Are you black?
Julianne Hough (Actress/Singer/Dancer) Blackface Halloween costume
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Are you black?
Shamrock7r
Member
Nope
If you are dressing up as a specific black perosn why not focus on what makes that person unique? Folks cosplay Ichigo all the time from Bleach but they don't get eye surgery or tape their eyes. They focus on his unique clothing and hair.
Not a great example. With Ichigo's hair color a lot of folks probably assume he's white.
This and every variation of this is the correct answer. Anyone arguing otherwise is willfully ignorant or just playing devil's advocate because they are bored. This is not some philosophical conundrum, don't paint your face.
Then they put very little thought and research into their character.
Well that explains a lot.
You made a post about her costume having "context". Well there's the context of being a black person that you will never understand, hence your surprise at the outrage.
A lot of these aren't technically blackface but come on let's stop with painting yourself to look black.
Fashion Designer Allesandro Dell’Acqua And More Wear Blackface To African Themed ‘Disco Africa’ Halloween Party
They are impersonating this famous italian spot from the 80s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU_z6NbnKPM
It went on air until the beginning of the 90s I have seen it a couple of times but I ws too young to connect it to a coloured man.
The ad was inspired by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jolson
Shamrock7r
Member
I knew exactly where you were going with that and I'm sorry but that doesn't fly. I gave you reasonable answers to my opinion so countering with "yea but you aren't black" isn't good enough.
They are impersonating this famous italian spot from the 80s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU_z6NbnKPM
It went on air until the beginning of the 90s I have seen it a couple of times but I ws too young to connect it to a coloured man.
The ad was inspired by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jolson
Yeah, they are in blackface.
Yeah, covered already in the dozen or so other blackface threads this year, but painting your face is the same as taping your eyes, is the same as any other makeup used to make yourself a caricature of any race. That's ignorant, at best.
All that Al Jolson shit and that dumb Italian ad, straight up racist ass shit.
Count Dookkake
Member
Is it safe to assume then that you agree with every claim made by so-called internet feminists?
Your "reasonable answers" certainly aren't a substitute for knowing what it's like to be black.
samus i am
Member
I am sick of this shit every Halloween. If you are an American celebrity living in 2013 you absolutely should know that this is offensive. No excuses!
yes they are, but in a different way, if it wasn't an african themed party there wouldn't be any problem.
No, there is no good blackface! Regardless of the theme of the party it is still racist as shit.
Shamrock7r
Member
It seems to me you don't care to have an actual discussion about this topic.
Like what?
Knowing something is offensive and caring something is offensive are two completely different things.
Count Dookkake
Member
Irrelevant, going by your logic.
The discussion is that a woman needlessly painted herself black, in light of the fact that doing so is extremely reminiscent of when people did it in order to mock, degrade, and insult black people.
And you cannot see how this could be seen as offensive?
blackface is an american thing.
The spot had nothing to do with coloured people, it was an ad for black sweets with a jazz like theme, I don't know what the creator was thinking but the result wasn't racist at all.
It's racist for you because you know the blackface story. Most people saw it as a clown or monster not as a coloured man from africa, especially people born after the ww2 who didn't have to live colonialism and mussolini's propaganda.
Of course that ad won't be aired today, and we are extremely careful with racism in the media, unless it's made by far right politicians from lega nord party.
Shamrock7r
Member
I am not going to repeat myself so I ask that you please look at my post history in this topic and read exactly what I've said in regards to the picture, being offended, the term offended. I think you will find that our opinion isn't all that different if you read what i am writing and not get caught up over one word
Being black for white people means they only assume the superficial appearance of being black for a temporary time in order to play a role or pretend to be someone who is black, for fun. While actual black people live every day black, cannot pretend not to be black, or shed themselves of society's hurtful stereotypes of black people, like the white people in black paint are able to do. The white people who paint their skin black are insensitive to black people for the reason that black people are marginalized for the way they look - the color of their skin - to the point it defines many blacks' life experiences. So when a white person casually assumes that visual, apparently unaware of the privilege them being white grants them, it makes some people uncomfortable.
The faster we all get over this? This is supposed to be a group, humanitarian project, right? So the vast majority of media being white centric, the vast amount of wealth and power being held by white interests, the systemic favoring of the fair skinned will all be equalized (because these are the actual racist agents in our society) if blacks just stopped calling each other "nigga," pulled up their pants, and let white people cavort around in skin paint? Never mind all the excellent posts in this thread pointing out that society doesn't view whites and minorities on the same plane, thus to expect equal treatment in discrete situations isn't prudent. What some are failing to realize is that pretending society is at that point where skin doesn't matter is actually hurtful to recognizing the stark double standards and injustices that exist inherently within this system in which we are all constituents. To expect apathy from the oppressed class isn't the answer; identifying the destructive factors that promote racial friction so that all demographics can eradicate said factors is the answer. Here's an effective, concise video on the subject.
The power dynamic of our society isn't conducive to treating everyone in a vacuum. That context that whites maintain cultural dominance and exert oppressive forces on minorities is still there, and to pretend (in all the ways it can be manifested in every day life) it isn't is ignorant and insensitive. Intent does not absolve anyone of not knowing that what they do is potentially offensive to people.
Always been racist, fuck that.. shit isn't even funny -_-
GhettoGamer
Member
Sigh, you can dress as a black charcters without the need to paint your skin. People have stated this a million times in this thread and yet people cannot, will not grasp the concept. Ignorance at its finest here.
Why focus on the hair? Because it has a distinct pigment that might help identify the individual?
(Note I had no idea who Ichigo was I had to google it)
samus i am
Member
Are you for real? Coloured implies that the default skin tone for everyone is white, and not being white is against the norm. Is that what you are saying to me? Is that how you feel?
I'm gonna call BS here. We all know if she'd dressed up as that character without using makeup there would be people out there accusing her of trying to "whitewash" the character in effect.
Insisting that her costume was racist because she dressed up as black character is just as ignorant as you're accusing me of being. It's ignorant of her intent and it's ignorant of context.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Why do you need to paint your skin black?
Yes, we understand that, and most agree.
Still doesn't make what she did:
A) Racist
B) Blackface.
It's insensitive only when viewed superficially. She didn't put on black makeup to demean anyone or any race. It is certainly not what is considered to be blackface.
How about this as food for thought- What she likely thought of as another trait of the character (like any other physical attribute) is all you are focusing on.
OK, yes...I agree with anything a feminist has ever said. Do you have a point?
Does your post history address my post? That painting one's face black conjures actual memories of what life used to be like? A life that wasn't that long ago, with the residue still festering to this very day?
Regardless if it's only an American thing(which it isn't) they are still doing blackface.
The only purpose of blackface is to demean and ridicule "coloured" people(as you call us). For that simple fact, their motivation is irrelevant
Nigger is very much an American thing. Would you call "coloured" people niggers?
That is ridiculous. The people here who have issue with painting yourself to look black wouldn't give two flying fucks about her costume if she hadn't painted her skin.
Is this what the is quibbling over? Whether it was classic "blackface" or not?
Is it blackface at all?
According to the definition, it isn't. But when I say this I get
'Dictionary is infallible?'
'You just don't understand.'
'I've done research on the subject' (when asked to show this evidence, did not)
Or something to that effect. From everything I know and what I've read, there is much more to blackface then just painting your skin dark. Is that all it takes?
Because some people aren't so stupid as to pretend they don't see color. I'm white. If somebody wanted to do a proper likeness of me and they weren't white, it would help if they tried to match my skintone.
Its just skintone. We're not all the same skintone. Its ok to acknowledge this. Its only if you pretend that means something it doesn't that you have to worry.
Well since no one has put on a public minstrel show since the 60s, yes.
Otherwise, it's not blackface unless you are "performing" as well.
So, was Robert Downy Junior being "racist" and using "blackface" to disparage a race of people in Tropical Thunder? I don't think anyone could make an argument that he was. Neither was this actress. I don't see how anyone could honestly take this as such. Julianne Hough intended no harm in what she did. So why ostracize her for it? Why bend her to your view?
If she dressed that way then spouted off at the mouth. Or painted her face to look like the old Jim Crow cartoons (Which is what blackface is) then I could completely understand the uproar. But this is just people and the media making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Pure and simple.
That's not the literal definition of the word, which does include Minstrel show in the definition, because that's kinda what blackface was. They weren't separable.
So unless it's a minstrel show, it isn't blackface?
FaintColt388301
Member
I agree. I get that some people get offended but it's silly. She wasn't trying to demean anybody. Her intent was not bad in the least. She just wanted to look more like a character. Yeah, she could have gone without it but she didn't and it's not that big of a deal. People just want to be offended by things all the time
You are aware that Robert Downy Jr was playing a roll right? It is not even remotely the same thing as a costume.
Leonardo DiCaprio said nigger quite a bit in Django unchained and everyone knew(every rational person) it was a role. Michael Richards did a 5 min rant about niggers on stage as himself and everyone(rightfully so) gave him shit.
Comparing a movie roll to a halloween costume is ridiculous.
I'd say it definitely is fucked up. No kinda about it.
Definition: The makeup used by a nonblack performer playing a black role. The role played is typically comedic or musical and usually is considered offensive.
Anything which purposely utilizes stereotypes and characteristics to intentionally offend and ridicule.
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