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[Wickerbasket]

Did you even watch the video they provided?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aVpCrhYYaI

That's averaging 30 a lot of the time, maybe 28/29. The minimum it hits in most situations is 26, and even then it's still averaging above that.

Killzone's higher framerate is impressive enough without you having to lie about Ryse's. 25fps average... lmao

Did you watch the video?

The framerate is all over the place; in that last section of the video, it hits as low as 20 fps while hovering around 25 fps on average.

Edit: Watch from 9.30 if you don't believe me. It seems to hit 30fps when there's nothing going on though, so there's that I guess.

 

[BigDug13]

1. You are basing the comparison on launch games built on changing hardware that are often rushed out in time.

2. There are several sources of evidence that show that X1's tools were a mess before launch whereas the PS4 had more mature tools.

3. A CD Project Red dev came out and said that MS ends up being more open about their tools and shows devs more shortcuts later on in the generation whereas people have to create a network of devs in order to find the best ways to develop for Sony hardware.

4. The difference in the end, in my eyes, is probably going to be 900p vs. 1080p with the same effects. AC4 was like this, for one.

5. People usually don't count this but Kinect Sports Rivals is one of the nicest looking games on either console, and its running at 1080p on X1 whereas before they were planning to run at 720p, showing that the tools increased in quality enough to let them hit a better target.

So the specs won't matter and games will look the same. And we're basing that on previous gen asset games.

 

[Killroyskbg]

COD runs higher but also drops much lower as well. I'm on my phone right now so I can't pull up the DF article quickly but they mentioned that the PS4 version has a lot of drops as well. BF4 being broken shows that it was rushed, so the higher amount of work needed to create a larger amount of parity was not put in. AC4 was 900p even after launch and only a patch brought it up to 1080p, showing that it was rushed and X1 running at 1080p wouldn't have had happened without work required post launch. Lastly, I never said both consoles will look exactly the same--PS4 will look better, but there isn't as much of a difference as people like to believe.

It will be the same in he future even with longer development time it is not like they go "hey this one is ok now lets spend 5 times the amount on the other console". They will keep optimizing and get better results on both especially when the first party games starts to roll out and otherwise crush the ones held back.

 

[jcracken]

So the specs won't matter and games will look the same. And we're basing that on previous gen asset games.

Did you even read my post? I never said those things at all.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

COD runs higher but also drops much lower as well. I'm on my phone right now so I can't pull up the DF article quickly but they mentioned that the PS4 version has a lot of drops as well. BF4 being broken shows that it was rushed, so the higher amount of work needed to create a larger amount of parity was not put in. AC4 was 900p even after launch and only a patch brought it up to 1080p, showing that it was rushed and X1 running at 1080p wouldn't have had happened without work required post launch. Lastly, I never said both consoles will look exactly the same--PS4 will look better, but there isn't as much of a difference as people like to believe.

So bf4 issues are due to developer incompetence but not cod issues? (not talking about netcode and the like) Even though the ps4 version of bf4 has a resolution/framerate advantage over the xbone version ?
Why arent you attributing the ps4 cod framedrops to developer incompetence as well, considering it runs at 1080p vs 720p on xbone and it has framerate issues on the best pc setups you can build today ?
Changing the resolution is one of the simplest things a dev can do, theres a reason ir was done on the ps4 and not xbone assassins creed.

 

[Can Crusher]

It will be the same in he future even with longer development time it is not like they go "hey this one is ok now lets spend 5 times the amount on the other console". They will keep optimizing and get better results on both especially when the first party games starts to roll out and otherwise crush the ones held back.

Nevermind the fact that with a bigger install base on the PS4 no multiplat dev on earth will have an incentive to spend more time or resources on the Xbox One version.

 

[King Mac of Furry Frog]

 

[BigDug13]

Did you even read my post? I never said those things at all.

Well you trotted out things like AC4 which is using last gen assets, then using statements about Witcher 3 to make it seem like the XBO version will be on par which isn't what they were saying at all. You seem to just be shotgunning lots of bullet points about why you think this large spec difference (and it IS large) will have very little impact on games.

It is simply not coming true so far. But maybe MS will have amazing tools in comparison to Sony that will somehow negate the advantage that on paper is more than the 900p vs 1080p advantage that you suggest.

 

[Biker19]

Whatever shit you're smoking is lay off of it, it's not good for your brain man. Lol

Seriously though why build for the X1 as lowest common base? Devs didn't do it when they were struggling with the PS3, so why is it that all of a sudden when the tables have turned that devs will suddenly change their mindset and gimp one platforms games?

This. Anyone who seriously believes that Xbox One would be the lead platform for most games because it's "weaker" are living in a dream world.

If anything, it'll be either the PS4 or PC that'll be the lead platform for most next gen games, especially when they're more easier to develop games for than Xbox One is.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

To a totally unbiased person like myself, only the PC is accurately depicted in the last frame of the above comic. Some Nintendo fans can be pretty derpy.

 

[Can Crusher]

It is simply not coming true so far. But maybe MS will have amazing tools in comparison to Sony that will somehow negate the advantage that on paper is more than the 900p vs 1080p advantage that you suggest.

How will the tools even do that? The tools from this point on will stream line development, aside from that I don't see what else they will do. We're not dealing with exotic designs here, with no documentation for developers.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

3. A CD Project Red dev came out and said that MS ends up being more open about their tools and shows devs more shortcuts later on in the generation whereas people have to create a network of devs in order to find the best ways to develop for Sony hardware.

Oh god, not this crap again.

 

[Skeff]

This. Anyone who seriously believes that Xbox One would be the lead platform for most games because it's "weaker" are living in a dream world.

If anything, it'll be either the PS4 or PC that'll be the lead platform for most next gen games, especially when they're more easier to develop games for than Xbox One is.

My understanding is that PC has been lead platform for most games so far and that will likely continue.

 

[Killroyskbg]

1. You are basing the comparison on launch games built on changing hardware that are often rushed out in time.

2. There are several sources of evidence that show that X1's tools were a mess before launch whereas the PS4 had more mature tools.

3. A CD Project Red dev came out and said that MS ends up being more open about their tools and shows devs more shortcuts later on in the generation whereas people have to create a network of devs in order to find the best ways to develop for Sony hardware.

4. The difference in the end, in my eyes, is probably going to be 900p vs. 1080p with the same effects. AC4 was like this, for one.

5. People usually don't count this but Kinect Sports Rivals is one of the nicest looking games on either console, and its running at 1080p on X1 whereas before they were planning to run at 720p, showing that the tools increased in quality enough to let them hit a better target.

1. Yes but the specs inside these machines have never been so close. It is basically just two PC configurations and nothing like earlier gens.

2. What keeps either from getting better tools in the future.

3. They never worked on any PlayStation product before while almost every other studio have.

4. And that is not a difference?

5. Meanwhile at Sony the ICE team is baking cakes with their new colleague Corrinne Yu?

 

[BigDug13]

How will the tools even do that? The tools from this point on will stream line development, aside from that I don't see what else they will do. We're not dealing with exotic designs here, with no documentation for developers.

I know that. It was said in sarcasm, like MS will have some secret developer tools that will negate the hardware advantage.

 

[onQ123]

PS4 is 50% more poweful, not 400%.

1080P is 44% more pixels than 900P & PS4 has 56% more GPU power for games than Xbox One.


Xbox GPU power for games is 1.179 TFLOPS (1.31TFLOPS - 10% for Kinect/Snap)

PS4 GPU power for games is 1.843 TFLOPS ( has a secondary chip to help with the OS with it's own memory)


And this is without throwing in the GDDR5 advantage.

Ryse could have ran 1080P on the PS4.

 

[imt558]

Did you even watch the video they provided?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aVpCrhYYaI

That's averaging 30 a lot of the time, maybe 28/29. The minimum it hits in most situations is 26, and even then it's still averaging above that.

Killzone's higher framerate is impressive enough without you having to lie about Ryse's. 25fps average... lmao

Well, when you read Digital Foundry article, i presume that you saw a big bold text on the side of the article :

"Originally touted as a solid 30fps experience, Ryse misses the mark more often than we'd like with frame-rates often fluctuating between 26-28fps and the most challenging situations even seeing the frame-rate drop into the teens."

On 9:30 to 9:40 ( drop to 16 fps )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Qib67ObcE

But average is about 26.

 

[KungFucius]

Not CPU, but GPU.

and not >> merely >

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

The reason I don't compare Ryse to Killzone SF as far as graphics are concerned is that there's clearly a lot of compromise involved in getting Ryse running on the Xbox One. Its levels are tiny compared to Killzone SF, its resolution is lower and its framerate is more of an issue. The final product still looks very nice and beats Killzone in areas like character models. At the end of the day I think there will continue to be a significant gap between the two platforms throughout the generation. The Xbox One will still get some nice looking games but for most of them you'd always have the thought in the back of your mind that this would be better on the PS4. Dual console owners like myself would always go PS4 if we had a choice but still be perfectly fine using the Xbox One for games where we can't do that (Halo 5).

 

[KKRT00]

Also as everyone is talking about Ryse vs. KZ:SF at the moment, let me just say there are times where Ryse is running 16fps and times where KZ is running at 60fps, just think about that. Ryse averages around 25fps. Looking pretty with drops to 16fps does not show a consoles strength, it shows it's weakness.

Great comparison. Ryse is running in 16 fps with 100 units on screen and 3 explosion and KZ:SF is running in 60 when looking at wall in MP ...

---
Problem is that we do not have KZ:SF framerate analysis in combat, because the only analysis we have is from very slow sections from the beginning.


====

On 9:30 to 9:40 ( drop to 16 fps )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Qib67ObcE

But average is about 26.

And again, drops below 20 are in situations with 100 units on screens and explosions. Drops to 26-24 are in executions, in gameplay scenarios it is between 28 and 30, like 90+% of the time of those two analysis.

---

Ryse could have ran 1080P on the PS4.

Yeah, thats highly probable.

 

[Militant17]

In my opinion with both consoles having basic PC architecture PC will likely be the lead platform for most games now. Then assets and what have you will likely be downgraded from there to suit each respective console with PS4 likely to perform better then Xbox One.

We're not dealing with highly exotic hardware anymore, I mean of course there will be optimising and devs will squeeze more out of consoles due to the closed platform. But it's a case of the console with the more raw power is going to be doing more on screen.

Once people realise this and stop grasping at straws then everyone can move on with their lives. Lol. It's not like the Xbox is going to have shit graphics or look a generation behind the PS4. It's still going to give us some very impressive games, just look at Ryse. But you are kidding yourself if you believe there will be no discernible difference between the Xbox and PS4.

 

[BigDug13]

Great comparison. Ryse is running in 16 fps with 100 units on screen and 3 explosion and KZ:SF is running in 60 when looking at wall in MP ...

---
Problem is that we do not have KZ:SF framerate analysis in combat, because the only analysis we have is from very slow sections from the beginning.


====

And again, drops below 20 are in situations with 100 units on screens and explosions. Drops to 26-24 are in executions, in gameplay scenarios it is between 28 and 30, like 90+% of the time of those two analysis.

As far as I'm aware, the PS4 simply does not have ANY games that drop into the teens in framerate, right?

We can talk about graphics difference and resolution difference all day, but if one of them is going to have a FRAMERATE advantage, that's bigger than anything else IMO.

In fact, I would rather see graphics parity this gen because that means the framerate advantage on PS4 is going to be huge.

 

[KKRT00]

As far as I'm aware, the PS4 simply does not have ANY games that drop into the teens in framerate, right?

Knack and thats with two units on screen.

And You compromise resolution and graphics options to sustain framerate, thats the only reason.

 

[imt558]

Great comparison. Ryse is running in 16 fps with 100 units on screen and 3 explosion and KZ:SF is running in 60 when looking at wall in MP ...

---
Problem is that we do not have KZ:SF framerate analysis in combat, because the only analysis we have is from very slow sections from the beginning.


====

And again, drops below 20 are in situations with 100 units on screens and explosions. Drops to 26-24 are in executions, in gameplay scenarios it is between 28 and 30, like 90+% of the time of those two analysis.

There is no 100 units, maybe 80. Btw. the real reason for frame rate drop in that scene is projectile from catapult, not 100 units or 80, whatever. Average fps in that scenes is about 25 fps before projectile.

Framerate test exist for KZ : SF :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQxzPVzweU

 

[KKRT00]

There is no 100 units, maybe 80. Btw. the real reason for frame rate drop in that scene is projectile from catapult, not 100 units or 80, whatever. Average fps in that scenes is about 25 fps before projectile.

Framerate test exist for KZ : SF :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQxzPVzweU

Seriously, cant You even read short post? I've said that there is KZ:SF analysis, just not from many combat scenarios.

18-16 are when it transitions to 3rd person to Marius, not because of explosions. Of course explosions do decrease fps by 2-4 from earlier scene.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Knack and thats with two units on screen.

And You compromise resolution and graphics options to sustain framerate, thats the only reason.

Knack never hits the teens; the lowest it went was mid 20s. It actually has a higher average framerate than Ryse.

You can check Digital Foundries test in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Dhr17o0YU

Have we really come to comparing a kids game to Microsoft's graphical show piece? I know they have similar scores and all, but it's pretty embarrassing.

 

[BigDug13]

There is no 100 units, maybe 80. Btw. the real reason for frame rate drop in that scene is projectile from catapult, not 100 units or 80, whatever. Average fps in that scenes is about 25 fps before projectile.

Framerate test exist for KZ : SF :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQxzPVzweU

So more open world than Ryse, sits in the mid 30's most of the time during action, and is 1080p. Even if you say Ryse looks better visually, it's only one aspect of the performance differences and that's mostly an artistic impression of which game you feel looks better. 10 fps framerate difference on average is pretty big, especially at a higher resolution with a constantly shifting and rotating camera angle as a FPS game.

 

[TTSupra]

Drops to 26-24 are in executions

So 90% of game runs at 24-26?

 

[BigDug13]

Seriously, cant You even read short post? I've said that there is KZ:SF analysis, just not from many combat scenarios.

18-16 are when it transitions to 3rd person to Marius, not because of explosions. Of course explosions do decrease fps by 2-4 from earlier scene.

What do you mean not many combat scenarios? Watch the video and skip to the later sections. There's at least 20 minutes of measured framerates of the combat gameplay.

 

[KKRT00]

What do you mean not many combat scenarios? Watch the video and skip to the later sections. There's at least 20 minutes of measured framerates of the combat gameplay.

Stealth action and some fights with two-three helgast are not really representative of whole the game or even main sections of the game, where You have scenarios with even 10+ npc in combat.

---

So 90% of game runs at 24-26?

Yeah, troll more.

 

[BigDug13]

Stealth action and some fights with two-three helgast are not really representative of whole the game or even main sections of the game, where You have scenarios with even 10+ npc in combat.

---


Yeah, troll more.

And what are the framerates of those sections? Are you suggesting that Killzone experiences similar framerate issues and similar framerate speeds as Ryse?

 

[Militant17]

This reminds me of the old "devs are lazy that's why PS3 gets bad ports" argument from years ago. I wonder when the Xbox defenders are gonna pull that one out. Hahaha.

 

[killatopak]

inb4 1000 pages and fanboys getting banned.

 

[teh_pwn]

Considering PC's need extra processing for background tasks, Ripping videos etc, Games generally not being CPU bound Versus DEDICATED CPU's each with 8 Cores of various tasks designed for each Core. It all helps, PS4 GPU compute will be interesting also.

Ripping and re-ecoding videos aren't light background tasks that a PC gamer would do while playing a game. Nor are PC gamers obligated to rip DVDs while playing games.

An idle OS, whether it's Windows 8 or Ubuntu, uses 0-2% CPU in bursts. Probably averages a fraction of a percentage.

And that's on a CPU with over double the core frequency, double the IPC, and orders of magnitude faster with apps that use instruction sets like AVX2.

Though as a gamer in general, I'm glade my PS4 has a weak many core CPU because it will mean fewer console->PC ports where the game is crazy inefficient with the CPU. Not only in per core, but number of cores used.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Why has the argument turned into KZ v Ryse.

The evidence which shows the difference in power can be found in a technically demanding game running on both systems. And BF4 on PS4 performs significantly better than the XB1 version.

 

[KKRT00]

And what are the framerates of those sections? Are you suggesting that Killzone experiences similar framerate issues and similar framerate speeds as Ryse?

I would know if there would be analysis from sections with more combat or more combat heavy situations.
On current analysis it actually falls slightly below 30 or stay almost entirely on 30 in some situations and those are far from very heavy and i would like to know, how engine handles very heavy combat situations.
We have that in Ryse analysis, we dont in KZ:SF one.

 

[TTSupra]

Why has the argument turned into KZ v Ryse.

The evidence which shows the difference in power can be found in a technically demanding game running on both systems. And BF4 on PS4 performs significantly better than the XB1 version.

Who knows...Im trying to figure out why somebody brought up 100 units. Now I look at DR3 and Im trying to figure out what happened in their graphics department.

 

[pelican]

Substance Engine is an algorithmic texture generation middleware and according to benchmarks published on GamingBolt the PS4 CPU is faster than the Xbox One.

Obviously the xbox was offline.

I'm sure when connected to the cloud we shall see different results with the Xbox CPU being infinitely faster than the PS4 CPU.

 

[KKRT00]

Who knows...Im trying to figure out why somebody brought up 100 units. Now I look at DR3 and Im trying to figure out what happened in their graphics department.

I dont know, maybe because situations with 100 units on screen are more demanding that those with 3-7. Do You think that KZ:SF would perform the same with 2 units on screen as with 20 units on screen?

 

[teh_pwn]

Actually, go look at the benchmarks in todays games for a 7770. What you see on the X1 is just what you would expect from a bandwidth starved 7770. 7770's can barely run 30fps / 1080p in todays games if you want to keep fidelity up. You either drop resolution, keep some fidelity ( still have to compromise ), or keep resolution and drop fidelity quite a bit.

So far devs seem to be dropping the resolution.

For example, here is Crysis 2 ( ! ) attempting max details @ 1080p on the 7770.

Yeah, I agree. However I would note that while Crysis 2 is old, CryEngine has always been way ahead of where 99% of PCs/consoles can do, and Crytek has a history of optimizing for new hardware like 8 cores/threads. There are probably a lot of brute force, high cost, low reward effects that could be reduced and clever use of art or lots of low cost effects to improve effective visuals. I think we'll see that with what Crytek does next. If it's on XboxOne and they want to get to 1080p they probably will. We'll also see this strategy from Naughty Dog on PS4 probably. I can see myself with a 2x Maxwell or AMD 390X system playing Witcher 3 on PC next year but still being impressed by Uncharted 4.

But important differences this generation I'm excited for:
1. Multi-platform game development should be relatively easy compared to last generation. More games, less compromises.
2. Common architecture means the majority of talented developers will master fidelity by early 2015.
3. Low COGS for systems means the business model will support 5 year generations.

 

[Windom Earle]

Why has the argument turned into KZ v Ryse.

The evidence which shows the difference in power can be found in a technically demanding game running on both systems. And BF4 on PS4 performs significantly better than the XB1 version.

Just the usual KKRT crytek defense force bullshit. Nothing to see here.

 

[coldone]

Surely this benchmark was taken on an Xbox One that was offline and not benefiting from the extra raw power of the cloud.

. Made my day.

 

[TTSupra]

I dont know, maybe because situations with 100 units on screen are more demanding that those with 3-7. Do You think that KZ:SF would perform the same with 2 units on screen as with 20 units on screen?

Which game are you implying as 3-7?

Edit: Better not be Ryse since you bluntly came guns blazeing with...

Great comparison. Ryse is running in 16 fps with 100 units on screen and 3 explosion

 

[Gamesadict]

LOL

 

[KageMaru]

5. Meanwhile at Sony the ICE team is baking cakes with their new colleague Corrinne Yu?

Just learned about this the other day and it's huge IMO.

inb4 1000 pages and fanboys getting banned.

It will never happen. Without the dramatic fanboys and trolls on both sides, threads like this would never be as large. It's what makes the gaming side so hard to read anymore.

 

[NeoROCK]

PS4 is stronger.

Cant believe there are still some people waiting for a secret sauce lol. Get over it.

PS4 - 1080p
XB1 - 720p/900p

 

[longdi]

is the One this gen Saturn? I thought One had a faster CPU than PS4, but so it seems that isnt the case too!

So many bad choices in the One hardware. smh... While Major Nelson and team was right to say DX engineers are very smart, but the One engineers are looking idiotic now, and they need to take the fall for such disastrous results.

Complete global saturation by Sony. Such thrashing for products going head to head is so rare...If Ken was still around, it would be fun trollin' times... Xbutt3.5?

 

[KKRT00]

Just the usual KKRT crytek defense force bullshit. Nothing to see here.

Yeah, i'm the one talking bullshit here.

----------

Which game are you implying as 3-7?

Edit: Better not be Ryse since you bluntly came guns blazeing with...

Its time to learn how to read.

 

[TTSupra]

Its time to learn how to read.

It was Ryse.

 

[Nafai1123]

Yeah, i'm the one talking bullshit here.

----------

You certainly are shitting up this thread defending Ryse's framerate. Are you and Senj competing or something?