If there was other stuff attached then it wasn't clean.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
- Status
If there was other stuff attached then it wasn't clean.
NullPointer
Member
Then it wasn't clean.
I think the issue here is raising the debt ceiling AND funding the government so that negotiations can begin. That's the entire point.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Clean as in a 6 week extension yes.
No, it wasn't clean
They also wanted a commitment for negotiations while the government was still shut down
That article reads like it was officially clean but they wanted an unofficial commitment to negotiate to reopen the government from Obama. I think.
Edit: beaten. And wrong. So nevermind.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Ok then, I'm still glad Obama didn't back down.
EatinOlives
Member
Why should any kind of negotiation begin? That's basically doing what the GOP wanted by shutting down the government.
It wouldn't even be a negotiation. It would be Republicans saying "We want X, and you get jack squat."
Those are terrorist demands.
NullPointer
Member
Negotiations *after* the government is funded and the debt ceiling raised I mean. These two things have to occur first for their to be negotiations, and then those negotiations have to occur, so, I'd imagine passing a CR at current low-balled levels for the next year would be a non-starter as well, even if clean.
No worries. I know how you feel., Been on flu meds all week. Makes me smile like a madman though, hah. Woooooo!
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Basically, Obama has always been getting one over on and out thinking the Republicans from the get go. It's just that he was a lot more willing to allow them to save some face in the process, or at least appear -- however meaningless -- as if they had actually won something real for the long term, when in fact he just gave them a short term victory of sorts that he could talk about. He also especially hoped it would improve some of their behavior, but he now knows, beyond a shadow of doubt, after many attempts to work with these jokers, that there's nothing he can do or say to take away the level of hatred that they have for him being inside that White House.
Don't think for a single second that it isn't apart of the Republican calculation for the President to shoulder blame for a first in history United States default. That's what this bs offer was all about. Besides the batshit insane ones, Republicans don't want this to happen. They're hoping they can somehow get the President to blink, and that they can get something politically out of it. The only way for this to end, the only way that it should end, is for the Republicans to face complete embarrassment by giving the President everything that he's asking for, which isn't very much to begin with. Do your job; be reasonable, responsible adults, and stop trying to make people suffer needlessly because you hate the black President in the White House.
I know this is a crazy suggestion, but crazy times call for extraordinarily crazy measures. I think the President should completely ignore the debt ceiling and raise it himself using that oft mentioned constitutional option, and in doing so, cite the very dangerous and unprecedented atmosphere of hatred and obstruction that he's dealing with right now in today's congress. And, as President of the United States, he's tired of watching as a few reckless individuals happily sit around celebrating, and continuing to get paid by this government while millions of people suffer, people they clearly don't care about, or else they would have done something by now. He's on very firm and solid footing to go and do this damn thing himself, and he has pointed out time and time again that he's against this course of action, but this is that time.
Edit: Fact is if the President possessed the power right now to end all of this, open the government back up, and raise the debt ceiling, he would in a heartbeat. That's the reality that the Republican Party is living with at this moment, and I think it absolutely tears at every fiber of their being that people are aware of this. The President isn't the problem here. It's the Republican Party.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Has someone added the spending reductions in one column since President Obama came into office versus the revenue increases in another column? To hear the Republicans tell it, it's been nothing but hard line stance after hard line stance, but my feeble mind only remembers outcomes heavily tilted in the GOP's favor.
Shake Appeal
Member
...and the Treasury has stated categorically that it is not.
Elfforkusu
Member
The Kohn Brothers funded a whole series of these.
ZedIndyLil
Member
That NBC/WSJ poll is extremely amusing. Hope it's not an outlier. In any case, my pessimism, expressed mere tens of posts ago, is dissipating somewhat. If R's truly absorb the info in this poll, then a short-term extension of the CR/debt limit will hopefully turn into a long-term one.
Yep, apparently the party that wants the government to invade peoples vaginas is against the government invading peoples vaginas.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I think it is the height of irresponsibility for anyone to encourage people to opt out of health insurance just to score political points. Exploiting young people's feelings of invincibility when a single catastrophe can bankrupt that individual or family and make it difficult, if not impossible, to buy a car or a house or even obtain certain jobs -- it's disgusting. I don't care what you think about the ACA or President Obama or "socialism," if you are for this "opt out " tactic, you are [Keith Olbermann] the worst... person... in the world.[/Keith Olbermann]
Good Job Obama, you do not negotiate with terrorists.
Calling It: Government will be back come Tuesday after the federal holiday on Monday. GOP has exhausted their options and are just looking to save some face coming out of this meeting at the WH.
At least I hope this is what happens. My wife's ratio of furloughed time off to housework being done is woefully inadequate.
At least I hope this is what happens. My wife's ratio of furloughed time off to housework being done is woefully inadequate.
My understanding is that there's no mechanism for actually doing this. That the processing of payments from the treasury can't actually be prioritized in the manner you suggest.
It's certainly possible that this notion is being spread as a game theory thing, cutting off a potential avenue of escape in order to put more pressure on the GOP to just raise the ceiling no strings attached. But I haven't seen anyone actually address this point. Do you have any evidence or special insight showing that this prioritization is possible?
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Basically there is no deal but they agreed to continue talking.
Which is a good position for Obama.
Gives him the appearance of wanting to work with Republicans, while allowing them to keep sinking lower on the polls.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
It's so frustrating for me as a software architect to listen to people slam ACA because the website is down. People just have absolutely no clue at the level of complexity a piece of software of that nature has. They have no comprehension that it's almost literally impossible to test every single circumstance under which the site will be used. Hearing politicians point to the website being down as evidence of the program being misguided or a failure just makes me so furious. It's like developing a rocket and expecting it to work 100% the very first time it's launched, and skipping all real world condition testing until it's in production. The government should have pulled a google and just slapped a "BETA" logo on it for the first month it was available.
It's not, the system pays whatever comes in. It's basically a first come, first serve bases for all payments. It can't tell what is what or if something is more important then the other.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Oh. Carry on, then.
I've read an article or two explicitly stating the software the government uses is incapable of prioritizing payments.
RustyNails
Member
Money quote:
This is the end game. There is no other way out for GOP. Obama and Dems are standing firm on "reopen government", and now the public is behind them as well.
OBL, Assad, GOP.
Now he just needs to free North Korea and he'll be a legend forever. Ending tyranny all over the world!
The fuck? What was the GOP hoping to gain by taking that ability away from the Treasury? To completely scuttle this country's ability to stand on its two feet during these political squabbles? That has Tea Party written all over it- I guess they're trying to set up a future strong-arm tactic?
. Hopefully that progresses smoothly.Desperation.
They're looking for anything. Anything at all, that they can get to make President Obama look bad. Doesn't matter what.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
There can be a point where you've lost so much support that you don't try to salvage any.
yes it makes the debt limit fights more dire and more frequent (since the treasury can't push out the date)
Randolph Freelander
Member
As an application developer inside a very large bank, I give this a boldfaced, underlined, and italicized "quoted for truth."
I still wonder why they didn't do that. I also winder if it would have been possible for the government to do a large-scale closed beta, or at least server stress tests, if they didn't in fact do those things.
Not to mention that unless you're Microsoft all those launch servers will end up going to waste after demand tails off.
Has there been any talk of ut getting DDoS attacked?
Edit sorry posted to incomplete
But seriously, considering the rabid hatred some people have for the aca, healthcare.gov must be a tempting target. Its surprising there havent been any attempts. At least known ones. Even if typicaltea sipper isnt really computersavy enough for it, there has to be plenty of botnets out there they could pay to take a shot at it. Is it possible there have been atta ks that for some reason the wh just hasnt mentioned, or are the problems the sitehas more then can be explained away with a ha k attack?
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I'm sure they did stress test it, but unless they are leasing capacity from a server farm and use virtualization so they can dynamically increase the amount of servers to meet demand they probably never intended the system to be used at the levels of load it is currently seeing. In fact, it probably never will face this level of load at any point in its existence. The other thing is that stress testing is sort of an imperfect science. In my experience it's done with idealized test cases in which all of the steps are followed properly. When you add in the human element things change.
I haven't heard anything about a DDoS. It's not outside the realm of possibility but I would imagine it's not really that appealing a target given it's not really critical to anything other than your personal political stance at this point. No one needs the plans until Jan 1. They have three months to get things done.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, my roommate is a software engineer and he was basically making that same rant the other night.
Most political website hacks seem more about making statements then being effective. Giving obamas signature piece growing pains seems like enough for some people. Especially considering the republican narrative of "its not ready because the website is broke." It would be a pretty big albeit temporary thorn in obamas side, at least, as most of the sunday shows pointed out, the gop hadnt gone and made bigger news.
Zero-Crescent
Member
Indeed, the Treasury department confirmed during the last go-around that they cannot prioritize payments for two reasons: 1) The Treasury processes more than 80 million payments per month, all of which are authorized and appropriated by Congress, who did not assign any sort of priority for the payments at the time of approval. 2) The Treasury's systems are only set up to make payments in the order that they are due.
Because of those two reasons, if the debt ceiling is hit, the "least harmful" option according to Treasury officials, is to use a "delayed-payment regime," where "no payments are made until they could all be made on a day-to-day basis." Of course, since the US runs a deficit, the delays would quickly get worse and worse.
More details are in the document below, though I've quoted the relevant sections from Enclosure 1, Pages 5-6.
Source: http://www.treasury.gov/about/organ...ebt Limit Response (Final with Signature).pdf
He's a fucking moron.
what you guys think of this
- Status