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[ZedIndyLil]

Read the article posted kindly by black mamba.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=85564996

I was writing a long and despairing followup when I saw your response, thanks. Hate Salon, but really like Beutler.

The article's take is somewhat reassuring, but still a lot of what-ifs. The best thing in today's news is Boehner's tell that he truly will raise the debt ceiling when needed. However, although our "trajectory" may be improved, it's still a reminder that we still are grappling with the dumb-as-shit precedent set in 2011, when Obama played the worst bit of politics he's ever done as Prez.

 

[Fenderputty]

I was writing a long and despairing followup when I saw your response, thanks. Hate Salon, but really like Beutler.

The article's take is somewhat reassuring, but still a lot of what-ifs. The best thing in today's news is Boehner's tell that he truly will raise the debt ceiling when needed. However, although our "trajectory" may be improved, it's still a reminder that we still are grappling with the dumb-as-shit precedent set in 2011, when Obama played the worst bit of politics he's ever done as Prez.

The what ifs seem to hinge on democrats sticking to their guns and continuing to refuse to negotiate with either a DL or CR hanging over their heads. So far both Reid and Obama are holding strong and I don't see much reason to think they won't. This news coupled with the news of senate r's working with dems to pass both cleanly has me feeling better.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

The what ifs seem to hinge on democrats sticking to their guns and continuing to refuse to negotiate with either a DL or CR hanging over their heads. So far both Reid and Obama are holding strong and I don't see much reason to think they won't. This news coupled with the news of senate r's working with dems to pass both cleanly has me feeling better.

Yeah, Reid in particular has been pretty good throughout this.

 

[Hawkian]

-- Interest payments on the debt, backed by the full faith and credit of the US will be prioritized in the event of a 'default' over discretionary spending. It's not rocket science.

Welp.

It is in fact not rocket science. On that you are correct.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...-and-wont-default-on-its-debt-obligations.php

Oh my.

I did misunderstand his claim, though, I guess. "'Defaulting on our debt' is a non-issue" sounds a lot like "Defaulting on our debt is a non-issue."

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Thats not going to do much unless he encloses a cashiers check of some large amount.

It is better to call actually. How it works (insider info) is that they tally the calls they get in their own constituency from their office in each city. If enough people call over a given period of time they start caring. Cause hey, elections are a thing.

 

[Gotchaye]

It is better to call actually. How it works (insider info) is that they tally the calls they get in their own constituency from their office in each city. If enough people call over a given period of time they start caring. Cause hey, elections are a thing.

Did you sit through the same presentation I did two nights ago?

Anyway, yeah, the lobbyist folks were saying that if staffers see a bunch of calls coming in about something in a short period of time they get together with the Congressperson and have to work out what they want to do about it.

 

[soul creator]

more Twitter updates:

So it would shut down again on the Xbox One launch day? The PR nightmare continues!

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Did you sit through the same presentation I did two nights ago?

Anyway, yeah, the lobbyist folks were saying that if staffers see a bunch of calls coming in about something in a short period of time they get together with the Congressperson and have to work out what they want to do about it.

Nah, was an aide a few years ago. Really good job if you want to be a lobbyist actually. Most Senators have a really informal system. Mine used a running tally and didn't take caller info. So you could easily make the issue seem more important than it was with a few extra hash marks.

 

[EatinOlives]

Enough with this weakass "open until six weeks" bullshit. Dems better not fall for this shit. Boehner's only stalling long enough for "news" media to grow bored of the shutdown and tire people out so that they have ammunition to get what they want. A six-week temporary opening will still leave the economy fucked. Hell, it may make it worse.

The Tea Party and Boehner need to be put in place before the 17th. If they manage to weasel some "temporary" resolution it means the Dems will actually be listening to them. They'll be engaged in some kind of response. They'll see it as a weakness and go for the throat.

The Dems can't forget this is extortion, pure and simple.

 

[jay]

Isn't there a decent chance that taking the six week extension and still not giving in to any of the demands will make Obama look bad publicly? The people already seem to blame both sides almost equally, I can only imagine how easily the GOP will be able to paint Obama as a tyrant willing to take compromise from his opponents but unwilling to bend at all himself.

I assume this is their entire strategy.

 

[kess]

Democrats are alleging the House Majority made a rule change ensuring a shutdown would occur:

The House GOP's Little Rule Change That Guaranteed A Shutdown

Late on the night of Sept. 30, with the federal government just hours away from shutting down, House Republicans quietly made a small change to the House rules that blocked a potential avenue for ending the shutdown.

...


Under normal House rules, according to House Democrats, once that bill had been rejected again by the Senate, then any member of the House could have made a motion to vote on the Senate's bill. Such a motion would have been what is called "privileged" and entitled to a vote of the full House. At that point, Democrats say, they could have joined with moderate Republicans in approving the motion and then in passing the clean Senate bill, averting a shutdown.

But previously, House Republicans had made a small but hugely consequential move to block them from doing it.

Here's the rule in question:

When the stage of disagreement has been reached on a bill or resolution with House or Senate amendments, a motion to dispose of any amendment shall be privileged.
In other words, if the House and Senate are gridlocked as they were on the eve of the shutdown, any motion from any member to end that gridlock should be allowed to proceed. Like, for example, a motion to vote on the Senate bill. That's how House Democrats read it.

 

[DarkFlow]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/10/...oughs-nuclear-safety-employees-starting-today

At the close of business today, more than 90 percent of the staff of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission will go home on furlough as a result of the government shutdown. The Commission had been operating on carryover funds since last Monday, when the shutdown began, but those funds run out today, reducing the staff to a skeleton crew of 300 "essential" personnel who will be responsible for monitoring the nation's 63 nuclear sites until the government reopens.

Those 300 employees do include resident inspectors who work on-site at the various plants, as well as a skeleton crew of managers in the central headquarters. More employees can be recalled in case of an emergency, but the furlough will inevitably delay the agency's response. "Yes, I am worried," Ed Lyman of the Union of Concerned Scientists told CNN. "You can only hope for the best that a situation doesn't occur during this time."

Let's all hope we don't die from a meltdown now.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Democrats are alleging the House Majority made a rule change ensuring a shutdown would occur:

I remember this one guy that made it a point to shut down the government...

I'm sure this will only go well.

 

[Riki]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/10/...oughs-nuclear-safety-employees-starting-today


Let's all hope we don't die from a meltdown now.

Just be thankful we don't have any tsunamis to worry about.

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

Just be thankful we don't have any tsunamis to worry about.

Hate to remind you, but we are in hurricane season now for the south and east coast. FIVE nuclear plants were temporarily shutdown from flooding and no power last year when Sandy hit. With a skeleton crew, that would have been a catastrophe.

 

[Riki]

Hate to remind you, but we are in hurricane season now for the south and east coast. FIVE nuclear plants were temporarily shutdown from flooding and no power last year when Sandy hit. With a skeleton crew, that would have been a catastrophe.

While this is obviously bad, none are in nearly as much danger as Japan's were. We didn't build right on the coast, and those areas aren't really prone to earthquakes (which did quite a bit of the damage).

 

[RoninChaos]

Welp.

It is in fact not rocket science. On that you are correct.

Oh my.

I did misunderstand his claim, though, I guess. "'Defaulting on our debt' is a non-issue" sounds a lot like "Defaulting on our debt is a non-issue."

He's going on a tirade now and I don't think I'm going to bother.

How you doing?

 

[Tesseract]

tom coburn is talking about social media for apples on cspan.

life is good.

 

[Vestal]

Isn't there a decent chance that taking the six week extension and still not giving in to any of the demands will make Obama look bad publicly? The people already seem to blame both sides almost equally, I can only imagine how easily the GOP will be able to paint Obama as a tyrant willing to take compromise from his opponents but unwilling to bend at all himself.

I assume this is their entire strategy.

simple. INCREASING THE DEBT CEILING IS YOUR DUTY NOT A COMPROMISE.


That's like if your lease is up for renewal and you have an issue with your landlord in regards to who pays for cutting the grass. You go on and pay your rent and tell him there I ncompromised now its your turn.

 

[Protein]

OT but Daily Show finally got around to reporting on Fox News' giant iPad newsdeck

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/w...astic-mr--fox?xrs=synd_facebook_101013_tds_85

 

[Tesseract]

tom coburn just dropped a let me google that for you.

 

[avaya]

How the fuck can you threaten to default on the country? It is fucking traitorous.

 

[Riki]

How the fuck can you threaten to default on the country? It is fucking traitorous.

Everything Boehner and the Tea Party have been doing has been treason at best and terrorism at worst.

 

[sangreal]

But they aren't ending the shutdown. They're giving the shutdown a vacation for a few weeks till the shutdown comes back because they still aren't getting what they want. Six weeks isn't going to change anything.

You can't keep putting people out of work every few weeks for this bs; it's unstable to families and unstable for the economy to keep living under this pall that every few weeks there will be another shutdown brought on by one side demanding something they can't have.

You really think anyone will want to spend any money when in a few weeks the gov't may be shutdown and put people out of work again and for who knows how long?

The crazies have pushed their own party into a corner where they can't win. There is nothing to give them that will appease them at this point nor should any concessions be made for this behavior. Keeping this thing going by delaying 6 weeks is only hurting everyone else. It's time for them to realize they have no bargaining chips and give up this charade so the gov't can go back to running like it should.

They're not ending the shutdown for 6 weeks either. My point is that if Obama says "I won't sign a clean debt ceiling bill unless you end the shutdown" he is doing the same thing as the Republicans saying "I won't vote on a debt ceiling bill unless you do xxx". Short-term extension is stupid (debt ceiling should be eliminated, it makes no sense), but if they pass a clean extension it should be signed. I don't see how it improves their position when the limit is hit again either

 

[Epsilon-delta]

They're not ending the shutdown for 6 weeks either. My point is that if Obama says "I won't sign a clean debt ceiling bill unless you end the shutdown" he is doing the same thing as the Republicans saying "I won't vote on a debt ceiling bill unless you do xxx". Short-term extension is stupid (debt ceiling should be eliminated, it makes no sense), but if they pass a clean extension it should be signed. I don't see how it improves their position when the limit is hit again either

That's a hard pill to swallow to those furloughed who won't get paid till this ends. 6 weeks is enough to destroy families.

 

[sangreal]

That's a hard pill to swallow to those furloughed who won't get paid till this ends. 6 weeks is enough to destroy families.

Yes, the shutdown is terrible but that has nothing to do with the debt ceiling unless you want to use the threat of default as leverage to end the shutdown. They're two separate problems.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Yes, the shutdown is terrible but that has nothing to do with the debt ceiling unless you want to use the threat of default as leverage to end the shutdown. They're two separate problems.

So the Tea Party can keep on pushing back the extension while people's lives are on the line, suffering through no-fault of their own thanks to this shitstorm.

It's a bs proposition and in my opinion, it's still extortion.

 

[Riki]

Worth a good watch. Really highlights some wonderful things.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/w...merica-sits-on-its-balls---colorful-analogies

 

[slit]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us/politics/debt-limit-debate.html?hp&_r=0

According to the NY Times Obama has rejected the offer on a short term debt increase. He really is standing firm, good for him.

 

[Riki]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us/politics/debt-limit-debate.html?hp&_r=0

According to the NY Times Obama has rejected the offer on a short term debt increase. He really is standing firm, good for him.

Thank goodness.

 

[Konka]

Backbone.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

The President is doing the right thing by rejecting that offer. All they want is to take some of the pressure off themselves while continuing to keep the government shutdown. The Republican Party really doesn't care about anything other than pure politics at this point, not what's best for the country, and it's obvious.

If they were able to successfully push back the debt ceiling while still leaving the government shutdown, it would embolden the Republicans to continue with their shutdown nonsense. And know what they would do when that short term debt limit comes close to expiring? They would again request another short term debt limit increase, again while keeping the government shutdown. The President, in my honest opinion, needs to break the back of this kind of extortionist bullshit here and now. It's important for the country, and future presidencies, that he re-establishes the balance of powers in this government.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I'm picturing the meeting looking like the getout gif.

 

[entremet]

So it took not needing a reelection for Obama to grow a pair it seems.

I'm glad he's not settling, because they just want to continue to hold hostages.

 

[~Kinggi~]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us/politics/debt-limit-debate.html?hp&_r=0

According to the NY Times Obama has rejected the offer on a short term debt increase. He really is standing firm, good for him.

oh shits.

 

[EatinOlives]

Awesome.

Bronco laying down the law. The GOP has been out of control.

 

[Hatty]

I hope he knows what he's doing

 

[narton]

Great. Now I guess I'll never get paid.

 

[Riki]

I hope he knows what he's doing

It's really the only thing can can do. Anything else would basically be the end of our democracy.

 

[slit]

Great. Now I guess I'll never get paid.

Wat, if he allowed that to go through the gov't would still be closed.

 

[sprsk]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us/politics/debt-limit-debate.html?hp&_r=0

According to the NY Times Obama has rejected the offer on a short term debt increase. He really is standing firm, good for him.

My man.

 

[Konka]

I hope he knows what he's doing

 

[Epsilon-delta]

The President is doing the right thing by rejecting that offer. All they want is to take some of the pressure off themselves while continuing to keep the government shutdown. The Republican Party really doesn't care about anything other than pure politics at this point, not what's best for the country, and it's obvious.

If they were able to successfully push back the debt ceiling while still leaving the government shutdown, it would embolden the Republicans to continue with their shutdown nonsense. And know what they would do when that short term debt limit comes close to expiring? They would again request another short term debt limit increase, again while keeping the government shutdown. The President, in my honest opinion, needs to break the back of this kind of extortionist bullshit here and now. It's important for the country, and future presidencies, that he re-establishes the balance of powers in this government.

Exactly. People need to understand that this shutdown affects more people than they think, not just federal workers. Both my grandfather and my father receive VA benefits and they don't deserve this extortion from the GOP.

They served their country, came back broken and now are suffering because the Tea Party doesn't approve of the ACA.

 

[entremet]

I can't believe the GOP even put that offer on the table. It was a super shitty offer lol.

 

[Riki]

I can't believe the GOP even put that offer on the table. It was a super shitty offer lol.

They're getting desperate. They're hoping that any CR+Debt Extension will go through, regardless of what's attached.
They know they're beat, they're just being whiny bitches and sore losers.

 

[Vestal]

To be clear , the offer was not a clean debt increase??

 

[NullPointer]

Loving this article.

GOP plummets, Obamacare soars in shutdown standoff

The silver lining Republicans spotted in some pre-shutdown polls was that Americans seemed poised to take their anger out on both parties, or the more generic “Washington.”

Nope.

But the number that’s truly apocalyptic for Republicans is respondents’ views of the Affordable Care Act. The law is actually gaining support in the latest poll: 38% of respondents now say the law is a good idea versus 43% who say it’s a bad idea, a major bump from the 31-44 margin it polled last month and its best result in over a year. The surge in support comes despite a glitch-filled rollout of the law’s exchanges that’s proving a publicity problem for the White House.

The entire animating principle behind Senator Ted Cruz’s pre-shutdown strategy was that a confrontation over funding the law would shine a spotlight on its weaknesses, leading Americans to rally to the GOP’s side. Instead it looks the GOP’s unpopularity is producing a rally effect in support of the ACA. It’s an utterly bonkers result that undercuts the most basic conservative assumptions about the shutdown.

 

[slit]

To be clear , the offer was not a clean debt increase??

Unknown, but it seems like it was clean.

 

[Riki]

To be clear , the offer was not a clean debt increase??

It was, but with other stuff attached and it was all horribly temporary. It was a rotten deal.

 

[demon]

Loving this article.

GOP plummets, Obamacare soars in shutdown standoff

Gop: "I think I made a huge mistake."