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[L4DANathan]

I say it depends on how you want to look at it. On a basic level, every single person on this planet is racist, if simply due to the fact that they can empathize with their own race, and can only sympathize with everyone else. Now, that alone only results in such a negligible level of racism as to not matter at all, but it's still there.

If we're going to ignore that basis and talk overarching society and the like, the statement is completely false. People are shaped by their upbringing and surroundings, which does cause a lot of people of the same race to have similar upbringings, but doesn't preclude otherwise from happening.

 

[cyberheater]

Stop listening to idiots folks.

 

[G.ZZZ]

He's right, but there are still some of the good ones out there.

 

[jWILL253]

He's right, but there are still some of the good ones out there.

Again... this doesn't matter. Like I said before, nothing will change about this conversation unless White people stop making it about themselves and going #NotAllWhites. Of course we know not all White people are bigoted (there's a difference between bigotry & racism, by the way), but a large amount of them are. In fact, considering how the demographics are trending in this current election, one can make the case that most of them are. And a White person's bigotry is almost a separate conversation; we're talking about the racism that every White person in this country benefits from at even the smallest of levels, because this country was made with White people and only White people in mind.

 

[Audioboxer]

Nope. France bans burqa bikinis, Europeans regularly throw bananas at black soccer stars, Brexit and its aftermath, the continued treatment of First Nation people in Canada, the rise of fascism in Europe in the wake of xenophobia. Nah. White people are getting a global side eye if anything. Spilling that tea, baby. That said if I were to choose a white majority nation it would be Canada. At least they don't value a disgusting gun culture.



You certainly have more faith in humanity than me!

I kind of feel like I have to or else it's a seriously depressing thought. I guess that faith in humanity is a personal thought though, I'm not trying to say everyone must feel like I do.

Shot by a random white person? When did I say anything about random white people shooting me?



No, that's normal.

Yeah I think that was a little insensitive, especially considering the problem America does have with cops killing people.

The only thing I can think is the poster was possibly hinting at the topic of fight or flight I have delved into. Understanding ones personal bias due to their personal experience, or knowledge and experiences they have learned of. I mean you might find it hard to fault a young girl/women living in Rotherham for having a thought in her head that to walk passed some Asian men late at night reminds her of the sexual abuse scandals going on/gone on. I wouldn't ever say they should feel shame for that, where you live and what goes on in your surroundings does play a part in shaping your thoughts and feelings. However I would try to help anyone in that situation learn why they have such an internal bias and what may be productive ways to handle that fight or flight response. I mean feeling it inside, being somewhat cautious and going about your day/night is okay. Simply deciding that every young Asian(s) that you walk past is a rapist and/or paedophile might not be the healthiest of approaches for you to try and get on with your fellow humans. I mean it's just not going to be true, and depending on how you approach the situations you can seriously end up hurting someone innocent (emotionally, not so much physically unless you do end up acting out physically).

So just to make it clear it's never been about me telling you you can't feel how you do Cindi, there are many good reasons for why you say what you do. I just hope for your own well-being you can find a way to navigate your internal responses, as as much as we hate playing a game of statistics they very much do aid in how we as humans respond to things. It's human nature to look for patterns in nearly everything, and therefore understandable why if you live in an area of high oppression, or even a country of such, that your brain will calculate your chances to be affected much higher than Joe Bloggs, or even me, living over in the UK. Not to mention the fact I'm white so yes I don't have anywhere near the same experience of feeling the way a minority does in many situations I'm in (walking around in public/attending school/and so on). So again, to finish with I am not saying you should not have the internal responses you do, just that it is healthy to always challenge yourself, even in the face of what is good anecdotal/statistical evidence. Humans are individuals, even if it is possible to group large amounts of them for thinking and/or behaving alike.

edit: Do let me also make it clear to say I can have an inner response to walking into a petrol (gas) station and feel a bit worried someone has swaggered in in front of me with a hoodie up does not mean I'm trying to therefore say I now know what it feels like to be a minority and walk down the street in public and have people look at me, or to attend school and be bullied. That would be a ludicrous assertion. I hope I've made it fairly clear, or at least tried to, that the discussion of fight or flight is a general one, about why bodies and minds can act as they do. Not a bargaining chip for me to somehow say I know how it feels, so listen to me. I don't, and I won't ever as I won't ever be black. For the sake of humanity I just try my hardest to try and be optimistic and say even in amidst terrible times and oppression, there is and always will be people on the side of the oppressors who are disgusted at what some of "their" people are doing and truly aren't okay with it. I mean I hate even saying "their" side, as I hate to define myself as a white person, or part of white culture. I truly just see myself as a human being and my colour is just a string of consequences of where my ancestors started and where I've been born. There are individuals who just want humanity to all get along and for us not to judge/oppress people on skin colour.

Audioboxer and Kinitari, please watch 13th on Netflix. You guys talk about talking about race like it's a philosophical exercise in reaching pure grammatical and personal logic rather than as a grim reality. I don't know from your idealistic posts if you have the full context of why white and black America are as they are and how deep the trail goes.

Don't just take my word on 13th, everyone on GAF who saw it and posted about it praised it and learned something: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1284752

I do have a good understanding. History allows us to educate ourselves on what humans have done before us, and why things continue as they are today. If anyone reads my post history you will have seen me say a few times history should be studied, and in most cases never repeated. However individuals can't always be held responsible for the history they didn't play a part in. Unless of course they do still perpetuate said history. I hold my hands up and say it's a messy, complex and unforgiving situation. To try and be positive about humanity though I just feel uncomfortable asking genuinely innocent people to accept being written off unless their is proof they should be. I mean Hitler and how the Germans committed atrocities forever shaped the world, and have left many still being oppressed, abused and targeted today. It doesn't mean I can feel comfortable with an internal bias to view all Germans as Nazis/Hitler sympathisers though. While there will be some behaving in such a way, no doubt said history being as long ago as it was means most from that era have died, and we did also lock up many war criminals who took part in said War. What I think would be fairer to say is it's important for the world, Germans included to study and learn about the War and what happened. Education and knowledge are all we can hope to instill in minds. Just as it is important for white people to learn about history, slavery, and all the oppression that still happens today. Learning about it and fighting against it isn't to be held responsible for the actions of others, hence why many myself included were not too impressed with the teacher conflating how he behaves/has been influenced in his personal life to be the same as every other white person.

I'll watch that documentary though, and I doubt I'll be surprised at anything I hear/see. As a Brit I follow the American police force issues as much as any outsider can, and have also paid a lot of attention to prisons and the overwhelming amount of black people who are locked up. Tons of them I would say pretty much illegally. How America can be okay giving near life sentences for some of the things they've put black people behind bars for whilst white people receive a 6 months sentence for something genuinely grim (wasn't there a white rapist recently given a 6 month sentence and let out early?) is mind boggling. Complete injustice. The war on drugs for one is a complete and utter sham and something dark in Americas history. I can't say much considering Britain still has some overly harsh drug laws, but the difference here is we aren't on mass locking up black people for just about life for something absolutely no one should be behind bars for (or if you aren't for legalizing for whatever reasons you have to at least admit the length of sentences are hysterically bad. ruining someones life, and that of any family they may have). Trust me there is a lot I get angry about. As much as I'm trying to wage in in this topic on personal psychological premises please no one think that is to downplay how horrible humanity largely is. I cannot stand oppression, judgement and ruining of lives over skin colour and the mere fact someone like Donald Trump can be genuinely running for presidency is just insane. Just as it is we let Nigel Farage campaign to ruin the lives of immigrants in Britain, and the public in large quantities bought into it. There are plenty of reasons to be utterly depressed and give up on humanity... I know that. Large quantities of individuals just behave terribly, and it's made even worse when there is systematic racism running through Government, police forces and even education. Not only is that shameful to be at such upper echelons of society, from the people we expect to be best educated, it is also dangerous in that it influences young minds, and even adult minds, that if said behaviour is demonstrated by those in power, it is therefore okay for an everyday citizen to agree with/mimic/sympathise with. Just look at how Trump has emboldened people to be even more open about their racism/oppression than ever before. Or by ever before, I mean at least in recent years.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Again... this doesn't matter. Like I said before, nothing will change about this conversation unless White people stop making it about themselves and going #NotAllWhites. Of course we know not all White people are bigoted (there's a difference between bigotry & racism, by the way), but a large amount of them are. In fact, considering how the demographics are trending in this current election, one can make the case that most of them are. And a White person's bigotry is almost a separate conversation; we're talking about the racism that every White person in this country benefits from at even the smallest of levels, because this country was made with White people and only White people in mind.

You're right, even the few good ones are unsalvageable. Truly a dumpster fire.

 

[afternoon delight]

So much of these discussions reminds me of the MLK / Malcolm debates in so many ways- not to ignore the countless other camps of progressive thinking either.

It all contributes to my misanthropy.

I think that's on full display in this thread mi amigo. Might I suggest If He Hollers Let Him Go by Hines if you haven't read it already? This is coming from a post-Hajj-Malcolm kind of guy.

 

[Mass Effect]

Great post! It all contributes to my misanthropy.

It's extremely depressing, but it's the truth.

And also why I will never have faith in humanity.

 

[Astral Dog]

Thats ignorant

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So much of these discussions reminds me of the MLK / Malcolm debates in so many ways- not to ignore the countless other camps of progressive thinking either.


I think that's on full display in this thread mi amigo. Might I suggest If He Hollers Let Him Go by Hines if you haven't read it already? This is coming from a post-Hajj-Malcolm kind of guy.

I associate myself with both the good Dr and Malcolm X's philosophies. Even post-Hajj Malcolm X was a full on realist. Love this quote in particular:

Malcolm X on White Allies:

“I knew, better than most Negroes, how many white people truly wanted to see American racial problems solved. I knew that many whites were as frustrated as Negroes. I’ll bet I got fifty letters some days from white people. The white people in meeting audiences would throng around me, asking me, after I had addressed them somewhere, ‘What can a sincere white person do?’

“When I say that here now, it makes me think about that little co-ed I told you about, the one who flew from her New England college down to New York and came up to me in the Nation of Islam’s restaurant in Harlem, and I told her that there was “nothing” she could do. I regret that I told her that. I wish that now I knew her name, or where I could telephone her, or write to her, and tell her what I tell white people now when they present themselves as being sincere, and ask me, one way or another, the same thing that she asked. The first thing I tell them is that at least where my own particular Black Nationalist organization, the Organization of Afro-American Unity, is concerned, they can’t join us. I have these very deep feelings that white people who want to join black organizations are really just taking the escapist way to salve their consciences. By visibly hovering near us, they are "proving" that they are "with us." But the hard truth is this isn't helping to solve America's racist problem. The Negroes aren't the racists. Where the really sincere white people have got to do their "proving" of themselves is not among the black victims, but out on the battle lines of where America's racism really is—and that's in their own home communities; America's racism is among their own fellow whites. That's where sincere whites who really mean to accomplish something have got to work.
“Aside from that, I mean nothing against any sincere whites when I say that as members of black organizations, generally whites’ very presence subtly renders the black organization automatically less effective. Even the best white members will slow down the Negroes’ discovery of what they need to do, and particularly of what they can do—for themselves, working by themselves, among their own kind, in their own communities.

“I sure don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings, but in fact I’ll even go so far as to say that I never really trust the kind of white people who are always so anxious to hang around Negroes, or to hang around in Negro communities. I don’t trust the kind of whites who love having Negroes always hanging around them. I don’t know—this feeling may be a throwback to the years when I was hustling in Harlem and all of those red-faced, drunk whites in the after hours clubs were always grabbing hold of some Negroes and talking about ‘I just want you to know you’re just as good as I am—.’ And then they got back in their taxicabs and black limousines and went back downtown to the places where they lived and worked where no blacks except servants had better get caught. But, anyway, I know that every time that whites join a black organization, you watch, pretty soon the blacks will be leaning to the whites to support it, and before you know it a black may be up front with a title, but the whites, because of their money, are the real controllers.
“I tell sincere white people, 'Work in conjunction with us—each of us working among our own kind.' Let sincere white individuals find all other white people they can who feel as they do—and let them form their own all-white groups, to work trying to convert other white people who are thinking and acting so racist. Let sincere whites go and teach non-violence to white people! We will completely respect our white co-workers. They will deserve every credit. We will give them every credit. We will meanwhile be working among our own kind, in our own black communities— showing and teaching black men in ways that only other black men can—that the black man has got to help himself. Working separately, the sincere white people and sincere black people actually will be working together.

In our mutual sincerity we might be able to show a road to the salvation of America’s very soul. It can only be salvaged if human rights and dignity, in full, are extended to black men. Only such real, meaningful actions as those which are sincerely motivated from a deep sense of humanism and moral responsibility can get at the basic causes that produce the racial explosions in America today. Otherwise, the racial explosions are only going to grow worse. Certainly nothing is ever going to be solved by throwing upon me and other so-called black ‘extremists’ and ‘demagogues’ the blame for the racism that is in America.”

~The Autobiography of Malcolm X, Alex Haley and Malcolm X (Ballantine: 1964): pp. 383–384.

I have not read that book. This year I have read a full course on black literature and biographies and philosophy. I can certainly add it to the list of books to read before the end of the year. Reading the wikipedia makes it sound fucked up and not my thing, though. If you think I have a problem with accepting my place as black in a white world, that's not really the case. I have fully accepted it as of Ferguson. I just peel the veil of the grim reality. There was definitely a point where I was full of anger and confusion, but once you accept the anger it is longer confusing - just sobering. The cards have been revealed; I'm just showing mine.

And also why I will never have faith in humanity.

Sounds like a good plan!

 

[Darth Ghandi]

Progress is being made but of course at a snails pace. And truth be told White people get to be judged as individuals. We don't.

Oath brother!

 

[afternoon delight]

I associate myself with both the good Dr and Malcolm X's philosophies. Even post-Hajj Malcolm X was a full on realist. Love this quote in particular

There's a billion quotes from these thinkers it's unbelieveable. Here's something from pre Hajj X I'd stand and applaud with as well:

"In my opinion young people today, whites, blacks, browns whatever else there is, must realize that they live in a time of revolution, a time of change. Those in power have abused it and there has got to be change. A better world needs to be built and the only way it is going to get built is by extreme methods. I will stand with anyone, I don't care what color you are, as long as you want to change the miserable condition that exists on this earth."

I'm sure over their careers the spectrum can be quoted. I'm not switching this to a classist argument, simply allowing for the nuance of life I agree with.

Reading the wikipedia makes it sound fucked up and not my thing, though. If you think I have a problem with accepting my place as black in a white world, that's not really the case. I have fully accepted it as of Ferguson. I just peel the veil of the grim reality. There was definitely a point where I was full of anger and confusion, but once you accept the anger it is longer confusing - just sobering. The cards have been revealed; I'm just showing mine. I associate myself with both the good Dr and Malcolm X's philosophies.

It was not my intent to draw a correlation between its seemingly pulpy content and your persepective, and I don't think very highly of its wikipedia summation. (Imagine a dry reading of Native Son's content maybe) and I reccommend it simply because it contains very blunt language about anger and frustration that leaves most speechless. Very powerful words to contemplate in my opinion.

It's Amazon impressions are much more accurate representation of the book.

The cards have been revealed; I'm just showing mine. I associate myself with both the good Dr and Malcolm X's philosophies.

I used to be more even handed but now I mostly lean toward MLK now that injustice appears endless and infinite. No matter how many transgressions amount there must always be diaolgoue because peace and harmony is the way of the future.

 

[KingV]

Shot by a random white person? When did I say anything about random white people shooting me?



No, that's normal.

I was reading you post in light of this earlier post worrying about your boyfriend being shot by randon white people. On second reading I may have interpreted the post I quoted differently than you meant it. But I was thinking "you never know what white person you're going to get" in light of the post below which is pretty much all about watching how you act around white people to avoid getting shot.

I don't care if they're "sweeping generalizations." For the most part they prove to be true. Ask any black person. For the most part, white peoole must earn our trust. Also, these are generalizations due to sheer survival. My SO is a tall, big black man. What happens if he gets in a car wreck and needs help and has to ring people's doors for help and someone assume he's trying to rob them, calls the police that a black man is trying to rob them, and he gets 10 shots in his chest? For the sake of practicality it is wise to assume all white peoole are racist. For this same reason, you do not go in stores with hands in pockets or leave without a receipt and bag. Because you must go with the assumption you will always be profiled and thus assume under every shred of doubt that every white person is racist. You cannot read their thoughts and thus they must build rapport and trust with you. Assuming all white people are racist unless proven otherwise is minority survival skill 101. Because we don't wanna be shot. With the rise of Trump and white nationalism this proves to be true. Who knows if it's some white person who lies behind their teeth?

The fact remains those incidents are highly uncommon occurrences that we feel are more common than they really are because they get a lot of play on the news.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

There's a billion quotes from these thinkers it's unbelieveable. Here's something from pre Hajj X I'd stand and applaud with as well:

"In my opinion young people today, whites, blacks, browns whatever else there is, must realize that they live in a time of revolution, a time of change. Those in power have abused it and there has got to be change. A better world needs to be built and the only way it is going to get built is by extreme methods. I will stand with anyone, I don't care what color you are, as long as you want to change the miserable condition that exists on this earth."

I'm sure over their careers the spectrum can be quoted. I'm not switching this to a classist argument, simply allowing for the nuance of life I agree with.


It was not my intent to draw a correlation between its seemingly pulpy content and your persepective, and I don't think very highly of its wikipedia summation. (Imagine a dry reading of Native Son's content maybe) and I reccommend it simply because it contains very blunt language about anger and frustration that leaves most speechless. Very powerful words to contemplate in my opinion.

It's Amazon impressions are much more accurate representation of the book.


I used to be more even handed but now I mostly lean toward MLK now that injustice appears endless and infinite. No matter how many transgressions amount there must always be diaolgoue because peace and harmony is the way of the future.

I definitely lean more on the Malcolm X side of things. Sweltering reality gets emotions stirred which leads to dialogue like this thread being made. There's still dialogue, just a different kind. In the end, MLK's dialogue has been reduced to sound bites about having a dream. Even in his day MLK was considered a race baiter, for they will always challenge any attempt of racial parity. That's how fragile they are. Since it doesn't really seem to matter which kind of argument is posed it doesn't matter how you go about it, you'll get the same result. Resigning yourself to one's emotions is far more freeing to me. Anger is freeing.

I am not too familiar with Himes. I have read Yesterday Will Make You Cry, however and it was pretty good. Highly sobering, though, so I know he can write the hard stuff. I'll look into it.

“Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.” - Malcolm X

Get this book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316010170/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[sphagnum]

I associate myself with both the good Dr and Malcolm X's philosophies. Even post-Hajj Malcolm X was a full on realist. Love this quote in particular:

I almost wish we had an upvote system for that Malcolm quote.

 

[SomTervo]

All white people have privilege, but there isn't a direct correlation between privilege and racism. Racism requires an extra step, even a very small one.


At least that is how I see it.

A fair but incomplete perspective. The contention is that there is pervasive institutional/structural racism which was by-and-large created, propagated and sustained by white people - and we all live within that structure. It's a biased structure. And I guess you could say white people sustain that - even if they don't physically do anything racist.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I was reading you post in light of this earlier post worrying about your boyfriend being shot by randon white people. On second reading I may have interpreted the post I quoted differently than you meant it. But I was thinking "you never know what white person you're going to get" in light of the post below which is pretty much all about watching how you act around white people to avoid getting shot.



The fact remains those incidents are highly uncommon occurrences that we feel are more common than they really are because they get a lot of play on the news.

It isn't being shot by white people. It's white people who assume he will rob them, call the police and be shot at by the police. I mentioned nothing about being shot by random white people. However, you will be judged by random white people.

When my cousin and I are pulled over because he's driving his car - a sports car - and they ask him how he got the car, what his parents do for a living, if the car was really his car. He had his hand on his gun while asking these questions. What am I supposed to think?

When a black man who got in a car accident, losing his cell phone, knocked on doors to get help, it was assumed that he was trying to rob them, the police were called, and he was shot 10-12 times what am I supposed to think?

When police are called because you have a black couple sleeping in their own car because some white person deems them suspicious what am I supposed to think?

When the police are called because a black person is shopping "too slowly" by a white person what am I supposed to think?

Too much today is talked about police brutality and too little on the fact it's white people who call the police assuming a black person is suspicious just for fucking existing.

What am I supposed to think? How am I supposed to react? What kind of white person am I going to get? Why should I trust any white person who will not dehumanize me or my family on sight?

 

[Goatboy]

It isn't being shot by white people. It's white people who assume he will rob them, call the police and be shot at by the police. I mentioned nothing about being shot by random white people. However, you will be judged by random white people.

When my cousin and I are pulled over because he's driving his car - a sports car - and they ask him how he got the car, what his parents do for a living, if the car was really his car. He had his hand on his gun while asking these questions. What am I supposed to think?

When a black man who got in a car accident, losing his cell phone, knocked on doors to get help, it was assumed that he was trying to rob them, the police were called, and he was shot 10-12 times what am I supposed to think?

When police are called because you have a black couple sleeping in their own car because some white person deems them suspicious what am I supposed to think?

When the police are called because a black person is shopping "too slowly" by a white person what am I supposed to think?

Too much today is talked about police brutality and too little on the fact it's white people who call the police assuming a black person is suspicious just for fucking existing.

What am I supposed to think? How am I supposed to react? What kind of white person am I going to get? Why should I trust any white person who will not dehumanize me or my family on sight?

You stated earlier you wanted children some day. How can you want to pluck someone into existence to the reality you're describing? If it's too off topic feel free to ignore.

 

[MistakenMobius]

It isn't being shot by white people. It's white people who assume he will rob them, call the police and be shot at by the police. I mentioned nothing about being shot by random white people. However, you will be judged by random white people.

When my cousin and I are pulled over because he's driving his car - a sports car - and they ask him how he got the car, what his parents do for a living, if the car was really his car. He had his hand on his gun while asking these questions. What am I supposed to think?

When a black man who got in a car accident, losing his cell phone, knocked on doors to get help, it was assumed that he was trying to rob them, the police were called, and he was shot 10-12 times what am I supposed to think?

When police are called because you have a black couple sleeping in their own car because some white person deems them suspicious what am I supposed to think?

When the police are called because a black person is shopping "too slowly" by a white person what am I supposed to think?

Too much today is talked about police brutality and too little on the fact it's white people who call the police assuming a black person is suspicious just for fucking existing.

What am I supposed to think? How am I supposed to react? What kind of white person am I going to get? Why should I trust any white person who will not dehumanize me or my family on sight?

Maybe leave the USA...
This doesn't really happen anywhere in the OECD countries

 

[Cabbagehead]

It isn't being shot by white people. It's white people who assume he will rob them, call the police and be shot at by the police. I mentioned nothing about being shot by random white people. However, you will be judged by random white people.

When my cousin and I are pulled over because he's driving his car - a sports car - and they ask him how he got the car, what his parents do for a living, if the car was really his car. He had his hand on his gun while asking these questions. What am I supposed to think?

When a black man who got in a car accident, losing his cell phone, knocked on doors to get help, it was assumed that he was trying to rob them, the police were called, and he was shot 10-12 times what am I supposed to think?

When police are called because you have a black couple sleeping in their own car because some white person deems them suspicious what am I supposed to think?

When the police are called because a black person is shopping "too slowly" by a white person what am I supposed to think?

Too much today is talked about police brutality and too little on the fact it's white people who call the police assuming a black person is suspicious just for fucking existing.

What am I supposed to think? How am I supposed to react? What kind of white person am I going to get? Why should I trust any white person who will not dehumanize me or my family on sight?

God damn some jimmies will be rustled from that one.

Maybe leave the USA...
This doesn't really happen anywhere in the OECD countries

You can't be serious with that response given the current climate? and political situation.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Maybe leave the USA...
This doesn't really happen anywhere in the OECD countries

I go back and forth on leaving USA but it certainly won't happen any time soon. I definitely my country is dog shit but a part of tells me to stay and fight because after all they've made their bed, time to fucking lay in it. But there also a part of me that knows it would be naive to think any one place is perfect.

 

[MistakenMobius]

You can't be serious with that response given the current climate? and political situation.

Are u one of those guy that say that people should stay in Syria and fight ISIS on one side and the SAA on the other side rather that migrate in a peaceful country?

Some fight cannot be win in the current state. Racism in the USA is not realistically challengeable as of now.

 

[sphagnum]

Are u one of those guy that say that people should stay in Syria and fight ISIS on one side and the SAA on the other side rather that migrate in a peaceful country?

Some fight cannot be win in the current state. Racism in the USA is not realistically challengeable as of now.

The United States is not the only country with anti-black racism. It may be easier for black people to survive in other first world countries where police don't shoot everything willy nilly but they're still going to face prejudice. It happens almost everywhere it seems.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I don't think I understand white fragility.

I read Anna Kegler's article on the topic, and was surprised to find it was the source of the explanation from earlier in the thread of how we are conditioned to see racism as a moral failing that makes us terrible people. Isn't it obvious that someone would react poorly to being called evil?

 

[MistakenMobius]

The United States is not the only country with anti-black racism. It may be easier for black people to survive in other first world countries where police don't shoot everything willy nilly but they're still going to face prejudice. It happens almost everywhere it seems.

Of course but it will be very different kind of racism: are you Muslim or not? Do you speak the power language of the country? From which university are u? Where did u grew up?

 

[Cabbagehead]

Are u one of those guy that say that people should stay in Syria and fight ISIS on one side and the SAA on the other side rather that migrate in a peaceful country?

Some fight cannot be win in the current state. Racism in the USA is not realistically challengeable as of now.

You are literally going to propose false equivalency to make your point? Because those two arguments have no real connective tissue, more so with you assuming that i'm one of those people that would have that mindset. One is clearly on the extreme spectrum, there are no outright wars and bombing in the streets of the United States in relation to black peoples problems, it's just plain old brutality, negligence , corruption, racism/intolerance, incompetence and killing. What is happening in the middle east is more open and is not new to that part of the world at all (The middle east has almost never been without it's war, tribe battles and religious fights) , this on the other hand is deeply rooted, but could be righted in someway and running away from it may not be the best thing or answer. Unless of course the one leaving has a family and has a real good reason or the funds to make that leap.

Again, the situation in the Syria is a cluster fuck of epic proportions, whether or not someone gets to migrate to a more steadier, more "peaceful" country is not up to them in most cases. Given the obstacles they will have to go through to even get membership let alone safe passage. Especially with high level folks in different countries thinking about closing down borders due to the fear of territories members sneaking into said countries.

Still racism is challengeable, it's been challengeable for a 100 years now in the USA. Hence why i have what i have now. It's just a long process, a very long hard process and it continues lots of blood was split for America to be born on many of backs . Now if a all out race war happens or looks like it will. Then GTFO before then because that would the signal of signal but the possibility of that is still slim. In either case packing up and just living is smart for some people and not smart for others, mileage may vary. Now how any person of color will be treated after they move to a different country is usually in the air just as much, if not more depending on were you settle down.

The other half of that spectrum is an unpredictable mess with too many hands in the cookie jar.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't think I understand white fragility.

I read Anna Kegler's article on the topic, and was surprised to find it was the source of the explanation from earlier in the thread of how we are conditioned to see racism as a moral failing that makes us terrible people. Isn't it obvious that someone would react poorly to being called evil?

Evil? You're going way past what it's about.

http://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.

It can be as simple as just acknowledging race exists at all to a white person. I hear "you always make things about race" even from people I've only discussed it with once ever. Just saying that we exist in a racially divisive world without even going further on the explanation is enough to send people over the edge.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Evil? You're going way past what it's about.

http://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116

It can be as simple as just acknowledging race exists at all to a white person. I frequently hear "you always make things about race" even from people I've only discussed it with once ever. Just saying that we exist in a racially divisive world without even going further on the explanation is enough to send people over the edge.

That all makes sense to me. However, it was my understanding that white people reacting poorly to being called racist -- like in the OP situation -- is also an example of white fragility. Is it not?

 

[Cabbagehead]

Evil? You're going way past what it's about.

http://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116

It can be as simple as just acknowledging race exists at all to a white person. I hear "you always make things about race" even from people I've only discussed it with once ever. Just saying that we exist in a racially divisive world without even going further on the explanation is enough to send people over the edge.

Yep it's the boggy man topic that quickly gets some folks real angry or bothered. It's something they don't want to face majority of the time. More so when they are around others. It's the reason they're so washy washy.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Saying that one's race (or gender, or whatever else) gives them advantages/exempts them from disadvantages they otherwise wouldn't have is fine. What's not okay is when you make the jump from that to declaring that one's race/gender/etc. is an original sin that they must spend their lives atoning for, which is how that statement is going to be interpreted regardless of if that's what the speaker really means. Among other reasons, the average person isn't going to hear that and go "I'm so sorry how do I cleanse myself of this sin," they're going to go "hey fuck you too asshole" and proceed to stop listening to whatever you have to say, because that's the natural reaction people have when being told that they're a bad person, especially when the reason cited is a thing they have no control over. If your goal is to judge and antagonize people, then that's fine, mission accomplished. But if your goal is to educate people and encourage them to solve these problems you should avoid that sort of rhetoric.

There's also the fact that it devalues the term when you use the word "racist" to refer to both people who think certain races are inferior and should be wiped out and people who are okay with the existence of other races but happen to have white skin.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Where does this put interracial couples where one is white? What would you tell your daughter if she came home with a white guy?

I'm honestly not trying to be stupid here, I mean we live in a world where different races of people do indeed have meaningful relationships.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

You stated earlier you wanted children some day. How can you want to pluck someone into existence to the reality you're describing? If it's too off topic feel free to ignore.

I plan on adopting. If I can save two black kids from an existence without knowing a parents love in this already hard, cruel world I will have done my part.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Where does this put interracial couples where one is white? What would you tell your daughter if she came home with a white guy?

I know what some black fathers would say...

 

[Nabbis]

Where does this put interracial couples where one is white? What would you tell your daughter if she came home with a white guy?

I'm honestly not trying to be stupid here, I mean we live in a world where different races of people do indeed have meaningful relationships.

It's not like there's a unilateral agreement on this. Some posters here seem to be going a little too deep into their rabbit hole and it would probably be more productive to not take their stance too personally.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Where does this put interracial couples where one is white? What would you tell your daughter if she came home with a white guy?

That is her choice and I would trust in her decision that he can be her rock and lend her the support she needs and understand the ramifications of having a black child if they choose to procreate. Having a black child and wife will hopefully clue him in to the reality of blackness and I would have faith in my child's choice. I'm not a black supremacist. I just want equality.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Bump for relevance.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Well fuck you too. No, i am not racist.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

#NotAllWhites

 

[Imm0rt4l]

We are literally seeing white supremacy at work

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It feels like you're taking this whole thing personally, as if it's a label or a way to shame people, when it's just an acknowledgement of our current place in the racial caste system we exist in, like it or not. It's not some sort of burden or demoralizing thought for me to admit I grew up in a racist as fuck place and inherited some of that behavior and thinking pattern that I have to unlearn and am still actively unlearning every moment.

Audioboxer and Kinitari, please watch 13th on Netflix. You guys talk about talking about race like it's a philosophical exercise in reaching pure grammatical and personal logic rather than as a grim reality. I don't know from your idealistic posts if you have the full context of why white and black America are as they are and how deep the trail goes.

Don't just take my word on 13th, everyone on GAF who saw it and posted about it praised it and learned something: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1284752

Whoo boy.

Everyone, watch 13th on Netflix if you don't understand what you are watching be voted into power right now.