Clearly they didn't know what was happening, or they would have realized they were never going to make it to Hilltop.
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The Walking Dead Season 6, Part 2 Sundays on AMC
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Clearly they didn't know what was happening, or they would have realized they were never going to make it to Hilltop.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
They certainly did at one point (hence why they got out of the RV), but they still tried because - as I already said - they needed to get Maggie to the hilltop.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
Neegan made the ultimate mistake of showing Rick his face, now Rick knows what he looks like. Also, what was up with Gabriel at the beginning, he was so serious and focused, definitely a changed man. The people who helped out Morgan and Carol, I wonder who they are? Armor, horses and a willingness to help strangers is very interesting.
Pretty convinced it was Eugene that got the bat, handing over the ammo factory plans and saying goodbyes might make it too obvious though. If it is him, I can't wait for Abraham to get some sweet RPG revenge.
Pretty convinced it was Eugene that got the bat, handing over the ammo factory plans and saying goodbyes might make it too obvious though. If it is him, I can't wait for Abraham to get some sweet RPG revenge.
Ultra Numb
Member
Comic Spoilers:
Is this the quote?
Scott Gimple: Reading the book now and reading Negan as a character, I'm like, "Damn, there's so much to do before we get to him!" One of my favorite issues with him recently was the Carl/Negan issue. I think it'd be such an amazing episode of TV, but we have a lot to do before we get there.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/walking-dead-season-4-new-characters-1067811/
This one was taken during the build up to S4, before it started airing.
Scott Gimple: Reading the book now and reading Negan as a character, I'm like, "Damn, there's so much to do before we get to him!" One of my favorite issues with him recently was the Carl/Negan issue. I think it'd be such an amazing episode of TV, but we have a lot to do before we get there.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/walking-dead-season-4-new-characters-1067811/
This one was taken during the build up to S4, before it started airing.
This.
GruntOfAction
Member
Unfortunately the audio is from the leaked one and not the one that aired, so they could've changed things up a bit.
Future PhaZe
Member
I really don't understand why people get so upset over this stuff
I was on the edge of my seat and was like "damn...oh ok well should make for an explosive premier."
I also found the first person blow to feel more personal than it otherwise might have been. Also I think the show runner has confirmed that it will be shown in its full brutality in the premier.
I'm actually not looking forward to it.
I was on the edge of my seat and was like "damn...oh ok well should make for an explosive premier."
I also found the first person blow to feel more personal than it otherwise might have been. Also I think the show runner has confirmed that it will be shown in its full brutality in the premier.
I'm actually not looking forward to it.
DXLelouch153
Banned
it has to be Glenn
Maggie wouldnt shout that loud for anyone else but her husband
which means Season 6 redeemed?
i hope?
Maggie wouldnt shout that loud for anyone else but her husband
which means Season 6 redeemed?
i hope?
Ultra Numb
Member
Agreed.
I loved that small interaction with Steven Ogg's character. Steven brings so much life to such a minor character and I'm much more impressed with him then I am with Dwight.
People have invested hours, tuned in weekly and watched the buildup to Negan. He is introduced as several of our protagonists are kneeled before him as he shows them how in over their heads they truly are, menacingly brandishing a barbed-wire bat while taunting them. To top this off he randomly chooses which one he will brutally murder. The audience is waiting with horrified, bated breath as he treats this like a game...his choice is made...the person is dead. See you in 6 months to learn who that person is.
Do you see how unsatisfying that is for people that have so much invested in this product? Whichever person(s) made this decision are forcing a buzz at the expense of alienating their fanbase. It's even worse for people that have read the source material because you see the murder and victim and then are left feeling however they felt as you wait for the next issue to see how the group copes and retaliates.
It's irritating, frustrating, and left me feeling hollow as opposed to the feverish excitement they probably wanted from me.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Me neither. I cheated and looked at the comic version of it and... well it's not pretty. I don't see how they could go full out like that with the TV version and if they do I don't want to see it.
And I still love the ending, even though in the moment it feels like you're getting robbed. We all saw it coming though, right? None of us were so stupid to think they were going to kill a main character when Negan walked out with just 15 minutes left in the episode. When it cut to the first person I think you really got the full effect of the terror and helplessness the crew must have felt. It was powerful stuff and I'm glad they didn't.
tl;dr fuck da hatas
Are we sure it was Maggie? There were other women there too.
Either way I'm not buying that the screams will really tell us anything. I'm convinced they haven't figured out who it will be yet.
Future PhaZe
Member
I don't know how anyone could ever willingly follow Rick ever again after this though to be honest.
He should have volunteered himself for death for failing his people so hard.
He should have volunteered himself for death for failing his people so hard.
UnforgivenTwin
Member
The people who criticized the ending aren't "hatas". They have legitimate complaints about it. The entire back half of season 6 has been teasing Negan's entrance and we all knew that a big character death was coming and they decided to not show it,completely ruining the entire episode. Now, most people are just not going to care about it as much when we actually see who it is. It will just seem like the end of a long,unnecessary wait. Absolute bullshit on AMC's part.
Future PhaZe
Member
Has the show even teased Negans entrance? What happened to all the "we're all Negan" shit? Yes we could all assume that there was an actual Negan, but the show seemed to take pains not to lead people from that logic.
Can you imagine the group without Rick? Everyone, consciously or subconsiously, looks to him to lead. Glenn or Maggie are the only other people I could see that could step into that position if he were to die.
UnforgivenTwin
Member
You don't have people saying "we're all Negan" and not expect people to anticipate his arrival. Also,the leader of the men who got blown up by the RPG told them "Your property now belongs to Negan."
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Any time you see "fuck da hatas" you should understand that it's tongue in cheek. ;P
UnforgivenTwin
Member
Not all the time. But with the Internet,it's hard to tell sometimes
Future PhaZe
Member
Honestly, I'm looking at the whole group like they aint shit right now--there's not a one of them that isn't ready to go home and be a family man at this point
I'd honestly just kill Rick off now, time skip a few years forward with everyone having been giving Negan half their shit the whole time and recast a new lead as badass Carl who emerges as a god tier character.
I imagine Abraham would be a good leader (assuming he's not the one who got Lucilled). They need a hard-ass who doesn't take shit. Abe's biggest weakness might be that he's willing to put blind faith in someone like Eugene for the sake of a mission, but that was in the past and he seems like he has a clearer head after all he's been through.
We know in the comics, but not the tv show. It could be the same person in the comic but it could easily be someone else.
Cyborg
Member
Who dies in the comics?
Everyone is complacent because the group is strong and have been able to handle most threats with minimal losses compared to the people they took out. The goal for everyone is to actually have a life in this new world and not just live. Doesn't mean they can't step up and be a leader but there's only two real choices right now to me.
Please no, Carl is a little shit and I can't stand him. He makes BAD decisions in the show and comic.
Considering just a bit ago he was about to leave the group/run away I don't know. I don't know if he'd be able to stand down and bide his time, he seems too "let's do this shit" oriented, not a planner or decision maker but a man of action.
I honestly don't get the "we're all Negan" "I am Negan" stuff they did when the other groups they've seen didn't reference this. I'm guessing we'll get an explanation in S7.
They are going to spend the entire fucking episode mourning the dead character, even if it's Aaron. It's going to be terrible. That's the only reason I can give for them purposely not showing us who died in the finale, besides #whoisit twitter bullshit.
No.
Yep and in interviews all season they were telling us point-blank that a major character dies this season and then they don't deliver. It's manipulative horseshit.
They still could've done that even showing the death except now the audience doesn't get to mourn for 6 months.
The One and Done
Member
Moving this here since my thread got ModBot
The more time I have to reflect the more I both love and hate the way the season ended. I love Negan. Holy shit he's awesome already. I also now don't mind how it ended. But the more I think about it the more I contemplate better alternatives. Here's the best alternative IMO.
When Negan selects his victim it shouldnt have a first person view but instead pans around to reveal, for the sake of argument, Daryl (you can really insert any character. I'm going with most shocking choice). Negan then takes his first swing, cracking Daryls skull and they show the ENTIRE THING, all 7 or so swings as Daryls face at the end is a disfigured hole. The camera stays frozen on the face of Daryl the whole time with muffled and muted sounds for at least 10 straight seconds. It'd probably go down as the most gut wrenching death in tv history if done right.
At this point the audience would probably be in a pool of puke and tears. Now, as the he rest of the group screams and cries in terror (Rick is basically in a catatonic state), Negan wipes the guts off Lucille using the clothes on Daryls corpse and quips, "Shit! Now that was fun! I can see that he must have meant a lot to you all..." He looks down with a frown and pauses. The camera pans in close to Negans face as he paces back and forth a bit. He then stops, camera still fixed in his face and goes, "I'm so sorry." There is a long pause as the camera scans The Groups faces; Rick is gone, blank face, Maggie, Glenn, Rosita, Sasha, Eugene and Aaron are in tears, Michonne is petrified staring at Negan, Abraham is stone faced looking at Daryls body and Carl is peering at Negan, full of rage.
Negan then retorts, "Yup...I'm so sorry...but I just remembered...not only did you kill a shitload of my men, my scouts say you used a fucking rocket launcher to do it?!..." Negan starts laughing, very sarcastically, creepy yet menacing as he pops a toothpic in his mouth. We see the group again, completely broken, in tears, deflated and defeated. The camera is back in close on his face as he slows his laugh to a crawl, paces a bit, sighs, then says "Yup....that'll cost you double..." The camera then pans to a first person perspective as Negan turns and unleashes Lucille again. This time the screen cuts to black as you hear the subsequent swings.
Credits.
Not only would this have been a more satisfying finale but holy hell it would have been absolutely shocking. Just imagine the off season discussion. We'd be mourning Daryl and absolutely obsessed with who the other victim could be. THAT would be an acceptable cliffhanger. It also would have immediately made Negan the best villain on television without question. He takes out a fan favorite AND another main character? Fuck that'd be badass. And it would have made the episode one of the best finales ever and the perfect exclamation to a phenomenal season.
Just my thoughts after reflection.
So Gaf, what are your final thoughts on the finale? More importantly, how would you have done it?
The more time I have to reflect the more I both love and hate the way the season ended. I love Negan. Holy shit he's awesome already. I also now don't mind how it ended. But the more I think about it the more I contemplate better alternatives. Here's the best alternative IMO.
When Negan selects his victim it shouldnt have a first person view but instead pans around to reveal, for the sake of argument, Daryl (you can really insert any character. I'm going with most shocking choice). Negan then takes his first swing, cracking Daryls skull and they show the ENTIRE THING, all 7 or so swings as Daryls face at the end is a disfigured hole. The camera stays frozen on the face of Daryl the whole time with muffled and muted sounds for at least 10 straight seconds. It'd probably go down as the most gut wrenching death in tv history if done right.
At this point the audience would probably be in a pool of puke and tears. Now, as the he rest of the group screams and cries in terror (Rick is basically in a catatonic state), Negan wipes the guts off Lucille using the clothes on Daryls corpse and quips, "Shit! Now that was fun! I can see that he must have meant a lot to you all..." He looks down with a frown and pauses. The camera pans in close to Negans face as he paces back and forth a bit. He then stops, camera still fixed in his face and goes, "I'm so sorry." There is a long pause as the camera scans The Groups faces; Rick is gone, blank face, Maggie, Glenn, Rosita, Sasha, Eugene and Aaron are in tears, Michonne is petrified staring at Negan, Abraham is stone faced looking at Daryls body and Carl is peering at Negan, full of rage.
Negan then retorts, "Yup...I'm so sorry...but I just remembered...not only did you kill a shitload of my men, my scouts say you used a fucking rocket launcher to do it?!..." Negan starts laughing, very sarcastically, creepy yet menacing as he pops a toothpic in his mouth. We see the group again, completely broken, in tears, deflated and defeated. The camera is back in close on his face as he slows his laugh to a crawl, paces a bit, sighs, then says "Yup....that'll cost you double..." The camera then pans to a first person perspective as Negan turns and unleashes Lucille again. This time the screen cuts to black as you hear the subsequent swings.
Credits.
Not only would this have been a more satisfying finale but holy hell it would have been absolutely shocking. Just imagine the off season discussion. We'd be mourning Daryl and absolutely obsessed with who the other victim could be. THAT would be an acceptable cliffhanger. It also would have immediately made Negan the best villain on television without question. He takes out a fan favorite AND another main character? Fuck that'd be badass. And it would have made the episode one of the best finales ever and the perfect exclamation to a phenomenal season.
Just my thoughts after reflection.
So Gaf, what are your final thoughts on the finale? More importantly, how would you have done it?
Escape Goat
Member
The One and Done;200342320 said:
Ignored the comic plots a couple seasons ago.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
The One and Done™;200342320 said:
I like your ending, but I don't think AMC's going to kill a single major character, much less two.
It's been a while since we've had a big death on the show. Lori, Shane, Herschel, and Tyreese (arguably Beth too) are the biggest character deaths thus far, and none of them were fan favorites the way Daryl is. Unless Norman Reedus really wants off the show, I can't see AMC killing him off anytime soon.
Game of Thrones did that when they created the Sand Snakes storyline. They should've just stuck with the books. Be careful what you wish for.
Agreed. He was probably the biggest surprise of the finale. I expected Rick to off him before long but now I hope he gets more screen time than Dwight going forward.
Regarding the bold: yes, absolutely. And they delivered on that masterfully. This finale was all about Negan's entrance and the last day on earth for the once fearless Ricktator.
Regarding the underlined: unless you read the comic, then no. It was likely that there would be death, and there was, but it was never guaranteed.
Like many others have said, it is a damn shame that so many are focusing entirely on their outrage over the cliffhanger and completely overlooking one of the best character entrances ever presented.
The most evident example is when Jesus basically told Rick and crew that Negan is a guy who leads a group called the Saviors and when Hilltop met him he beat a 16 year old kid to death with Lucille to make his point "right off the bat."
Except the fact that, you know, no interview ever explicitly stated anything like that. I get that people are upset but at this point can't we just appreciate the finale for all the great moments that it did offer and give Gimple the benefit of the doubt to make the Lucille beat down just as impactful in the Season 7 premiere?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I think Michonne is the only non-obvious option that would have a devastating impact on Rick. But I don't think they have the balls to do it.
Doubt it'll be a woman, there'd be a backlash, especially Michonne.
I'm still saying it's either Daryl or Glenn since it was probably someone in the van because we were seeing their POV.
The chance a female or a kid character is brutalized via Lucille, is zero. AMC would never allow to show that on TV (and the directors already said that they will graphically show the execution on the premiere). We can all safely forget about it.
It was always about Daryl, Aaron, Abraham, Eugene or Glenn. But I'm personally counting that once Negan's arc is done, there are at least 1 or 2 more deaths. No way in hell they can defeat the Saviors without casualties.
As a side note, it did bother me that the bat looked so shiny and new (just like Negan's jacket). I can accept that he has people washing and cleaning his stuff, but it still didn't make any sense.
It was always about Daryl, Aaron, Abraham, Eugene or Glenn. But I'm personally counting that once Negan's arc is done, there are at least 1 or 2 more deaths. No way in hell they can defeat the Saviors without casualties.
As a side note, it did bother me that the bat looked so shiny and new (just like Negan's jacket). I can accept that he has people washing and cleaning his stuff, but it still didn't make any sense.
Soyongdori
Member
The Prison arc pretty much weeded out significant amount of major characters from S1-3. Expecting much more casualties with The Saviors arc.
Yeah. Otherwise, Negan would end up being a lesser antagonist.
I mean, if we are to believe his speech, they would have only lost 1 person if they had surrendered to himself on day 1. On the other side, the Governor executed Hershel, forced a direct fight between 2 communities with several casualties as result, shoot his own group, destroyed the Prison and forced Rick's group to split, which caused even more deaths.
I expect more, a lot more.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The only other POV shots were from within the van where Michonne (and others) were kept. Beyond that I feel it's the only shocking non obvious option that'd mean anything to Rick.
He's a fan favourite with the comic book readers for a reason, and it isn't because of how many he kills.
Ah. That sounds intriguing (guessing it has to do with his way of operating/thinking). Hope it delivers big time.
True, but statements like the following:
certainly make it seem that way, right? They didn't say it was happening in season 7. I'm more irritated about the way this happened and I'm much less forgiving after the MSF where they dangled Jessie and her family's deaths so weirdly.
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/walking-dead-season-6-spoilers-major-death-teased-greg-nicotero-501937
Exactly. He's a cocky, foul-mouthed, charismatic character in the comics --like if Ash from Evil Dead was an antagonist.
Overall, I think the show generally improves upon the main comic book antagonists. (i.e. Shane, Danny Trejo Governor, Cannibal Group, etc. )
The fact that many expect it not to be the same person as in the graphic novels, lead me to believe that they'll do exactly that. Give the fans what they don't expect.
Anyway, if "you know who" isn't the one that gets the bat, I'll be surprised. Given the earlier audio leak, it pretty much convinced me. What I would like to know, is why AMC didn't go with that version of the kill from the leak. If they had, there would be little question as to who was on the receiving end, and we wouldn't have to wonder who it was/wasn't. I don't even need to see the gory details (they can save that for the premiere if they want), but at least give us some indication on who is getting their head bashed in. Actually, just giving us a first-person POV while still allowing the point across (through the dialogue of the one being attacked, as well as those watching) could very well have been more effective than outright showing it.
This is great: Negan's Entrance (Comic vs Show Comparison) [Comic Spoilers]
For non-comic readers, all it reveals is the sex of the victim who gets a date with Lucille. Doesn't actually show the person's face or any other clues. It does reveal that the characters who are present and how the number of people on their knees is different from the TV show though.
I gotta say, I keep rewatching this legendary intro and the fact that JDM gave such a chilling, terrifying performance without one use of the word "fuck" is just something. Not to mention, from what I've read, he had less than a week to get in character and shoot the whole sequence before getting on a plane back to New York. Watching the Blu-ray version is gonna feel like a next level experience.
The best parts:
- Everything from "Hi. I'm Negan" to "What? No answer?" (basically perfection, couldn't imagine a better way to act out those lines)
- *turns and looks toward the camera* "I'm gonna beat the holy hell out of one of you" (SO fucking good... his voice is especially chilling here and in other moments)
- "This is Lucille. And she. is. awesome." (instantly sold on his affection for that bat)
- *looking at Abraham* "Hmph. Ugh, I gotta shave this shit." (I hope he meant that in a literal sense!)
- "First one's free. It's an emotional moment. I get it!" ( (Minor Comic Spoiler)
)
- "I simply cannot decide! ... I got an idea!" *pauses and stares are Rick with a smirk on his face* (the charisma with this guy is something special)
And I just have to say the camera shots, the wide angles, the lighting, the chilling music, etc. all came together so well to complete the scene. It definitely felt different from any other scene the show has filmed to date.
Fair enough, but most of the interviews I read with the EPs were emphasizing Negan's emergence and pushing the show in a not yet experienced direction with the culmination of Season 6. I'd be a little more annoyed if they were dropping lines like "it's a deadly/bloody finale" or "not everybody makes it" but they were only ever hinting at how dark and gut-wrenching it would be and even without showing the death it definitely was.
As for the S6 mid-season finale, what was the problem? Was it Sam's "Mom?" to end the half-season? I mean, the mid-season premiere still delivered on what everyone was anticipating.
For non-comic readers, all it reveals is the sex of the victim who gets a date with Lucille. Doesn't actually show the person's face or any other clues. It does reveal that the characters who are present and how the number of people on their knees is different from the TV show though.
I gotta say, I keep rewatching this legendary intro and the fact that JDM gave such a chilling, terrifying performance without one use of the word "fuck" is just something. Not to mention, from what I've read, he had less than a week to get in character and shoot the whole sequence before getting on a plane back to New York. Watching the Blu-ray version is gonna feel like a next level experience.
The best parts:
- Everything from "Hi. I'm Negan" to "What? No answer?" (basically perfection, couldn't imagine a better way to act out those lines)
- *turns and looks toward the camera* "I'm gonna beat the holy hell out of one of you" (SO fucking good... his voice is especially chilling here and in other moments)
- "This is Lucille. And she. is. awesome." (instantly sold on his affection for that bat)
- *looking at Abraham* "Hmph. Ugh, I gotta shave this shit." (I hope he meant that in a literal sense!)
- "First one's free. It's an emotional moment. I get it!" ( (Minor Comic Spoiler)
this legit put a smile on my face, best part that wasn't from the source material
- "I simply cannot decide! ... I got an idea!" *pauses and stares are Rick with a smirk on his face* (the charisma with this guy is something special)
And I just have to say the camera shots, the wide angles, the lighting, the chilling music, etc. all came together so well to complete the scene. It definitely felt different from any other scene the show has filmed to date.
Fair enough, but most of the interviews I read with the EPs were emphasizing Negan's emergence and pushing the show in a not yet experienced direction with the culmination of Season 6. I'd be a little more annoyed if they were dropping lines like "it's a deadly/bloody finale" or "not everybody makes it" but they were only ever hinting at how dark and gut-wrenching it would be and even without showing the death it definitely was.
As for the S6 mid-season finale, what was the problem? Was it Sam's "Mom?" to end the half-season? I mean, the mid-season premiere still delivered on what everyone was anticipating.
psynergylover
Member
sorry to hear that, I'd say to other pure show watchers; just watch out for anything WD related for 6 months, many people are probably flocking to the comics to at least see who died in this very scene
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