Their same approach to a lot of issues they don't like. Hamper a system to the point it makes their point.
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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
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Their same approach to a lot of issues they don't like. Hamper a system to the point it makes their point.
The incredible irony of today's conservative/libertarian.
jamesinclair
Banned
Too much risk. When the fake-city-bubble bursts, and the proletariat rise, China be worth avoiding.
Sort of makes more sense to just use water as your base currency. It's like the gold standard, but it's actually worth something and it's unlimited.
Or some guy was talking about using cows as currency. I hear they're a good investment.
Doesn't matter. I've just heard this talking point a lot lately and it makes no sense.
No other Asian countries would want that as China already pisses most of them off.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Why is a currency pegged to various currencies not appropriate?
smokeandmirrors
Banned
China is the freest free market economy in the world right now and possibly entire human history. That country has absolutely no law or moral code to guide any business action. It is not socialist. It's a perfect example of autocratic capitalism.
Its a point to show the volitiiy of the American political process.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown_in_the_United_States In particularly, the 1990 shutdown is interesting.
I don't want any of them Democrat or Republican beholden to their constituents of bum-eff Mississippi or wherever actually in charge of running the stock market. I do however, recognize the importance and essential duty of congress to effectively regulate the unbridled free-market with smart regulation (if possible).
Sanky Panky
Banned
Your "stark reality" is blindsided by your indoctrination in a hypothetical view of the world, where governments suddenly don't continue to borrow (at rates affected by the market demand for bonds) and print at their heart's content. No matter what fantastical mechanism of the Fed being the sole buyer of treasuries as you might propose, central banks throughout the world, and through history, know better not to do that. Fiat currency has been around since the times of Ancient China, and the lessons have been learned over and over again.
The financial reality of the world is that the government has to constantly renew debt through auctions that are subject to the market demand for bonds (except the Fed has been plugging the hole in demand with QE). Large pension funds and investment funds are under strict investment policy statements that often prohibit the ownership or allocation to bonds under certain ratings, and different ratings are assigned different risk parameters that will lead to portfolio reallocations.
We shouldn't worry YET that foreign governments will dump treasuries, but the facts are that China is actively calling for an alternate global currency. This will be the the end of both the dollar, and of low interest rates. Here is a chart of foreign holdings in treasuries by the way:
The dollar is not immortal, and the central banks don't follow koo koo MMT ideas because they know better.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
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Sanky Panky
Banned
It's refreshing to see someone in the mainstream media (MSNBC) snap and tell it all like it really is:
NEWS ANCHOR COMPLETELY LOSES IT
NEWS ANCHOR COMPLETELY LOSES IT
Yes, it well known now what they might try to do. If they do that they are truly insane. That won't work and they'll really get the ire of the country. I have to believe the "adults" in the GOP are not that stupid.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
maquiladora
Member
Aaron Sorkin couldn't write something that good.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Meh. "We spend a lot and these large numbers seem big and there are a lot of taxes," but yelled.
Ok, gets better as it goes on.
Because the peg can be set at whatever the country wishes it to be. That's why the US was on China's case for the longest time because the RMB was artificially low and distorting import/export markets.
Can someone clear something up for me:
The blame on passing the Senate's clean CR has, I assumed, always been on Boehner's shoulders because the House had the votes to pass it but no could vote on it unless Boehner put it up for a vote. But that rules change that the House GOP implemented on Sept. 30 indicate that no House member could vote on a bill unless Eric Cantor (or someone he appointed) brought it up.
So it Boehner's or Cantor's fault that the House has been unable to vote on the clean CR?
The blame on passing the Senate's clean CR has, I assumed, always been on Boehner's shoulders because the House had the votes to pass it but no could vote on it unless Boehner put it up for a vote. But that rules change that the House GOP implemented on Sept. 30 indicate that no House member could vote on a bill unless Eric Cantor (or someone he appointed) brought it up.
So it Boehner's or Cantor's fault that the House has been unable to vote on the clean CR?
empty vessel
Member
Nope. Central banks set interest rates exogenously. This is well understood and not controversial.
Those rules should probably be changed so they are no longer irrational. For example, those rules should quite obviously exclude the sovereign debt of a currency-issuing government like the US. And should credit ratings agencies change their stupid ratings for US sovereign debt so as to "disqualify" institutional investors from buying US Treasuries, I assure you those rules will change, because no sane person denies that US Treasuries are the safest financial asset in the world to own. And, yes, that holds even if Republicans elect to delay some interest payments.
Why should anybody be concerned about China "dumping Treasuries" (whatever that means)? Feel free to articulate the mechanics of how that happens and how it causes whatever results you fear.
Trickster
Member
This guy, I like him.
NullPointer
Member
That's an old clip, just to be sure. Two years old?
The last time we had a shutdown was over 16 years ago so it's not like this happens all the time. I'd be more in favor of finding a way to prevent future shutdowns than going for a super limited government.
I was more commenting on the general "look at how broke Washington is" line of arguing that I keep hearing from people who support these extreme tactics to get what they want. Specifically regarding the stock market I'm not sure if they would be the best at running it but a little more transparency wouldn't hurt.
Random raging screaming outrage aimed at "both sides" with no clear solution is applicable to anything bad that happens in politics.
THEY ARE PASSING IT ON TO MY KIDS!
Mr. E. Yis
Banned
He also spoke about banks and lobbyists controlling Washington, and saying the President should call them out on it in front of the people (though not sure what good that will do). A statement so blunt and obvious is rare by the neutered corporate media.
Punchy4486
Banned
Yep, just had my insane (like, Obama hates America and the troops, was born in Kenya, Hillary has a secret hit squad, and the Rapture is coming crazy) Tea Party aunt just post that same clip to defend the Republicans and attack the Democrats.
As for the second part, you can see the government shut down alot more from 1976 through the mid-90's. It wasn't all the time, but it wasnt seldom. Since 1976, 16 years is the longest we went without a shutdown!
As for the second paragraph of your post, Im pretty much with you. Its ridiculous for Republicans to use that argument right now. I fervently disagree with the socialization of the stock market or any other facet of the economy, but Im with you that transparency is in order. And further, tough regulation on the banks is in order. (IMO, this was the biggest failure of Obama...to not really take it to the banks and stop that "too big too fail" crap.)
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
The louder you say it, the truer it is. It's a mathematical fact.
In wish someone, anyone would drop a pipe bomb every one in awhile in Congress.
Congrats you're now on a watchlist.
Sanky Panky
Banned
They can only set the fed funds rate (and operations in the discount window) that affects banks. Even then, the fed funds rate usually follows the Taylor rule, which is dependent on levels of expected inflation and GDP. The Fed has limited power to set inflation expectations (therefore the nominal rates accross the yield curve), which we know falls apart based on what investors overwhelmingly expect that to be. If you need evidence, see what bond rates did the minute the rumor of tapering happened. The Fed did NOT intend for that to happen.
Considering rating agencies have been used by the money managers of the world, to assess sovereign risk... perhaps YOUR views are the "irrational" views here? P.S. if you want to measure T-bills as "safe" under the main tenets of investment management (volatility), things are quickly changing for T-bills.
P.S. volatility also is factored into portfolio allocation.
China is holding a TRILLION and change in US treasuries as reserve assets they buy to suppress the renminbi against the dollar. They can sell those treasuries for an alternative (which they have been pushing for since 2009). It's quite simple actually.
Dylan Ratigan doesn't even work in TV anymore:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-may-21-2013/life-after-cable-news---dylan-ratigan
SlipperySlope
Banned
Some people forget that the government shut down three years in a row in the late 70's.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Hate to tell you this, but anyone who replies to him will be too.
Sanky Panky
Banned
Hmm yeah saw that. It is still just as relevant today as ever.
And all throughout the 80's. Most of the time the Democrats held the House.
Not blaming one party of the other on this point...just is what it is.
Might be the closest we have gotten to defaulting on the debt celing...thats a different animal IMO.
JesseEwiak
Member
Most of the time the shutdown in the 80's were for a few days at most (half the time it was over a weekend which meant that almost nobody noticed), were over impasses over actual budgetary matters, and neither side thought it was a _good_ thing the government was shutdown.
JesseEwiak
Member
At this point, Boehner ain't doing anything without Cantor's OK and vice versa. So, it is both of theirs fault, but the moment that Boehner says we're putting x to a vote, Cantor is going to agree to it.
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