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Larian Studios is dropping AI usage: "we’ve decided to refrain from using genAI tools during concept art development.”
TheAnt
Neo Member
I am not sure if we can so easily classify training an AI model on publically available data as stealing. The jury's still out on that.
I would say it's not fair, to be able to teach something to copy you so well, so quickly, but that's not the same as stealing.
That would still count as having AI generated content in the game, which Larian says will not be present.
TheAnt
Neo Member
Personally, if someone didn't pour their blood, sweat and tears into something, I immediately don't find it as valuable. Talking about art of course.
I could be listening to a band, really liking their music, but if someone then revealed to me that it's actually AI generated music completely, I would stop listening. I just can't enjoy something knowing anyone could have made it in an hour, and can make 30 more if they feel like it.
xrnzaaas
Member
The problem with using AI during concept art phase is that it'll generate content based on what it's consumed. So even if the actual concept artist won't continue their work on AI-generated art and create something of their own they're still going to be inspired by it, meaning their creativity will be limited. It can be even worse if the execs like some of the AI art presented to them and force the artist to prepare something in a similar style - you are losing the originality factor in the creative process. Now I know that during the creative process it's not possible to keep coming up with brand new things, but at least as an artist you're the one picking where you're taking your inspirations from.
If Larian is so keen on reminding everyone they've got so many artists on board (and hiring new!), then maybe allow their creativity to run free? They can afford it.
If Larian is so keen on reminding everyone they've got so many artists on board (and hiring new!), then maybe allow their creativity to run free? They can afford it.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Once again, gamers show just how clueless they are about the game development process, and how they are always ready to pounce on something anything to bitch about.
This mother fucker just said we won't use any Ai generated content and you people are still not happy. So what if they are using AI to improve their workflow. People have been doing that for decades. Everything that's been automated is technically AI. Every workflow. Process. Program that has ever been automated is being run by AI. Now they are using AI to generate those workflows to try and improve development times. We just had gta6 delay into its 9th year, i say maybe everyone needs to look at their workflow and see how they can make it more efficient.
Devs have been using procedural generation to create assets for well over a decade now. They literally just copy paste and boom trees and foliage are populated. No one sits there drawing hundreds of miles of terrain and forests. No one draws on a canvas or storyboard either. Everything is drawn on computers nowadays and imported quietly ever touching a canvas. Should we bring back scanners?
I draw the line at dialogue, voice acting, and asset generation. But if they can make mocap faster or use AI generated voices before anyone is hired as placeholder then why the fuck not.
This mother fucker just said we won't use any Ai generated content and you people are still not happy. So what if they are using AI to improve their workflow. People have been doing that for decades. Everything that's been automated is technically AI. Every workflow. Process. Program that has ever been automated is being run by AI. Now they are using AI to generate those workflows to try and improve development times. We just had gta6 delay into its 9th year, i say maybe everyone needs to look at their workflow and see how they can make it more efficient.
Devs have been using procedural generation to create assets for well over a decade now. They literally just copy paste and boom trees and foliage are populated. No one sits there drawing hundreds of miles of terrain and forests. No one draws on a canvas or storyboard either. Everything is drawn on computers nowadays and imported quietly ever touching a canvas. Should we bring back scanners?
I draw the line at dialogue, voice acting, and asset generation. But if they can make mocap faster or use AI generated voices before anyone is hired as placeholder then why the fuck not.
Soodanim
Member
I always enjoy the irony of someone insulting someone's intelligence when they didn't even understand what some said to them.
I will add to his offer, by the way. AI generate a game on par with BG3, as you claim anyone can do, and I'll buy it for $100. Better yet, I'll buy a deluxe edition for $150.
While you're at it, make me a tailored suit.
Bark
Member
Sure, i will make you a suit. it will cost between 300 and 500 bucks, cause pockets and picking your color will cost extra. or you can have your ai try and make a suit that i would make.
Their latest announcement is that they will not be using A.I during the concept art process. But even if they were using A.I to quickly visualise different possible styles, there is an inherent contradiction in claiming that humans are both highly creative and limited to copying what they have seen! If human creativity rises above mere imitation then simply seeing an A.I generated picture should not stifle an artists' potential for invention.
In this regard it is the critics of A.I that seem to have the limited view of human potential.
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PeteBull
Member
I think majority of online harassment isnt done by actual gamers, instead its ppl working in the industry/their families doing it coz they finally understood no more crazy overpaid job for those slackers, avg gamer doesnt care at all or at least not to a point he would harass devstudio/a dev about it.
For devs/their family its totally different coz it means either layoff or salary reduction(or no raise for years which under current inflation is reduction actually)- thats defo enough motivation to harass ppl online, only if its highstakes for harasser too.
Just given my example im as hc as u could get and at the same time very antifeminist/antiwoke, still i wouldnt write once to a dev making woke game, i simply wont buy it if it reaches treshhold beyond what i can tolerate and laugh at it here on gaf or maybe post funny yt comment under game's trailer but thats it.
For devs/their family its totally different coz it means either layoff or salary reduction(or no raise for years which under current inflation is reduction actually)- thats defo enough motivation to harass ppl online, only if its highstakes for harasser too.
Just given my example im as hc as u could get and at the same time very antifeminist/antiwoke, still i wouldnt write once to a dev making woke game, i simply wont buy it if it reaches treshhold beyond what i can tolerate and laugh at it here on gaf or maybe post funny yt comment under game's trailer but thats it.
DavidGzz
Gold Member
It's like games that are digital only. There will always be a crowd shitting on a studio for something that will become the norm. Eventually every game will use it is some form.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Jesus who gives a shit if they use AI tools to help them concept ideas, no doubt all the work is being done by their artists/designers to speed up the process and once approved will be further worked on by human beings, gamers will literally complain about every fucking little thing, I want to see games get better and come out faster and no doubt AI will assist on that.
Technology moves on and people in certain industries either need to embrace it or retrain in other fields, you can't stop a rising tide and yelling at does nothing either..
I for one welcome all those fucking Indian sweatshop phonecall centers being put out of business by AI amongst others
Technology moves on and people in certain industries either need to embrace it or retrain in other fields, you can't stop a rising tide and yelling at does nothing either..
I for one welcome all those fucking Indian sweatshop phonecall centers being put out of business by AI amongst others
Knight of the Round
Member
"We don't want you to crunch your developers.
But we also don't want you to have ways of making their job easier and faster.
We want you to hire more people if you feel that you're not making your game fast enough.
But we also don't want to pay 100 bucks for a single game."
Zero sympathy for Larian. When you cater to the Karens, you'll get backlash whenever you do anything going against their narrative.
But we also don't want you to have ways of making their job easier and faster.
We want you to hire more people if you feel that you're not making your game fast enough.
But we also don't want to pay 100 bucks for a single game."
Zero sympathy for Larian. When you cater to the Karens, you'll get backlash whenever you do anything going against their narrative.
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Sentenza
Member
Well, of course, They aren't retarded, in the end.
They just gave people the equivalent of a "Sure, whatever you say. You're the boss. Stop crying about it now".
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The pearl-clutchers over crunch are the worst. Its so obviously fake outrage usually to cover them having an axe to grind against a studio, publisher, person etc. Its particularly mental because there are countless other production/manufacturing chains that place similar perfirmance stresses on their workforce and yet you never see the same level of concern trolling.
hyperbertha
Member
I disagree. The final product as art can only be enjoyed if there is the human element behind it. Would you read a novel that is entirely written by ai? I wouln't. What's the point? There is no human experience behind it. Its completely inauthentic. The exact same logic applies to every artform. I wouldn't want to look at art that is mostly created by AI, no matter the medium. Its kinda the same logic for sport. We already have machines that can do every physical activity waay better than humans, yet we still watch weightlifting, combat sport etc.
hyperbertha
Member
No. Stop coping. And no, artists aint gonna be out of a job any time soon, loser.
Knight of the Round
Member
So if tomorrow you hear a catchy song you really like, then later learn it was fully made with A.I., you will immediately dislike it? Or stop listening to it?
Angel of BOOM!
Member
Is this horse armour all over again...?
Knight of the Round
Member
I think this is much worse, because not having horse armor wouldn't make any developer's work more difficult. At least, directly.
hyperbertha
Member
I will lose 90 percent of the emotional enjoyment I gain out of it. It will probably still activate the pleasure centers in my brain.
Fabieter
Member
Who cares. I bet most people complaining use ai for their jobs as well. Its just a normal internet crash out for no reason like most of the time.
Knight of the Round
Member
For me, it wouldn't matter. I don't listen to music to understand or guess or experience the experiences/emotions of the musician/drummer/guitarist. I listen to music so that the symphony/melody/sound can evoke emotions from me. I have listened to numerous A.I. songs, made my own, and I have quite a few now on my daily music list.
I couldn't care less about people losing their shit over things that don't really affect them. I am bothered by people - time and again - catering to the mob. I hate this aspect of social media so much.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
IMO, it heavily depending amount of AI use. If they used AI to help actually write then no.
If they used it for say grammar or sentence structure checking, bounce back ideas an evaluate writing passages fine. If they are using AI to generate writing, it ain't art.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Because there is an emotional component to art as well. Reading AI generated material isn't art, it's reading slop, no matter how good it is.
What the hell is the point to human creativity if it's all AI generated shit. There is only so much time in life, I would rather use that time on something else then.
And yes, I use LLMs daily at work, but I am not claiming it's art when generating code, PowerPoint slides or documentation.
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Larian, stfu and focus on your game. Why the fuck do they keep talking on social media about shit.
geary
Member
They had an AMA on reddit about Divinity and idiots come with AI questions instead of the game and they could not let them unanswered because they would had open another can of worms.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
That was stupid of them. It's not like they need the marketing/attention.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
I think AI should be limited because it takes away too many jobs away, the cost is too high, but I can't see a rational argument against it not being art.
It's just made differently. If you go back 60 years, they would tell you that any music made today is fake music because it's not exclusively made on instruments.
You can't enjoy this?
rm082e
Gold Member
hyperbertha
Member
I really can't enjoy that picture. It looks messy as hell and makes no sense. Its just randomness. But even the later new ones, that are coherent, are just not doing it for me. I guess because I know there is no human imagination or intent behind it. There's nothing to connect to. No boundaries being explored. No effort generic lack of imagination. Just a pretty picture. Your music analogy doesn't work. Music today is still 100 percent made by the artist. And you didn't answer my question about the novel. Would you read a fully AI written novel?I think AI should be limited because it takes away too many jobs away, the cost is too high, but I can't see a rational argument against it not being art.
It's just made differently. If you go back 60 years, they would tell you that any music made today is fake music because it's not exclusively made on instruments.
You can't enjoy this?
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
If the novel is good I would read it, but I don't think they can make a full novel without the AI taint just yet, but they can with pictures.
In the past, instruments needed skill to be used, and producing sounds with programs would be seen as anti-music by many, unnatural.
neo raider
Neo Member
If it has ai
I ai'nt buying
I ai'nt buying
reinking
Gold Member
Good luck. AI is going to be touching all media, not just video games. None of us are going to be able to stop it from happening. My hope is that it will be used in the way Larian is saying that they will be using it. I hope we do not see a widespread use of it becoming the writers, artist, animators, programmers and other talented positions. If you are against AI in media, you have already lost. You just have not accepted it. Yet.
General Lee
Member
Trying to cater to online mobs will never end positively. You give them an inch, they'll say it's not enough and demand a mile. No sane studio out there will disavow AI tools in their development. It won't even matter if you didn't use AI, people won't believe you and will point to any slightly off artwork. That's how witch hunts like these have always worked. Engaging with people who come in bad faith is a fool's errand.
HallowedFeast
Neo Member
So your argument to convince people that AI is good was to post one of the worst-looking paintings you could find?I think AI should be limited because it takes away too many jobs away, the cost is too high, but I can't see a rational argument against it not being art.
It's just made differently. If you go back 60 years, they would tell you that any music made today is fake music because it's not exclusively made on instruments.
You can't enjoy this?
Knight of the Round
Member
semiconscious
Member
so there'll be like this big, disgusting splotch right in front?...
Hugare
Member
I bet that you wouldn't even notice that they have used AI for concept art in the final game.
So who fucking cares? It's not like they are adding completely AI generated art into the game. And even then, if it looks good, I don't care.
People should stop caring about how the sausage gets made and start caring about judging the final product instead
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Because AI is not sentient.... As simple as that.