Support NeoGAF

[Hawkian]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

A cunning strategy matched only by a fourth grader going "hey look over there!" while stealing your lunch money at recess.

 

[pompidu]

whens the debt ceiling due date?

 

[pigeon]

Democrats need to stay the fuck out of the way on this. If a clean debt increase comes to the house floor you fucking vote yes on it. To not would send a fucking shockwave through the world economy.


If Boehner doesn't have enough votes from Republicans to bring it to the floor WE ARE IN SERIOUS FUCKING TROUBLE.

Eh. If Boehner doesn't have the GOP votes for the 6 week extension he'll just have to bring up a 6-month or 1-year extension. Or attach the clean CR. Who cares? He'll have to cave, is the point.

It would be pretty interesting for Boehner to just throw the bill on the floor without the votes guaranteed, but it would also be wildly out of character for Boehner.

 

[Vestal]

whens the debt ceiling due date?

17th.

According to experts the first checks start bouncing Nov 2nd.

 

[slit]

The Senate would have to let a clean debt ceiling bill go through, they have no choice. They have to stick to their guns on no deficit talks until the gov't reopens though. They should not weaken there.

 

[Vestal]

Eh. If Boehner doesn't have the GOP votes for the 6 week extension he'll just have to bring up a 6-month or 1-year extension. Or attach the clean CR. Who cares? He'll have to cave, is the point.

It would be pretty interesting for Boehner to just throw the bill on the floor without the votes guaranteed, but it would also be wildly out of character for Boehner.

nononononono. You do not put this bill on the floor if it won't pass. If it comes to the floor and doesn't pass it will be a remake of 2008 when TARP failed to pass and the market tanked 800 points.

 

[BLACKLAC]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

Disagree. The waters have already been tainted with their constant whining about the ACA, plus many R's are on record as wanting to give default a try. If they had tried this at the very beginning, maybe... The deadline is too close now.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

nononononono. You do not put this bill on the floor if it won't pass. If it comes to the floor and doesn't pass it will be a remake of 2008 when TARP failed to pass and the market tanked 800 points.

No it won't, there's a week left. No one doubts if this fails Boehner will come begging to Pelosi. Dems will and should vote no.

Boehner isn't letting a default happen, this is proof. With TARP there was a real fear a vote would never pass, this is just votes to see which deal will be.

 

[Vestal]

No it won't, there's a week left. Noone doubts if this fails Boehner will come begging to Pelosi. Dems will and should vote no.

Dems should vote yes. Voting no would give Republicans ammunition to say see we told you so.

 

[The Technomancer]

Dems should vote yes. Voting no would give Republicans ammunition to say see we told you so.

Agreed. if the clean CR goes up for vote they have to take it, it would be disastrous to do otherwise

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Dems should vote yes. Voting no would give Republicans ammunition to say see we told you so.

There wont be a default. the fact Boehner is even having this vote shows he'll do anything to avoid it.

Agreed. if the clean CR goes up for vote they have to take it, it would be disastrous to do otherwise

This isn't a clean CR this is a clean 6 week debt ceiling extension. It doesn't open the government.

 

[pigeon]

nononononono. You do not put this bill on the floor if it won't pass. If it comes to the floor and doesn't pass it will be a remake of 2008 when TARP failed to pass and the market tanked 800 points.

That's what I'm saying -- Boehner simply won't bring up the bill without 217 votes in hand, so there's no risk that Dems would have to actually vote against a clean increase. So they may as well hold out and demand a longer ceiling increase.

If Boehner just called the vote on the six-week increase everybody on the Dem side would probably have to vote for it. But there's way too much risk for him to do that.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Dems should vote yes. Voting no would give Republicans ammunition to say see we told you so.

Obama has said he won't negotiate with a closed government multiple times. I doubt this will make it through the Senate, but if it did, I'm guessing Obama would veto it.

 

[Vestal]

That's what I'm saying -- Boehner simply won't bring up the bill without 217 votes in hand, so there's no risk that Dems would have to actually vote against a clean increase. So they may as well hold out and demand a longer ceiling increase.

If Boehner just called the vote on the six-week increase everybody on the Dem side would probably have to vote for it. But there's way too much risk for him to do that.

IMO its to risky for Democrats to vote no on a clean 6 week debt ceiling increase even if it already has 217 to pass, it would paint the picture in the media that they are the obstructionists.

this entire battle is won or lost with public support.

 

[slit]

There wont be a default. the fact Boehner is even having this vote shows he'll do anything to avoid it.

Listen, Boehner is already cornered. You don't start poking him when there are lunatics in his caucus that don't really want to do this anyway. Not with something this important.

 

[Vestal]

Obama has said he won't negotiate with a closed government multiple times. I doubt this will make it through the Senate, but if it did, I'm guessing Obama would veto it.

umm its a clean debt ceiling bill for 6 week funding. You do not negotiate on this. Pass it and keep trucking.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This isn't just a clean CR it's also a vote AGAINST opening the government. It says they need to go to conference for a budget.

Listen, Boehner is already cornered. You don't start poking him when there are lunatics in his caucus that don't really want to do this anyway. Not with something this important.

Did you not watch plan B play out this January?

 

[pigeon]

IMO its to risky for Democrats to vote no on a clean 6 week debt ceiling increase even if it already has 217 to pass, it would paint the picture in the media that they are the obstructionists.

this entire battle is won or lost with public support.

I specifically said they SHOULDN'T vote no.

 

[Vestal]

This isn't just a clean CR it's also a vote AGAINST opening the government. It says they need to go to conference for a budget.

if its not a clean debt increase then yeah fuck them.

 

[slit]

This isn't just a clean CR it's also a vote AGAINST opening the government. It says they need to go to conference for a budget.


Did you not watch plan B play out this January?

We don't know that for sure, but if true that would probably kill it anyaway.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

if its not a clean debt increase then yeah fuck them.

It's not clean, the GOP wants a 6 week extension but without opening the government. Dems have to vote no on such bs tactics.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

if its not a clean debt increase then yeah fuck them.

Typo: clean debt limit increase.

If its just the debt ceiling I think it's important though I still think it won't come for a vote. It's just like the piece meal CRs. I know how important the debt ceiling is, I just don't think a vote today or tomorrow is that dangerous to vote no on.

 

[Timedog]

What if we send him dead rats?

I was thinking Bad Rats, but I don't know what Boner's Steam account is.

 

[railGUN]

Have there been any protests or anything of that nature?

 

[RoninChaos]

Why am I doing this to myself? I'm getting into a facebook argument with a friend of a friend because he's saying that the hostage taking the republicans are involved in IS LEGISLATION. The latest gem I got from him is this:

"Defaulting upon our debt" is a non issue. Complete hyperbole. Completely false. there is ZERO reason to not pay our Debt Interest. None. Period. Nada. You are arguing for something that is a complete falsehood. I can sit here and link up till I am blue in the face but that is a non issues and honestly a lie. We are funding lots of things that are critical every day. Debt service would not stopped just because we "run out of money". It simply means that other things have to stop being funded.We get more money every sincel day. It is not like the inflow of cash stopped. It is not enough to fund EVRYTHING.

*sigh*. I don't even know what he's talking about at this point. I love the part where he could provide proof, but didn't because whatever he's talking about is a lie.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

It's not clean, the GOP wants a 6 week extension but without opening the government. Dems have to vote no on such bs tactics.

They're two separate things. It's clean, just stupidly temporary. But it's also admitting they have no leverage now to threaten default and they'll be in exactly the same position in six weeks so there isn't much argument for holding it hostage again.

 

[slit]

Typo: clean debt limit increase.

If its just the debt ceiling I think it's important though I still think it won't come for a vote. It's just like the piece meal CRs. I know how important the debt ceiling is, I just don't think a vote today or tomorrow is that dangerous to vote no on.

The problem is this is NOT the sequester. We don't know how markets will react the closer we get to the deadline. Don't play with fire there. Now, if the debt limit increse comes with conference guarantees, then I'm with you. Not only should House dems vote against it but Senate Dems too.

 

[Link]

Intelligent move by the GOP. By moving away from the ACA debate and steering towards a more general deficit cutting discussion, they can shift some blame towards the Democrats while regaining a bit of ground.

Not really intelligent at all, since it shows people that the GOP has no clear goal or strategy aside from "Fuck Obama."

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The problem is this is NOT the sequester. We don't know how markets will react the closer we get to the deadline. Don't play with fire there. Now, if the debt limit increse comes with conference guarantees, then I'm with you. Not only should House dems vote against it but Senate Dems too.

The point is Boehner by even discussing this plan is telling the markets there will be no default. I'm not saying risk default I'm saying Boehner has taken the risk out himself. Make him sweet, the markets know a increase will be passed now. Boehner and leadership are on board with a clean bill.

 

[PhoenixDark]

umm its a clean debt ceiling bill for 6 week funding. You do not negotiate on this. Pass it and keep trucking.

No. Why not have the senate attatch a full DL raise+govt funding and send it back to the House. It's clear they will not allow a default, and that Boehner is in a corner. All this 6wk thing does is give him a life line while extending the shutdown by removing leverage.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

No. Why not have the senate attatch a full DL raise+govt funding and send it back to the House. It's clear they will not allow a default, and that Boehner is in a corner. All this 6wk thing does is give him a life line while extending the shutdown by removing leverage.

Exactly. Some families won't last another 6 weeks.

 

[Koomaster]

It's not clean, the GOP wants a 6 week extension but without opening the government. Dems have to vote no on such bs tactics.

Yeah this is less than nothing and should be treated as such. They just want 6 more weeks to twiddle their thumbs and claim the Dems aren't willing to 'negotiate'. Then in 6 weeks they will want to extend it another 6 weeks and so and and so on. Pass the CR, open the gov't, raise the debt ceiling, and stop taking the country hostage with this political farce.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Federal courts run out of money on October 17th. Many vet benefits end on November 1st. This is not the time to continue a shutdown. End this right now with a swift blow.

 

[Hawkian]

Why am I doing this to myself? I'm getting into a facebook argument with a friend of a friend because he's saying that the hostage taking the republicans are involved in IS LEGISLATION. The latest gem I got from him is this:

"Defaulting upon our debt" is a non issue. Complete hyperbole. Completely false. there is ZERO reason to not pay our Debt Interest. None. Period. Nada. You are arguing for something that is a complete falsehood. I can sit here and link up till I am blue in the face but that is a non issues and honestly a lie. We are funding lots of things that are critical every day. Debt service would not stopped just because we "run out of money". It simply means that other things have to stop being funded.We get more money every sincel day. It is not like the inflow of cash stopped. It is not enough to fund EVRYTHING.

*sigh*. I don't even know what he's talking about at this point. I love the part where he could provide proof, but didn't because whatever he's talking about is a lie.

Mind asking him for a link? (color of face optional)

I'm interested to see where he'd go to obtain an argument that defaulting is a "non-issue."

 

[RustyNails]

Government closed for 6 weeks is unteneble. What the fuck is boehner doing??

 

[RoninChaos]

Mind asking him for a link? (color of face optional)

I'm interested to see where he'd go to obtain an argument that defaulting is a "non-issue."

Yeah, I've asked. When I asked him if he knew what the debt ceiling was and why defaulting was a bad idea he told me not to make it personal. I'll let you know what he says.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Yeah, I've asked. When I asked him if he knew what the debt ceiling was and why defaulting was a bad idea he told me not to make it personal. I'll let you know what he says.

Just point him to the CNN article on what Treasury Secretary Lew thinks of defaulting.

"Between October 17 and November 1, we have large payments to Medicare providers, Social Security beneficiaries and veterans, as well as salaries for active duty members of the military," he said in prepared remarks. "A failure to raise the debt limit could put timely payment of all of these at risk."

"The United States should not be put in a position of making such perilous choices for our economy and our citizens," he said. "How can the United States choose whether to send Social Security checks to seniors or pay benefits to our veterans? How can the United States choose whether to provide children with food assistance or meet our obligations to Medicare providers."

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/10/news/economy/debt-ceiling-lew-testimony/index.html

 

[mackaveli]

Just point him to the CNN article on what Treasury Secretary Lew thinks of defaulting.



http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/10/news/economy/debt-ceiling-lew-testimony/index.html

Yeah, Jack Lew did a good job during his testimony in the morning. And Jim Cramer on CNBC (people may not like him) made a good point. The Democrats and everyone was talking about Interest on the debt and that's the bigger deal. But it seems like they changed their message recently and instead of making it an economic issue (the debt ceiling) they are making it more of a human / personal situation with discussing that your social security or medicare cheques won't come on time etc., and that will cause more people to hopefully voice their displeasure on the whole issue.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I really FUCKING hate this government shutdown, just before it happened I interviewed for an internship at the DOJ that I really want. The interview went really well but thanks to the shutdown I have no idea if I got the internship and the wait is killing me.

 

[Protein]

Why am I doing this to myself? I'm getting into a facebook argument with a friend of a friend because he's saying that the hostage taking the republicans are involved in IS LEGISLATION. The latest gem I got from him is this:

"Defaulting upon our debt" is a non issue. Complete hyperbole. Completely false. there is ZERO reason to not pay our Debt Interest. None. Period. Nada. You are arguing for something that is a complete falsehood. I can sit here and link up till I am blue in the face but that is a non issues and honestly a lie. We are funding lots of things that are critical every day. Debt service would not stopped just because we "run out of money". It simply means that other things have to stop being funded.We get more money every sincel day. It is not like the inflow of cash stopped. It is not enough to fund EVRYTHING.

*sigh*. I don't even know what he's talking about at this point. I love the part where he could provide proof, but didn't because whatever he's talking about is a lie.

You can't let ignorance like that go unchecked because it's poisonous. You destroy that guy and leave scorched earth.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Government closed for 6 weeks is unteneble. What the fuck is boehner doing??

Stalling.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

I agree with Matt Yglesias here--as do a few folks in this thread, of course:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/10/house_gop_floats_short_term_debt_ceiling_hike.html

Dems and Obama will absolutely have to pass the bill if it goes through--it's only up to the GOP nutters to stop it. I unfortunately think enough nutters will let this get passed, mainly because it ensures more phony existential conflict, and phony existential conflict is how these folks get their (guy and lady) boners.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Actual breakdown of US debt (via NPR) and my numbers from March.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Government closed for 6 weeks is unteneble. What the fuck is boehner doing??

Boehner is terrified of the Tea Party taking his job.

We have reached a point where this is no longer about the budget, Obamacare, or the debt ceiling. This is about a fringe group of lunatics bent on economic collapse controlling the actions of one rich white man who doesn't want to lose his position in Congress.

 

[Owzers]

Federal courts run out of money on October 17th. Many vet benefits end on November 1st. This is not the time to continue a shutdown. End this right now with a swift blow.

Here's what we're going to do, if a subject gets 3 hours of news coverage in a day on any given not MSNBC network, we'll consider funding it.

We'll also take discrete sexual acts as payment to put forth a funding bill.

 

[Tzeentch]

Mind asking him for a link? (color of face optional)

I'm interested to see where he'd go to obtain an argument that defaulting is a "non-issue."

-- Interest payments on the debt, backed by the full faith and credit of the US will be prioritized in the event of a 'default' over discretionary spending. It's not rocket science.

 

[FlyinJ]

Yeah, I've asked. When I asked him if he knew what the debt ceiling was and why defaulting was a bad idea he told me not to make it personal. I'll let you know what he says.

Don't make it personal. That is the shittiest cop out I've ever heard.

Actually, it falls directly in line with what I expect from people stupid enough to believe what the right wing media machine feeds them.

 

[Vestal]

-- Interest payments on the debt, backed by the full faith and credit of the US will be prioritized in the event of a 'default' over discretionary spending. It's not rocket science.

there is no mechanism to get this done.

 

[Trouble]

-- Interest payments on the debt, backed by the full faith and credit of the US will be prioritized in the event of a 'default' over discretionary spending. It's not rocket science.

This assertion has been proven false over and over again. There is no system in place to handle this unprecedented situation. Why do people think 'prioritizing' is a trivial thing to do?

 

[InsaneZero]

-- Interest payments on the debt, backed by the full faith and credit of the US will be prioritized in the event of a 'default' over discretionary spending. It's not rocket science.

Good luck prioritizing a gazillion different payments.