Donkey Kong Bananza |OT| Red Faction Gorilla

A game can be innovative AND iterative, as evidenced by DK Bananza. Nintendo does things differently and have a certain touch, but some of their franchises (like Animal Crossing) really could use more innovating at this point. Let's not derail too much though.
 
Variahunter said:
Nintendo fans demands constant innovation ??
No most of them just gobble up whatever Nintendo give them.
But yes, Nintendo innovates a lot of times for their main series.

Metroid Prime 4 has absolutely zero innovations, yet every Nintendo fan is hyped.

I'm one of the biggest Metroid fan here (my pseudo comes from it), but come on, a fourth entry in the prime series ? They couldn't think of anything else to innovate with the gameplay ? 3rd person Metroid has so much potential…

Kirby (how many 2D episodes before the 3D one ?), Fire Emblem, Metroid, Splatoon, Mario Party, Mario (all Sports really), Pokémon, Pikmin, Hyrule Warriors, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Xenoblade…

Most of those series keep iterating on the same basis. I don't mind it at all most of the time, but to say that Nintendo fans are more demanding about innovation… well no. They're just happy it is there when it's there. Otherwise they will buy the same licence they cherish from their childhood, or they're just kids who just want fun. And that's fine.

But MP4 just seems boring. I've played that gameplay 4 times already (yes the one on DS too), so I don't really care. I'll buy it because it's Metroid and I don't want it to flop so it'll be forgotten again.
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MP4 has yet to be released and also, you don't know how the psychic powers work. Plus, it's been like 17 years since the last one so I'm not complaining. I also think that Nintendo tried something new with the Namco version and it didn't work.

Kirby 3D came out, which was fresh.
Splatoon is now trying something new with Raiders was announced.
Wonder gave a new spin on the 2D.
Odyssey gave something fresh on 3D.

And yes, some franchises will be similar. Creative is not easy.
 
Tg89 said:
Finished up the main story this morning. Fantastic from beginning to end. I left myself a lot of bananas to go back to. I'm not a completionist so we'll see if I 100% it, but I'll definitely be getting a bunch more.

Absolutely loved the ending stretch of the game, so many nods to the Rare DKC trilogy. My favourite being the fakeout at the end ala DKC1, with the Kremling Kredits rolling and then leading to another K. Rool fight in NDC no less.
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Ending sequence was so good. What crazy is that I realized
that the skeleton enemies you were fighting up until that K. Rool reveal were DKC enemies in skelly form. Like Crokoids, etc, just skeleton Kremlings.
 
ADiTAR said:
MP4 has yet to be released and also, you don't know how the psychic powers work. Plus, it's been like 17 years since the last one so I'm not complaining. I also think that Nintendo tried something new with the Namco version and it didn't work.

Kirby 3D came out, which was fresh.
Splatoon is now trying something new with Raiders was announced.
Wonder gave a new spin on the 2D.
Odyssey gave something fresh on 3D.

And yes, some franchises will be similar. Creative is not easy.
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We've seen Psychic Powers and it's nothing more than new powers that brings nothing new to the Metroid formula. Would you Super Metroid was innovative because it introduced Samus run and Speed booster ? No. MP3 was innovative with the motion gaming, and MP Hunters with the touch gaming. But other than that it was exactly the same core formula. You could perfectly play MP3 without the motion gaming.
In MP4, Samus plays exactly the same as in previous episodes. Perfect iteration exemple in fact. Just change the environment, scenario, and new powers that you can only use where the game designer decided it. It's inconsequential to the gameplay, and to the series in general, and we probably will never see it in the future.

Kirby => I specifically adressed how many 2d episodes we had before the 3D one. And how the 3D one was innovative ? It was just a basic isometric platformer.
Splatoon is trying something FOR the franchise. It's absolutely not innovative per say. And after 3 iterations that were barely new episodes and could have been expansions, to be frank.
Wonder just had a power which change the environment. Come on, I agree that's it fun, and a change of pace, but it's not innovative.
Odyssey was fresh with all the new powers yes.

DK is innovative in a sense that destroying environments has not been used very much in games, and almost never in platformers which must make it very difficult to design. It's innovative because it'll probably define how the new episodes of DK will play, like the first Metroid Prime did with puzzles and scanning in first person would be a footprint for the others episodes, or like Zelda BotW and TotK.
 
Variahunter said:
We've seen Psychic Powers and it's nothing more than new powers that brings nothing new to the Metroid formula. Would you Super Metroid was innovative because it introduced Samus run and Speed booster ? No. MP3 was innovative with the motion gaming, and MP Hunters with the touch gaming. But other than that it was exactly the same core formula. You could perfectly play MP3 without the motion gaming.
In MP4, Samus plays exactly the same as in previous episodes. Perfect iteration exemple in fact. Just change the environment, scenario, and new powers that you can only use where the game designer decided it. It's inconsequential to the gameplay, and to the series in general, and we probably will never see it in the future.

Kirby => I specifically adressed how many 2d episodes we had before the 3D one. And how the 3D one was innovative ? It was just a basic isometric platformer.
Splatoon is trying something FOR the franchise. It's absolutely not innovative per say. And after 3 iterations that were barely new episodes and could have been expansions, to be frank.
Wonder just had a power which change the environment. Come on, I agree that's it fun, and a change of pace, but it's not innovative.
Odyssey was fresh with all the new powers yes.

DK is innovative in a sense that destroying environments has not been used very much in games, and almost never in platformers which must make it very difficult to design. It's innovative because it'll probably define how the new episodes of DK will play, like the first Metroid Prime did with puzzles and scanning in first person would be a footprint for the others episodes, or like Zelda BotW and TotK.
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Based on your examples given, I'd say your standards for how much the formula should change are too high.

Sometimes the formula will only go from Mario World to Yoshi's Island. It can't be from Gamecube to Wii every time. That's just unrealistic. It sounds like you expect a new way to control the game, even when/if that control doesn't make a substantial difference to the game in your own opinion, just for the sake of novelty and nothing else? (They added that anyway with mouse).

Maybe the new stuff is in the actual, you know, game itself instead of HOW it's being played. Can't we go back to focusing on the design of things like maps and enemies and shit for once? The actual content we're getting instead of some OMG ITS NEW gimmick?
 
What controller is everyone using? Also do most of you play docked/handheld? I started with Switch 1 Pro but moved to S2 Joycons, much better experience with enhanced Rumble. Docked %100 of the time.
 
Golgo 13 said:
What controller is everyone using? Also do most of you play docked/handheld? I started with Switch 1 Pro but moved to S2 Joycons, much better experience with enhanced Rumble. Docked %100 of the time.
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S2 pro controller has best rumble and I like games best on a big screen but it's fantastic in handheld mode too (if you have a grip because you want to be ergonomic for tight platforming).
 
To be fair, Nintendo did play it safe or underwhelming with a decent number of original Switch games, at least IMO. Splatoon 1 was a brilliant game but the 2nd and 3rd mostly spun their wheels. Salmon Run was great but I'm racking my brain even trying to figure out what vanilla Splatoon 3 brought to the table. AC: New Horizons had a ton of stuff cut from New Leaf. FE Engage came and went, Yoshi was dull, the Pokemon games had all sorts of problems, and the less said about the Mario sports games the better.

But then they release a Tears of the Kingdom or Kirby Forgotten Land or Bananza or Mario Kart World (this game is awesome and I won't hear otherwise), and all is forgiven as I remember how talented these developers are at their best.
 
Variahunter said:
Nintendo fans demands constant innovation ??
No most of them just gobble up whatever Nintendo give them.
But yes, Nintendo innovates a lot of times for their main series.

Metroid Prime 4 has absolutely zero innovations, yet every Nintendo fan is hyped.

I'm one of the biggest Metroid fan here (my pseudo comes from it), but come on, a fourth entry in the prime series ? They couldn't think of anything else to innovate with the gameplay ? 3rd person Metroid has so much potential…

Kirby (how many 2D episodes before the 3D one ?), Fire Emblem, Metroid, Splatoon, Mario Party, Mario (all Sports really), Pokémon, Pikmin, Hyrule Warriors, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Xenoblade…

Most of those series keep iterating on the same basis. I don't mind it at all most of the time, but to say that Nintendo fans are more demanding about innovation… well no. They're just happy it is there when it's there. Otherwise they will buy the same licence they cherish from their childhood, or they're just kids who just want fun. And that's fine.

But MP4 just seems boring. I've played that gameplay 4 times already (yes the one on DS too), so I don't really care. I'll buy it because it's Metroid and I don't want it to flop so it'll be forgotten again.
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I personally hope MP4 has minimal "big" changes and just gets back to the roots of the first, which to me is an all timer.

that said this is a weird take given we haven't really seen much from the game. people were saying DK was "a game entirely about digging" until about 2 weeks before release.

MP3 also had quite a few "innovations" in the context of the overall series. For the worst, mind you, but they were there.
 
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Variahunter said:
In MP4, Samus plays exactly the same as in previous episodes.
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We've barely seen anything of the game (basically the first hour if even that) and we know this isn't true. She has new dash mechanics, including forward, backward and air dashes. The mouse controls are also new, obviously. I'm not sure why we're even talking about MP4 here.
 
To those who have rolled credits, do you think this is GOTY? I realize this is subject to change. I've even heard the postgame changed opinions from great to amazing so sounds like you gotta see everything to form a full opinion.
 
MSduderino said:
Seems slightly easier than the cap throw and bounce off it from SM odyssey but still hard
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I'd say it's harder, more inputs required. In Odyssey the cap jump was basically throw your cap, then dive into it and you were good to go. The inputs were B, Y, ZL+Y (keep pressing Y) and the jump was automatic. In Bananza the long jump shown in the video is ZR, ZL, mashing Y, A, ZL, Y, A, Y, ZL.

The thing that's really fantastic with Bananza though is that there's more ways to cross large gaps than the method shown here, personally I loved doing spin jumps with a chunk and then double tapping ZL, swinging, jumping and ending with a clap stall in midair and a punch roll.
 
MSduderino said:
To those who have rolled credits, do you think this is GOTY? I realize this is subject to change. I've even heard the postgame changed opinions from great to amazing so sounds like you gotta see everything to form a full opinion.
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I just finished Layer 900, I still have a lot more game left but so far easily one of my favourite game this year.
 
MSduderino said:
To those who have rolled credits, do you think this is GOTY? I realize this is subject to change. I've even heard the postgame changed opinions from great to amazing so sounds like you gotta see everything to form a full opinion.
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So far, easily. I'm still going through the post-game but I've been hooked like an addict all the way throughout.
 
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This is definitely my goty and I'm not even that far in (resort now). Finished both E33 and KCD2, which are my prefered genre RPG, but DK is just... enormously fun. Only thing is could complain about is the camera now and then, but it doesn't even bother me since the rest of the game is just so good. Didn't expect to like this so much at all after the first reveal, which was underwhelming and not doing the game justice at all imo.
 
Alright fuck this game, the post-game is making me HATE it, especially those challenge battles. At least give us some checkpoints you fucktards, whose bright idea was it to make us go all the way from the start when you fail, when half of those battles feel like a dice roll?!

GOTY my ASS

/rant
 
darth.shrimp said:
Alright fuck this game, the post-game is making me HATE it, especially those challenge battles. At least give us some checkpoints you fucktards, whose bright idea was it to make us go all the way from the start when you fail, when half of those battles feel like a dice roll?!

GOTY my ASS

/rant
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It is annoying. Why did it need a time limit if it's supposed to be an endurance against enemies?
 
darth.shrimp said:
Alright fuck this game, the post-game is making me HATE it, especially those challenge battles. At least give us some checkpoints you fucktards, whose bright idea was it to make us go all the way from the start when you fail, when half of those battles feel like a dice roll?!

GOTY my ASS

/rant
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Nintendo cares deeply about HARDCORE players. Nobody can ever complain about difficulty because after the whole game is over there is some cheaply hard stuff tacked on.
 
As a wee robot I always dreamed about playing a game that would let you control a monkey who could turn into an ostrich.

simon-cowell-gif-youre-awesome-the-x-factor-happy-sigh.gif
 
Tg89 said:
I personally hope MP4 has minimal "big" changes and just gets back to the roots of the first, which to me is an all timer.

that said this is a weird take given we haven't really seen much from the game. people were saying DK was "a game entirely about digging" until about 2 weeks before release.

MP3 also had quite a few "innovations" in the context of the overall series. For the worst, mind you, but they were there.
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I'm on layer 900 and yes, it's mostly a digging game. It's not a bad loop, but it what it is.
 
Aldric said:
We've barely seen anything of the game (basically the first hour if even that) and we know this isn't true. She has new dash mechanics, including forward, backward and air dashes. The mouse controls are also new, obviously. I'm not sure why we're even talking about MP4 here.
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Dash mechanic has been in the series since the first Prime. I don't see how dashing forward and backwards would change the gameplay. It's a nice little addition, but it won't change much to the gameplay, and all the promo materials have shown this.

I guess we're talking about MP4 because I responded to a person saying that Nintendo fans had higher expectations and needed to be surprised by every new game Nintendo made, although the hype for MP4 is high there's almost zero innovation in it.

I don't mind iterations, I mean I love Souls series. But after DS3 I could feel the fatigue and the need to change the formula a bit. Elden Ring was great by expanding the world and adding some new mechanics like crouch, jump etc... It was basically the same formula, but adding much more freedom and possibilities so it felt fresh.

I guess, MP4 needed more than what we saw in promo materials. I don't know, maybe a new 3rd person shoulder camera mode, expanded locations, Samus being much more agile, maybe more destructible terrain. I don't know, but I feel the formula is stale as it is, and need a bigger shake than what has been shown so far, especially returning after almost 20 years.

I'm not here to antagonize people or anything, I'm just a bit disapointed, being a Metroid fan.
 
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Variahunter said:
I don't see how dashing forward and backwards would change the gameplay.
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Well that's your problem then. I like how you removed the air dashes, very slick. Obviously it changes the gameplay especially since one of the main criticisms of Prime compared to the 2D entries was Samus lack of mobility. If you add more movement options to her basic toolset then it changes the way combat and traversal feels at a fundamental level. It also points towards more changes down the line once she acquires more powerups. Anyway I'll stop here since this is off topic and you're obviously a disingenuous shitposter.
 
I'm just about done with 100% on all the rehearsals

I'm a little surprised that people are complaining that it's unfairly difficult. I thought they were a nice challenge, but nothing too crazy. I had to do Zebra a few times but other than it wasn't too bad. Definitely much more difficult than everything before it but doable.

If you're hitting a wall on one of the rehearsals, you might need to take a step back and change how you're approaching it
 
taylor34 said:
I think Nintendo fans are just less demanding honestly in general (which is part of why they've been so successful). You retitle this game something generic and put it on ps5 or xbox and it would probably do 1/10th of the sales.

Hi-Fi Rush came out a few years ago, was $29 at launch. Similar kind of game but with higher production values and to me more fun than this game (but it's close). That's probably the closest example I can give of a game where it was priced much lower, same style of game, but high production levels.

I'm not saying they have to be Final Fantasy, but the PS5 Ratchet and Clank and Hi-Fi Rush kill this game in the story/production value part without being too long with it. Unfortunately Ratchet and Clank isn't that great to play (in my opinion) but at least it has some sort of storyline.

I'm talking to the wrong crowd I know and you'll continue to piss on me, I'm just giving my opinion on this, which is I wish Nintendo would take cues from other people for their games. The fact that Pauline actually speaks is a step in the right direction which is what I want more of...like all the big kongs should have had spoken voices, all the major bad guys, etc. Give them more personality. The reaction so far to my comments indicates that maybe you all want Pauline to be text only and gibberish like everyone else and that would improve the game, whereas I'm saying I'd prefer it if they'd expand it to all major characters.
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Personally I liked that DK doesn't talk, that Pauline has a voice, and the Bananza Elders spoke in their gibberish voices. I would not change a single thing about the execution of the VA in this game, I simply liked it.

The only game I'm confident you have actually played here is Ratchet and Clank. There is a strong sense of wanting alternatives to look better, cherry picking aspects you can play up like story and voice acting, and falling over your own lack of experience with the material. Strong liklihood Youtube was involved, but the difference between DK and HF was less apparent without holding a controller.
 
I just started playing but today stopped earlier and was about to open a book to relax (game is a bit overstimulating, gonna admit) but decided to open it again after a MKW round and just so casually and randomly fell in the boss room while digging to see what I'd find and defeated him lol, it felt like if I broke the sequence or something, hilarious.
 
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digdug2 said:
I couldn't disagree more about the world art styles being "fugly". The sublayers are bright, super colorful, and vibrant- but most importantly, they are fun to traverse. I love the amount of environment destructibility and that you can create tunnels to so many unexpected areas. It's a fantastic sandbox.
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I get easily overstimulated by the visuals and have to stop for real, so basically it's color direction feels like "a little too much" for some people, like when you put too much sugar in your coffee
 
Kataploom said:
I get easily overstimulated by the visuals and have to stop for real, so basically it's color direction feels like "a little too much" for some people, like when you put too much sugar in your coffee
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For me personally I absolutely in love with its art style, i especially LOOOOOOVE DK's new design.
 
Salmon said:
Well. the soundtrack is my biggest letdown so far. I haven't heard a good song in this game yet.
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Yeah, unfortunately the music is wank. I wish there was an option to remove the music for the bananza transformations, because it is so offensively shit I often revert back to normal DK as soon as I've done whatever I needed the powerup for.
 
Aldric said:
Well that's your problem then. I like how you removed the air dashes, very slick. Obviously it changes the gameplay especially since one of the main criticisms of Prime compared to the 2D entries was Samus lack of mobility. If you add more movement options to her basic toolset then it changes the way combat and traversal feels at a fundamental level. It also points towards more changes down the line once she acquires more powerups. Anyway I'll stop here since this is off topic and you're obviously a disingenuous shitposter.
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I just forgot it, calm down.

It doesn't change the gameplay that much lmao. « On a fundamental level! », yeah right. Maybe if they implemented some melee combat, then there would be a point in dashing forward, and the dynamic of the fights would change. As it is right now ? No.
But to you dashing is probably the same change like going from Prime to Other M gameplay heh ?

But you're right, there is no point in arguing with your shit takes.

« Dashing completely change the gameplay !! » :messenger_tears_of_joy: Those takes man… Nintendo fanboys, please never change, some of you are a goldmine.
 
Kataploom said:
I get easily overstimulated by the visuals and have to stop for real, so basically it's color direction feels like "a little too much" for some people, like when you put too much sugar in your coffee
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I totally understand where you're coming from. There is a lot going on, plus the colors are pretty oversaturated.
 
BlackTron said:
I think handheld mode helps with this a lot in this game.
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Nah I only play Docked, but I'm curious as to how it helps?

digdug2 said:
I totally understand where you're coming from. There is a lot going on, plus the colors are pretty oversaturated.
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And to make it worse, the game is pretty addictive and cathartic when breaking stuff so I'm left with overstimulation but wanting more at the same time after a time but while still feeling overstimulated lol

I mean, it's weird that this happens since I love colorful cartoon/anime stuff a lot, I think so far the second level was the best because it didn't make feel that way.
 
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