PS4 can't play MP3, Music Unlimited needed for background music [Up:Yoshida responds]

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Scene:

A meeting in a Sony office.

There are 2 people in suits, one with a ratstail haircut, the other wearing big thick glasses with non-prescription lenses, and an engineer.

Engineer: So, when we launch we're including MP3 playback and DLNA.

Suits in sharp intake of breath

Rattail suit; NOOOOOOO. We at Sony Pictures cannot condone DLNA as it's mainly used to stream STOLEN COPYRIGHTED MOVIES AND TV SHOWS!!!!

Thick glasses suit: NOOOOOO. We at Sony Music wish to generate easy subs for our Music Unlimited streaming service. And also we wish to prevent the playing of possibly STOLEN COPYRIGHTED MUSICS!

Engineer: K. You do realise that not including these things, even though our customer data says less than 20% of our users would uses these features, is going to kick up an absolute shitstorm at launch, yeah? Altho thanks - it's two less jobs on the Day 1 project list for us to have to worry about.
 
This whole "Music Unlimited" business is the first time I've considered holding off on buying a PS4. Not because I'm impacted by the media decisions (don't stream media, play videos, or listen to music on my PS3) but because it's the first blatant cash grab that offers Sony's users absolutely nothing in return.

The online gaming paywall has demonstrable benefits for we, the end users, even if the requirement to pay does suck. But this media garbage? It is purely about taking options away so Sony's other divisions can try to cash on in Playstation's success. The consumers lose choice and a range of functionality for Sony's potential gain, period.

Despite all the little disappointments--lack of Youtube uploads, lack of external storage--none of them is a deal breaker, the PS4 is still the only option to me for this upcoming generation. Almost everything else can be chalked up to lack of time before launch, technical difficulties, or at worst, incompetence.

The Music Unlimited thing, though? That's the first ugly side I've seen to the PS4. I'm happy to wait and see what you do about that, Sony.
 
People should tweet yosp about the "developers have control over whether you can use the share button" thing.

It's not the end of the world, but it is annoying, especially since we're not guaranteed common-sense limits on these restrictions.

Take a game like Rising, for example. The final boss would be a spoiler for that game, but it's also a really amazing fight. Are we guaranteed that they will lift these limits after release? Why does it matter that I am streaming a game's final boss to some friends?

Seems unnecessary and would not be an issue if HDCP removal were not a last-minute choice.
 
At this point I'd be happy with an acknowledgment that they had planned to add this at a later date and it just won't be there at launch. If that was always the case, man did they fuck up the faq wording. I wonder if it went through the legal department who stripped out any wording that might commit them to something that wasn't finished yet just in case it didn't happen.
 
Hellraizer said:
So they wait for the inevitable backlash to fix something that needed no fixing before? No wonder both Microsoft and Sony struggle on all business fronts.
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They're both corporations trying to dig for cash. We should trust them about as far as we can throw them.

...that's never made sense to me.

vogelkacke said:
ill be happy to eat crow if they backtrack and make background music free again :)
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Fingers crossed.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
People should tweet yosp about the "developers have control over whether you can use the share button" thing.

It's not the end of the world, but it is annoying, especially since we're not guaranteed common-sense limits on these restrictions.
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It was requested by developers/publishers as a means to minimize YouTube spoilers.
It could be abused, it may be annoying, but I think it will stay.

Unlike DLNA/MP3, it is far from being a dealbreaker, though.
 
godelsmetric said:
Didn't Carmack completely rewrite Doom 3's sound engine in a number of weeks? No excuses.
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heh, as a developer.. frankly you are barking up the wrong tree. For me to change a single line of code in a brand new shiny work request is probably at least 8 hours of work just to get to QA. literally a single line of code CHANGED.

To actually roll out a new OS service implementation even using existing libraries? Weeks or months.

Obviously each company is different.. but from work request to production in a corporate IT environment is a lot longer and more complicated than most non-developers realize.
 
At this point with all the recent developments it looks like we will get a confirmation that support will be added over time not too far from now...

Unless they're just trying to make it pass in silence of course, still a tiny possibility.
 
vogelkacke said:
to be fair they are being honest with all this. better than sweeping it under the rug.
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but this is kinda "sweeping it under the rug" they wait around 3 Weeks before release to post the FAQ? most people who preordered will be too excited to say "oh...thats a bummer, i cancel my preorder" the all will be like "Aww...well they might patch it up". sony didnt want a backlash like the 2006 presentation after building up the hype in 2005E3 and TGS. something you expect to work gets canceled to promote ones own service...sneeaky sony sneeeeeaky. pay again for songs you allready own.
 
Well give Yoshida some credit, he also dealt with the whole HDMI Capturing (was it?) matter which I think was a more trivial thing than this.
 
ibun said:
but this is kinda "sweeping it under the rug" they wait around 3 Weeks before release to post the FAQ? most people who preordered will be too excited to say "oh...thats a bummer, i cancel my preorder" the all will be like "Aww...well they might patch it up". sony didnt want a backlash like the 2006 presentation after building up the hype in 2005E3 and TGS. something you expect to work gets canceled to promote ones own service...sneeaky sony sneeeeeaky. pay again for songs you allready own.
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Sweeping it under the rug would have meant letting everyone find out for themselves on Day1. 2 weeks prior to launch is still plenty of time to make a principled pre-order cancellation.

I would also suggest that the success of Spotify means that people are quite happy to pay again for at least some songs they already own. I don't see the point of streaming music services personally, but I know lots of people who do.
 
So, 19 hours since Major Nelson said he would track down som answers on where MS stand on this.

Not finding the answers he wants?
 
Amused said:
So, 19 hours since Major Nelson said he would track down som answers on where MS stand on this.

Not finding the answers he wants?
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It's very odd. I can only assume that they too are now scrambling to try and put something together for it.

FranXico said:
If they hadn't taken down that insulting post, the backlash would have been higher. And I mean orders of magnitude higher.
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Oh, I have no doubt. Especially with that, "You want to listen to music on PS4? Now you can, with Music Unlimited!" line. I mean, WOW. Major PR fumble there.
 
FranXico said:
No. The faster they decide, plan, and announce the proper fix for this, the better.
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That's what I said last night. I still hold to my comments on the over reactions, concern trolls, and just outright idiocy but the ways to handle it are by means that can directly be seen by Sony or people in the mix.

I tweeted Yoshida and many people did the same. Also, the blog post on MU was taken down by probably some people expressing their concerns.

So, the quicker they see the concern over this, the quicker they get to alleviating.
 
Tourmeta said:
At this point with all the recent developments it looks like we will get a confirmation that support will be added over time not too far from now...
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Agreed.

This will be fixed/180'd.
I think this is actually a perfect time for people to be vocal about things (big or small) like this. Weeks leading up to launch Sony is definitely in 'PR win' mode. Anything they can either hit MS with or just straight up look like they care more about their consumers will have a big impact. Unless it's something major that can't be corrected in a firmware update (i.e. straight disc backwards compatibility), I would fully expect them to be vocal about any changes based on consumer feedback. Yoshida knows this. That's why he's being diligent with his tweets.
 
DieH@rd said:
6 moths ago everybody was happy beacuse of the gamers-first approach....
http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/30/s...dia-hub-and-says-playstation-4-is-for-gamers/

30 MAY 2013 - Hirai acknowledged the PS4 will have non-game applications. But Sony will not emphasize those at the outset as it did with the launch of the PlayStation 3 game console in 2006.
He said Sony would add other entertainment apps, “But that’s after we establish the platform as a video game platform. We want to make sure that we are there for the gamers with our PS4 as well. They will go beyond this, but they’ll definitely start with gamer first.

He concluded, “For us, it’s all about the gamers.”

And now.... when Sony is indeed focused on gamers-first approach, gates of hell have opened because multimedia support is not great. Sigh. They cant make everybody happy.
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Not gonna talk about DLNA, but basic MP3 support directly effects games for people. Remember a time when custom soundtracks on the xbox and 360 were a big talking point/positive point in the "console wars?" it was like that for a reason. It is a great feature and actually can effect the lasting enjoyment of a game.

I've personally experienced it. Being able to basically compile the best of fighting game music (and other tracks that you won't find on services like music unlimited), make it into a playlist and put it on while playing Super Street Fighter IV with my friends greatly made the experience of playing the game fresh again and feel that much more better, even added a whole other level of excitement depending on the track.

I know many people who hate the soundtrack in certain games (not talking about score, but games with licensed music) and the game is almost unplayable for them due to the music, but with custom soundtracks they can play something they like in the background themselves.
 
LiquidMetal14 said:
I tweeted Yoshida and many people did the same. Also, the blog post on MU was taken down by probably some people expressing their concerns.
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I'm not sure if you had the opportunity to read it, but that post was insulting. It read "So, you want to play your own music? Now you can!" when referring to MU. I personally felt offended, it was mockery, pure and simple.
 
Why do people keep saying thy removed the blog post? It's still there, I just clicked link in OP and it still says doesn't supprt Dlna or media servers.
Or am I missing something?
 
The solution for all of this is simple. (apologies if someone has all ready suggested)

1 - Reinstate CD, MP3 and DNLA support so that people can play their current music on the PS4 as they would the PS3
2 - Allow background music in games only when streamed from Music Unlimited

That way, we would all retain the functionality we have come to expect from a console and Sony could promote Music Unlimited as providing additional functionality for those who want it/ can afford it.

Everyones a winner.
 
DuncBob said:
The solution for all of this is simple. (apologies if someone has all ready suggested)

1 - Reinstate CD, MP3 and DNLA support so that people can play their current music on the PS4 as they would the PS3
2 - Allow background music in games only when streamed from Music Unlimited

That way, we would all retain the functionality we have come to expect from a console and Sony could promote Music Unlimited as providing additional functionality for those who want it/ can afford it.

Everyones a winner.
Click to expand...

I would be ok with this.
 
farisr said:
Not gonna talk about DLNA, but basic MP3 support directly effects games for people. Remember a time when custom soundtracks on the xbox and 360 were a big talking point/positive point in the "console wars?" it was like that for a reason. It is a great feature and actually can effect the lasting enjoyment of a game.

I've personally experienced it. Being able to basically compile the best of fighting game music (and other tracks that you won't find on services like music unlimited), make it into a playlist and put it on while playing Super Street Fighter IV with my friends greatly made the experience of playing the game fresh again and feel that much more better, even added a whole other level of excitement depending on the track.

I know many people who hate the soundtrack in certain games (not talking about score, but games with licensed music) and the game is almost unplayable for them due to the music, but with custom soundtracks they can play something they like in the background themselves.
Click to expand...
There's a simple answer to what DieH@rd's saying: If Sony was so concerned about making it a gaming-only system, Music Unlimited wouldn't be there either.

Music Unlimited being there at launch is the proof that Sony recognizes custom soundtracks is a popular feature, and the proof that Sony recognizes that certain media apps have a place on a gaming-centric system.
 
DuncBob said:
The solution for all of this is simple. (apologies if someone has all ready suggested)

1 - Reinstate CD, MP3 and DNLA support so that people can play their current music on the PS4 as they would the PS3
2 - Allow background music in games only when streamed from Music Unlimited

That way, we would all retain the functionality we have come to expect from a console and Sony could promote Music Unlimited as providing additional functionality for those who want it/ can afford it.

Everyones a winner.
Click to expand...
I would be ok with this.
 
CREMSteve said:
Why do people keep saying thy removed the blog post? It's still there, I just clicked link in OP and it still says doesn't supprt Dlna or media servers.
Or am I missing something?
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The blog post we are referring to was a post promoting Music Unlimited in the european blog, not the FAQ.
 
FranXico said:
I'm not sure if you had the opportunity to read it, but that post was insulting. It read "So, you want to play your own music? Now you can!" when referring to MU. I personally felt offended, it was mockery, pure and simple.
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I read part of it but don't really agree on them doing that in principle so I went to tweet Yoshida and see who I could ask behind the scenes.

Seems like they at least know and hopefully have put it sooner on the roadmap of features once the console is out but as I said almost immediately; The top priority is to get a working console with a functioning OS/features plus good network.

Based on what I've seen for myself and have been told, you shouldn't worry about PS4 right now. Xbone, that is not so good right now and I've also seen the current state it's in as of 3 days ago.

The reason I bring that up is to put some perspective on Sony's position and focus right now. Based on what I've seen, things are looking in shape for PS4.
 
Surprised so few people use DLNA. I do see how different devices have come to replace consoles as the workhorse for that kind of stuff though. It is much easier to use my ROKU which is always on.
 
DuncBob said:
The solution for all of this is simple. (apologies if someone has all ready suggested)

1 - Reinstate CD, MP3 and DNLA support so that people can play their current music on the PS4 as they would the PS3
2 - Allow background music in games only when streamed from Music Unlimited

That way, we would all retain the functionality we have come to expect from a console and Sony could promote Music Unlimited as providing additional functionality for those who want it/ can afford it.

Everyones a winner.
Click to expand...

Fuck that. I want mp3's for background music.
 
DuncBob said:
The solution for all of this is simple. (apologies if someone has all ready suggested)

1 - Reinstate CD, MP3 and DNLA support so that people can play their current music on the PS4 as they would the PS3
2 - Allow background music in games only when streamed from Music Unlimited

That way, we would all retain the functionality we have come to expect from a console and Sony could promote Music Unlimited as providing additional functionality for those who want it/ can afford it.

Everyones a winner.
Click to expand...

As much as I would love to play my own music in game, I would accept (not be happy, but accept) this.
 
Why are people fighting for CDs? Why the hell haven't you people ripped this shit yet!?!??!? The other stuff I get, but CDs? We've known since like February that the system wasn't going to play CDs and at the time everyone was like "CDs!? lulz"

MP3 and DLNA I get. But CD's.. I mean for fuck sake.. take the 5 minutes per disc and get that shit ripped.
 
I would much prefer it if music unlimited was a good service that people would subscribe to without having to be forced to.

I'll give Sony the benefit of the doubt, having Shu answered and all, but this is not what I expected from the three musketeers.

Edit: I read the 'exploring possibilities' thing. That starts to sound better, and more in line with what I've come to expect from Sony in the last months.
 
borghe said:
Why are people fighting for CDs? Why the hell haven't you people ripped this shit yet!?!??!? The other stuff I get, but CDs? We've known since like February that the system wasn't going to play CDs and at the time everyone was like "CDs!? lulz"

MP3 and DLNA I get. But CD's.. I mean for fuck sake.. take the 5 minutes per disc and get that shit ripped.
Click to expand...

Ya, external HD should be a bigger issue I think.
 
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