This post is from a while back, but any chance you've made a Zelda one? I've got them on rotation now and they look awesome!
Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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This post is from a while back, but any chance you've made a Zelda one? I've got them on rotation now and they look awesome!
I don't think it looks like it comes from Twilight Princess. It has a long torso and short legs like the Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks characters.
The armor is more detailed than in Spirit Tracks, but since there isn't an HD game for Sakurai to pull the model from it had to be created from scratch. There are also a handful of Phantom variants between Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks -- who's to say this isn't an original composite pulling from all of those designs? It doesn't look like any single Phantom design, and it also doesn't have the glowing red eyes of the Zelda-possessed Phantom.
If this was a special move, it probably would've made more sense for Zelda to just summon a Darknut. But we'll see.
Benzychenz
Member
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Not important at all, but she is one of the most popular characters in Awakening from both the fans and the guys over at IS. The debunked roster rumor contributed as well.
For me, its mostly for wanting a Dark Magic user that can bring a much more unique moveset to Smash than any FE sword user ever could.
Still firmly in the "Not happening" camp since Robin could also be a Magic user and is much more likelier than her.
If it was one of Zelda's special moves it makes more sense for her to summon one of Ganon's minions? I mean, I'm not convinced either way but there's a reason he's teasing us with a Phantom of all things.
Yes. Phantoms are enemies, too -- hence the possession. Darknuts are essentially more realistically proportioned Phantoms. If realistic Zelda can randomly control an enemy from Spirit Tracks then surely she can control a Darknut.
Oh I did! Here's the new rar file.
http://filesmelt.com/dl/Smash4.rar
Just PM me whenever you guys need an update, or I could easily just post a new rar whenever a character is revealed, too.
Right, but Zelda herself has historically possessed Phantoms. There's the association. Standard Darknut next to Zelda wouldn't have meant a thing.
Toon Darknuts exist and they neither look like Phantoms nor do they look anything like Twilight Princess Darknuts. The basic Phantom outline had to be maintained so that it would be recognizable and unmistakable, but that aesthetic in that screenshot is clearly more Twilight Princess than Spirit Tracks.
It's a pretty loose association. Toon Zelda's spirit can possess Phantoms in one handheld game, and here we potentially have Twilight Princess Zelda commanding a Phantom from behind. They're mechanically completely different. And besides, does there even need to be an association? Half of the attacks in Smash Bros. are canonically baseless.
Really? A knight with a sword and shield looks nothing like another knight with a sword and shield? I've seen the Darknut/Phantom connection made countless times online over the years. I don't think I'm crazy for thinking they're similar.
That's precisely why people take the Phantom as perhaps evidence of Toon Zelda happening. Say Sheik is made a separate character with Phantom being Zelda's new Down B, why would that be chosen of all things? Because it is possibly the biggest part of Toon Zelda's character when she was "playable" in Spirit Tracks and would fit perfectly in her moveset, with normal Zelda gaining the new move as well. As far as reason, it wouldn't really make sense for Toon Zelda in the middle of battle to become a ghost and possess a Phantom, hence they have her commanding/controlling one without actually being the Phantom. The reason why Phantom was detailed up is because it isn't just a simple AT, and the reason why it is still a "Toon" LoZ design is so the association between Zelda and her time as a Phantom in Spirit Tracks becomes obvious.
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Zelda, Link, Snake and others represent their whole series, not just individual incarnations. TP Zelda in Brawl still retained the Shiek transformation without having any basis in the game, it stands to reason that TP Zelda would also be able to use an ability another Zelda has.
There doesn't need to be an association, but Zelda using a Zelda's ability makes more sense than Zelda using something of Ganon's when he's also lurking in the game somewhere.
Green Mamba
Member
I am pretty convinced that the Phantom is not an Assist Trophy, almost (almost) convinced enough to avatar bet it.
But I don't avatar bet for anything.
It's just too different from its normal design--every Assist Trophy we have ever been shown, both Brawl and SSB4--has had their design pretty dang faithfully upheld. Waluigi was the most an Assist's design has ever changed (and that was a light denim texture to his overalls). Skull Kid himself is pretty much a direct copy of his MM model with a higher polycount, down to the finest details.
The Phantom differs from the original design in nearly every single detail, from extra patterning to proportions to armor shape and joint design. Absolutely no Assist Trophy has ever been redesigned to such a state--this is the kind of stuff usually reserved for player characters and related bits.
I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the Phantom is an Assist Trophy, it is an absolutely unprecedentedly redesigned one. Disagree with the idea of it being part of Zelda's moveset if you like, but I don't see any way the evidence can be interpreted for it to be seen as an Assist Trophy.
But I don't avatar bet for anything.
It's just too different from its normal design--every Assist Trophy we have ever been shown, both Brawl and SSB4--has had their design pretty dang faithfully upheld. Waluigi was the most an Assist's design has ever changed (and that was a light denim texture to his overalls). Skull Kid himself is pretty much a direct copy of his MM model with a higher polycount, down to the finest details.
The Phantom differs from the original design in nearly every single detail, from extra patterning to proportions to armor shape and joint design. Absolutely no Assist Trophy has ever been redesigned to such a state--this is the kind of stuff usually reserved for player characters and related bits.
I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the Phantom is an Assist Trophy, it is an absolutely unprecedentedly redesigned one. Disagree with the idea of it being part of Zelda's moveset if you like, but I don't see any way the evidence can be interpreted for it to be seen as an Assist Trophy.
Thanks!
I don't think it's a matter of detail - it's a matter of completely rewriting how a character looks, where previous ATs (including the only three revealed thusfar for SSB4) have adhered exactly to the official art/models of the games they originated in. It's just that in this case it's "detailed, HD style" vs. "loose, simple Toon style."
I'll be both impressed and disappointed if it ends up being right.
Impressed because it's kind of cool.
Disappointed because Din's fire is so iconic of Zelda for me.
Regardless, I'm still saying it's not a part of Zelda's moveset. Sakurai frames these shots in aesthetically pleasing ways and they aren't exactly good indicators of what is going on exactly.
Randomly commanding Phantoms isn't even an established ability that Zelda has, though. The only reason she possesses Phantoms in Spirit Tracks is because she's a ghost and can phase into them. She's never seen standing behind a Phantom in her earthly, tangible state and mind-controlling it like a puppet master.
But since none of us knows anything about the Smash Bros. situation, it's probably best we drop the discussion or else we'll end up arguing in a circle. I maintain that the Phantom is an Assist Trophy/some kind of item and that Sakurai put the screen up because he knew it'd get everyone talking.
The fact that the Phantom seems so out of place in Zelda's moveset is making me really curious about Toon Zelda. Was the Phantom incorporated into the OG's moveset in order to represent that aspect of her character without including it as a separate roster slot? Are they sharing the move because they're absolute clones?
Of course, if Zelda ends up getting a whole new moveset, and then Toon Zelda shows up as a clone of that new moveset... I think that's sort of a waste, y'know? No reason you couldn't make them BOTH unique, give TZ the new bits and keep the original the same.. So I'm sort of feeling the Phantom would be in addition to the Din/Farore/Nayru stuff rather than as a replacement. If Toon Zelda's included. Which could very easily not be the case.
Of course, if Zelda ends up getting a whole new moveset, and then Toon Zelda shows up as a clone of that new moveset... I think that's sort of a waste, y'know? No reason you couldn't make them BOTH unique, give TZ the new bits and keep the original the same.. So I'm sort of feeling the Phantom would be in addition to the Din/Farore/Nayru stuff rather than as a replacement. If Toon Zelda's included. Which could very easily not be the case.
JStein0222
Member
So I just started playing the wonderful 101 a few days ago and now I'm hoping with every fiber of my being Wonder Red crashes the brawl
I'm just going to add that neither are the Goddess Magics.
In case anyone’s wondering, this is what Phantom possession looks like in Spirit Tracks. Link whacks a Phantom with his sword, Zelda’s ghost jumps into it, and its eyes turn red. That’s nothing at all like what the Smash Bros. screen depicts.
It'd make more sense as a Toon Link special move, actually.
It'd make more sense as a Toon Link special move, actually.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Isn't it sort of 'Smash Bros' tradition to make things more detailed, with more realistic textures so they all mesh together well?
Yeah, his reasoning could very well be that well, she's royalty in Hyrule so maybe she should be able to command some kind of underling. Or he just wanted to change her up a bit.
Hard to say but I still want to see some damn avatar bets. I'd take an avatar bet for a week, my stance is it's a move.
A few months from now...
"Pic of the day. The Phantom that appears in one of Zelda's screen shots is actually an Assist Trophy. It's quite powerful, so stay alert!"
CrazedProfessional
Member
With Konami possibly coming back with Snake, why stop there? Why not also Bomberman?
I'm thinking it's a new move for Zelda. Most likely down b. I don't think they would completely rework her move set. It fit her well and no one really complained about it like we do with Ganondorf. It would be odd to add a random assist trophy in the middle of a character reveal. Plus the Phantom does look like it's design was reworked to fit more with the tp art style. Also I might be wrong, and things could have changed since Brawl, but I don't think any series got more then one assist in Brawl. We know Zelda already has Skull Kid here.
I don't think Sheik will be cut though. Either a different way to change or a separate character slot would be my guess.
I don't think Sheik will be cut though. Either a different way to change or a separate character slot would be my guess.
Minutes before release:
Remember that Phantom assist trophy? I lied. I just copied and pasted it over the Ridley assist trophy.
Hammer Bro, Waluigi, and Lakitu.
Konami buried his body and can't remember where.
CrazedProfessional
Member
Bomberman has been on more Nintendo Consoles than Snake ever will and I mean with Capcom can pull out Megaman's rotting corpse for Sakurai why can't Konami do the same?
Still going with its a new move.
lol it's perfect
you're not missing anything. i don't get it either. Her popularity though is undeniable and I remember from an IS interview that the developers were also fond of her lol.
The ATs are not has detailed as the actual characters. For some you can easily tell the difference between playable and AT characters. Remember Lyn's reveal? :<
Dimitri LH
Member
That is a TERRIFIC suggestion.....but Konami are assholes now and it was not Konami that wanted Snake in Brawl, it was Kojima. I dont see Konami giving much of a damn about anything anymore.
Bomberman with some stuff from Bomberman Hero would be awesome. Salt Bombs to stun!
More importantly, flinging a ton of bombs at once with twirling.
Bomber Copter could be used for Up B.
More importantly, flinging a ton of bombs at once with twirling.
Bomber Copter could be used for Up B.
CrazedProfessional
Member
I would just like to plant bombs everywhere oldschool and be annoying.
Green Mamba
Member
Characters, yes, Assist Trophies, ranges from not really to no, not at all. Even beyond that, the Phantom's proportions aren't the same between its original design and the SSB4 design. The easiest comparison is their feet--compare the feet of the original design and then compare the feet of the SSB4 design. Why would Sakurai feel the need to redesign a standalone Assist Trophy of a minor controllable enemy to have more normalized proportions when he's perfectly fine translating Toon Link, a player character, completely faithfully, stump legs and all?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Monolith doesn't own an IP. Those are Namco Bandai IP.
Soma Bringer is too obscure and literally never released outside of Japan. I don't even know who owns Baten Kaitos among Nintendo, Namco, Monolith Soft, and tri-Crescendo but even then, the best the franchise can hope for is a trophy or that goddamn DS game that never materialized.
theprodigy
Member
pls if Monolith Soft games are getting a rep it'd be Shulk
To me it looks like they dropped that for this new game. Good thing too, it gives characters like Toon Link a chance to actually look good.