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[Regiruler]

Quite honestly my hype is dying a bit. It's all well and good, but I want someone fresh to play as.

I need a good character reveal. Hades is all I need to be happy.
DO IT SAKURAI, HE'S YOUR (and Scott Bullock's) CREATION!!!!!1!

 

[Dryk]

There's a difference between cuts and replacements. From Melee: Mewtwo, Roy and Young Link were replaced. Mewtwo with Lucario, Roy with Ike and Young Link with Toon Link. Pichu & Dr. Mario were cut. 2 characters were cut, not 5. That's how I see it. It's not like we were going to have Toon Link AND Young Link.

Except Mewtwo and Roy have completely different moves to Lucario and Ike

 

[Waluigilicious]

Except Mewtwo and Roy have completely different moves to Lucario and Ike

I know, they don't have to be similar to be considered a replacement. It's more the case of being from the same series.

 

[ChimpBottle]

There's a difference between cuts and replacements. From Melee: Mewtwo, Roy and Young Link were replaced. Mewtwo with Lucario, Roy with Ike and Young Link with Toon Link. Pichu & Dr. Mario were cut. 2 characters were cut, not 5. That's how I see it. It's not like we were going to have Toon Link AND Young Link.

When you're replaced, you're still cut

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Following up on this, I think I've finally solved the mystery of the Phantom.


People have been using that second screenshot to argue that the Phantom can't be part of the moveset, but they've got it wrong. There's a reason the camera is tilted at that specific angle. It's her Side-B. She summons the Phantom which travels on a horizontal plane until it encounters an enemy, as seen in the first screenshot. The reason you don't see it in the second screenshot is because it has already traveled beyond Peach and Link; the camera is specifically tilted to hide this fact.

I'm now confident enough about this to avatar bet anyone who dares.

I hate to nitpick, and I'm not disagreeing with your logic here, but I feel the need to clear the air:

Olimar did not have a special move pic in his reveal. The move where he's pointing and the Pikmin is flying is his forward smash. I've seen it called his forward B (Pikmin Throw) a couple places, and it's not that at all. In fact, we haven't seen much of anything in the way of special moves from Olimar. We haven't seen the Pikmin Chain, Pikmin Throw, and I can't recall if we've seen the Whistle. I think the only thing it's safe to say is back that we've seen is Pikmin pluck, just because that's how you spawn Pikmin. But I find this, coupled with the fact that we haven't seen more than three Pikmin at a time in pics, kinda cryptic. I think Olimar might be undergoing a change of some kind. But I also may be silly and wrong.

 

[Mariolee]

Quite honestly my hype is dying a bit. It's all well and good, but I want someone fresh to play as.

I need a good character reveal. Hades is all I need to be happy.
DO IT SAKURAI, HE'S YOUR (and Scott Bullock's) CREATION!!!!!1!

Was Rosalina not good enough for you? SMH.

 

[ChimpBottle]

She summons the Phantom which travels on a horizontal plane until it encounters an enemy, as seen in the first screenshot. The reason you don't see it in the second screenshot is because it has already traveled beyond Peach and Link; the camera is specifically tilted to hide this fact.

Or maybe she's just about to cast it?

 

[Fiktion]

Or maybe she's just about to cast it?

That would imply significant delay, which is not impossible but I think unlikely.

Also, I actually think this increases Toon Zelda's chances. I doubt Sakurai would include that move if we weren't ever going to see the Phantom with its original artstyle.

 

[Kokonoe]

Following up on this, I think I've finally solved the mystery of the Phantom.


People have been using that second screenshot to argue that the Phantom can't be part of the moveset, but they've got it wrong. There's a reason the camera is tilted at that specific angle. It's her Side-B. She summons the Phantom which travels on a horizontal plane until it encounters an enemy, as seen in the first screenshot. The reason you don't see it in the second screenshot is because it has already traveled beyond Peach and Link; the camera is specifically tilted to hide this fact.

I'm now confident enough about this to avatar bet anyone who dares.

I believe you are correct. Her arm is also bent in a different way which could mean that's the part of the animation where it ends or before it starts.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh and a buddy of mine made a neat observation. Look at the poses.

Shiek is actually Zelda's Stand.

 

[Fiktion]

I believe you are correct. Her arm is also bent in a different way which could mean that's the part of the animation where it ends or before it starts.

And really, why else would they redo the Phantom in the Twilight Princess artstyle? Zelda's got a new moveset. We already know that Pit's Up-B and Side-B have been changed, the possibilities are endless. All sorts of characters might have been tweaked or overhauled.

 

[PS_GUY]

So when are these games being released? I know sometime next year, but which quarter?

 

[Oblivion]

But Bowser was the boss of Melee's adventure mode? Giga Bowser only appeared if you finished on Hard and above under a certain time limit, IIRC.

Here's a video showcasing it:
http://youtu.be/iAaQwv9kGp0?t=43s

.

OMG

Never seen that before! :O :O :O

Is that a remixed Final Destination theme? I never heard that in the sound test! :O

 

[Kokonoe]

OMG

Never seen that before! :O :O :O

Is that a remixed Final Destination theme? I never heard that in the sound test! :O

Also works on Normal mode, not just Hard.

And yep, Giga Bowser has his own theme.

Giga Bowser - Super Smash Bros. Melee Music

It's awesome stuff.

 

[Oblivion]

The reason that I don't hate the Hand Bros is because they fit with Nintendo Tropes imo.

Here's some examples.

I feel as though Master and Crazy Hand represents the Hand Enemies as a whole.

Wow, that's a lot of hands, lol.

But you forgot one:

 

[Bill Rizer]

What if Zelda's Phantom act really like an actual stand? She evokes it with her down+B, and at that point the thing follows Zelda changing her moveset as a whole. You would have obviously pros/cons doing this and it could make Zelda a much more interesting character (we agree she was quite dull, Sheik apart, do we?).

 

[SkullHydra]

What if Zelda's Phantom act really like an actual stand? She evokes it with her down+B, and at that point the thing follows Zelda changing her moveset as a whole. You would have obviously pros/cons doing this and it could make Zelda a much more interesting character (we agree she was quite dull, Sheik apart, do we?).

I don't think we really need any more characters who control more than one unit. I actually like Zelda's current style, but am definitely looking forward to seeing what's new.

 

[Kokonoe]

As long as she keeps the electric air kick and Nayru's Love, I'll be good.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Following up on this, I think I've finally solved the mystery of the Phantom.


People have been using that second screenshot to argue that the Phantom can't be part of the moveset, but they've got it wrong. There's a reason the camera is tilted at that specific angle. It's her Side-B. She summons the Phantom which travels on a horizontal plane until it encounters an enemy, as seen in the first screenshot. The reason you don't see it in the second screenshot is because it has already traveled beyond Peach and Link; the camera is specifically tilted to hide this fact.

I'm now confident enough about this to avatar bet anyone who dares.

I'll take that bet. I still believe it's just an Assist Trophy.

Her arm is also bent in a different way which could mean that's the part of the animation where it ends or before it starts.

I think it just looks that way because of the camera angle.

 

[leroidys]

That would imply significant delay, which is not impossible but I think unlikely.

Also, I actually think this increases Toon Zelda's chances. I doubt Sakurai would include that move if we weren't ever going to see the Phantom with its original artstyle.

That's an interesting point - hadn't thought about that.

The reason that I don't hate the Hand Bros is because they fit with Nintendo Tropes imo.

Here's some examples.

I feel as though Master and Crazy Hand represents the Hand Enemies as a whole.

Nice post.

 

[BGBW]

Thats dumb.

And unimaginative, it makes me feel like nothing is happening. Oh they are just toys, who needs this explanation.

Also something comics book companies, like marvel had fixed decades ago.


" Its a different dimension"

Done , less lame.

Blam.

Find it kind of funny that them being toys is unimaginative but you feel saying its just another dimension is perfectly OK.

 

[Qurupeke]

The reason that I don't hate the Hand Bros is because they fit with Nintendo Tropes imo.

Here's some examples.

I feel as though Master and Crazy Hand represents the Hand Enemies as a whole.

So many...

 

[Fiktion]

I'll take that bet. I still believe it's just an Assist Trophy.

Alright, if it's an Assist Trophy then you get my avatar and can replace it with whatever you like until the release of SSB4.

If it's part of her moveset then I can replace your avatar with whatever I want until the release of SSB4. If you have any claims on Neorice sprite avatars then I get those too.

Deal?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Deal.

Edit: What do we do if it end up being Toon Zelda?

Spoiler

I know Toon Zelda ain't happening, but I just want to cover the bases here.

 

[Fiktion]

Deal.

Edit: What do we do if it end up being Toon Zelda?

Spoiler

I mean, it won't happen, but I just want to cover the bases here.

If, somehow, it's neither of the two conditions already set, then the bet is off.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

If, somehow, it's neither of the two conditions already set, then the bet is off.

Eh, I was going to suggest something like having both avatars changed by whomever tops the most recent thread's Wall of Shame, but whatever.

 

[Akibastman]

Deal.

Edit: What do we do if it end up being Toon Zelda?

Spoiler

I know Toon Zelda ain't happening, but I just want to cover the bases here.

You took a bad bet. I believe it's an assist trophy too, but there's chance it's part of Zelda's moveset. BUT I strongly believe it's not her Side-B. You should have bet on it being the Side-B.

But in the end, I'm on your side Pop-O-Matic, I hope you win.

 

[Village]

Find it kind of funny that them being toys is unimaginative but you feel saying its just another dimension is perfectly OK.

Universes colliding will always offer more imaginative opportunities than toys, in this instance.

Toys is a weird meta narrative I do not need.

 

[Gartooth]

The idea of Master and Crazy Hand just being a kid playing with their toys/trophies was a really neat idea until it was revealed in Brawl that this isn't the case and the real mastermind is fucking butterfly Tron.

 

[Oblivion]

Just for the record, am I the only one that liked Tabuu? I totally dug the extra-dimensional entity/God thing they went with. It was one theme I'm glad Sakurai decided to carry over in Brawl from Melee.

edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the dimensional motif is something that's been in Smash since the 64 version.

 

[Village]

Just for the record, am I the only one that liked Tabuu? I totally dug the extra-dimensional entity/God thing they went with. It was one theme I'm glad Sakurai decided to carry over in Brawl from Melee.

edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the dimensional motif is something that's been in Smash since the 64 version.

I liked the idea, his design is aweful. And where he came from is dumb,.

 

[Gartooth]

I feel as though alternate dimensions open up many thematic and narrative possibilities.

Toys are always gonna be dumb in this context.

brawls SSE was proof of that.


I find it funny that that you seem to be questioning the many possibilities of Universal level threats and characters, vs everything being pointless and toys. Smash brothers as some terrible meta narrative is bad.

...what? Didn't you establish earlier that you didn't give a shit about any sort of deep narrative and said that Smash should be more like MvC. In other words, we don't give a shit WHY Ryu and Wolverine are fighting because that isn't the point of the game. Why the hell does anything dealing with subspace, extra dimensions, Tabuu, etc. exactly fit in Smash by that definition?

The idea of Master and Crazy Hand basically being the player's own hands with the world their own imagination is a creative and neat way to throw the world's of Nintendo together because the characters are all puppets for the player to toy around with. Additionally, it was a very playful concept that wasn't at all intrusive because it mostly stuck to the background rather than being given an extravagant story mode with cutscenes or the like. Basically, we don't give a shit why Mario and Link are fighting, we are making them fight because we want to through an "act of god".

 

[Benzychenz]

Tabuu should be a newcomer in this game.

 

[Village]

...what? Didn't you establish earlier that you didn't give a shit about any sort of deep narrative and said that Smash should be more like MvC. In other words, we don't give a shit WHY Ryu and Wolverine are fighting because that isn't the point of the game. Why the hell does anything dealing with subspace, extra dimensions, Tabuu, etc. exactly fit in Smash by that definition?

I dont have an issue with deep or rather conveluded. I play kingdom hearts.What I have an issue is , adding artificial layers of meta narrative trying to convet a point poorly

The idea of Master and Crazy Hand basically being the player's own hands with the world their own imagination is a creative and neat way to throw the world's of Nintendo together because the characters are all puppets for the player to toy around with. Additionally, it was a very playful concept that wasn't at all intrusive because it mostly stuck to the background rather than being given an extravagant story mode with cutscenes or the like. Basically, we don't give a shit why Mario and Link are fighting, we are making them fight because we want to through an "act of god".

Idea fails for a few reasons.

1) the characters are already are toys.

Which means we are playing as toys, of toys inside a toy.

I did not come to smash for that layer of dumb narrative.

Make a big enemy make him cosmic threat, make it cool colission of worlds and universes. So I can have cool battles inside them, instead of toys of toys of toys in a toy. It ruins all HYPE.

2) it eliminates any potential for expanded narrative, ever. That is why brawls story had to take place on one world, because toys. There could be multiple universes and such, but no, because toys.

It dials the epic adventure meter several notches.


Not everything has to be left up to imagination.

Tell me an effing story with the cool characters, or create some cool narrative.

I can Buy action figures, give me something outside of myself.

 

[Gartooth]

I don't know, I find Smash Bros. "story" charming since the message is basically "it was all just one big fucking game for your entertainment". Fittingly it is the approach taken with Nintendo's games since story has always been at the backseat and wrapped around the game design, hence it is befitting of a Nintendo crossover where the story is literally playing a game.

The scenario of something like Marvel vs. Capcom with a "world's collide"/"fate of two worlds" motif works because it is very much like a comic book storyline in nature even though it is far more lighthearted, hence being befitting of the source material. The new Mortal Kombat's storyline was good too because it was self aware of the fact that the entire game is a reboot of the original series.

 

[BY2K]

The event battle in Melee where you fight Giga Bowser, Mewtwo and Ganondorf at the same time was BRUTAL.

 

[Metroid Killer]

The event battle in Melee where you fight Giga Bowser, Mewtwo and Ganondorf at the same time was BRUTAL.

I made my own challenge of beating that event with all characters... God I played melee so much.

 

[BGBW]

it eliminates any potential for expanded narrative, ever. That is why brawls story had to take place on one world, because toys. There could be multiple universes and such, but no, because toys.

Er... What? Smash 64's intro took place on a desk. Yet this desk transformed into a Marioesque level because of imagination. There is nothing stopping the game from jumping to different worlds which can easily be seen with Melee's adventure mode. SSE didn't have a bad story because they were toys, it was bad cos the writer is a hack.

 

[IntelliHeath]

That would imply significant delay, which is not impossible but I think unlikely.

Also, I actually think this increases Toon Zelda's chances. I doubt Sakurai would include that move if we weren't ever going to see the Phantom with its original artstyle.

I'm pretty sure that we are getting Toon Zelda since they were cut last game due to time.

So when are these games being released? I know sometime next year, but which quarter?

We don't know yet.

 

[DaBoss]

Can we stop with the "Village argues with everybody with a minority opinion" please. It is tiring because he won't budge. Ever.

It has happened so many times. It would probably end faster to agree to disagree.

There's a difference between cuts and replacements. From Melee: Mewtwo, Roy and Young Link were replaced. Mewtwo with Lucario, Roy with Ike and Young Link with Toon Link. Pichu & Dr. Mario were cut. 2 characters were cut, not 5. That's how I see it. It's not like we were going to have Toon Link AND Young Link.

Please stop this line of thinking. It doesn't work like that. Mewtwo was going to be in Brawl too, but time constraints and all, Mewtwo didn't get into the game.

Ike is not even close to Roy. The only things they share are the fire property to their Neutral Special, and the counter, which is also shared with Marth.

Young Link was probably replaced by Toon Link, since he covers the role of a small Link, albeit more popular and relevant.

Following up on this, I think I've finally solved the mystery of the Phantom.

People have been using that second screenshot to argue that the Phantom can't be part of the moveset, but they've got it wrong. There's a reason the camera is tilted at that specific angle. It's her Side-B. She summons the Phantom which travels on a horizontal plane until it encounters an enemy, as seen in the first screenshot. The reason you don't see it in the second screenshot is because it has already traveled beyond Peach and Link; the camera is specifically tilted to hide this fact.

I'm now confident enough about this to avatar bet anyone who dares.

While your theory is a bit reaching since we know nothing of the move, Din's Fire also moved horizontally (also vertically, but it was barely used for that) which could make an ample replacement. That is just assuming it would move horizontally.

 

[NeonZ]

That pose in the pictures isn't part of the Din's Fire animations. And, if it is a new Din's Fire animation, why wasn't the attack itself shown in any of the pictures?

The idea that it is Din's Fire, and Sakurai just disguised it by mixing up an unrevealed unrelated Assist Trophy in Zelda's picture, and also didn't show the projectile in the other picture using the same attack, just to lead people to wrong conclusions just sounds almost paranoid. I mean, what would be the point? It certainly doesn't seem like something that will make people happier afterwards when the "truth" is revealed, if the truth is that the only picture showing something new for Zelda isn't actually related to her at all.

 

[DaBoss]

That pose in the pictures isn't part of the Din's Fire animations. And, if it is a new Din's Fire animation, why wasn't the attack itself shown in any of the pictures?

The idea that it is Din's Fire, and Sakurai just disguised it by mixing up an unrevealed unrelated Assist Trophy in Zelda's picture, and also didn't show the projectile in the other picture using the same attack, just to lead people to wrong conclusions just sounds almost paranoid. I mean, what would be the point? It certainly doesn't seem like something that will make people happier afterwards when the "truth" is revealed, if the truth is that the only picture showing something new for Zelda isn't actually related to her at all.

Seems like my wording is terrible. I'm saying assuming that Phantom thing moves horizontally according to that theory, then it would be an ample replacement for Din's Fire since it also has range.

 

[Vidiot]

The event battle in Melee where you fight Giga Bowser, Mewtwo and Ganondorf at the same time was BRUTAL.

Easy with Jigglypuff. Takes like two sleeps and Giga Bowser is dead. He's so big he's easy to hit with it too.

 

[Kouriozan]

So we got characters and stage reveal, it's nice and all but....
What about the musics?!

It was nice getting some music in the Dojo, I kinda miss that.

 

[Qurupeke]

So, I'm playing ALTTP and why the hell there isn't a pink haired Link yet?! Sakurai, pink hair palette swap Link please.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I'm pretty sure that we are getting Toon Zelda since they were cut last game due to time

Is there a source for this?

Edit- nevermind, I found it. I would be perfectly ok with no toon zelda. I'm really not a fan of having two versions of one character.

 

[Akibastman]

I hope we get 50 characters and that most of the new ones are awesome and surprising like Wii Fit Trainer.

If we have 50 characters and a ton of stages, I can wait til Holidays 2014.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Master Hand takes clear inspiration from Wham Bam Rock of Kirby Supers Star, another game Sakurai directed.

 

[Ithil]

The event battle in Melee where you fight Giga Bowser, Mewtwo and Ganondorf at the same time was BRUTAL.

Jigglypuff's time to shine.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I would be ok with Jigglypuff getting replaced by a more interesting Pokemon. I understand she's one of the original 12, but she's always felt like a joke character to me. Give Mewtwo her spot if need be.