Sega Dreamcast 2

Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included. Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
 
Evil Calvin said:
Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included. Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
Click to expand...
That's not a hot take, it's an actual fact. People consciously said nope to the Dreamcast because of the PS2 (PS1 momentum of course) and the DVD drive being included was like the cherry on top.
 
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Dreamcast 2 launch lineup would have the potential to be godlike:

Grandia I Remake - embraces open world while maintaining the same great turn-based combat system mixed with some strategy RPG mechanics to achieve seamless open-world encounters
Skies of Arcadia III
Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Past
Shenmue IV
Dead or Alive reboot
Jet Set Radio reboot
Shining Force IV
Powerslave II
Persona 6
Phantasy Star Online II

... And so many other IPs they could tap into
 
DeaconOfTheDank said:
Dreamcast 2 launch lineup would have the potential to be godlike:

Grandia I Remake - embraces open world while maintaining the same great turn-based combat system mixed with some strategy RPG mechanics to achieve seamless open-world encounters
Skies of Arcadia III
Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Past
Shenmue IV
Dead or Alive reboot
Jet Set Radio reboot
Shining Force IV
Powerslave II
Persona 6
Phantasy Star Online II

... And so many other IPs they could tap into
Click to expand...
Good list. But I would want some new IP as well.
 
Sorcerer said:
It's never to going to happen, correct.
Looking at it from Sega's point of view, why would they stop selling games on three consoles and pc, go through the hell and cash burning of making and marketing new hardware, only to sell software for that one console. It makes no sense. They would be in the red for at least a decade (assuming they were successful) before becoming profitable. And buy that time they would have had to start thinking about making another round of hardware.
Why not just stay safe where they are just making software for three systems and pc and not put themselves into financial hell?
Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft (not because the games division at Microsoft is profitable, but because daddy gives them an allowance to keep making mistakes LOL) have the money and power to sustain these kinds of cycles. Sega probably does not have enough in the bank to get a console cycle started without risking putting themselves out of business.
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And before we even talk about DC2, where the F is Dreamcast mini?

I'd love that so much.
 
The question is why would Sega do it. They would have to make their franchises exclusive again and currently they are sold on every platform. Nintendo can make this sacrifice because they make money on the hardware and their software has the pulling power to push the hardware. I think we already know the answer to that.
 
Arsic said:
The Dreamcast 2 with exclusives like:
-Sonic who has no good games
-Nights into dreams which doesn't hold the test of time
-Crazy taxi which wouldn't even work as a F2P title in 2025

It's gonna be hype!
Click to expand...
Persona 6
Metaphor Sequel
Virtua Fighter
AAA Sonic (they're trying to reach this, the games have been better, the movie franchise is made with care)
Sonic Kart Racer
Yakuza game
Stranger Than Heaven
Skies of Arcadia Sequel
Phantasy Star Online successor
Shenmue 4
Crazy Taxi revival
Sega Saturn classic re-releases like Burning Ranger
Dreamcast re-releases

I'm not even a huge Sega/Atlus fan and I know I'm missing a lot more exclusives a hypothetical Sega console could have. Sega has better IP power than some console manufactures.
 
Evil Calvin said:
Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included.
Click to expand...
So why did the N64 a cartridge console sell more than the garbagecast when they were both on the market together?
Evil Calvin said:
Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
Click to expand...
Really ?

icxok4gugbk71.png
 
Evil Calvin said:
Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included. Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
Click to expand...

With this 2001 lineup?

icxok4gugbk71.png


and 2000's Ridge racer V, SSX, TimeSplitters, Midnight club, Armored core 2, Tekken Tag Tournement, DOA2 ?

John Candy No GIF by Laff


I mean I can't believe I am making a positive Sony post but here we are
 
We kind of had it with the OG Xbox, it is basically a Dreamcast 2.

But I get your point, from what the president of Sega have stated it might happen, there will be an opening on the console market. If they are smart they can totally won over in one generation:

- Exclusive that use their gimmick
- Lower cost (consoles used to be the budget alternative)
- And if you want to secure the kill: free online
 
KenaiPhoenix said:
from what the president of Sega have stated it might happen, there will be an opening on the console market.
Click to expand...
I feel like I've seen this comment twice in this thread. I haven't listened to all of the recent interviews Sega's president has made. Is this comment about a possible new console from one of his newer interviews?

I just feel like a Nintendo/Sony console market isn't going to be healthy. I don't anticipate Sony being unchallenged (I mean, I guess they've been unchallenged for a long time now) in the high-end console market as being good. Is their 1st party output better on the PS5 than it was on the PS4? Nintendo's domination grew from difficult competition, finding a unique lane and wanting to expand the market.

If Sega had third party support plus their IP as exclusives (I don't know how you go back to this after their IP have been on other consoles since 2001), I think we'd have a more compelling console industry.
 
New sega home console would be DOA.

Better to revive the GameGear brand and go all in on a new portable with a dedicated Sega Launcher.

All first party games 90-day window of exclusivity to the console.

Produce the Dreamcast mini to bank on nostalgia.
 
So, now that SEGA finally makes profit not only to stay alive but also wealth enough to make acquisitions in order to grow its business some people are expecting SEGA to invest lots of money in a console right now when the two infamous console platforms are more than established in the market, and hey let's just ignore the fact SEGA is making money from selling all of their titles for every major gaming platform, lol.
 
Elfstar said:
I want to ask people who still are obsessed with the "Time for Dreamcast 2!!!" nonsense to turn their brain on: how do you even imagine a world where a new Sega console could work when even Microsoft with its infinite money warchest is retreating with its tail between their legs?

What kind of library you think it would have? Exclusive Sonic, Yakuza and Persona games (five milion sellers at their best at 5/10 usd sales)? Reboots of their old ips that are worth basically nothing nowadays? New series? Shenmue 4?
The Sega people beloved was the one based around arcade gameplay filosofies, and that shit was unfortunally dead and buried already in the early 2000s.
You really want the new console to be another Playstation/Xbox clone with games that would be nothing like the ones we used to like? Just because you like the brand?

But again I realize I must be talking with some of those "please MS buy Sega" retards, the dumbest motherfuckers on planet earth.
Click to expand...
Dreamcast fanboys were the worst for having delusional thoughts on DC > PS2. Despite the fact games like Burnout Revenge should that the PS2 was a utter beast of a machine, Xbox port had a few downgrades to get It doing 480p at 60fps. lol
 
lol yes. Sega would need to make Sonic, Atlus etc exclusive in order to boost a little interest in the console. Which would hurt their business outright.

Xeela_sunston said:
Dreamcast fanboys were the worst for having delusional thoughts on DC > PS2. Despite the fact games like Burnout Revenge should that the PS2 was a utter beast of a machine, Xbox port had a few downgrades to get It doing 480p at 60fps. lol
Click to expand...

But you're doing the same for PS2 > Xbox here?

Splinter Cell also got a 'few' downgrades for PS2. etc
 
DreamcastSkies said:
I feel like I've seen this comment twice in this thread. I haven't listened to all of the recent interviews Sega's president has made. Is this comment about a possible new console from one of his newer interviews?

I just feel like a Nintendo/Sony console market isn't going to be healthy. I don't anticipate Sony being unchallenged (I mean, I guess they've been unchallenged for a long time now) in the high-end console market as being good. Is their 1st party output better on the PS5 than it was on the PS4? Nintendo's domination grew from difficult competition, finding a unique lane and wanting to expand the market.

If Sega had third party support plus their IP as exclusives (I don't know how you go back to this after their IP have been on other consoles since 2001), I think we'd have a more compelling console industry.
Click to expand...

More than a "DreamCast 2 coming soon!" is more of a "Will make Sega Great Again! Like when we have hardware and shit!". Adding this to the soon to be new spot for a console, you can speculate.

Now, sadly after a re-read of a post here, he specially mentioned "live service games", so probably Sega would do the most Sega thing ever and fail to do basic things or just straight up arrive late at whatever was trending.

And yes, Sony-Nintendo dominated market is already bad (lets not pretend the Series X have something near a relevance this gen), hopefully a new participant will break the status quo and bring something good at the table. And No (not you, but for many people this is their first though) Steam machines would be awful and Steam as a console platform wouldnt be great either. People are too zealots when it comes to Valve.
 
Evil Calvin said:
Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included. Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
Click to expand...
The Dreamcast couldn't compete with the previous generation. It was dead on arrival.
 
Plies said:
Why?
Even the Dreamcast hardware had Microsoft branding on it.
Click to expand...
dreamcast just had windows ce support, which basically no dev used because performance sucked, and it wasnt even built into the console.

xbox had a pretty strong sega library, and the duke controller kinda looks like an even chunkier dreamcast controller... but thats about it.
the xbox doesnt resemble a console sega would make, and the hardware's not a continuation of the dreamcast's--using a pentiumIII is very MS, not sega.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
dreamcast just had windows ce support, which basically no dev used because performance sucked, and it wasnt even built into the console.
Click to expand...

well, 79 games used it out of 619. that's around 13% and included games made by Sega lol


cinnamonandgravy said:
xbox had a pretty strong sega library, and the duke controller kinda looks like an even chunkier dreamcast controller... but thats about it.
Click to expand...

the original design concept for the controller had a VMU slot. the final controller still had the 2 memory card/expansion slot design of the dreamcast.
the Xbox copied the button labels of the Dreamcast (but changed the colors around to be a bit more sensical).

Sega was also in talks with Microsoft about making the Xbox backwards compatible with the Dreamcast, but that ultimately fell through because Sega wanted online compatibility, and Microsoft didn't want a split online service, where Dreamcast games ran on a free one, while they had Xbox Live in the works.


cinnamonandgravy said:
the xbox doesnt resemble a console sega would make, and the hardware's not a continuation of the dreamcast's--using a pentiumIII is very MS, not sega.
Click to expand...

the Sega Chihiro (2002)
Btdu43OkEA3Zpx9s.jpg


this baby ran, among others: House of the Dead 3, Virtua Cop 3, and a bunch of gundam games.
you can mod an Xbox to run Chihiro games. you need to solder in 128MB RAM and flash the bios of it tho.

also, the Dreamcast almost had a Voodoo 2 GPU. they ultimately chose an NEC GPU, but the Dreamcast almost had what was a popular PC GPU of the time.
and the PowerVR GPU it ended up with was also not really proprietary, just slightly modified, and had a PC equivalent part.
here's a Review of the PC card: https://vintage3d.org/neon.php#sthash.1mxjkh7P.dpbs
DirectX 6 compatible! only 2 DirectX versions behind the Xbox!

so the Dreamcast was absolutely the closest in terms of hardware design to the Xbox of any console in the late 90s and early 2000s. hence Microsoft creating Windows CE for easy PC ports... as it did use relatively mainstream hardware that had DirectX API compatibility, just like the Xbox
 
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There is no point in the hardware side of things anymore. Well, maybe the handhelds. They benefit nothing to release a machine to play these games exclusively than to just sell them on all consoles. Microsoft and Sony are starting to figure this out as well.
 
KenaiPhoenix said:
hopefully a new participant will break the status quo and bring something good at the table.
Click to expand...
I can see a console (hybrid console) for use on monitors on the horizon. Console-like look but compatible with a non-qwert gaming keyboard.
 
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MicTyson said:
There is no point in the hardware side of things anymore. Well, maybe the handhelds. They benefit nothing to release a machine to play these games exclusively than to just sell them on all consoles. Microsoft and Sony are starting to figure this out as well.
Click to expand...
This is definitely where the trend seems to be but maybe there will be a revitalization of exclusives and consoles. Things shake up industries now and then and change trends.
 
Sorry OP but due to Segata Sanshiro demise no Sega console will ever be produced again.
What would be the point ?
The only guy manly enough to use a hypothetical Dreamcast 2 at full potential is gone and he will sadly never come back.
ps4 GIF
 
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Toots said:
Sorry OP but due to Segata Sanshiro demise no Sega console will ever be produced again.
What would be the point ?
The only guy manly enough to use a hypothetical Dreamcast 2 at full potential is gone and he will sadly never come back.
ps4 GIF
Click to expand...
 
Obviously, what would have been best was for Saturn to dominate the market, then today we'd have a "Saturn V" console. And unlike the PlayStation 5, we'd be thrilled to have this console the size of a small skyscraper.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
dreamcast just had windows ce support, which basically no dev used because performance sucked, and it wasnt even built into the console.
Click to expand...
While true performance wasn't always up to scratch, no Dreamcast contained any game OS, it was on the discs. (That's why we see the license window after the Dreamcast logo, this was the game os loading its libs etc…)

But we wouldn't have got some bangers ported if it wasn't for CE, even if performance wasn't 100% (as it wasn't really back then as a norm, we just forget that now a days)
 
Evil Calvin said:
Hot take:

Dreamcast was killed because the PS2 came out a year later and had a DVD drive included. Otherwise, the Dreamcast had better games in it's 2 year lifespan than the PS2 had in it's first two years.
Click to expand...

We also need to remember how few third party publishers released on Dreamcast.



I dont think I knew anyone IRL who chose the PS2 over DC, GC or Xbox because of native DVD support.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
dreamcast just had windows ce support, which basically no dev used because performance sucked, and it wasnt even built into the console.

xbox had a pretty strong sega library, and the duke controller kinda looks like an even chunkier dreamcast controller... but thats about it.
the xbox doesnt resemble a console sega would make, and the hardware's not a continuation of the dreamcast's--using a pentiumIII is very MS, not sega.
Click to expand...

It was actually used quite a bit. And yeah, most games that did sucked.

Sega Rally 2 for example was ported this way through the WinCE overhead and ran terrible. Tomb Raider 4 had awful framedrops too. RE2 ran through WinCE as well. And I think Bust a Move and more.

But it was nothing more than a loader on the disc. The DC hardware itself didn't have any of it. When you rip DC games, you can see when they have a WinCE.exe.

If I were to guess, it was there to make DC attractive to otherwise uninterested developers, they could simply port their Direct X versions unto it. This might be why Tomb Raider appeared there anyway. Soul Reaver though wasn't a Windows CE port and it was waaaay better.
 
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kevboard said:
well, 79 games used it out of 619. that's around 13% and included games made by Sega lol




the original design concept for the controller had a VMU slot. the final controller still had the 2 memory card/expansion slot design of the dreamcast.
the Xbox copied the button labels of the Dreamcast (but changed the colors around to be a bit more sensical).

Sega was also in talks with Microsoft about making the Xbox backwards compatible with the Dreamcast, but that ultimately fell through because Sega wanted online compatibility, and Microsoft didn't want a split online service, where Dreamcast games ran on a free one, while they had Xbox Live in the works.




the Sega Chihiro (2002)
Btdu43OkEA3Zpx9s.jpg


this baby ran, among others: House of the Dead 3, Virtua Cop 3, and a bunch of gundam games.
you can mod an Xbox to run Chihiro games. you need to solder in 128MB RAM and flash the bios of it tho.

also, the Dreamcast almost had a Voodoo 2 GPU. they ultimately chose an NEC GPU, but the Dreamcast almost had what was a popular PC GPU of the time.
and the PowerVR GPU it ended up with was also not really proprietary, just slightly modified, and had a PC equivalent part.
here's a Review of the PC card: https://vintage3d.org/neon.php#sthash.1mxjkh7P.dpbs
DirectX 6 compatible! only 2 DirectX versions behind the Xbox!

so the Dreamcast was absolutely the closest in terms of hardware design to the Xbox of any console in the late 90s and early 2000s. hence Microsoft creating Windows CE for easy PC ports... as it did use relatively mainstream hardware that had DirectX API compatibility, just like the Xbox
Click to expand...
ehh about half those 79 windows CE games are japan-only low budget games.
windows ce wasnt used much, and was often for slop.
sega barely touched it... they famously used it for sega rally 2, which sucked, and then.... a port of virtua cop 2, which was already on the saturn.
ta-da.

chunky boy duke definitely got inspiration from the dc controller (just look at it), but ms had been making pc controllers for a long time (e.g., sidewinder, predating the dreamcast) using the same button labels.

"almost got a voodoo2" yeah, but that's also being a bit generous. for the upcoming dreamcast, the american team recommended an american chip (voodoo), while the japanese team recommended a japanese chip... knowing sega mgmt at the time, their final choice isnt surprising (of course, to be fair, there was a contract with 3dfx that was taken to court, so the american team was serious about voodoo... but the japanese office always wins).

and the chichiro came after the xbox's release, and is basically an xbox... and comes after sega was out of the hardware game. when sega was in control of its console hardware and building arcade boards, they werent using pc stuff.

also important to remember this was all happening with sega's financials shitting the bed (basically everything post-saturn), they were using whatever they could, and in a calculated retreat--the dreamcast's development was considered a departure from norms due to financial constraints.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
ehh about half those 79 windows CE games are japan-only low budget games.
windows ce wasnt used much, and was often for slop.
sega barely touched it... they famously used it for sega rally 2, which sucked, and then.... a port of virtua cop 2, which was already on the saturn.
ta-da.

chunky boy duke definitely got inspiration from the dc controller (just look at it), but ms had been making pc controllers for a long time (e.g., sidewinder, predating the dreamcast) using the same button labels.

"almost got a voodoo2" yeah, but that's also being a bit generous. for the upcoming dreamcast, the american team recommended an american chip (voodoo), while the japanese team recommended a japanese chip... knowing sega mgmt at the time, their final choice isnt surprising (of course, to be fair, there was a contract with 3dfx that was taken to court, so the american team was serious about voodoo... but the japanese office always wins).

and the chichiro came after the xbox's release, and is basically an xbox... and comes after sega was out of the hardware game. when sega was in control of its console hardware and building arcade boards, they werent using pc stuff.

also important to remember this was all happening with sega's financials shitting the bed (basically everything post-saturn), they were using whatever they could, and in a calculated retreat--the dreamcast's development was considered a departure from norms due to financial constraints.
Click to expand...

oh yeah, the Sidewinder was also directly inspired by Sega controllers tho.

the Chihiro I threw in just as a little joke tbh,
the point however stands that Sega made a console with relatively off the shelf parts. modified version of a CPU that was used in automotive stuff, and a modified GPU that also had a PC equivalent. this disproves the claim that Sega wouldn't make a console like the Xbox. the Xbox was the natural evolution of the Dreamcast in nearly every way... if Microsoft stuck with the original VMU concept it would have been even more on the nose.

2KoMfftlqSQJy8b9.jpg


the DC is the closest in terms of hardware design to the Xbox of any Gen6 console. a direct X compatible GPU for easy ports (if it was used not is not the point, the idea was there), no other system other than the Dreamcast and Xbox had such a GPU at the time.
both the GameCube and the PS2 had essentially fully bespoke hardware, the Dreamcast and Xbox didn't.
 
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Assuming the PS5 is equivalent to an RX 6700 as shown by Digital Foundry and the PS5 Pro to an RX 7700 XT.
PS6 to an RTX 5080, What could be the GPU of a hypothetical Dreamcast 2?
And if it were weaker (meaning a worse version of all multiplatform games), would you still buy it?

relative-performance-3840-2160.png
 
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