No problem. Certain news stories were written in a way that made that fact less than obvious.
Cinemablend calls out gaming press, accuses them of living in a Doritocracy
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
- Start date
No problem. Certain news stories were written in a way that made that fact less than obvious.
Firstly, before the actual reply, I'd like to say how much I appreciate that you do bother posting here. It would be easier not to and, undoubtedly, you catch a lot more flack than is probably deserved - in part due to people like me.
In any case, there are two primary reasons this article is receiving attention. One is that this is the internet and the article is controversial, the other is that it is a (somewhat) major site talking about something a lot of us have been feeling when we've read, and listened to the output of "Edge, Eurogamer, Kotaku...".
You can dismiss the idea that game journalism is corrupt with one wave of the hand - but in your heart of hearts do you really believe that the way game journalism tends to work is conducive to consumers being properly informed? I don't, not even remotely, and the last few weeks have proven that beyond doubt. People want information which will help them make a major purchasing decision, and one of the things which they should be being told is the truth about power. Instead, many journalists seem to be trying to cover up that an issue even exists. Maybe that's because they want to appear balanced, maybe it's because they are biased towards the Xbox One, maybe that's because they're just not sure yet and they don't want to knee-jerk and get it wrong. Regardless, I feel like they're not giving us the full picture and I feel like they're holding back on what they really think.
Are some people going way over the top here? Of course. Is game journalism fine? Hell no.
FranXico
Member
You do have a point, as one does have to click and read the story to see this:
Starting at this paragraph, they explain how the issue applies to both consoles.
Maybe there's a bit of clickbaiting going on there? But it's hardly a huge scandal anyway.
In any case, the "next-gen" tag would have been more appropriate.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
It matters, but it's not the only thing people care about. For a lot of people there are more important things such as which games are on which system. His analogy is perfectly appropriate.
for review and preview purposes, publishers should distribute games via some kind of central organisation that is independent of the publishers and the press, so they can't selectively refuse to provide content to legit sites.
Also I don't get the idea of pressure in this context. Why would Activision care if a website points out the PS4 version is way better? Wouldn't that potentially sell more PS4 versions? If you're a multiplatform publisher, isn't it better to have honest reporting, otherwise one of your platforms potentially suffers.
Polygon and Kotacku don't live on reviews. They actually disseminate news. Kotacku is more about pop culture with a Japanese bent while Polygon is about deeper issues such as industry insight, gaming culture on a global level (as opposed to an American/Euro focus) and politics.
IGN lives on their reviews but have grown so large they have a lot of money flowing to them thanks to the integrity they used to have. To their credit at least they are still focused on reviewing games unlike say MTV or Sifi Channel who have fallen way off of what they originally used to do.
I wish more people would just stick to the basics like this. When folks say "it's about the games", they should be meaning "the games I want only exist here", instead of "the games are better over here".
I was in the opposite boat last-gen, I wanted a PS3 for the exclusives. I'm sticking with PS4 for the same reason. The fact that it's both cheaper and more powerful is just icing on the cake.. it's not the actual reason I'm buying one.
Just say "I wanna play Halo" and I think most of the folks here (aside from the assholes) will be perfectly okay with that. That's the only "defense" you need for a purchase decision, IMO. Loyalty to a game or franchise is very different from loyalty to a hardware brand. Don't buy an Xbox just because it's an Xbox... that makes you stupid.
That's an interesting idea. Why not have the role of the ESRB expanded to forward review copies since they already need a game to look over for their ratings?
ebullientprism
Member
Check out the current front page of Kotaku:
Here's a story on next gen consoles that points out an issue. Looks like the PS4's hard drive will fill up too fast. Damn, that doesn't sound good at all!
Now, if you bother to click on the headline and read the article, you learn after a few paragraphs that the same news applies to the XBox One. So, why is a negative story filed under PS4?
Conspiracy! Subliminal messaging! Moneyhats! Corruption!
Oh no, wait. Its the other one.
That is called begging the question.
Or it could just be incompetency and they forgot the Xbox One tag.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
It's going to be interesting when those game reviews start to come out. Will the BF4 on PS4 rate much higher than the X1 version?
If not, well...
Well the situation is getting pretty dire on Neogaf when it comes to trust and 3rd party websites.
Yesterday a thread about Marcus Beer was locked because of a rumor he was spreading on gametrailers. It caused such a hang up no one cared that Sony still hasn't given 3rd parties consoles to review even though we are 2 weeks away from launch.
They lack of trust is so deep here noone cares that 3rd parties aren't getting hardware they should've had by now to test like in previous launches. Heck the Ouya console was reviewed a month before it launched and plenty of issues were touched on because of it.
There is still a need for someone to talk about even more expensive pieces of hardware before they are released on consumers.
Considering the Skyrim scores I will flip my shit if they become inconsistent on this regard and my last gen console was a Wii. I could only imagine how everyone else who cares even more about graphical differences would react to such obfuscation of information.
Can Crusher
Banned
As a journalist who is supposed to comprehend basic levels of communication, why would you ever write that?
(I actually like Kotaku as of late, and they deserve the traffic)
Can I just add, I don't browse go to Kotaku like I do Eurogamer or here or the BBC site, it's not a site I go to in the morning when I get to work. But they have been excellent in the last 8 months or so on the next gen rumor mill, when plenty of people were saying it was all bullshit because it was all ass backwards from what we'd heard before. Some great pieces and before anywhere else too.
And by all accounts they didn't last time or the time before that.
And by all accounts they didn't last time or the time before that.
IGN is trying to do something else like food ads etc.
If gaming is mostly 15-30 then why no car ads ? or alcohol ads ?
plagiarize
Banned
that thread was locked because the rumours were unsourced bullshit.
as I said in it, when ONE PS4 at an event crashed, it created a fairly long discussion here. if the PS4 had a 30% failure rate, we'd be hearing of regular problems at trade shows and store demos, etc.
koji kabuto
Member
So game journalists doing this stuff for free?
Downplaying every single negative thing about the xbone telling people it's okay and it does not matter while exaggeration of small issues like mp3 on the PS4.
Yeah right...
i really need to get on this "gaming journalists" wave
make a website+twitter+youtube accounts and start shilling for gaming companies exchange of free stuff and add revenue.
/s
Downplaying every single negative thing about the xbone telling people it's okay and it does not matter while exaggeration of small issues like mp3 on the PS4.
Yeah right...
i really need to get on this "gaming journalists" wave
make a website+twitter+youtube accounts and start shilling for gaming companies exchange of free stuff and add revenue.
/s
Conspiracy! Subliminal messaging! Moneyhats! Corruption!
Oh no, wait. Its the other one.
It's not really a conspiracy. The issues and players involved are pretty well understood. Corruption doesn't always take place behind closed doors.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Because the story was based on info from the back of a PS4 game box.
Thus the tag. If someone reads the article it clearly states that Xbone has the same issues, but they don't know the details about caching and installs yet.
They have the PS4 box that shows exactly what the install says it needs.. so thus the PS4 tag.
Can't believe people are using a tag as evidence of anything.
Thus the tag. If someone reads the article it clearly states that Xbone has the same issues, but they don't know the details about caching and installs yet.
They have the PS4 box that shows exactly what the install says it needs.. so thus the PS4 tag.
Can't believe people are using a tag as evidence of anything.
Because they had history of posting their own click bait articles when there's slow news days.
There was one story in particular from Patricia Hernandez that questioned if Far Cry: Blood Dragon was homophobic because of a throwaway gay joke.
Edit: I still regularly visit Kotaku, but I roll my eyes when they do a story like rate and review cheetos as a snack food.
Ya, at this stage, as an informed consumer I have been given no reason as to why I should be confident with a next gen purchase. Since I'm mainly a PC gamer anyways I will be sitting on my wallet until they show me that their shit is together.
She was actually questioning whether the joke itself was harmless, not the game.
& she answered the question with
Yeah, dunno about that article being clickbait. Should the question not have even been asked?
Glass Shark
Banned
Good morning.
After sleeping on this, I realized that you guys have made a lot of great points that I didn't take to heart because I was letting my emotions get in the way of the real issue. I also think that you're right to feel that your interests are not being served as well as they could be.
After taking emotion out of it and approaching the resolution issue critically, I started doing some research and testing of my own. I'm... a bit surprised about some of the ways this has been reported. I've clearly been shortsighted in the way I approached this, and it seems others have too.
All of that is to say that I've got something in the works that you all may be interested in. I'll post it here later today.
After sleeping on this, I realized that you guys have made a lot of great points that I didn't take to heart because I was letting my emotions get in the way of the real issue. I also think that you're right to feel that your interests are not being served as well as they could be.
After taking emotion out of it and approaching the resolution issue critically, I started doing some research and testing of my own. I'm... a bit surprised about some of the ways this has been reported. I've clearly been shortsighted in the way I approached this, and it seems others have too.
All of that is to say that I've got something in the works that you all may be interested in. I'll post it here later today.
If that's the case, then why didn't they downplay the power differences between the Wii U and the PS4/XOne too? It is a major difference, yes, but it is not the HD/non-HD obvious Wii difference like last generation that was much reported on. I haven't seen a great explanation for it, and I'm trying to find one that isn't conspiracy-theory-y, especially since it will likely continue once the PS4/XOne release.
This made my morning. Thanks!
Nintendo wasn't the go to console last generation nor was it popular among the press. I dunno how many articles or video's I watched where they were talking about how disappointed they were, with nintendo and the wii.
astarisborn94
Member
I am not a person obsessed with how advanced visuals are. Resolution was also something I wasn't aware of being such a big deal and I was shocked to find out a few days ago how much of a difference 1080p and 720p makes (thank you NeoGAF for having me stumble into that fact, although I still don't care that much about HD resolutions).
Yet I don't see how anyone could defend the Xbox One's $500 price. The PlayStation 3 may have made the bone-headed move of costing $600 for the 60 GB launch version, but at least $500 40 GB and $400 20 GB versions were made available and the PlayStation 3 could claim to be the most powerful console of the 7th gen. The Xbox One, on the other hand, has weaker specs than the PlayStation 4 and we have to remember that Microsoft did intend to unleash a virus that could have destroyed the integrity of console gaming as we know it. The only reason why Microsoft priced the Xbox One more than the PlayStation 4 is because it has Kinetic bundled into it (and I guess to maximize profit). Microsoft has a lot of work ahead of them before they can get me to buy a Xbox One (as well as many others).
Yet I don't see how anyone could defend the Xbox One's $500 price. The PlayStation 3 may have made the bone-headed move of costing $600 for the 60 GB launch version, but at least $500 40 GB and $400 20 GB versions were made available and the PlayStation 3 could claim to be the most powerful console of the 7th gen. The Xbox One, on the other hand, has weaker specs than the PlayStation 4 and we have to remember that Microsoft did intend to unleash a virus that could have destroyed the integrity of console gaming as we know it. The only reason why Microsoft priced the Xbox One more than the PlayStation 4 is because it has Kinetic bundled into it (and I guess to maximize profit). Microsoft has a lot of work ahead of them before they can get me to buy a Xbox One (as well as many others).
As far as the media is concerned, it does seems like the rules have changed. How many times this gen we've read articles and seen comparison videos between 3rd party PS3 vs Xbox 360 games, and the flaws in the PS3 version would get pointed out. resolution and frame rate were important areas that always got pointed out.
It just seems since the PS4 has a obvious advantage in terms of resolution, and framerate for Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty Ghosts (over the Xbox One versions) we are now suddenly seeing numerous "it really doesn't matter" "both looks nice" arguments popping up all over the media. Which is a complete reversal on how resolution and frame rate was called repeatedly during this current gen.
It just seems since the PS4 has a obvious advantage in terms of resolution, and framerate for Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty Ghosts (over the Xbox One versions) we are now suddenly seeing numerous "it really doesn't matter" "both looks nice" arguments popping up all over the media. Which is a complete reversal on how resolution and frame rate was called repeatedly during this current gen.
Well don't get too burnt out on what you want to do next. Readjusting the current state of journalism requires a lot of people to reexamine how they do things.
This is not how we talk to people.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Because the difference between the WiiU and the PS4/XBO is an order of magnitude bigger than the difference between the XBO and the PS4.
if the gaming media is scared of being blacklisted by the publishers(an excuse that is being thrown around here) they are giving in to a false power. If just one major outlet like ign or kotaku or whoever else decided that they were not going to go along with the status quo, and called out publishers for not being cooperative with them they would gain all kinds of traffic for being a stand out media source. This would cause either publishers to cave or other outlets to follow suit and the power would go into the media's hands were it belonged in the first place. the industry should bow to the media and the media should bow to the consumer. right now it seems to be completely reversed
NoirVisage
Banned
Has he replied to this yet? Has he even addressed the "but the difference is no big deal" mantra he's also adopted?
Kotaku published that rumor about Home prior to its reveal and Sony contacted them saying they were essentially blacklisted. Kotaku called Sony out on the site for that, and the decision was quickly reversed by Sony, since it made them look terrible. If things like this are continuing to happen to gaming media and they're not calling out publishers for it, then they should be, cause that attention just makes the publishers (or whoever) look terrible.
All links to that article don't seem to work, but here's Joystiq's recap on it.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Thanks for saying that, I didn't want to backseat mod.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, you hit the nail on the head. Most of the big gaming sites are being exactly what Rolling Stone, ESPN and TMZ are rolled into one.
They are entertainment sites, they provide entertainment and write about entertainment.
What people are so holding against the gaming media is pretty much par for the course for all industries. ESPN these days is pretty much all opinion pieces, even Sportscenter. It's pretty much opinion, gossip and human interest pieces. The actual scores are secondary for the most part. I guess they figure you can look those up online or check the bar at the bottom for updates.
What it boils down to in this thread is people pretty much mad that major game media has came out and said Xbox One sucks balls, don't buy it, it's shit and the PS4 is vastly superior.
It's pretty much people wanting to promote the console wars forum mentality to journalism.
Yet, there's tons of articles related to how the PS4 is the stronger system, and it's not like that's not out there.
So much anger up in here, and that dude's post to Schier.. that's outright contempt for no reason for a guy who at least comes to GAF and joins the conversation and provides insight.
Apologies if anyone else has already made this point, but surely a major reason great articles get short threads is because there's often not much more to do but go and read the article? After the first six or seven instances of 'good article', 'thanks for posting this', 'another great piece by Jason' there's not much left to do but throw your own compliment on the pile, and after a while you start feeling like a berk if you do that.
I've seen some amazing threads on here, entirely Gaf-made, that die about page 3. Not because no one cares, or because they're not reading it, but because the OP and a few significant responses say all that needs to be said, and so well, that there's nothing left to add.
So hey, don't get frustrated, as long as the article gets the readers in it's all good.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Yeah, I'd be wary of using 'number of pages of GAF thread' as reliably measuring anything. Least of all, 'merit of thread'...
I get where you are coming from with this. I've seen a lot of interesting threads die because they lack clickbait thread titles. I know this first hand where I made Michael Pachter threads without directly referring to Pachter or using his most inflammatory remarks as part of the title.
Many times topics that go beyond comparing console specs, game sales and game previews only get 2-4 pages because it's not something people are emotionally invested in. The only solution is to focus on what makes these topics relevant to your audience sort of how whenever Playboy does an article they do some focusing on the more tawdry and sexual aspects of the people involved even though it may not be as relevant to the larger story they are talking about.
The article is bad but the topic to discuss this was needed.
I think the poster that said something like this summed it up best:
Games console doesn't play MP3 at launch: News, topic on podcasts.
One game console displaying 125% more pixels and better framerate: Not news, not worth to be discussed.
I think the poster that said something like this summed it up best:
Games console doesn't play MP3 at launch: News, topic on podcasts.
One game console displaying 125% more pixels and better framerate: Not news, not worth to be discussed.
NoirVisage
Banned
You're saying a lot of nothing in your post and are showing you really don't get the issue, all last gen, the pixel counting between consoles, even before they dropped, was all the rage, sites went out of their way to point out the most trivial of inconsitencies, in a few cases those inconsistencies were manufactured by the sites..this gen, the gap is clear and the comparisons even more important..except they're not, the mantras of "the difference is no big deal" is safe, where as last gen they weren't afraid to point an accusitory finger at the weaker, reminding us of price points and value, its suddenly no big deal, even the sole defender of journo's in this thread has taken up the "no big deal" mantra in his kotaku article ( and don't get me started on "pick your battles"..its the same battle.) which pretty much lumps him in with the very journalists we've grown tired of.
A mantra and stance which I feel is a safe and cowardly one to take up considering what they imagine they'll lose out on if they tell it like it is without sugar coating a silver lining for the xboxone. Every.single.time.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Very true. Quite often it's the shittiest threads that get the biggest. Lately any thread that enables fanboy bickering just explodes.
If you think "no big deal" is my stance on these issues, you either haven't read anything I've written here, or you're just so sucked into this ridiculous console war that you're interpreting anything I say as "ps4 bad, xbox one good." My stance is and has been that the question here is what these resolution differences will wind up meaning for the systems long term, and that's a question I'm trying to answer - through reporting, not speculation or fanboy nonsense. It'd be wrong to conclude that a more powerful PS4 will mean better-looking games every time, just like it'd be wrong to conclude that these resolution differences don't matter. And there's nuance to this conversation beyond the idea that one console is a winner and one is a loser.
As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.
As for Kotaku's tag system, feel free to email all feedback to Stephen. If you actually think that he's out to get Sony because the first tag on his post about the back of a PS4 box was "PS4," I recommend you take a break from the Internet for a while.
deranged_666
Member
QFT
Also, expanding on this a little bit. Remember last year, during E3 2012, when big gaming sites were reporting that there might be an ever-so-small chance that either Sony, Microsoft, or both, could reveal crumbs about their next console projects? That usually they wouldn't tip their hats that early, but one or both of them might desire to create some early buzz by giving us a peak at the future?
E3 came and went, and that didn't happen. I specifically remember one big site, I honestly forget who, had a reporter on the ground at E3 talking with a Sony exec and asked them point blank, "So, do you have any information to share with us regarding the Orbis project?" Of course, they smiled, almost winked, and replied that they did not comment on rumors or speculation, etc.
Now, I remember the disappointment that a lot of gaming sites expressed that neither Orbis or Durango made any type of teased appearance at E3. The reason for this disappointment was explained to be that the current generation of consoles were already long in the tooth, we were overdue for flesh blood on the hardware side, that we were tired of sub-HD resolutions, poor framerates, frame drops, lowered effects, etc. Clearly, it was time (actually, past the time) for new hardware.
Now the new hardware gets shown, new games are shown, new IPs are here, and we're two and three weeks out from release of the next generation. One console is clearly more representative of next generation graphics than the other, at the very least for the start of their lifespan. One console can run new, fresh games at 1080p natively, the other is struggling to keep the same resolution at the same framerate with the same level of effects. And all of a sudden, the narrative is that it really doesn't matter, people won't notice anyway, you shouldn't really buy any new consoles until well after launch, etc.
I think all people are asking for is some consistency in the narrative. Just like when one site in particular makes a huge deal about Black Ops 2 running at a slightly higher resolution on one console than the other, and how that is like "wiping the grease off of the lens", and then goes one to say that one game running double the amount of resolution over the other is "not a big deal" and "not noticeable" a year later. What we are asking for is WHY the narrative changed. If it is indeed your position that one was clearly a bigger deal and one was not, tell us why intelligently. Not "the loser pixel counters with magnifying glasses are all circle jerking over nothing". Frankly that's dismissive horseshit.