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[Joe Shlabotnik]

The Senate would pass this, as silly as it is. Doesn't take any pressure off the House in six weeks to raise it long term.

 

[FlyinJ]

So will this proposal clear the House and then the Senate will deny it, putting the blame on Democrats?

This is exactly what they're betting on.

"THE DEOMATRACS ARE OBSTRUCTING! WE JUST WANT THE GOVERMENT TO WORK BUT THE DEMMCRATS WONT LET US!"

 

[Sanky Panky]

They really want people to sit on their money the week before thanksgiving?

lololololol

Funny enough the market is already pricing this kicking of the can... (up means tresuries are being sold and vice-versa).

 

[Effect]

So it's official:




Great, another six weeks with this Sword of Damocles hanging over the economy.

Screw that. That doesn't change anything. They have to accept they can't and won't be able to touch the ACA or act like this. Agreeing to this isn't going to solve anything. A delay isn't going to make things better.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

If it's a clean debt ceiling bill it'll pass the Senate, but then we get to have all this fun again in 6 weeks.

I don't think the Senate will pass it because it sets a precedent that a minority rule can delay laws which went through the normal democratic process until they get what they want.

 

[pigeon]

Funny enough the market is already pricing this kicking of the can... (up means tresuries are being sold and vice-versa).

That's really amazing. A succinct display of the market's faith in this new compromise.

 

[newshinycd]

Fucking seriously? I know to many people whose livelihoods are hanging on the edge of a cliff, due to this bullshit. >:|

It feels like, if this was Europe, you would have heard about people rioting and shit like that, by this point in the game.

Is there really no loophole Obama can abuse to stop this carnival of horror?

There is a loophole (aka the 14th Amendment), but like he said the other day during his press conference he doesn't want the Treasury to issue new bonds that may or may not be valid after a court case. Ignoring the debt ceiling to issue new bonds is just half the problem; the other half is faithfulness of those bonds. If investors don't trust them, it doesn't matter if you can keep making them.

 

[Miletius]

Screw that. That doesn't change anything. I have to accept they can't and won't be able to touch the ACA. Agreeing to this isn't going to solve anything. A delay is just going to make things better.

That's how I feel about it too. In 6 weeks everything will be worse. They can't just keep kicking the can down the road. There is no exit strategy here.

 

[slit]

There is a loophole (aka the 14th Amendment), but like he said the other day during his press conference he doesn't want the Treasury to issue new bonds that may or may not be valid after a court case. Ignoring the debt ceiling to issue new bonds is just half the problem; the other half is faithfulness of those bonds. If investors don't trust them, it doesn't matter if you can keep making them.

Unforunately the 14th admendment can't do anything for those who work for the gov't.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

I think the Dems will take it, I think Obama has said in the past he would. Then there will be more negotiations, some insignificant concessions from both sides, then both sides will declare themselves the victor.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I don't think the Senate will pass it because it sets a precedent that a minority rule can delay laws which went through the normal democratic process until they get what they want.

Nothing's being delayed (except the debt ceiling again). The ACA is already law, it would have to be actively repealed.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

That's how I feel about it too. In 6 weeks everything will be worse. They can't just keep kicking the can down the road. There is no exit strategy here.

Exactly. The GOP are doing their best to make Democrats look bad with this PR machine stunt.

 

[slit]

I don't think the Senate will pass it because it sets a precedent that a minority rule can delay laws which went through the normal democratic process until they get what they want.

Yes, but that's not what would be happening here.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Nothing's being delayed (except the debt ceiling again). The ACA is already law, it would have to be actively repealed.

Ah ok, I misunderstood. Well my reply can be applied to the debt ceiling than.

 

[FlyinJ]

I think the Dems will take it, I think Obama has said in the past he would. Then there will be more negotiations, some insignificant concessions from both sides, then both sides will declare themselves the victor.

When did Obama say he would take a tiny extension on the debt ceiling?

They better not take it. Extending by just 6 weeks is almost as bad as defaulting as far as the way the world views the value of US credit. The GOP would be doing massive damage to the economy by extending by just 6 weeks.

 

[slit]

When did Obama say he would take a tiny extension on the debt ceiling?

They better not take it. Extending by just 6 weeks is almost as bad as defaulting as far as the way the world views the value of US credit. The GOP would be doing massive damage to the economy by extending by just 6 weeks.

Yesterday. He said he would accept a short term rasing of the ceiling if it was clean.

 

[Takamura-San]

This is already exhausting.

This debt ceiling circus has to stop.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Going to seriously pissed if they extend the debt ceiling but keep the govt closed. Assholes in congress need to realize almost a million furloughed employees are dealing with their own debt ceiling during this bullshit.

From @jbendery (White House Reporter) on Twitter:

WH official responds House GOP's new plan: "Congress needs to pass a clean debt limit increase" AND end shutdown, then we'll talk budget.

So WH doubles down, makes sure GOP doesn't separate govt shutdown from debt ceiling hike. Fix both first, THEN budget talks are cool.

 

[Mighty Chin]

A Six Week extension means the Teapublicans have six more weeks to make themselves look worse.

 

[FlyinJ]

WH official responds House GOP's new plan: "Congress needs to pass a clean debt limit increase" AND end shutdown, then we'll talk budget.

Good.

 

[Takamura-San]

A Six Week extension means the Teapublicans have six more weeks to make themselves look worse.

And people still not get paid and the economy keeps getting fucked.

 

[Protein]

People need to start hitting the social media machine hard and express their outrage over the GOP and the huge bitchfit they're throwing. Tweet about it, talk about it, complain about it. So much missed opportunity while the other side is just spreading misinformation and blaming the Dems/Obama, not to mention the independent favorite: "both parties r equally shit."

 

[darkwing]

woah, so they can keep kicking the can down the street and meanwhile the shutdown continues?

 

[slit]

Going to seriously pissed if they extend the debt ceiling but keep the govt closed. Assholes in congress need to realize almost a million furloughed employees are dealing with their own debt ceiling during this bullshit.

From @jbendery (White House Reporter) on Twitter:

Yes, but notice it doesn't say they won't pass a debt ceiling bill by itself, just that they won't talk budget until the gov't is back open. This still gives the GOP an out. I knew they would try this, It was obvious.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Yeah, wife is a 17 year govt contractor with the DoD, just found out the company that currently holds their contract has a clause built in so they don't have to provide back pay in the event of govt closure, so the sooner this shit is done, the better.

but bulbo told me that 100% of the people would be paid 100% of the money

 

[Sanky Panky]

People need to start hitting the social media machine hard and express their outrage over the GOP and the huge bitchfit they're throwing. Tweet about it, talk about it, complain about it. So much missed opportunity while the other side is just spreading misinformation and blaming the Dems/Obama, not to mention the independent favorite: "both parties r equally shit."

The GOP hashtag of the day seems to be #Time4Solutions

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I was looking at my checking account this morning, before the shutdown, I generally would buy lunch 3-4 days/week, would have at least 2-3 Steam sale purchases listed, various other little odds and ends. Since the govt shut down the wife was furloughed, I literally have only bought gas to get back and forth to work in anticipation of how long this thing could go, and I won't be buying anything until this is over and know where we stand financially.

You multiply me by a million other furloughed families and the other multiple millions not spending due to fear of a market/debt collapse, the $300 million/day estimated loss numbers seem conservative.

 

[teiresias]

I was looking at my checking account this morning, before the shutdown, I generally would buy lunch 3-4 days/week, would have at least 2-3 Steam sale purchases listed, various other little odds and ends. Since the govt shut down the wife was furloughed, I literally have only bought gas to get back and forth to work in anticipation of how long this thing could go, and I won't be buying anything until this is over and know where we stand financially.

You multiply me by a million other furloughed families and the other multiple millions not spending due to fear of a market/debt collapse, the $300 million/day estimated loss numbers seem conservative.

Yeah I'm pretty much buying nothing but groceries and paying mandatory bills. I'm single, so only the one income, but luckily have hefty cash reserves (which ideally will be used for a home down payment next year, ha!) so would have no trouble for a long time, but I feel for people not in that situation.

 

[User 85168]

Why is the stock market up so high today?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

but bulbo told me that 100% of the people would be paid 100% of the money

I didn't say anything about contractors, Mr. Winwood.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Why is the stock market up so high today?

A little positive spin about a short term debt ceiling fix goes a long way.

 

[Blader]

You multiply me by a million other furloughed families and the other multiple millions not spending due to fear of a market/debt collapse, the $300 million/day estimated loss numbers seem conservative.

The loss will probably end up being more than that since (most?) federal employees will be receiving back pay for the furloughed days. At the risk of sounding insulting, that amounts to what are essentially paid vacation days. Meaning not only is the government bleeding money for a loss of revenue and productivity, but also from the retro pay that will be doled out to workers who didn't work.

basically, money is getting spent in both ways with nothing to show for it other than thousands of people who didn't want to not work in the first place.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Why is the stock market up so high today?

Wall Street are betting on Obama to accept the GOP's current offer. The market is so volatile that it jumps up on a just a temporary deal and proves what the markets think about the debt ceiling if we default.

 

[Hawkian]

Calling it now, smug press conference announcing a deal right before Thanksgiving full of stupid soundbytes like "we are all THANKFUL that Obama decided to negotiate" or some shit like that.

I like my federal job. I work hard at it and I feel proud to serve the public, but damnit I feel like such a pawn right now.

You're a knight in my eyes! <3

 

[teiresias]

The loss will probably end up being more than that since (most?) federal employees will be receiving back pay for the furloughed days. At the risk of sounding insulting, that amounts to what are essentially paid vacation days. Meaning not only is the government bleeding money for a loss of revenue and productivity, but also from the retro pay that will be doled out to workers who didn't work.

basically, money is getting spent in both ways with nothing to show for it other than thousands of people who didn't want to not work in the first place.

Let's not forget that many federal employees will still have "use or lose" leave they have to use by the end of the year as well. So some people will have to take "real" vacations as soon as they come back as well - unless OPM gives guidance later on how to claim shutdown time as vacation, but I don't see why any employee would do that

 

[slit]

Even Michele Bachman is saying raise it with no strings attached for now. This is what we have to look forward to during the holidays.

 

[SteveWinwood]

If this deal gets taken I will be sad

Sounds like it won't be though.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

If this deal gets taken I will be sad

Sounds like it won't be though.

Hope not, since it's bullshit.

 

[Aylinato]

Hope not, since it's bullshit.

CR in exchange for a debt ceiling increase.

 

[soundahfekz]

If this deal gets taken I will be sad

Sounds like it won't be though.

Dems know better than to fall for this. Obama isn't going to falter. Why would he, with Republican morale withering away on this ordeal?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Reid just Tweeted this, hopefully they stick to it.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

 

[nubbe]

Amazing that the American populace is so apathetic they let the political class hold them hostage over legislation that benefits them

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Boehner hates Hanukkah

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

Forget the fact that our current debt situation is a result of 8 years of Bush Jr.'s administration I guess.

 

[pigeon]

If this deal gets taken I will be sad

Sounds like it won't be though.

If Boehner can get a clean debt ceiling increase through, it'll get through the Senate and signed, no matter what anybody says. There's really no choice there -- the debt ceiling is a big deal.

Luckily, the odds are pretty strong that he won't get it through so far.

 

[teruterubozu]

No use sending messages to Boehner. He's just an errand boy.

 

[Riki]

No use sending messages to Boehner. He's just an errand boy.

What if we send him dead rats?

 

[soundahfekz]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

Americans on the whole aren't involved enough in politics, but slap them around enough times in a short period and they begin to pay attention. people are catching on to the GOP kicking the can down the road.

 

[Vestal]

If Boehner can get a clean debt ceiling increase through, it'll get through the Senate and signed, no matter what anybody says. There's really no choice there -- the debt ceiling is a big deal.

Luckily, the odds are pretty strong that he won't get it through so far.

Democrats need to stay the fuck out of the way on this. If a clean debt increase comes to the house floor you fucking vote yes on it. To not would send a fucking shockwave through the world economy.


If Boehner doesn't have enough votes from Republicans to bring it to the floor WE ARE IN SERIOUS FUCKING TROUBLE.