Gentleman Jack
Member
Enforcer is a term that's been used to describe the volunteers that have helped PAX attendees since the convention's inception.
I just got accused of trying to kill discussion. My fucking god.
PAX To Increase Inclusivity Effort With Roll For Diversity Hub And Lounge
- Thread starter ElNarez
- Start date
Enforcer is a term that's been used to describe the volunteers that have helped PAX attendees since the convention's inception.
I just got accused of trying to kill discussion. My fucking god.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
People need to look up the definition for segregation. Cuz networking rooms and dedicated space to issues ain't it. (again, the exact opposite in fact...)
travisbickle
Member
It's not necessary. Have the LGBT logo on the promotional material, call it an "inclusive event" and stop the organisers from making homophobic/transphobic/racist/sexist jokes and you're done.
MHWilliams
Member
Minorities know they exist in numbers in the industry. It's getting the industry and community to acknowledge that which remains the problem.
People are disparaging the idea because the assumption is these lounges will be set off from the rest of the show, instead of front and center. Meaning they'll act as "out of sight, out of mind".
Make the entire convention a safe space. Put diversity right alongside everything else.
Putting someone in their own space doesn't help make them feel less different.
The positive is the idea that someone who wants to learn about diversity has a place to go to learn. For minorities themselves, there's less of a benefit.
Yeah, that is an unhelpful comparison.
Mushroomer25
Member
Two moderately related organizations/people have opinions on a common social issue! A CONSPIRACY IS AFOOT.
Honestly, do you think those two guys are the ONLY ones in charge of this event? That there isn't an entire existing staff dedicated to getting the largest public gaming convention in the US off the ground?
I feel terrible for laughing at this but as a minority this is pretty much what I'm seeing.
SketchTheArtist
Member
You can ignore people on GAF?!
Thanks for the info! And yes, this thread is a gold mine for that.
I'm transgendered and I think it's cynical, pandering bullshit from an unapologetic bigot and his organization. But hey, diversity lounge! Please exchange business cards in the designated box and forget our terrible boss!
Bobs Big Boy
Member
It's a videogame show first, and can't it also be a place where all videogame culture discussions are welcome throughout.
Boy, this would be an easy thread for a Junior like me to get banned in... Must...tread...lightly...
I'll say this about poor PA at this stage... Walk in a minefield and unfortunately you're gonna step on some mines.
I see why they could see such rooms as useful and beneficial to the intended users. It's also blatantly obvious why some see this as distasteful segregation. I believe both sides are coming at the issue with good intentions, but no doubt some will find a way to make the other side out to be unfeeling monsters.
I'll say this about poor PA at this stage... Walk in a minefield and unfortunately you're gonna step on some mines.
I see why they could see such rooms as useful and beneficial to the intended users. It's also blatantly obvious why some see this as distasteful segregation. I believe both sides are coming at the issue with good intentions, but no doubt some will find a way to make the other side out to be unfeeling monsters.
Solid Samus
Banned
Do you know how these expos are structured and scheduled? Are you aware, once again, that these issues are still discussed elsewhere within PAX, focused toward making more people aware? And that this, offering an area to network with and open dialogue much more easily with others vested in the topics not to mention developers and companies offering insights, advice, and jobs, is not mutually exclusive from everything else pertaining at the convention?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Why are people attacking this and comparing it to segregation.
Oh they just read the headline.
Carry on..
..but nothing wrong with this. At least they are trying, and they have in the past. Mike's done some stupid shit, sure.. but he seems to be growing from it. The community would be better trying to educate someone like that instead of constantly attack.
Oh they just read the headline.
Carry on..
..but nothing wrong with this. At least they are trying, and they have in the past. Mike's done some stupid shit, sure.. but he seems to be growing from it. The community would be better trying to educate someone like that instead of constantly attack.
UltraRascal
Banned
This seems insane. I can't even fathom anyone seriously proposing this.
Freaky Fred
Banned
Some of the responses in this thread are simply embarrassing.
Seems like the people behind this plan had good intentions, but obviously you can't please everyone, especially not people who don't even understand what this is.
Seems like the people behind this plan had good intentions, but obviously you can't please everyone, especially not people who don't even understand what this is.
Whether or not the PA guys were involved (I really doubt it) doesn't mean much to me here, because I can only see good coming out of it.
Fucking bingo. I'm a minority, granted not transgendered, but this shit is insulting. Here's your special corner, hope you feel welcome.
Hey, if it means I'll actually be able to get a badge for Prime 2014 then I'm down to douse myself with a buck of paint.
Seriously though, I commend Penny Arcade for taking steps to be more inclusive of the larger gaming community (the LGBT-themed panels were some of the things I enjoyed most at PAXs' past so I think this is a good thing). I'm not nuts about the name "Diversity Hub & Lounge" but the intent is sound and that's what matters.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
And these diversity lounges are there to help the community acknowledge the problem and broaden discussion on these topics. I'm not sure why you're just assuming the Expo has vile intentions for this and plan to hide away discussion. The very idea of these rooms are to broaden conversation and bring it to the fore front! It's not like these rooms are going to be hidden away in a back alleyway somewhere. Nothing in that PR statement suggests that these diversity rooms won't be front and center at the Expos just like every other themed area.
Wolves Evolve
Member
Why are so many posters obsessed with this idea of good intentions? Why does it matter what people's intentions are? It's a multi-million dollar large scale public event with a board, not a fucking birthday gift.
The community did try to educate him and all he did was childishly misunderstand what they tried to convey. All anyone got was a passive-aggressive half-apology that basically amounted to "Sorry that I got caught and called out for saying intolerant and bigoted nonsense".
If it's intended to be permanent than it's a bad idea, but as a first step into creating some type of infrastructure for minorities to build around in an industry that otherwise generally ignores minorities pretty much completely or blatantly offends them (making the environment inherently hostile) it's a great move.
It also makes financial sense for the worldwide market consider outside of the US, with in the world's population those that are "Minorities" become part of the larger majority making for a very large potential target market outside the US that hasn't been very well tapped by the games industry.
It also makes financial sense for the worldwide market consider outside of the US, with in the world's population those that are "Minorities" become part of the larger majority making for a very large potential target market outside the US that hasn't been very well tapped by the games industry.
Mushroomer25
Member
PAX already has a central rule of "Don't be a D-Bag". It's not like the convention has turned into a live-action forum, where people shout racial expletives with pride. The convention as it is, is a fun gathering place for like-minded gamers.
That doesn't mean it's a great place for discussion though. Sure you have panels & spots to hang out - but I see the appeal in having a designated spot for people to meet up & talk about a common issue. Someplace quiet, far away enough from the hectic part of the show floor so it feels more calm.
You're confusing the realities of planning & running a convention with censorship.
Gentleman Jack
Member
So you've given up forever, then?
How is having a separate "lounge" helping anyone acknowledge problems? That's like saying having separate facilities for colored people helped people acknowledge racism. Lol okay.
ITT - idiots who immediately cry out in hatred at past perceived offenses by PA and don't bother to actually read what this thing is.
This is the first honest step I've seen these guys take in acknowledging that they and their fanbase may have issues dealing with people and it's a step towards educating themselves and their fanbase on what's wrong with how they've acted in the past.
But yeah, go ahead and blindly spout vitriol even when PA does something good for a change because it makes you seem just as bad in my eyes
This is the first honest step I've seen these guys take in acknowledging that they and their fanbase may have issues dealing with people and it's a step towards educating themselves and their fanbase on what's wrong with how they've acted in the past.
But yeah, go ahead and blindly spout vitriol even when PA does something good for a change because it makes you seem just as bad in my eyes
PaulExcellent
Member
This sounds pretty good.
If anything, most posts here are just knee-jerk reactions because reasons.
If anything, most posts here are just knee-jerk reactions because reasons.
yes. no.
Call it a room. A hall. A booth. Does that change your perception?
*Because reading comprehension
aspiegamer
Member
If it were just "helping" is there a reason they're not called, say, "helpers"? What is it they've enforced in the past? I'm legitimately curious how the term has been applied. If it's just coincidental that the term sounds batshit crazy now but has had honest-to-god enforcement duties in the past then that's cool.
Still really not a good term for the assigned task in this case and makes it sound downright terrible. Not the sort of thing you want in press releases.
phosphor112
Banned
I know you all love your internet speak, but the term "cis" or "cisgender" is not accepted among the LGBTQS academics and studies.
It always matters what people's intentions are. Shit, the entire criminal law is based around the idea of intention, or 'mens rea'.
Whether or not a person or company intended to do harm or not is essential to answering the question 'are they morally culpable'. If no harm was intended, (or more accurate reasonably foreseen as happening) they are not.
Intention always matters.
Yep, putting them even more apart is only aggravating the issue.
Do you even know what PAX is? It's a convention. There are rooms across the entire convention for many subjects. There's really no other way this can be done. Every room has a specific purpose. This isn't being singled out or anything. It's being allotted a space just the same as everything else.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
WOW! Networking and discussion room for minorities being equated to Jim Crow laws and Jewish ghettos.
Solid Samus
Banned
the key misunderstanding here being that that's not what they're doing
who knows what an expo looks like show of hands
ah, twitter. the home of false accusations and attention whores
I'd be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if he say, actually wrote an adult apology for his intolerance and bigotry.
Mushroomer25
Member
Trust me, some established users are handling this issue with less understanding than you. You're fine.
And yes. At this point, I don't think PA can do anything related to diversity issues without blowing themselves up in the process. The best thing they could have done in this case was to either keep things as they were (panels focused on the issue, non-focused discussion) - or to label this as a "Professional Lounge", and use the space to hold talks dealing with these issues. The fact they actually printed a paper under PAX letterhead that uses the term "Diversity Lounges" only suggests that they need to fire their PR department.
I'm sure you know this, but it's still worth pointing out that it's not even necessarily *for* minorities, because that would imply it's exclusionary. It's *for* everyone interested in those issues.
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