I don't know when it will end but it looks like they will be working to disenfranchise as many voters as they can on the way out.
Kris Kobach laying groundwork for two-tier voting system in Kansas
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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
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I don't know when it will end but it looks like they will be working to disenfranchise as many voters as they can on the way out.
Kris Kobach laying groundwork for two-tier voting system in Kansas
maquiladora
Member
It's not suprising. Why would any corporation/big business want a default and the risk of a depression? It's one of the reasons why it will never happen, the other major reason is that it would be political suicide for the majority of the GOP.
Vestal
Junior Member
RustyNails
Member
HBO movie incoming.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
The Hubris of those shit bag brothers.
wow, so there would be like 2 classes of citizens? how did this man got voted in
We can no longer ask the question "How did this person get voted in?" seriously... It's just too sad to think about.
I have no idea but I'm pretty sure how he'll get reelected. Under this crazy system I don't know how anyone could know if they were able to vote in local elections until the poll worker says no.
Obviously.
However, ya can't say that it will never happen. Just unlikely. - Especially if these people are going rogue, which is the point of speculation. Its why its an interesting public distancing, and its making its news rounds. It makes things just that much harder for the tea partiers that have doubled down on dumb. No one wants this, but they have to keep pushing it because it seems that they simply can't admit mistakes. Honestly.
many on Gaf said the shut down wasn't going to happen either..
Neuromancer
Member
I'm starting to feel extremely worried and frustrated about this whole thing. Like, physically sick almost. I'm here at work not getting paid for the foreseeable future. My money situation is ok for now, but that doesn't make me feel better about not getting a paycheck and of course I think about all the people I work with that live paycheck to paycheck and quite simply won't be able to pay bills in a couple weeks. The scariest thing though is the idea of America going into default and potentially plunging the whole world into economic depression. All because of a small number of people with crazy ideas and way too much power.
Please let there be some good news soon.
Please let there be some good news soon.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's not unsustainable, though. It's only going to get worse- they are masters at messaging and have a cult-like control over the section of the populace that consumes right wing media, and can obfuscate and derail discourse in the other mainstream media outlets.
Basically it's going to be a long, downhill slide with no stopping them, with near impunity and the barest of consequences to them, no matter much they fuck the country up.
Fenderputty
Banned
He's scared they'll rally and he'll lose his speakership. They also control the type of rhetoric being spewed by the right currently.. So repubs in general are afraid of being painted as soft lefties by the tea party and then losing their next election.
Moderate Republicans don't want to be 'primaried' by a Tea Party member. They fear it will be a repeat of something similar to this.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/14/AR2010091407063.html
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
That's an extremely poor comparison. A government shutdown and a government default are on such different levels that you can't act like they're the same.
+ The Tea Party is funded by many billionaires, which use their finances to make/break political careers/win elections. It doesn't matter that they are a small group, when the group they represent has a bankroll that could choke a hippo.
For a while now, Republican opponents of those who crossed the Tea Party would be given extraordinary amounts of money to run against the offender.
Punchy4486
Banned
We can't, but with the Tea Party, anything is possible. And I have little faith in the courage and true patriotism of the non-Tea Party Republicans.
NullPointer
Member
Lets not forget whats really important here, and that's whether Boehner gets to keep his job and the Tea Party crazies that pushed us into this mess get to say they won something.
Priorities, people. Priorities.
Did GAF posts always have the little squiggles under "Boehner" as a misspelling, suggesting "Boner" instead? Somehow this feels new, and completely fucking appropriate.
But no, seriously. I'm with you in hoping the madness comes to an end sooner rather than later. Nobody deserves this bullshit.
Is it uncouth to wish the Republican party gets food poisoning? Is that too much? Because I kindof think it'd be poetic justice. And I'm talking about the kind of food poisoning where you have to prop yourself up on the toilet to keep from falling over and passing out, and where you're covered head to toe in a warm, thick, sweat, and where you wonder whether its physically possible to both puke and shit at the same time without exploding.
I'm also hopped up on cold medicine that makes me feel like a space cadet, so that's my excuse.
empty vessel
Member
And that problem was eliminated by the introduction of fiat monetary systems. Hence, less volatility. I'm surprised that you are arguing this. It isn't controversial that convertible monetary systems are volatile.
Which is why there ought to be further regulation. Note I did not say that there is no volatility. It should be noted that these aren't huge problems, because they only indirectly affect regular people whom the government can easily backstop. Of course, this requires a democratic government that acts in the public interest rather than one that acts in the interests of the super wealthy. But that is a different problem entirely.
And what happens when the economy and population grows? You are proposing a monetary system that has already failed miserably. There is no benefit to arbitrarily tying money to a commodity. There are significant detriments.
Money is a social construct. It need not be moored to something physical that will only put needless deflationary pressure on an economy.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This is actually huge news.
Frankfurter
Member
Is that a reasonable scenario, considering that the Tea Party is just a relatively small minority within the GOP?
I didn't act like they were the same. The context of my post wasn't comparing them. Everyone, at this point that cares, is fully aware what the default is. I can suggest that like the shutdown, which was shrugged off by some as highly unlikely, we can't simply shrug off the threats of these people anymore. As they are being publicly distanced from, by some very large donators ( Koch brothers ), it is a point of discussion. Their motives at this point are freaking out a lot of people, internationally and here on gaf. You can't just highlight one part then claim its the entirety of a post. Come on.
Frankfurter
Member
Sounds like that's not really a party anymore. Time to found a "New GOP" without those Tea Party douchebags.
my golly, does the American public know about this? it would be a scandal in other countries
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Who do you think is in the Supreme Court? Scalia would make the perfect tea party congressman.
RustyNails
Member
Koch Bros might had a hand in creating the teaparty. But the current batch is beholden to no one. They are just united in their destructive hate for obama.
+ "Citizens" United allows corporations to make unlimited donations to any candidate they wish, without disclosing any of it
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm almost wondering if this is the tipping point for this. If we'll see the Tea Party lose this fight, go absolutely mental, and split off into their own party
Well, we all want a third party... just not like this I guess.
In short, yes. We had an election over this. An the side that is aware, won. The other side is still holding up the government to get what they lost in the democratic elections. America is looking very third worldly here, as far as our Democratic process. The tea party tried to win the election by pumping millions into it, but thankfully it didn't work.
We are trying to work on that awareness. Its hard when you consider how things work, and how people get their information in the USA. Many people have a handful of "NEWS" sources. NEWS is no longer informative. Media companies are owned by persons, that usually have political agendas. So that agenda taints the news being delivered. We have a lot of growing up to do as a nation. This is one of the many areas.
It would be a scandal if the truth was available for people. It just isn't, and people don't look for themselves.
thats what im afraid of.
+ indeed. So much needs to be un-done, but I don't think it will, at this point. After all of this settles.
What scandal? A corporation (person) spending money on elections (practicing free speech)?
If that was the case, the Republicans wouldn't be terrified of being primaried.
There are still billionaires filling these guys' coffers. If they went rogue and scared away their benefactors, there would be no Tea Party left as the Republicans would turn on them in an instant.
Yeah I see the tea party at this point as being largely manufactured thanks to one of the most successful astroturfing campaigns in history that managed to collect most of the far right conservative and social conservative gorups together to use as a battering ram against Democrats/obama/taxes/regulations/social safety net programs/unions and various interests that certain businesses had.
The tracks were laid but it eventually grew into its own force that isnt as tightly controlled like it once was. Frankenstein's monster seems like an apt metaphor.
A lot of big business interests piled money into this movement to achieve their corporate and personal ends and now that monster they helped build threatens to destroy them if the country defaults.
It should be a hell of a documentary in ten years and lead to a lot of interesting case studies in american history and political science.
It's a sham really, totally legal though. Undermines the whole damn system.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So yeah, corporations don't trust republicans anymore...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fidelity-sells-off-its-u-s-government-debt
I didn't see the actual language used by Koch Industries to distance themselves here, so I'll post it..
That "has not taken a position" sounds rather faint, like "we are neutral on this," but between the lines this is as close to "you fuckers are on your own" as we will ever see publicly.
its legal, but its abuse, as its manifested today, is something that needs balance for legislation.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
No, you did compare them when you said that gaffers were wrong before thinking a shutdown wouldn't happen. You come on, you purposefully acted like because people didn't think there was going to be a shutdown and now people don't think there will be a default that there's some sort of correlation between the two. They are two different things. The shutdown on government showing a link to the government defaulting is about as worthwhile as you predicting the winner of a baseball game tonight.
SteveWinwood
Member
If that happens (I don't think it's a when... yet) they'd just guarantee a whole lot of democratic winners by spoiling the entire right side of the race until repubs re centered themselves.
Yes and no.
Some(mostly on the far right) think its a natural extension of billionaires and corporations right to spend as much money on a candidate as they want.
Others think its happening but deny the extent of it.
Others make false equivalencies(all sides are doing it, nothing can be done or republicrats just game the system or we need the country to burn to wake people up or we need no government or It's so far gone there is nothing I can do) which all basically leads to apathy.
And there are the ones that just genuinely refuse to believe the government has gone this far into the crapper.
Fenderputty
Banned
This is what I asked him earlier and didn't really get a response. He's talking about a global economy too so a much larger scale than just the US.
I dont have anything else to add to my original response to you.
edit;
I understand where you're coming from, I just don't know what else to say in response to it.
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