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[Moneal]

1) What's a "tof camera"?

2) PS4 camera has two sensors... pretty sure it can tell depth from those, too. Kinda like how your eyes work, ya know?

even says so in the description on amazon: "The newly developed PlayStation Camera for PlayStation 4 incorporates two high-sensitive cameras that have wide-angle lenses with 85-degree diagonal angle views which can recognize the depth of space precisely."

 

[Begaria]

This is my toaster:

Don't let it fool ya, next year it will do something that will blow your mind. Right now, it's just warming up...

I hear your toaster has overheating issues. When it crashes, does the bread come out untoasted, or does it superheat the bread into a crushed black state?

Man. I don't even know what I'm referencing anymore.

 

[OmegaDL50]

It's amazing how quickly everybody forgets this shit. I remember my roommate's 360's dropping like flies, I remember the deluge of angry customers at the game store I worked at back then, I remember cringing every time I booted up my near-launch model 360, and I remember the utter lack of reporting on it until it was essentially nearing the end of the scourge and revisions finally fixed the issue far too long into the console's life.

I wonder if's an apathy towards consoles failing.

I mean if people had the same aggressive campaign towards the 360 failure rates, as they did with the Xbox One DRM thing, I wonder if Microsoft would have been incensed enough to actually do something other then extended 3 warranties and console replacements.

Upon retrospect looking at the console revision numbers. I think the PS2 and PS3 had more changes then the 360 did. This lackadaisical approach towards hardware failures just didn't sit well with me.

While I am probably going to get a PS4 and XB1 eventually, it definitely won't be at launch. Leave to the pre-orders and people that wait in line of their launch units to do the beta testing for me, so that if any problems do arise, they'll be addressed when I do decide to pick up my PS4 and XB1.

 

[Rebel Leader]

the ps4 has a camera too.

Optional =O

 

[frizby]

Why are you making this personal?

Not at all. I'm mostly just amused and would love to know:

1. What type of software you think Kinect is capable of that the PS Camera isn't
2. What specific software or demonstrations you've seen of Kinect 2 that prove it performs even remotely as advertised
3. What software is currently being shown for Kinect that you think is remotely compelling
4. Whether whatever software you list above offsets both (hell, either) a $100 higher price or weaker multiplatform games

Thanks.

 

[Jedi2016]

even says so in the description on amazon: "The newly developed PlayStation Camera for PlayStation 4 incorporates two high-sensitive cameras that have wide-angle lenses with 85-degree diagonal angle views which can recognize the depth of space precisely."

Yup, there you go.

Microsoft created super-advanced software that can derive depth data from a single camera, then encased this software in specialized hardware capable of performing this function (since it's far too computationally intensive to pass to the console), at significant cost to themselves and to the customer.

Sony just added a second camera.

That's the thinking behind two identical products, one from a software company and one from a hardware company.

 

[TAJ]

Offering high resolution screens first and making a big deal about them has been a key point of Apple's strategy, and now Android device makers do the same thing.

Motorola started the resolution wars with the original Droid.
Android devices have owned the lead most of the time since. But none of them are "Retina", lol.

 

[plagiarize]

Sure, let me throw this gasoline onto the fire: I didn't think Microsoft's original plan for DRM on XO was that big a deal. Just like I don't think the resolution thing is that big a deal.

Maybe I've just been doing this for long enough to not get worked up over things like this before I've even touched or used the thing in question.

as an individual you're allowed to think that. as an individual, I don't expect you to see anything wrong with the major gaming press uniformly running articles that agree with your opinion. op ed or not.

but step back for a second. get outside your own head for a minute here. these things are major issues. if they weren't, we wouldn't have had dozens of huge threads debating these very points.

that the uniform reaction of gaming sites to those large debates is 'look at all those stupid fanboy pixel counters getting upset over something unimportant' should be cause for concern.

you keep saying 'show me the news story that's editorializing this'. that's pretty hard for me to do, because for example, arstechnica don't seem to have posted one. they didn't report the news.

but Ben did take the time to write a fairly long post with graphs and everything to tell me why I shouldn't care about that news. It repeatedly belittles people that do care about the actual difference. you say he's just saying in his own opinion that it's not a big deal to him...

but you're wrong.

It also seems equally clear, to me, that the difference just isn't that big a deal—unless you plan on playing games while looking through a magnifying glass.

These tidbits seem to have a small but loud corner of the Internet convinced that Microsoft's system is overpriced and underpowered, incapable of keeping up with the PlayStation 4.

If you're the kind of person who values actual gameplay, though, choose your next console based on the games.

this last quote bothers me the most. obviously if I want the system that plays the games better, I'm someone who values gameplay. to imply that you'd have to be someone who doesn't value gameplay to care about the difference between 720p vs 1080p... it's insulting to all of us that do.

making out that we're just a 'small loud corner' of the internet is an attempt to marginalize us.

inferring that we play games with a magnifying glass, as if we're actively looking for defects to rant about rather than being distracting from enjoying the game by them, suggests that we don't really care about games.

what is concerning, is that the op ed pieces are uniformly downplaying both the differences, and belittling those of us that care about them, fairly uniformly on the major gaming sites. the very same sites we should be trusting to focus on the gaming perspective of these new consoles. I can go to mainstream media sites to find out how all the other stuff the consoles do shake down.

they didn't report the news. they downplayed it with op ed pieces.

that should be concerning to anyone hoping to see a video game website serve the video game consumer, rather than the people trying to sell the damn things.

 

[harSon]

Shane left after the major lay offs and he returned as a guest every now and then. It was essentially the Ellis/Lee circle jerk without him on there. The podcast was awful because they flat out denied the red ring of death was a major issue and when Microsoft admitted it was an issue it was downplayed. The NA gaming press has been insanely pro Microsoft for a while now. Sony does everything right, Microsoft drops the ball, and all of sudden resolution is irrelevant, frame rate is irrelevant, price is irrelevant, and it's all about the games that don't run as well.

It's obvious what era of 1up I'm talking about, and regardless, it doesn't really matter what era we're talking about. You're not mad because the media is being unfair in its coverage, you're made because you feel that there's a disproportionate love affair favoring Microsoft at the expense of Sony's media spotlight. Evident by the fact that you're 100% okay with being Shane a definite homer, due to the notion that other people on the show were homers of a different cut. It's a flat out ridiculous and hypocritical position.

 

[Ishan]

Microsoft uses this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera

Sony is essentially doing this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereopsis#Computer_stereo_vision

Sonys approach to depth needs a lot of computation i would imagine. The Kinect sensor inherently has hardware which gives you a rgb d image. which is an image where with each pixel you have a colour as normla and a depth reading also.

Im not arguing that the kinect being included is good or bad thats for others to judge. I am however saying the kinect is an impressive piece of tech and does offer "hardware" advantages over ps4 for those things.

There is a reason there were rumours that the kinect was adding a lot to the cost. tof camers are not cheap.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Not at all. I'm mostly just amused and would love to know:

1. What type of software you think Kinect is capable of that the PS Camera isn't
2. What specific software or demonstrations you've seen of Kinect 2 that prove it performs even remotely as advertised
3. What software is currently being shown for Kinect that you think is remotely compelling
4. Whether whatever software you list above offsets both (hell, either) a $100 higher price or weaker multiplatform games

Thanks.

I suspect the biggest issue with kinect is that no one has figured out how to make a killer app for it, something that will become the next Wii Sports.

It's been out for three years now. It's had some success with the dancing games, but nothing really that's both innovative and fun. Maybe someone somewhere has a great idea for it, but from what's been announced for it so far I suspect the industry will give it as much attention as they did with the PS Move.

 

[PolarGamer]

Edit: I'm staying on the fence for the rest of the evening. Drunk.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's obvious what era of 1up I'm talking about, and regardless, it doesn't really matter what era we're talking about. You're not mad because the media is being unfair in its coverage, you're made because you feel that there's a disproportionate love affair favoring Microsoft at the expense of Sony's media spotlight. Evident by the fact that you're 100% okay with being Shane a definite homer, due to the notion that other people on the show were homers of a different cut. It's a flat out ridiculous and hypocritical position.

He didn't say that it was okay for Shane to be a homer. His point was that it was sad that a fanboy like Shane had to be on the podcast for Sony to get any attention that wasn't negative.

 

[Slashlen]

And there's the punchline. LMAO.

 

[plagiarize]

Not at all. I'm mostly just amused and would love to know:


What type of software you think Kinect is capable of that the PS Camera isn't

two regular cameras won't be able to do the face scanning Kinect Sports Resort (or whatever it's called) is doing.

What specific software or demonstrations you've seen of Kinect 2 that prove it performs even remotely as advertised

again, the avatar scanning in Kinect Sports Island Adventure is (while still a bit wonky at times) far beyond what the original Kinect was capable of when it came to scanning in real world things.

What software is currently being shown for Kinect that you think is remotely compelling

They've got one first party title that is a more transparent rip off of Wii Sports Resort than the original was a rip off of Wii Sports. It might be as fun as the original Kinect Sports, but I don't find it remotely compelling... and it's not at launch... and it's the only major title announced.

Whether whatever software you list above offsets both (hell, either) a $100 higher price or weaker multiplatform games

Thanks.

It doesn't come close. I still cannot fathom how little Microsoft have done to try to justify the extra $100. That's why we're all just saying the 'cheaper console is more powerful'. Because if Kinect looked compelling, we'd consider it part of the bundle.

Instead it just looks like some piece of crap we don't want.

Im not arguing that the kinect being included is good or bad thats for others to judge. I am however saying the kinect is an impressive piece of tech and does offer "hardware" advantages over ps4 for those things.

There is a reason there were rumours that the kinect was adding a lot to the cost. tof camers are not cheap.

It does. I was really excited when I saw the specs. But if Microsoft aren't leveraging them, how can we expect anyone else to bother?

 

[blitzcloud]

$100 shouldn't be the reason why you go with one console over another. It's a ridiculous reason.

Take the 360/ps3 for example. I've gotten 8 years out of my xbox 360. I enjoyed my time with it and Im glad I chose the 360 as my console of choice. $100 over the long run over 8 years shouldn't be a reason why you choose one console over another. I'm willing to spend an extra $12.5 a year for 8 years knowing that I made the right decision.

You bought the cheapest console (minus the wii), as a matter of fact.

Also, all the posts that talk about the price difference not being relevant... sigh. Just...sigh. Of course an ouya at $100 is not gonna be relevant to a XB1 for $500. They are nothing alike, and you may get 20 times or even more the visual fidelity and enjoyment. Thing is, Ps4 and Xb1 are face-off competitors, and a price difference IS a factor for the average consumer. Want to bring motivation and consumer fidelity (which is essentially what you're doing talking about the PAST console from MS)? okay, but it doesn't make for an objective argument.

The psx gave me awesome games, ps2 too, why did not everyone just buy the most expensive ps3 at launch? Given the track record, it should have been a giveaway. Who cares if it was like $150-200 more?

 

[TAJ]

Yup, there you go.

Microsoft created super-advanced software that can derive depth data from a single camera, then encased this software in specialized hardware capable of performing this function (since it's far too computationally intensive to pass to the console), at significant cost to themselves and to the customer.

Sony just added a second camera.

That's the thinking behind two identical products, one from a software company and one from a hardware company.

Why do motion capture studios use dozens of cameras (and apply copious amounts of tracking markers) if they only need two to reproduce depth perfectly without time-of-flight?
You should patent your amazing two 2d camera breakthroughs.

 

[Grimhammer]

My brain physically hurts from reading and seeing the jurnos from game sites, suggesting 720p is equal or better than 1080p.

Usually you can determine whether a statement is false in intent or truth by subbing the subject.

Lets try!

Go to your local Marble Slab and ask for a medium cup of your fav ice cream. As she/he rings you in....tell them you wish to remove 40% (or half if your prefer .......and pay her/him full amount.

Now here's the pudding.....look at there face....if you see confusion/shock/ incredulity ....you know your xbone is not the 720p master box the jurnos are proclaiming.

 

[entremet]

Are people not calling out the XB1?

I guess I don't visit many game sites. The last site I was visiting with regularity was the old 1up in its prime and that was mostly for the podcasts.

 

[Serick]

Are people not calling out the XB1?

I guess I don't visit many game sites. The last site I was visiting with regularity was the old 1up in its prime and that was mostly for the podcasts.

Pretty much. All we've gotten are disingenuous op-eds that downplay the XO's deficiencies.

 

[Slashlen]

My brain physically hurts from reading and seeing the jurnos from game sites, suggesting 720p is equal or better than 1080p.

Usually you can determine whether a statement is false in intent or truth by subbing the subject.

Lets try!

Go to your local Marble Slab and ask for a medium cup of your fav ice cream. As she/he rings you in....tell them you wish to remove 40% (or half if your prefer .......and pay her/him full amount.

Now here's the pudding.....look at there face....if you see confusion/shock/ incredulity ....you know your xbone is not the 720p master box the jurnos are proclaiming.

Maybe someone isn't hungry enough to eat the whole thing. If someone has a 720p TV, they don't really need 1080p. Of course, those people tend to be more price sensitive and it's an extra $100. That's where MS seems to be in trouble. Short of "this is where my friends play" or "I need this/these exclusives", people are going to go for price or power.

 

[Serick]

Maybe someone isn't hungry enough to eat the whole thing. If someone has a 720p TV, they don't really need 1080p. Of course, those people tend to be more price sensitive and it's an extra $100. That's where MS seems to be in trouble. Short of "this is where my friends play" or "I need this/these exclusives", people are going to go for price or power.

1080p downsampled to a 720p still looks better than 720p. To be fair though, this is where the "you'd need a microscope to tell the difference" and "most people can't tell" arguments would actually hold some merit.

Also, you could just order a small instead.

 

[Reg]

Shane left after the major lay offs and he returned as a guest every now and then. It was essentially the Ellis/Lee circle jerk without him on there. The podcast was awful because they flat out denied the red ring of death was a major issue and when Microsoft admitted it was an issue it was downplayed. The NA gaming press has been insanely pro Microsoft for a while now. Sony does everything right, Microsoft drops the ball, and all of sudden resolution is irrelevant, frame rate is irrelevant, price is irrelevant, and it's all about the games that don't run as well.

Pretty much sums it up. And it was no surprise that Ellis ends up at a microsoft studio working on Halo.

 

[Slashlen]

1080p downsampled to a 720p still looks better than 720p. To be fair though, this is where the "you'd need a microscope to tell the difference" and "most people can't tell" arguments would actually hold some merit.

Also, you could just order a small instead.

I'll take your word on the downsampled, but I agree with you on the small and that was my point about price. Those who want more power can order the more powerful one and those who don't need it can order the cheaper one. The problem for MS is that they are neither of those things. They need to convince people that their exclusives are worth the extra cost or loss in power.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I applaud them for their efforts but Cinemablend simply isn't big enough to make a dent in this firewall of obfuscation. We need many more websites or a few big ones to take gamers side on this issue. Sony has been really quite on the performance front for a very long time. It is obviously strategic but I look at that as the one mistake they have during the run up to launch. They simply shouldn't have let this slide for so long.

 

[plagiarize]

Are people not calling out the XB1?

I guess I don't visit many game sites. The last site I was visiting with regularity was the old 1up in its prime and that was mostly for the podcasts.

It's the WAY in which this news has been reported. For example, here's the news story Gameinformer posted:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...tion-for-call-of-duty-ghosts-on-xbox-one.aspx

Our Take
This kind of information stokes the flames of the console war between Microsoft and Sony fanboys, but the reality is most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two on a standard sized HDTV. The bigger point of differentiation that will motivated buyers this holiday will likely be the $100 difference between the platforms. For Call of Duty, the most important factor is that each version runs at a silky smooth 60 frames per second.

IGN:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10...native-1080p-on-ps4-upscaled-720p-on-xbox-one

Call of Duty: Ghosts next-gen resolution rumors caused an online stir this week, but it's been put to rest. Call of Duty turned 10 years old this week. For more on the history of the franchise, check out the series' stats infographic and IGN's Visual History of Call of Duty.

Gamespot posted an actual news story on this, just confirming the resolution differences.

Of course they then posted an op ed piece about how it doesn't matter, that makes fun of people that care about the difference, having their comments read out in patronizing voices. "It's just people who were going to buy a PS4 anyway willy waving!" as if those of us buying a PS4 aren't doing so because it's a technically superior piece of hardware.

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/feedbackula-call-of-duty-hd-hullabaloo/2300-6415889/

Edge Online. I can't find a news story on this. I can find an article, again, belittling those of us that care about such things.

http://www.edge-online.com/features...of-the-ludicrous-magnificent-resolution-wars/

I'm not going to keep going, because... yeah. It's fucking depressing.

 

[Serick]

They need to convince people that their exclusives are worth the extra cost or loss in power.

I'm fairly certain the general consensus on GAF has been that Microsoft and the media alike needs to be beating the drum of the strengths of the Xbox One. Not trying to rely solely on downplaying the difference in power.

If they can't give us a legitimate, honest, consumer focused reason to want the Xbox One (above the personal reasons like friends lists, and tastes in exclusives) then they need to keep their mouths shut. Especially the "journalists".

But even then, the power difference would still be there, and would vary from developer to developer. Some might go 1080p and cut out effects that appear in the PS4 version. Some might go sub-720 and let performance die on the vine like most devs did at the end of this gen. Now matter how you look at it, it's not a simple matter of how many pixels your TV displays, it's how many features XB1 versions have to cut to match PS4 performance.

And I completely agree with you.

 

[toastyToast]

Wasn't the PS3 lambasted for its inferior multiplatform games for most of this gen? The difference is nowhere near as big as it is between these two consoles.

How is this even happening?

 

[Jedi2016]

Why do motion capture studios use dozens of cameras (and apply copious amounts of tracking markers) if they only need two to reproduce depth perfectly without time-of-flight?

Based on this, I'm going to assume you don't have the slightest idea how motion capture works.

Ever wonder why they don't just set up a Kinect to record Avatar?

 

[JDSN]

Now this is from the same guy less than two months ago



http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-09/10/vita-tv-and-microconsoles

Amazing, im guessing this can be done with most of the journalists that are so apathy towards this big difference.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Why are you making this personal?

If I were holding Spin's opinion AND believed you were being stupid for liking the Kinect I would probably joke about your user name... The Kinect is a fine piece of tech though. Not enough to offset that price discrepancy, but still cool piece of tech.

I applaud them for their efforts but Cinemablend simply isn't big enough to make a dent in this firewall of obfuscation. We need many more websites or a few big ones to take gamers side on this issue. Sony has been really quite on the performance front for a very long time. It is obviously strategic but I look at that as the one mistake they have during the run up to launch. They simply shouldn't have let this slide for so long.

This is my thoughts exactly. More sites need to wise up to this or be less scared and publish something like this. I applaud the author for for writing this article.

 

[andromeduck]

So only $30 more to fall in the same league as the Xbox One by piecing together hardware all individually sold at a profit?

I don't think you made the point you think you made.

And what you said about it being "impossible" to build a gaming PC that performs as well... please tell me you only meant by price. Because if you mean generally... you might as well pick up a new hobby, talking about games on the internet isn't what you're meant to be doing.

yes I mean't at price and the 30 dollar diff is only to match about the same as today's perf right now but as devs get more familiar with the mods with the xb1 like shape, esram, unified memory and the like, the PC equliv won't be able to keep up

and then there's the ps4 at 400 which would need to come in at at least 6-700 to match

 

[Pain]

It's not that the differences in graphics don't matter, it's that the differences in feature set matter more. You can make games and software for the Xbone that can't be done on the PS4 ever, and no pixel fill rate or shader count will make up that difference.

Lmfao. Sure you can but Kinect just doesn't work for games unless they are casual mini or party games.

If you think Kinect is Xbones killer app you're in for a huge surprise. I'm actually surprised you have so much faith in MS.

May I ask what type of games you like?

 

[borghe]

but Sony's First party situation is hardly any better. It's all "dreams and lolipops."

Sony's first party situation is incredible. And Sony has done possibly one of the most incredible things at a console launch. They aren't releasing a tin of games for it!!

In reality, Sony is being incredibly genius about it. They released their big first party guns THIS year (all of them actually) for the system where they will see huge software sales from. I mean why release the big guns for a system that will be LUCKY to have 3M worldwide by the end of the year when it will sell out regardless? Just so they can spend $75M on game development for a title that likely couldn't even sell $2M at full retail?

Then next fall when they are looking at 10M systems and the fall after that looking at like 22M they can release the next Naughty Dog or Santa Monica game and can actually expect 2-3M in sales and actually make some change back on the title.

The Nintendo dilemma is that EAD, HAL and others haven't had titles out for years and then likewise STILL didn't have titles out for Wii U. We figured those studios weren't putting out Wii software because they were working on Wii U software but then didn't have any if that either.

 

[Gadirok]

It's not that the differences in graphics don't matter, it's that the differences in feature set matter more. You can make games and software for the Xbone that can't be done on the PS4 ever, and no pixel fill rate or shader count will make up that difference.

That's like saying the PS4 has games the Xbox One could never make because of the touchpad.

There are workarounds you know. Like a second screen device the Xbox One could do with smartglass. Of course it wouldn't be the same experience and might possibly be worse.

Or in the case of the PS4 with your example, the PS eye can do games like the kinect, just not up to the same degree considering the Kinect has stronger specs.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Seriously, though. Sony's biggest value proposition (other than first party games) to consumers is that they have the most powerful console for the cheapest price. They are letting the press take that away from them. I just don't see why they would let it slip away from them before the console even launches. If power doesn't matter after November 15th, then they are down to the subjective matter of games and only games while the competitor has a leg up on the multimedia side with a online gaming service that is synonymous with online gaming itself. Let this one argument slip away and the balance of power can turn upside down quite quickly.

 

[ThisWreckage]

It's obvious what era of 1up I'm talking about, and regardless, it doesn't really matter what era we're talking about. You're not mad because the media is being unfair in its coverage, you're made because you feel that there's a disproportionate love affair favoring Microsoft at the expense of Sony's media spotlight. Evident by the fact that you're 100% okay with being Shane a definite homer, due to the notion that other people on the show were homers of a different cut. It's a flat out ridiculous and hypocritical position.

No, what is flat out ridiculous is you mentioning earlier in the thread that you're willing to pay a hundred dollars more for a product that doesn't run the software as well and for apps (many of which will also be on other platforms). A fool and his money, after all.

Don't play armchair psychology with me. The gaming media is the biggest embarrassment in media journalism. You would never see this dismissive attitude coming from movie, television, or even music reporters. If you don't see what is wrong with a podcast having to invite a fanboy on to balance things out and how poorly that reflects on the industry I have nothing more to say to you. No, I didn't approve of Shane's antics, but the fact that a fanboy had to be invited on to balance things out (and things were still skewed in Microsoft's favor) speaks volumes about the industry.

 

[Nervous Sausage]

Still choosing Xbox One at launch for the more appealing exclusives. I WISH PS4 had the games I was after because it would be a much easier pill to swallow, considering I would much rather improved specs than Kinect but unfortunately I buy these things for games and I have a PC for multiplatform games. I think the only way to go if you can afford it, is to eventually get both though. No way I'm going to miss out on anything.

 

[andromeduck]

And this is before the consoles are even out.

...you're still not saying what you think you're saying about PC vs. next gen console hardware in 2013, never mind the next couple years. No amount of "coding to the metal" will stave off the price/performance ratio of late 2014/early 2015 PC hardware, when the unsubsidized nature of PC parts will still outpace the value of consoles.

right, because console prices never drop

 

[Glass Shark]

Sorry, just getting caught up. I was watching a movie.

Damage controlling before using the system is somehow okay. Jnccccccc

I'm not damage controlling anything. I plan on getting a PS4 near launch, and I made that decision before the resolution stuff happened. I don't cover Xbox One games, so I have no incentive to put a positive spin on Microsoft. In fact, I've been pretty critical of them over the past few months. Example.

If everyone felt this way, the Xbox would still have always online DRM.

Always-online DRM doesn't bug me. I won't fault you if you don't like it. For a future that I hope is all-digital, the restrictions on used games, selling back games, renting games, etc. doesn't affect me. I understand some people don't like it, but I think some of the ideas MS had about family sharing and whatnot were pretty innovative, and those got scrapped with their DRM.

You're a joke - you demand evidence (links to articles) from other people in this thread (which is readily available in this same thread) yet when asked to explain why DRM is good for consumers you respond with "Lol who cares?".

I didn't demand anything. I calmly asked two questions in this thread. Here and here. Neither were met with specific examples like you claim. Here and here are the answers I got.

When people give you examples, you either say "I see it differently" or "Not a big deal"... So any evidence presented to you, you ignore or try and say it is just their opinion. Well that opinion frames their views on things, so that alone leaves enough of a cause for thinking that the games media isnt pro consumer focused, much at all.

See above about people supposedly answering the questions I asked. And as for opinion, I have mine and you have yours. If yours is different than mine, that's fine.

There are many examples in this thread, including some in response to your posts. Which you've uniformly shrugged off with "well, that's your opinion, man. Not a big deal to me."

I wouldn't really call that technique conducive to a "real discussion".

Once again, see above.

There is a prevailing idea on many gaming forums that all major game journalists and critics are on the take. As someone who is in that industry and has many friends in it as well, I don't see any of the shady stuff that GAF wants to believe. I ask for specific examples of corruption, and I don't get any. If I had a way to prove that it's not happening, then I would. But you can't prove a negative. What can I do? Show you all the not-paychecks I'm getting from Microsoft?

It's particularly frustrating because I really do want to provide honest opinions about games to people who are looking for help on what to buy and play, but to be lumped in with some conspiracy theory about everyone trying to keep Microsoft happy is really disconcerting.

 

[Demon Ice]

$100 shouldn't be the reason why you go with one console over another. It's a ridiculous reason.

I like how you entirely ignored the fact that the PS4 hardware shits all over the XB1 hardware and acted like the $100 price difference was the only difference.

 

[Krusenstern]

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

"When you go out to buy a new piece of technology, most times you're frugal enough with your money to pick up something that meets your needs and offers a nice technological power advantage over the competition. Usually, tech enthusiasts refer to benchmarks before taking the financial plunge. It's imperative to get the most for your hard earned money... right? Right?! Not in the land of the Doritocracy.

Article won't load for me, but I agree 100% with the quoted stuff. Gaming press is nothing more but an extendet marketing tool for publishers and platform holders. The so called journalists have their free speech castrated by NDAs and play ball to keep those companies happy. Instead of informing the consumer, the ones who actually buy all this stuff and make the companies successful, they write apologetic garbage articles and let everyone else in the dark.

 

[Glass Shark]

Do you really think people are accusing journalists of being directly paid off?

There are plenty of people who actually believe that critics or publications are paid to give good scores, yes. The accusation by Cinemablend and others in this topic that journalists are playing nice with Microsoft because of ad revenue is really no better.

 

[Ateron]

If I'm buying a console because of multiplats, there's zero reason to own an xbox.

If you're hardcore and want the best possible experience on console, you get a ps4.

If you're casual you're swayed by the price. Doesn't matter how much "value" the kinect brings or not. A more casual player will look at both price tags and easily make a decision.

If you care a lot about MS's exclusives, then I won't argue with anyone, can totally understand that.

But those gaming sites shrugging off a performance deficiency as negligeable and a higher price tag as "better value" are really reaching. The gaming press should be better than this. It was MS's fault, not Sony's. They had their priorities elsewhere and now have to live with that. Or *should* if they were impartial and treated them the same way ps3 was, back in the day.

The tables apparently turned, but many of them are way too confortable and don't want the status quo to change. The truth will be out in a few weeks, and no shitty compressed youtube video will be able to hide it for long.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I like how you entirely ignored the fact that the PS4 hardware shits all over the XB1 hardware and acted like the $100 price difference was the only difference.

This is exactly the problem with the people downplaying things. Instead of looking at the whole picture they focus on individual parts and say well that isn't good enough reason to purchase one over the other and I would be inclined to agree. However, start adding up all these individual parts and a clearer picture begins to form about which offers a better value for your dollar. PS4 is cheaper, runs games better, has better looking games, has a large stable of first party talent that hasn't even shown half their hand yet, has a consistent release of games already shaping up post launch, and has a stronger indie and downloadable games presence. All of those advantages could justifiably be played down if looked at singularly ("I'm not buying a next gen console for The Witness which I can play on my PC, I am buying it for Titanfall" what?) , but that is not how it works.

 

[Glass Shark]

Jeff Gerstmann.

What happened to that guy, didn't he used to write for Gamespot or something...?

For many people, this single instance that occurred years ago is enough to assume deep-rooted corruption in the entire industry. Personally, I can't make that leap. Especially knowing as many writers and editors as I do.

 

[Glass Shark]

Either way, you've sidestepped my point.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. Can you clarify your point, because I'd really like to address it directly.

 

[SolidSnakex]

There is a prevailing idea on many gaming forums that all major game journalists and critics are on the take. As someone who is in that industry and has many friends in it as well, I don't see any of the shady stuff that GAF wants to believe. I ask for specific examples of corruption, and I don't get any. If I had a way to prove that it's not happening, then I would. But you can't prove a negative. What can I do? Show you all the not-paychecks I'm getting from Microsoft?

Then let's try this again

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88379288&postcount=506
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88388222&postcount=590

I don't think many (or any?) people here are saying that the press are paid off. They're trying to provide you with examples of shit that the press are saying about this situation that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They either have very little knowledge of the technical side of things or they're just flatout lying to their readers.

 

[Ateron]

There are plenty of people who actually believe that critics or publications are paid to give good scores, yes. The accusation by Cinemablend and others in this topic that journalists are playing nice with Microsoft because of ad revenue is really no better.

Depends on what kind of pay you're talking about. I don't believe that certain publishers deliver brown envelopes to certain publications. But I do believe that they receive incentives to be positive in their reviews/previews etc, by giving them exclusive hands on their games, and such.

For instance the gtaV exclusive preview. The game is fantastic (even though I don't think it's 11/10). But by the way the guy was gushing all over it in the piece, you could easily tell what score the game was gonna get in a few weeks. They would never give them full permission to talk about the flaws in the game (in my case I was looking for impressions on the framerate, which was better than 4 but still wobbly and deserved a mention).

A gaming journalist faced with an exclusive of that magnitude would never say no. They know there are certain topics they can only gloss over. Exclusive coverage doesn't directly involve money, but those hundreds of thousands of clicks sure come in handy.

And what can a big gaming site do? Say no to their demands and miss out on early copies? They would only be able to get their reviews a day or two after the game's released. Most of the clicks would be gone by then. I don't see things getting better anytime soon.

 

[pinny]

There are plenty of people who actually believe that critics or publications are paid to give good scores, yes.

Game journalists aren't paid to give good scores, but they are in bed with the publishers and want to keep it that way, since otherwise they won't get exclusive screenshots/videos/unveilings/whatever and they lose hits. Pretty simple.

What do you think would have happened if for example IGN or Gamestop would have trashed a game like Skyrim? Do you think Bethesda would still send them exclusive material of their next game?