XII Zeal is my favorite shmup I played in 2013, but really all of those are great games.
Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread
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XII Zeal is my favorite shmup I played in 2013, but really all of those are great games.
Poimandres
Member
If I had to choose between Ginga Force and Eschatos which would you guys recommend? I like the idea of lots of different ship weapons, but Eschatos seems to get more love.
I think I'll go with one of those (or both) and espgaluda (because it's less than half the price of saidioujou).
I think I'll go with one of those (or both) and espgaluda (because it's less than half the price of saidioujou).
There is that region-free double-pack. Really like three-and-a-half games. But if you had to pick one go with Eschatos as the menus in Ginga are a little japanese-heavy (unless you speak the language, then disregard).
Eschatos is fast-paced and you ride all three-buttons constantly. You can pick how deep you want to play it.
Poimandres
Member
Sounds good! Eschatos it is!
I'll report back in here after getting stuck into the games. Who knows... I might end up walking out of the store with the lot of them. Lol.
I'll report back in here after getting stuck into the games. Who knows... I might end up walking out of the store with the lot of them. Lol.
gunstarhero
Member
All newcomers should proceed directly to Mushihimesama Futari first. This should be law.
But if those are your only options - then DDP Sai is a great choice. (Can't speak for Zeal since my lazy ass has yet to grab a copy...
I'd take Yes Boss advice on snagging the Double Pack. You get Ginga Force, Eschatos, and a soundtrack disc. All region free. All awesome.
Of course if you cant find it, just roll with Eschatos. Straight action and very addictive.. Ginga Force isnt too bad imo when it comes to JP heavy menus...you might have to find a translation for the ship parts though (has a ship customization feature). There are in game cutscenes, but you can kinda guess what the story is about (if you care about shooting game story anyway).
I think you made a good choice.
SDOJ is great but it's hard as fuck and since you said you're not used to the bullet hell types, I think you'd probably end up frustrated more than anything else (especially if you like to play for score).
Galuda II is also great but has a really difficult and convoluted (as another posted said) scoring system. The core game is also pretty damn hard in and of itself without worrying about scoring well.
The Zeal games are fun, old school type shooters.
I've never played Ginga Force.
IrishNinja
Member
been running through mad Saturn SHMUPs, and realizing my chump status at the genre...little while back i read ECM (from GameFan) doing a guide for scrubs on them and he basically outlined a few points i'm terrible at, wanted to see what you guys thought (pretty sure all of this presupposes pattern familiarity/memory as well as strong comfortability with hit detection)
1) not zipping around the screen when bullet hell starts, but using very very small movements to maximize real estate (i am so bad at this, see the prior point on hit detection)
2) with standard vertical shooters, not playing safety the way i do at the bottom of the screen, but rather, aggressively staying at the very top & trying to kill most enemies before they even appear & buck off shots as a way to avoid needing crowd control/busy screens well before minibosses even show up)
there were other points but those 2 are the ones i really need to work on, especially # 2 which i totally don't have the balls to do most times, haha. is this how the rest of ya'll play though?
1) not zipping around the screen when bullet hell starts, but using very very small movements to maximize real estate (i am so bad at this, see the prior point on hit detection)
2) with standard vertical shooters, not playing safety the way i do at the bottom of the screen, but rather, aggressively staying at the very top & trying to kill most enemies before they even appear & buck off shots as a way to avoid needing crowd control/busy screens well before minibosses even show up)
there were other points but those 2 are the ones i really need to work on, especially # 2 which i totally don't have the balls to do most times, haha. is this how the rest of ya'll play though?
#1 works if you think in a more general sense of being more deliberate in movements. Look at the pattern and try to see how it works and respond accordingly. Thinking of small movements is probably a good way to start since it'll force you focus only on what's coming directly at you, ultimately you can only be killed by what's coming at you. Another way to think about it is if you just move around wildly you'll probably run into the bullets yourself rather than getting hit by them.
#2 works in specific instances (and there are times you don't want to do it), but as general advice I'd put it more along the lines of just using the whole screen. Based on pattern recognition (#1 above) and level familiarity figure out where you want to move around for a given situation, just remember you have a lot more than just the bottom to work with.
With most situations in bullet hells I just move around randomly because I cannot track the bullets well enough to tell where I can go 
. Tiny hitboxes and safe zones kinda force playing those games with a magnifying glass, I like R-Type so much more because it uses very large hitboxes so you don't need to squint.
. Tiny hitboxes and safe zones kinda force playing those games with a magnifying glass, I like R-Type so much more because it uses very large hitboxes so you don't need to squint.
SOME-MIST
Member
you should also check out the full extent of the jam.
sort of helped me when I was going through a rough patch.
With most situations in bullet hells I just move around randomly because I cannot track the bullets well enough to tell where I can go
You might have an easier time playing bullet hells with big bullets like CAVE does, they are alot easier on the eyes compared to Touhou and many other doujins on PC.
Also you eyes and brain need training to beable to make sense of bullethell patterns and the speed they move at, that comes with practice. I'd recommend Blue Wish Resurrection and the other freeware games by X.X Games, bullets are big and move really slowly, so they are perfect for training your eyes.
It is a top-third J-360 release!
i like delta zeal most
IrishNinja
Member
thanks guys, hitting up that link soon! and yeah, bouncing back & forth from Thunder Force/R-Type horizontals to vert bullet hells - or even a modern horizontal one like deathsmiles, for example - the latter seems tremendously more forgiving with the tons of shots on screen, i guess that's just a much smaller hitbox but i don't seem to take an L unless i'm hit dead-center, where even winging me in the classics would do me in.
the other really off-putting thing about the classics (which i still adore) is the element that's been my bane since Fantasy Zone SMS as a kid: if you die with a good weapon on a boss & can't recover it, you're left to now try your best with the stock pea shooter, essentially meaning you're done for and might as well use your remaining lives to work on the boss' pattern a bit. i am so appreciative when modern ones let my scrub-ass reclaim some of my weapon's level, haha.
the other really off-putting thing about the classics (which i still adore) is the element that's been my bane since Fantasy Zone SMS as a kid: if you die with a good weapon on a boss & can't recover it, you're left to now try your best with the stock pea shooter, essentially meaning you're done for and might as well use your remaining lives to work on the boss' pattern a bit. i am so appreciative when modern ones let my scrub-ass reclaim some of my weapon's level, haha.
Yeah I probably shouldn't try to make sense of Hellsinker right now. However I'm not convinced that I even want to bother with learning to understand bullet patterns, I prefer more tactical approaches like deploying shields or using the Force to prevent hits over playing Kurukuru Kururin with glowing orbs.
Delta Zeal is neat too. It looks great. The 2D pixel art is fantastic, and you can definitely sense the Raiden Fighters-ness from it. The weapon upgrade system eludes me still, and I have no idea what I'm doing most of the time, but it's fun. I definitely prefer the two 2D games on the 10th Anniversary (XIIZeal & Delta Zeal) disc way more then the bland 3D crap from the 200X disc.
There are 3 weapon upgrades - red (spread) blue(laser) and green(missile)
You can have a total of 10 upgrades stocked at one time. If you pick up a power-up at full capacity, your least-recently-picked-up power up is removed from your stock.
Your shot is a combination of what power-ups are in your stock, and the more you have of one color the more powerful that weapon is. For example, if you have 7 blue, 1 green and 2 red, you'll have a powerful laser, a weak spread shot and a weak missile shot. If you have 10 red, you'll have a very powerful spread shot.
Cool, thanks for the info. I figured it would be something like that. If I had to say one nice thing about Fujino's games, is that the weapon systems are unique and interesting.
nailbombxx
Member
I think Battle Bakraid might be one of the best shooters I have ever played!
Any advice for the most effective ship to use? Steel Bat seems to be the best from what I've used.
Any advice for the most effective ship to use? Steel Bat seems to be the best from what I've used.
Poimandres
Member
Thanks for the tips while I was in Japan guys!
I ended up picking up both ESP Galuda II and Eschatos. I'll let you know how I fare with both... I'm anticipating a steep learning curve with Galuda, but hey, you have to start somewhere right?
This thread has also made me dig out my old copy of Raystorm for PS1, now next to R-Type Delta on my TV shelf ready for easy access.
I ended up picking up both ESP Galuda II and Eschatos. I'll let you know how I fare with both... I'm anticipating a steep learning curve with Galuda, but hey, you have to start somewhere right?
This thread has also made me dig out my old copy of Raystorm for PS1, now next to R-Type Delta on my TV shelf ready for easy access.
To Far Away Times
Member
Solid Ray is my go to.
nailbombxx
Member
That one has a ton of firepower, but does it have a bigger hitbox?
StarCreator
Member
Very, very steep if you stick to the arcade modes... I picked up an Espgaluda II at the same time I got a cab this year, and ended up buying Esprade immediately because I wanted a game I was capable of reaching stage 4 in .-.
I'd have gone with Mushihimisama Futari over Esp Galuda 2, Futari is a great for noobs and pros alike and will grow with you as you get more skilled.
adversesolutions
Member
Co-worker picked this up for me at Comiket.
Looks like my GOTY ballot is going to go right up to the deadline...
Looks like my GOTY ballot is going to go right up to the deadline...
Poimandres
Member
Yeah, I would have gone with that but my options were limited to what was in stock at the local store. If I had more time I would have gone hunting.
Esp Galuda 2 sounds hardcore. Well, the only thing for it is to bite down and take it! Haha.
The prequel is on XBL IG, I did play an alpha of the version you have, good game / music but white bullets on a blue and white background is a daft idea. Does the release version still have any disappearing bullets?
@Poimandres
Luckily Futari had a platinum release so it should be easy to get hold of online.
adversesolutions
Member
I've been playing it yesterday and today. I haven't noticed any disappearing bullets although you can cancel bullets with the Overdrive ability. Most bullets are yellow, with a minority being pink and white. I'm having no problems with visibility at all.
Here's a video of the final version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njFZtCt4ek
So far I'm having a lot of fun with it. Whereas the prequel was very focused on rotating and lining up flying enemies in the best combination to score, for this game CrossEaglet added ground-based enemies which you can only hit by getting close and using your lock-on weapon. This encourages you to zoom around the screen and rotate quite a bit to find ground-based enemies attached to buildings, outcroppings etc. Some of them will have 1-ups, overdrive recovery or laser recovery items so they're worth seeking out.
The game also has a route-splitting system where maybe 3 or 4 times a level you can split to go down a different path. Apparently harder routes also open up the better you score.
The game has twitter integration, and it posts your high-scores and achievement unlocks automatically. This is something I've been waiting on other games to include for awhile now so I'm digging it.
Anyways I can only get to stage 3 in arcade mode, so we'll see how far I can get before the weekend. At the moment I can see this making my list.
sixteen-bit
Member
Chain blaster looks neat. I just saw this review. Quite evocative of Every Extend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaQyFa_GzEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaQyFa_GzEM
IrishNinja
Member
how do ya'll find DoDonPachi on Saturn? worth $50?
i picked up Darius Gaiden & Galactic Attack, might catch TwinBee on the cheap if im lucky...one guy's offering Soukyugurentai but i'm not sure how much.
i picked up Darius Gaiden & Galactic Attack, might catch TwinBee on the cheap if im lucky...one guy's offering Soukyugurentai but i'm not sure how much.
sixteen-bit
Member
I love DDP. Unless you're going to play 2P co-op it's better on PS1 though. It's on JPSN too so you can get it for like $6.
StarCreator
Member
For an amusing take on that, this was the result of having a particularly good DDP player try the PS1 and Saturn ports for the first time while he was visiting.
IrishNinja
Member
adversesolutions
Member
Super random info about Gunhound. Apparently the PC version was updated last year after the PSP release, with the following stuff added:
・Updated scenario
・New voice acting in story mode
・New soundtrack
・Some stage design revised, changed and added
・Balance adjusted, new weapons added
・Moves at 60 FPS
・???????
At least one of those ?????? features is the following:
There is an official Gunhound "clock" app on iOS and Android, and if you sync the app and the PC version of Gunhound, all of the game's vocal audio is played through your iPad or tablet. Totally random feature, but pretty cool for such a little studio.
・Updated scenario
・New voice acting in story mode
・New soundtrack
・Some stage design revised, changed and added
・Balance adjusted, new weapons added
・Moves at 60 FPS
・???????
At least one of those ?????? features is the following:
There is an official Gunhound "clock" app on iOS and Android, and if you sync the app and the PC version of Gunhound, all of the game's vocal audio is played through your iPad or tablet. Totally random feature, but pretty cool for such a little studio.
sixteen-bit
Member
I hope that rumor of Shaq Fu 2 is real
Super random info about Gunhound. Apparently the PC version was updated last year after the PSP release, with the following stuff added:
・Updated scenario
・New voice acting in story mode
・New soundtrack
・Some stage design revised, changed and added
・Balance adjusted, new weapons added
・Moves at 60 FPS
・???????
At least one of those ?????? features is the following:
There is an official Gunhound "clock" app on iOS and Android, and if you sync the app and the PC version of Gunhound, all of the game's vocal audio is played through your iPad or tablet. Totally random feature, but pretty cool for such a little studio.
Woah, had no idea there was a PC version, and that feature sounds really neat!
sixteen-bit
Member
Looks like Wolf Fang is coming out on PSN. I always wanted to try that one, but never willing to spend the money for the disc version.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=750740
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=750740
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Both are worth getting. If I could only choose one, I would get Kokuga. Liberation Maiden is great, but I don't see myself replaying it.
Kokuga has a fantastic co-op mode and even supports Download Play. Great for short bursts of play, very replayable and fantastic difficulty scaling. Has a really cool 80s arcade feel to it too.
Guys, I'm getting ready to release a small, indie SHMUP with my friends.
We're on Greenlight as of yesterday. It would be awesome if you guys could check out the demo and let me know what you think, maybe toss us a 'yes' on Steam if you could.
The game is called Shutshimi. Here's a screenshot and a link to the Youtube trailer.
The demo is on the game's website. It'll be on Windows and XBLIG later this month. It'll be a dollar.
We're on Greenlight as of yesterday. It would be awesome if you guys could check out the demo and let me know what you think, maybe toss us a 'yes' on Steam if you could.
The game is called Shutshimi. Here's a screenshot and a link to the Youtube trailer.
The demo is on the game's website. It'll be on Windows and XBLIG later this month. It'll be a dollar.
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Cool, just read on Siliconera that MonkeyPaw is bringing Wolf Fang to US PSN PSOne classics.
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Yeah man, 4 player co-op madness. Enjoy!
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
Co-worker picked this up for me at Comiket.
Looks like my GOTY ballot is going to go right up to the deadline...
Is there a way to buy this game without traveling to Japan?
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