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[NoirVisage]

If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.

Sure, there's plenty of nuance to the conversation, just as there was last gen..it just seems to me you and other journo's are having a hard time grasping it, especially if there's a collective "but" to every cut and dry situation, that wasn't there last gen.

And you're saying its wrong to conclude a more powerful console would mean better looking games every time?..even if you just mean multiplats, you think long and hard about what you just admitted.

And don't patronize me, I never said the tag system failing miserably in that instance is a result of fanboy nonsense, I, like many others think it was about hits, and bad ps4 news brings hits. This IS kotaku we're talking about

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, I don't get that why concluding that the machine that is more powerful and easier to develop for will get better looking multiplatform games is wrong.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You are paying 2 times as much per pixel to play on Xbox One. (100% more)

--

Performance per dollar - that is a huge fucking gap. Websites downplaying JUST the resolution differences are doing a disservice for consumers.

And the N64 is twice the fun as the 32-bit systems, right? Come on, dollar per pixel, really? Not saying the performance difference isn't relevant, and I agree with the article in the OP, but that's getting ridiculous here.

There's nothing wrong with talking about specifics. If we never went into specifics there wouldn't be much to discuss now would there? However, going so far as to do mathematical calculations to figure the price per pixel is utterly ridiculous.

I honestly cannot even fathom your train of thought in your second point. What is my "logic" here that I supposedly stated before?

And as I said before, there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing graphics. However, when someone goes so far as to say that something so completely dumbfounded like the "price-per-pixel" of a game console is actually important, that's where I draw the line.

Yeah, agreed completely.

Funny how people are falling for this major piece of baseless flamebait.

It's cinemablend. Flamebait and trash is all they write, no matter what side it favors (it will favor what brings them the most hits).

This is probably true (minus the "baseless" part). However, it's not mutually exclusive with the article being factually accurate. Flamebait articles are not inherently wrong. You might not care for the tone, but what about the contents?

This article is awful. If you're going to go into the price differences and stuff like resolution and attempting to compare their value proposition by dollar, include key features like the Kinect packed into it. That's pretty crucial. Otherwise you come across as a guy with an agenda.

lol, no one cares about the Kinect.
If the Xbone had tons of nice exclusives the PS4 didn't, it might be worth the extra $100 and weaker graphics for sure. Like the article said, the PS2 won the war despite being less powerful than its competitors. You could certainly use the console's game library as argument for its extra $100. But the Kinect? Does anyone actually a) really care about it and b) is happy that it's included and mandatory? Come on.

http://kotaku.com/tag/next-gen

Boom.

Conspiracy! Subliminal messaging! Moneyhats! Corruption!

Oh no, wait. Its the other one. http://www.halodestiny.net/images/news/destiny_fucking_nothing.gif

I agree it's a minor quibble by itself, but these hints of bias add up over time, and frankly there's no excuse when they do have more appropriate tags. It might not even be intentional bias from their end, but it's certainly eye-rolling anyway.

 

[bigboss370]

that thread was locked because the rumours were unsourced bullshit.

as I said in it, when ONE PS4 at an event crashed, it created a fairly long discussion here. if the PS4 had a 30% failure rate, we'd be hearing of regular problems at trade shows and store demos, etc.

funny thing is that one ps4 didn't even crash.

 

[NoirVisage]

QFT

Also, expanding on this a little bit. Remember last year, during E3 2012, when big gaming sites were reporting that there might be an ever-so-small chance that either Sony, Microsoft, or both, could reveal crumbs about their next console projects? That usually they wouldn't tip their hats that early, but one or both of them might desire to create some early buzz by giving us a peak at the future?

E3 came and went, and that didn't happen. I specifically remember one big site, I honestly forget who, had a reporter on the ground at E3 talking with a Sony exec and asked them point blank, "So, do you have any information to share with us regarding the Orbis project?" Of course, they smiled, almost winked, and replied that they did not comment on rumors or speculation, etc.

Now, I remember the disappointment that a lot of gaming sites expressed that neither Orbis or Durango made any type of teased appearance at E3. The reason for this disappointment was explained to be that the current generation of consoles were already long in the tooth, we were overdue for flesh blood on the hardware side, that we were tired of sub-HD resolutions, poor framerates, frame drops, lowered effects, etc. Clearly, it was time (actually, past the time) for new hardware.

Now the new hardware gets shown, new games are shown, new IPs are here, and we're two and three weeks out from release of the next generation. One console is clearly more representative of next generation graphics than the other, at the very least for the start of their lifespan. One console can run new, fresh games at 1080p natively, the other is struggling to keep the same resolution at the same framerate with the same level of effects. And all of a sudden, the narrative is that it really doesn't matter, people won't notice anyway, you shouldn't really buy any new consoles until well after launch, etc.

I think all people are asking for is some consistency in the narrative. Just like when one site in particular makes a huge deal about Black Ops 2 running at a slightly higher resolution on one console than the other, and how that is like "wiping the grease off of the lens", and then goes one to say that one game running double the amount of resolution over the other is "not a big deal" and "not noticeable" a year later. What we are asking for is WHY the narrative changed. If it is indeed your position that one was clearly a bigger deal and one was not, tell us why intelligently. Not "the loser pixel counters with magnifying glasses are all circle jerking over nothing". Frankly that's dismissive horseshit.

Well presented examples, the dismissive attitude is par for the course at this point. We saw it through the whole DRM fiasco, where everyone but the press saw something wrong taking place..in the end, proximity is an issue. Exclusives, "gifts" and reveal events. I think games journalists are convinced they're a part of the "industry" they report on, and see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Sean*O]

Yeah, I don't get that why concluding that the machine that is more powerful and easier to develop for will get better looking multiplatform games is wrong.

Me either?? It's pretty obvious what it will mean going forward, unless you buy into MS PR's perpetual "wait and see what we can do" line.

I get that commercial reporting can be about offending as few readers as possible and I think somehow the xbox demographic is still looked at as the more valuable one, though that is surely going to change this generation.

 

[NervousXtian]

You're saying a lot of nothing in your post and are showing you really don't get the issue, all last gen, the pixel counting between consoles, even before they dropped, was all the rage, sites went out of their way to point out the most trivial of inconsitencies, in a few cases those inconsistencies were manufactured by the sites..this gen, the gap is clear and the comparisons even more important..except they're not, the mantras of "the difference is no big deal" is safe, where as last gen they weren't afraid to point an accusitory finger at the weaker, reminding us of price points and value, its suddenly no big deal, even the sole defender of journo's in this thread has taken up the "no big deal" mantra in his kotaku article ( and don't get me started on "pick your battles"..its the same battle.) which pretty much lumps him in with the very journalists we've grown tired of.

A mantra and stance which I feel is a safe and cowardly one to take up considering what they imagine they'll lose out on if they tell it like it is without sugar coating a silver lining for the xboxone. Every.single.time.

I think for the most part outside of DF and forum threads the comparison between 360 v PS3 games amounted to nothing more than clicks and forum posts.

Outside of outliers like Skyrim for PS3, they really didn't amount to jack shit when playing the games.

The whole resolution wars (ie: Console Wars Next Gen v2) is just a bunch of noise because people don't have the consoles in their hands to play the game. Someone saying the Xbone version of a Next Gen game visually isn't that bad compared to PS4 doesn't mean to say the PS4 isn't the superior version graphically.. usually it's noted.

Is the Xbone an upgrade visually from the 360.. fuck yes it is. Will most 3rd party games be visually upgraded on PS4.. yes.

Does that mean the games will suck on the Xbone when you know, you actually do what you're supposed to do with games... you know play them?

It's funny in this time of a indie game revolution, where graphics are probably the least important thing and game play and innovation are king that we have these mega threads where it's all about resolution, resolution, resolution.

I can't remember where I played a game just for the graphics. Well, Deal Esther.. but I kept thinking something would happen. It was also short.

Yeah, I don't get that why concluding that the machine that is more powerful and easier to develop for will get better looking multiplatform games is wrong.

That's probably a correct assumption to make, you are still speculating about games that haven't been released in the future.

Kind of a weird sticking point for someone to draw a line in the sand and want every site to declare a generation winner before the generation even started.

There's a lot to play out, and in the end I think we'll hear about the differences of each and every multi-platform release as they come out.

Wanting that all right now is just silly.

 

[Sean*O]

And the N64 is twice the fun as the 32-bit systems, right? Come on, dollar per pixel, really? Not saying the performance difference isn't relevant, and I agree with the article in the OP, but that's getting ridiculous here.

Gotta love this dismissive crap.. It's like come on dorks price for performance doesn't matter. It's almost Infuriating. Then you equate something measurable and quantifiable with a subjective term like "fun".

You must have been one of the cool kids right.

 

[lazydom]

The major reason great articles get short threads is because there's often not much more to do but go and read the article? After the first six or seven instances of 'good article', 'thanks for posting this', 'another great piece by Jason' there's not much left to do but throw your own compliment on the pile, and after a while you start feeling like a berk if you do that.


So hey, don't get frustrated, as long as the article gets the readers in it's all good.

This is exactly how I feel. A poor or contentious article often creates far more of an active discussion than a well written piece.

While it's good to see Jason and kotaku investigating the larger picture regarding the power gap between next gen consoles and therefore delaying on reporting, I severely doubt this is the case with other games journalists. This begs the question why is this subject being ignored, apart fron flamebait articles like the OP.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Gotta love this dismissive crap.. It's like come on dorks price for performance doesn't matter. It's almost Infuriating. Then you equate something measurable and quantifiable with a subjective term like "fun".

It's like you... didn't even read the last sentence of the bit you were quoting at all?

You must have been one of the cool kids right.

No idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[Apoc87]

 

[Skeff]

If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.

If your interested in the long term comparisons of multi platform titles on PS4 and XB1, I can tell you that every PS4 multi platform title will be better than the XB1 version, the only games that will not be better on PS4 will be games that are smaller scale such as indie games or Sports titles and even then the PS4 will have less frame dips than the XB1. The reasons for this are Numerous:

>40% more GPU processing power.
>90% more Pixel Fillrate.
>40% more Texel Fillrate.
More GPGPU enhancements.
Unified Memory.
Likely a higher effective Memory bandwidth by about 20%
Easier to Develop for.

It's really as simple as that, I would expect the gap to be reduced to 1080p vs. 900p gradually by Holiday 2014 and to last for the entire generation.

There should never be the case for the XB1 version to be better than the PS4 version, this isn't like last generation where developers struggled with the Cell but occasionally they were able to use it enough to offset the Power differences in the GPU(GTAV). There is no Blu-ray vs. DVD for less compressed cutscenes(ff13).

But saying that there is no split memory pool difference for game breakers such as Skyrim, it will be the PS4 having consistently the Better Multiplatform titles and the difference between them will be quite consistent compared to ast generations inconsistencies.

If you really want to report on if these differences will be common you should try and find out more about AC4 and NFS, as these are the other 2 launch titles which will likely have an obvious difference between the multiplatform versions. Games such as Fifa/Madden are very small scale games and simply don't push either piece of hardware.

 

[poisonelf]

If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.

There's writing opinion pieces, and then there's reporting facts relevant to a publications theme and focus, and its readers' interests.

I don't think anyone is asking of the press to try and produce prophecies about who will 'win', how much the power gap will matter exactly, and who will have the best games after 5 years.

Your post is a bit patronizing, as if that's what people are asking for.

The issue is the extreme downplaying of a significant power difference between two new generation consoles, by publications that pretty much exist to inform about such differences, research them, and detail them without constantly adding commentary like "but it's really not important, you need a magnifying glass, only pixel-counting fanboys will care), etc, etc.

Especially when it seemed to matter during the previous generation, and when much smaller gaps in resolution seemed to draw attention, while now suddenly 720p is "essentially the same" as 1080p if you're not a "pixel counter". Really?

I mean for fuck's sake even Ars did it which a site existing to point out the slightest pixel of a difference between gadgets or displays.

Shouldn't consumers be warned by a site they grace with their clicks that the more expensive console is significantly less powerful and its manufacturer is trying to obscure the fact? Shouldn't the differences be pointed out at least as much as they did during the previous gen and let consumers decide for themselves if lower resolution, less stable frame rate, lack of AA, etc, is as unimportant as some journalists seems to feel?

By the way, I'm obviously not focusing on any specific articles of yours here, I'm talking about the situation with the press that the article in the OP mentions in general. Also, very pleasant to see such articles that actually mention this issue of ridiculous favoritism many sites are so glaringly displaying.

 

[unbias]

If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.

I dunno... We are not dealing with something like the cell processor. These are computers, and with computers the better specs win. What we have right now is that the PS4 is a more powerful system and 2 big titles look better on the PS4. Anything that tries to downplay the differences is guessing that it wont continue. At this point if we are talking about performance/looks, outside of aesthetics we have no reason to believe games will look "better" on the xbox with a neutral game.

What could be said is, "now while the PS4 has the better performance/graphics potential, that doesnt translate into a better aesthetically looking game". Trying to just compare apples to apples at this point, and trying to imply that the Xbox one might have the better looking games is creating a defense for a system that has shown nothing to have this perception.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

WHY

 

[disastermouse]

Good morning.

After sleeping on this, I realized that you guys have made a lot of great points that I didn't take to heart because I was letting my emotions get in the way of the real issue. I also think that you're right to feel that your interests are not being served as well as they could be.

After taking emotion out of it and approaching the resolution issue critically, I started doing some research and testing of my own. I'm... a bit surprised about some of the ways this has been reported. I've clearly been shortsighted in the way I approached this, and it seems others have too.

All of that is to say that I've got something in the works that you all may be interested in. I'll post it here later today.

This was a pleasantly surprising post to read. People on the internet (or real life) rarely acknowledge their own flaws. Major kudos to you (and not just because I agree with you)!

 

[Ateron]

Yeah, I think a fine example of investigative journalism would be trying to find out more details about ACIV or NFS. See how they stack up with the two we already know (BF4 and CoD, which doesn't even seem to be a demanding game).

I don't care about opinion pieces on this matter. What I expect from a journalist is information and facts. Let me decide on what's important or not.

 

[Chinner]

who is joshrholloway again?

 

[neither]

Read the article and it was a good read.
We need more outlets calling out the gaming media or else things will never change.

And as some have said here, people are quick to point out the graphical differences with everything, but when it comes down to this upcoming gen they down play the differences. Like okaaaay. Don't be hypocritical.

 

[disastermouse]

Well, you hit the nail on the head. Most of the big gaming sites are being exactly what Rolling Stone, ESPN and TMZ are rolled into one.

They are entertainment sites, they provide entertainment and write about entertainment.

What people are so holding against the gaming media is pretty much par for the course for all industries. ESPN these days is pretty much all opinion pieces, even Sportscenter. It's pretty much opinion, gossip and human interest pieces. The actual scores are secondary for the most part. I guess they figure you can look those up online or check the bar at the bottom for updates.

What it boils down to in this thread is people pretty much mad that major game media has came out and said Xbox One sucks balls, don't buy it, it's shit and the PS4 is vastly superior.

It's pretty much people wanting to promote the console wars forum mentality to journalism.

Yet, there's tons of articles related to how the PS4 is the stronger system, and it's not like that's not out there.

So much anger up in here, and that dude's post to Schier.. that's outright contempt for no reason for a guy who at least comes to GAF and joins the conversation and provides insight.

Except that there's a way to state that the Xbox One is a legitimate next-gen console without downplaying the obvious power differences.

Also, Schier isn't 'joining the conversation' or 'providing insight'. Tell me how he was doing either when he said (paraphrasing) "We don't care if you're angry because our clicks are up."

 

[Cmerrill]

who is joshrholloway again?

.

 

[No Love]

::jerkoff hand motion::

That logic makes no sense. "If Microsoft doesn't meet a certain sales quota, us games journalists are sure in trouble. Jeepers! Better put my integrity on the line to help them move a couple more units with a piece that says maybe the resolution isn't that big of a deal! That'll do it!"

LMAO at 'integrity' in gaming journalism. What a joke. Most of these hacks are so paid off it's not even funny. What do you think happens when you give a bunch of geeks a bunch of free geek shit? They're gonna kiss your ass.

 

[unbias]

Except that there's a way to state that the Xbox One is a legitimate next-gen console without downplaying the obvious power differences.

Beyond that the game industry isn't like sports or TMZ... They are closer to the tech industry. Games are a product much like tech(and game consoles ARE tech) so treating games unlike tech just comes across as wanting a narrative that helps the industry vs the consumer.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Maybe I wasn't clear. "Your" referred to the person I was addressing, not readers as a whole. If our readers didn't trust us, they wouldn't read our site. Our traffic is at an all-time high because we have been breaking the type of news and running the type of stories that no other website runs, and if we hadn't earned our readers' trust, they wouldn't be reading us.

I've read and participated in a number of threads like this. I take them a lot more seriously they're talking about real issues, and specific people, instead of ridiculous "game journalism is corrupt!" articles like the one on Cinema Blend. There are reporters currently trying to hash out just what the PS4's power advantage will mean long term for these consoles - a question far more important than COD resolutions - and meanwhile, some of you read and circlejerk over articles like this, articles written like forum posts chock full of unfounded accusations and nonsensical console war BS.

Surely you must understand how frustrating it is for reporters who work 10-12 hours a day to try to bring you guys great work only to see 20-page threads about how much their field sucks. Meanwhile, threads about great articles cap at 2, 3, 4 pages on GAF. Do you really not see how you're contributing to the problem there?

Let me put the situation another way: if a website were to publish a story interviewing developers about the long-term differences between PS4 or Xbox One, do you think it'd be on Cinema Blend? It certainly would not. It'd be on Edge, Eurogamer, Kotaku... one of the websites that has proven capable of actual investigation. Yet those are the websites you're trashing.

Please stop generalizing. Most people on gaf trash what deserves to be trashed and praise what deserves to be praised. Instead of being so defensive maybe you should listen to what some of us are concerned about

Except that there's a way to state that the Xbox One is a legitimate next-gen console without downplaying the obvious power differences.

Also, Schier isn't 'joining the conversation' or 'providing insight'. Tell me how he was doing either when he said (paraphrasing) "We don't care if you're angry because our clicks are up."

That's exactly it

 

[beast786]

who is joshrholloway again?

 

[disastermouse]

Beyond that the game industry isn't like sports or TMZ... They are closer to the tech industry. Games are a product much like tech(and game consoles ARE tech) so treating unlike just comes across as wanting a narrative that helps the industry vs the consumer.

I didn't say they were like tech or TMZ or even talk about them. I think you meant to reply to someone else.

 

[Moneal]

I didn't say they were like tech or TMZ or even talk about them. I think you meant to reply to someone else.

i think they were just adding a comment about the post you quoted.

 

[unbias]

I didn't say they were like tech or TMZ or even talk about them. I think you meant to reply to someone else.

I was adding to what you were saying in regards to what NervousXtian said about games media.

 

[DBT85]

My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

Thank you.

 

[jschreier]

Sure, there's plenty of nuance to the conversation, just as there was last gen..it just seems to me you and other journo's are having a hard time grasping it, especially if there's a collective "but" to every cut and dry situation, that wasn't there last gen.

And you're saying its wrong to conclude a more powerful console would mean better looking games every time?..even if you just mean multiplats, you think long and hard about what you just admitted.

And don't patronize me, I never said the tag system failing miserably in that instance is a result of fanboy nonsense, I, like many others think it was about hits, and bad ps4 news brings hits. This IS kotaku we're talking about

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

 

[disastermouse]

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

You avoid being reactionary now but were you as 'even-handed' back when Sony was getting inferior multi platform titles? That's the issue here.

 

[Jomjom]

If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.

As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.

Nobody reasonable here is asking you or anyone else in the gaming press to make a definitive conclusion based on the differences between two games. But how about not downplaying or outright dismissing the differences between the xbo and ps4 of just those two games.

It is an objective fact now that the ps4 versions of just those two games have higher framerates and resolution. Presenting those in an unbiased manner without excess editorializing should not be too much to ask from the gaming press.

Even saying something like "hey if you are going to be an xbo owner rest assured that the xbo versions will be perfectly playable and fun" is totally fine. But telling people that virtually no one will be able to tell a difference is not.

 

[HolyBaikal]

The name "Doritocracy" is amusing.

But it is clear that Microsoft spent lots of money on damage control. In cases where gamers themselves were decrying everything wrong with the XBOX One. There were a lot of videos from industry people trying to defend the system.

You had people making videos talking about how "bad console wars are". By which they meant, if you talk badly of the XBOX One and its issues, you're a console warrior. Trying to pressure people into not spreading bad information about the XBOX One.

And there was also a whole lot of thing about "waiting for E3". As if a showing for any amount of amazing exclusive games could have possibly excused or justified an always on DRM system.

And most sites repeated that the XBOX was on equal footing to the PlayStation when that obviously wasn't true for many very good reasons. Things have gotten better for the XBOX, they dropped the issues with needing and internet connection and blocking used games. But it still has a few negative issues going for it. And certainly will have a lasting negative PR.

I can understand Microsoft wanting to minimize PR damaging by paying off companies to write good things about their system. But it is awfully transparent. And would be money better spent trying to make the system something that customers want.

 

[jschreier]

Nobody reasonable here is asking you or anyone else in the gaming press to make a definitive conclusion based on the differences between two games. But how about not downplaying or outright dismissing the differences between the xbo and ps4 of just those two games.

It is an objective fact now that the ps4 versions of just those two games have higher framerates and resolution. Presenting those in an unbiased manner without excess editorializing should not be too much to ask from the gaming press.

Even saying something like "hey if you are going to be an xbo owner rest assured that the xbo versions will be perfectly playable and fun" is totally fine. But telling people that virtually no one will be able to tell a difference is not.

You mean like we did here? http://kotaku.com/activision-confirms-call-of-duty-ghosts-at-lower-resol-1455181795

 

[Jomjom]

You mean like we did here? http://kotaku.com/activision-confirms-call-of-duty-ghosts-at-lower-resol-1455181795

I'm sorry I was unclear I didn't mean you specifically. Obviously most people in this thread are unsatisfied with the larger picture here where a large majority of the press is not doing what you guys at kotaku have done.

Most outlets have either downplayed the difference in their version of your article or quickly followed up with another article entirely about downplaying the differences.

Also to be fair the article you linked made sure to link to Totilo's editorial which pretty much downplay the differences again.

 

[Vice]

Beyond that the game industry isn't like sports or TMZ... They are closer to the tech industry. Games are a product much like tech(and game consoles ARE tech) so treating games unlike tech just comes across as wanting a narrative that helps the industry vs the consumer.

They're entertainment products. Like sports and movies their are stories about the product side; new rules, change in manufacturers, new formats, etc. The majority of interest in the medium is games which are entertaining on a purely subjective level, like film or sports.

 

[Kosma]

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

How about you di some journalism and see which console offers better quality multiplat games at launch.

How is AC4 looking? NFS?

People would like to know before they spend 500 bucks

 

[Sword Of Doom]

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

Everything you're saying is true and it's perfectly understandable but you're still not addressing the issue which is that whatever the power gap may be, the current 720p situation with the XB1 should be a concern. Now how it will pan out we have to wait and see. The problem I have is games journalist down right saying it doesn't matter and that people shouldn't be concerned. That's what I have an issue with.

 

[plagiarize]

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

'significant' is an opinion. we heard from a lot of game designers last gen that there was no significant differences between the PS3 and 360 versions before release, and then, well the differences were significant. framerate and resolution, for me, are both significant.

and significant how? in terms of sales figures, or in terms of our experience with the games? I can see cases where a dev might not think the differences are significant in terms of the former, but where they are significant in terms of the latter.

I know you have sources that feel that way, but you haven't been able to get them to explain what they mean, or why they feel that way. We had that wonderful bit in Stephen's article where he said 'Despite acknowledging that the PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for, some sources indicate that they don't expect this to lead to many differences between the two systems down the line.'

As I said last night, that just isn't the kind of thing you report without following up with further questions. The expectations of those sources do not line up with what we know... so do they know something we don't? Can they elucidate on it?

Hopefully you can see what I mean.

Last time we talked about certain positions on a devs team not necessarily being the best judge of this, we actually had a game director (I'm really sorry that I cannot remember who) chime in. He admitted that he'd said similar things and been wrong. He explained why it happened that people in high level positions aren't looking at the finer details, and are more focused on if the difference between platforms break any elements of the game design than which is higher resolution or which has nicer lighting effects.

Obviously you can't reveal your sources, but without me knowing how close they are to working on the engines on both systems, given the misleading noise we got from developers last gen, it's hard for me to take such things on blind faith.

I mean, I'm sure you've been told what you say you've been told, but there is clearly a missing piece of the puzzle, that at the very least I'd like acknowledged, even if you can't yet provide any illumination to the matter.

 

[NervousXtian]

Except that there's a way to state that the Xbox One is a legitimate next-gen console without downplaying the obvious power differences.

Also, Schier isn't 'joining the conversation' or 'providing insight'. Tell me how he was doing either when he said (paraphrasing) "We don't care if you're angry because our clicks are up."

Yeah, you paraphrased one simple line.

Just because you think he's full of shit doesn't mean he hasn't joined the conversation. He's provided reasons for everything he's said and how he feels about the issue.

It seems nothing of short of "PS4 is superior in every way, don't buy a Xbox One because it sucks" isn't good enough. That's forum console war discussion, and really isn't a fair thing to say long term. Both will stand on their own, and both consoles do things in a slightly different manner. The PS4 has superior hardware, yes. What media outlet is saying that it doesn't?

Schreier says some devs don't think it'll be a major issue long term. Of course they could be wrong.

What purpose does declaring a victor to console wars before launch really serve other than fanboy posturing?

If you think the PS4 is the console for you.. buy it. Why do you need some media site or forum members to provide confirmation of your decision?

Games are what matters, in the long term that's what will decide the winner long term.

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

Just so you know, despite the attacks on you.. I'm glad you come to GAF and join in. I'm sure it's frustrating to come into what can sometimes be a hostile environment, but just so you know at least I appreciate that you are willing to do it.

 

[disastermouse]

You mean like we did here? http://kotaku.com/activision-confirms-call-of-duty-ghosts-at-lower-resol-1455181795

That piece was pretty bad. It sets up a false equivalency based on ??? "Sure, there's a power difference but we don't know if that's what's making the difference. You know, because it might be that the Xbox One has insufficient pixie dust developer magic applied."

It fails to acknowledge that although Xbox Developer tools may get better, Sony dev tools and dev proficiency isn't exactly going to stand still either. Also, I don't remember this sort of equivocation when the press was covering the PS3/Xbox 360 performance gaps. No one said 'developers may grasp the PS3 architecture and close the gap' until ND started flexing its muscles.

 

[cripterion]

lol, no one cares about the Kinect.

I do. Boom

 

[NoirVisage]

All bad news brings hits. People are not more interested in bad PS4 news than they are in bad Xbox One news. Sorry to burst your bubble. (It may amuse you to know that we are constantly accused of being anti-Microsoft.)

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

It's tempting to get sucked into the "Sony's making a console for gamers and Microsoft isn't" narrative, and maybe it's true! My job is still to avoid being reactionary. Making conclusions about the next five years in gaming because of a few launch games would be irresponsible.

And with that any legs you had to stand on turned to sand. I'm going to say flat out you don't know your audience, because whatever bubble you think I'm living in, they're within that same bubble.

Semi unrelated, and maybe a bit of useless trivia..some people have an inherent bias toward calling bs when someone refers to potentially important information as merely "stuff", that's such a nebulous way to refer to something,and is usually used when that something may not exist.

 

[Moneal]

They're entertainment products. Like sports and movies their are stories about the product side; new rules, change in manufacturers, new formats, etc. The majority of interest in the medium is games which are entertaining on a purely subjective level, like film or sports.

sports media is in a different realm than consumer entertainment media. the sports media, espn and the like, are not there to present a product for you to buy. you don't take their opinions and use them to buy products. they are presenting opinions for you to consume. they are selling themselves.

TMZ is selling stories, again not products. TMZ report on the celebs and what is going on with them. People that view their site and take in there opinions are not being swayed to buy products based on their opinions.

THe gaming media is in a different place than either TMZ or the sports media. the gaming media's opinions are about products and those opinions are ment to help inform people and help them with purchasing decisions.

 

[DragonSworne]

I wouldn't be surprised if MS is paying for these journalist pieces.

Afterall, they paid third parties not to mention PS4 version of games at E3.

confiemed micresft actively attemptbuyinr PS44FOUR nonmetnions. IF y dont explifitly here 3rdparty say “OUR GAME IS EXCLUSIVE FOR XBONE’ confdinetly assuem Ps4 version is avabilelbe behind scenes. #truthfact

 

[Kosma]

Its very odd that the press thats downplaying the differences is from the US and UK, the only regions where the Xbox brand has traction.

The non english speaking press hasnt been downplaying the differences at all as far as Ive observed.

 

[AlphaDump]

Here it is:

Looking at some older Face-Offs just for kicks, this caught my eye:



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-face-off

So, going between 880x720 and 832x624 is "a world away" and "like wiping away the grease from a lens." If any gaming press is reading this thread, it's stuff like this that makes these horrible arguments of 1080p and 720p being indistinguishable completely laughable and idiotic.

I think this highlights the issue perfectly.

now the downplaying and blatant write offs of what was a crucial factor in deciding your console purchase this past gen. Now suddenly it doesnt matter. Red flags everywhere.

 

[disastermouse]

Yeah, you paraphrased one simple line.

Just because you think he's full of shit doesn't mean he hasn't joined the conversation. He's provided reasons for everything he's said and how he feels about the issue.

It seems nothing of short of "PS4 is superior in every way, don't buy a Xbox One because it sucks" isn't good enough. That's forum console war discussion, and really isn't a fair thing to say long term. Both will stand on their own, and both consoles do things in a slightly different manner. The PS4 has superior hardware, yes. What media outlet is saying that it doesn't?

Schreier says some devs don't think it'll be a major issue long term. Of course they could be wrong.

What purpose does declaring a victor to console wars before launch really serve other than fanboy posturing?

If you think the PS4 is the console for you.. buy it. Why do you need some media site or forum members to provide confirmation of your decision?

Games are what matters, in the long term that's what will decide the winner long term.



Just so you know, despite the attacks on you.. I'm glad you come to GAF and join in. I'm sure it's frustrating to come into what can sometimes be a hostile environment, but just so you know at least I appreciate that you are willing to do it.

First off - I WANT the Xbone to be better so I can buy it without feeling like a patsy. I want to experience Project Spark and see what all the excitement is about Titanfall. I'd feel better about it if the actual problems were being accurately reported and those problems would put accurate marketing pressure to bear on the price and features of the Xbox One - and this pressure can only come to bear with accurate reporting.

Why isn't Wii U reporting (the reporting - not the system) receiving the same hate? Because the flaws of the Wii U are openly reported! I will likely buy a Wii U soon knowing what the trade-offs are because with accurate reporting I feel armed with actual facts instead of spin.

 

[jschreier]

Everything you're saying is true and it's perfectly understandable but you're still not addressing the issue which is that whatever the power gap may be, the current 720p situation with the XB1 should be a concern. Now how it will pan out we have to wait and see. The problem I have is games journalist down right saying it doesn't matter and that people shouldn't be concerned. That's what I have an issue with.

I've said this before on NeoGAF, but I think the big question is, why does that resolution difference exist? If the answer is "because the Xbox can't hit that," that's a huge concern. If the answer is that Infinity Ward got their devtools late, then that's significantly less of a concern. I'm not going to tell you not to care about resolution differences, but I'm much more interested in the big picture. I have no plans to buy either console at launch, anyway. (When people ask me what system they should buy this fall, I tell them 3DS.)

 

[Jomjom]

You mean like we did here? http://kotaku.com/activision-confirms-call-of-duty-ghosts-at-lower-resol-1455181795

If this article's purpose is to report the news then just do that.

I don't see news broadcasters reporting on Obama Care adding a little aside like "hey watch our editorial about why Obama Care is a total POS" in the same breath that they use to report the news.