, nor will it make it legal for insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions.
The only thing this will achieve is to increase the deficit.

Maybe you can defund the expansion of Medicaid (not sure if that's entirely possible but you can definitely repeal it), but then you leave the bill to the states.

This is truly underwear gnomes levels of planning.

Edit: to be fair, the one way it could work is if the dems in the senate and Obama cave and repeal the law, but defunding was just a rallying cry for idiots.
Sadly, I think Ted Cruz actually believe it's possible.

 

[Effect]

I found this interesting about yestersday's press conference.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ss-conference_n_4065799.html?utm_hp_ref=media

President Obama didn't call on any TV network "reporters". Just newspapers and Internet outlets.

 

[Chichikov]

What fantasy land are we discussing exactly?

The alternate universe where Joe Lieberman was never born.
I call it "my happy place".

 

[Sanky Panky]

I think it's all big business, and I'll tell you why. If the country goes into default, it will not only plummet stocks across the world but send the planet into a recession, most likely a large one. Who does that hurt, and more importantly who stands to gain from such an event? In a devalued market, the wealth accumulated by the top 1% will decrease like everyone else's, but their portion of it will essentially become larger by extension, especially if they are invested wisely and prepared for it (if they know what is coming). They will be able to buy up lower priced stocks, companies, real estate, all at much reduced prices. This is their end game, this is what they are after. They want to default the country in order to amass more wealth during the following global recession. While the 99% will be struggling to make ends meet the 1% will go on a firesale shopping spree.
.

You are entirely correct, but the end game does not stop there. Perhaps the default won't happen now (high chance that it will) but the stage is set for what the true ultimate goal is: a global central bank with a global currency that they can control.

Neither the US dollar, nor the Euro, nor the Yen or Yuan are good as reserve currencies. The dollar now has the tripple wammy of a government drawning in debt backed by nothing but "faith" (and debt serivce that can double with a hike in interest rates), "risk-free" bonds that are now as volatile (or more) than even Spanish bonds, and political disfunction in the government. Couple that with a loss of international credibility, and the stage is set to push the dollar out.

Aside from buying assets on the cheap after every bust that has happened since 1929 (wink: caused by the Fed), the ability to print money creates nominal buying power for them. With a global central bank, the ability to create that money now becomes unlimited, and economies of the different countries under that central bank become subject to the policies they dictate.

That global central bank has been running for a while now... it's the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), along with the IMF... and the global currency proposed are the Special Drawing Rights (SDRs). THIS I believe is the end game. If we go into default, the minute we have any kind of assistance or agreement with the IMF, it is all but confirmed.

 

[Goodlife]

I think some of you conspiracy theorists are giving the tea party too much credit myself.

They just seem / sound like clueless idiots to me, not the kind of people planning a new world order

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I think some of you conspiracy theorists are giving the tea party too much credit myself.

They just seem / sound like clueless idiots to me, not the kind of people planning a new world order

Edit: to be fair, the one way it could work is if the dems in the senate and Obama cave and repeal the law, but defunding was just a rallying cry for idiots.
Sadly, I think Ted Cruz actually believe it's possible.

Ted Cruz is a dude who graduated cum laude from Princeton and then magna cum laude from Harvard Law. I find it hard to believe such a person is not playing dumb.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So what do you think would have passed congress?

Single payer was out of the question even with Dems in control. What would you have passed?

The thing is that there are a number of Democrats who would in many places be right of center. In order to actually pass something like Single-payer Healthcare the Democrats would need not only a filibuster proof majority in both Houses, but sufficiently above that as to not need the support of some of the more right-aligned Democrats. Essentially you'd need a crushing Democratic victory and to be years away from elections in any Red or Swing state with a Democratic incumbent.

 

[KHarvey16]

The alternate universe where Joe Lieberman was never born.
I call it "my happy place".

No Joe and no filibuster. It would be a paradise!

Perhaps the default won't happen now (high chance that it will) but the stage is set for what the true ultimate goal is: a global central bank with a global currency that they can control.

Hahaha

 

[Sirpopopop]

Ted Cruz is a dude who graduated cum laude from Princeton and then magma cum laude from Harvard Law. I find it hard to believe such a person is not playing dumb.

I knew a guy who graduated from Cornell with honors.

He was an Indian dude who honestly believed that white people were a superior race intellectually.

Anecdotal evidence I know - but just because someone graduated from an Ivy League school doesn't mean they are immune from wacky views.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Two of the people I graduated with in college, who were tied for highest gpa, were honestly some of the dumbest people I have ever met.

 

[Goodlife]

Ted Cruz is a dude who graduated cum laude from Princeton and then magna cum laude from Harvard Law.

Doesn't that just mean he's got rich parents?

 

[FlyinJ]

He was an Indian dude who honestly believed that white people were a superior race intellectually.

I'm pretty sure Ted Cruz feels the same way!

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Doesn't that just mean he's got rich parents?

Getting in is not the same thing as graduating at the top of your class. Unless you think all of university credentials are a sham and then w/e

Not saying his views are smart, just that I think he knows what he's saying is bullshit, he's an opportunist.

 

[Sanky Panky]

I think some of you conspiracy theorists are giving the tea party too much credit myself.

They just seem / sound like clueless idiots to me, not the kind of people planning a new world order

They are clueless idiots, that are bankrolled by the NOT clueless people. Both Democrats and Republicans. Democrats did the bidding for the elite to make private insurance mandatory, and the GOP are hell-bent on shutting it all down. The top 1% is funding both sides.

 

[Goodlife]

They are clueless idiots, that are bankrolled by the NOT clueless people. Both Democrats and Republicans. Democrats did the bidding for the elite to make private insurance mandatory, and the GOP are hell-bent on shutting it all down. The top 1% is funding both sides.

So it's the top .5% vs the top .5%.

 

[Elaugaufein]

You are entirely correct, but the end game does not stop there. Perhaps the default won't happen now (high chance that it will) but the stage is set for what the true ultimate goal is: a global central bank with a global currency that they can control.

Neither the US dollar, nor the Euro, nor the Yen or Yuan are good as reserve currencies. The dollar now has the tripple wammy of a government drawning in debt backed by nothing but "faith" (and debt serivce that can double with a hike in interest rates), "risk-free" bonds that are now as volatile (or more) than even Spanish bonds, and political disfunction in the government. Couple that with a loss of international credibility, and the stage is set to push the dollar out.

Aside from buying assets on the cheap after every bust that has happened since 1929 (wink: caused by the Fed), the ability to print money creates nominal buying power for them. With a global central bank, the ability to create that money now becomes unlimited, and economies of the different countries under that central bank become subject to the policies they dictate.

That global central bank has been running for a while now... it's the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), along with the IMF... and the global currency proposed are the Special Drawing Rights (SDRs). THIS I believe is the end game. If we go into default, the minute we have any kind of assistance or agreement with the IMF, it is all but confirmed.

This seems wildly unlikely. The IMF is essentially based in Europe and its attitudes are largely European as a result , putting power in its hands doesn't make sense for the group you're talking about. Especially not if you want the Tea Party to continue being a viable political force, the sell out to socialism it would be perceived as would essentially end them and that's *before* someone pressures them to implement austerity measures on the stats that would result in large sections of the Tea Party's base needing to *eat* bootstraps rather than pull themselves up by them.

Even the fire sale seems dicey. This shopping spree relies on you being able to predict which investments are safe in an event that has never happened before (if a total global collapse happens gold which is the old reliable , may actually become far less so because its ultimately valuable because its an unnecessary luxury item and people pay a lot for it and if things crunch really hard demand gold will crash).
It also relies on you having a trusted currency to buy in in the international market. Even world-renowned economists and investment experts have problems forecasting what will happen 2 months down the track in normal circumstances. It's essentially an immense risk to take, when frankly they've been winning class warfare for the past 50 years in the US, and it doesn't look like the US is actually going to turn genuinely progressive any time in the next 10.

 

[User 100115]

What are you talking about? The ACA has flaws but it is still an improvement.

This.

I don't think anyone thinks it's perfect. I am still pissed that we didn't get single payer, but with the amount of money that gets thrown at congress via lobbyists and the like, I don't think we could have gotten anything better.

And until Citizen's United is taken down, I don't think we will.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

This probably is completely off topic from this conversation but I felt it would be good to share it here.

So I was playing GTA Online with my little cousin and we just got out if a mission back into free roam. We entered a huge argument between a New Zealand guy and a American guy. What was disgusting was what the American guy was saying to the New Zealand guy and it made me feel disgusted I had to leave.

So I guess the NZ guy was basically shaming America due to the government shutdown saying how America is shameful for not passing a budget for healthcare and how healthcare in his country is free. He basically said our politicians are crap and Americans are pretty much crap for putting up with the bullshit we get. He started talking about the obesity rate and other stuff.

So the American guy completely mad, went off on a rant on how NZ is nothing. No one travels there and no one cares about their lame country. He even said things like how people are buying tickets to live in NZ, their army is garbage, their government is shit and also how powerful America is all at the same time. He said things like America is the most powerful country in the world. Then it got worse and when I got ready to leave. He said America is the country that comes into your land and take over your land. We fuck shit up, come into your country and kill your family. He said right now, I'm sitting here with my glock and if I want I can come to your country, and kill your family just like that. America is this and that.

Now he wasn't trolling or trying to be a dick. He was being dead serious. It was the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. As if being in America is some prized thing. I'm not going to say I'm not proud to be an American but I am not proud of my country and it's nothing to make any type of statements like that. What he said basically made me understand completely why other countries hate us the way they do... It's really sad.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Getting in is not the same thing as graduating at the top of your class. Unless you think all of university credentials are a sham and then w/e

Not saying his views are smart, just that I think he knows what he's saying is bullshit, he's an opportunist.

There have been many very smart people in human history who've bought into various world views and had it shape their beliefs in ways that lead to conclusions that don't have much in common with reality. Once you accept something in faith, then intelligence will often only serve to reinforce that faith because you are better able to find things that reinforce that view and discredit things that disagree with it, than the average person. Look at Isaac Newton. He was an absolute genius in multiple fields, he also spent a chunk of his life pursuing alchemy. I'm don't this is necessarily a bad thing though, it's hard to come up with revolutionary things that no one else ever has unless you view the world in ways other people don't.

 

[mightynine]

Ted Cruz is a dude who graduated cum laude from Princeton and then magna cum laude from Harvard Law. I find it hard to believe such a person is not playing dumb.

But - but - but I was told colleges indoctrinate students into liberalism!