Support NeoGAF

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

DeafTourette

Why can't I replay to your post?

Also no need to be condescending?

I already know that?

What I'm saying is this

The MCU dealt with it before and when it did as I gave in my Winter Soldier Example which you completely ignored, they didn't hit you over the head with it though..

I was wondering how can you ignore that this DEI stuff has been an issue with MCU Post Phase 3? Post Phase 3 there have been massive issues other than the woke stuff but that woke stuff has been the main issue with lot of people

 

[T-0800]

They're doing what they do in the comics and manga. One event ends, another begins. It's never the end.

 

[GymWolf]

Yep, that's exactly the problem they have

 

[March Climber]

The reasoning in the article is not good, but I’d like to make a side comment:

You know I had an interesting thought when reading the posts in this thread. Anime fans will sometimes be okay with a bad arc or 2(or long filler) of a series because of their love for the anime itself.

Not many people really question this, for the most part, because they know content exists or will exist soon where the quality of the property is possible to improve again. Either that or they’re in too deep and just want to see things to their end, even when they know the animators or writer(s) are being stretched too thin for time and worked to death to produce literally anything of substance. You end up with a crowd of people who consider certain anime top 10 material on certain lists, even though some of those anime with a ton of episodes might have up to or over half of the content not be good content.

For some reason a lot of today’s Marvel fans, specifically MCU fans, will do almost none of the above, even though the possibility of improvement is there due to the source material being present and the steps Marvel is currently taking to improve quality. In the past when we had a bad run of a few mediocre movies like Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Avengers 2, and Iron Man 3, people were still forgiving because they knew the potential of where the arc(s) can go, based on the source materials.

For some reason in present times however, even when a good or well received Marvel movie or TV series comes out today, people will go right back to thinking Marvel is bad. There’s a high percent chance it’s also going to happen right after Deadpool 3 as well. I just find this fascinating because one would think that Marvel MCU fans would at least hold out hope during their own bad arcs much like anime fans would hold out hope for their favorite series going through a bad arc, but instead the majority opinion is one of ‘wanting to hate/abandon’ everything MCU.

 

[FunkMiller]

Ah yes. Let’s blame the audience, instead of the shitty fucking movies they’ve been putting out.

Gaslighting of the highest order.

 

[SJRB]

GeNeRaTiOnAl DiViDe

Man shut the fuck up. This was less than five years ago. Not a decade ago, not a generation ago, FIVE YEARS:





The medium has been run into the ground by oversaturation, TERRIBLE writing and woke pandering. Absolute bottom of the barrel levels of quality. How can he be so mellow about this? He spent years making Marvel into the cinematic powerhouse and they pissed it all away in a couple of years. How is this guy not furious.

 

[Nankatsu]

Marvel Executives:

 

[Little Mac]

Go woke, go broke. Know your demographic and stop catering your movies to individuals who've never read a comic in their lives.

 

[ShadowNate]

Yeah, they are probably right. It mush be a factor. I don't know how many of the younger generations would go to the cinema today to watch a block buster movie but my gut feeling is that it's barely a trend anymore. Nowhere near what it was in the '90s. Marvel/Disney probably have done their research and concluded the same.

But, it's not like the older generation is as excited to go to the cinema as two decades ago. That well has been poisoned too.

Personally, I rarely even consider it for the past few years. Ideological crap injected with barely any consideration to make them fit, lazy dialogue and sloppy story-telling have soured me out. Also the long drawn badly directed and poorly implemented CGI "action" scenes.

I did watch Endgame in a theater, and that forced "all-women heroines in a line-up" scene stuck out as the sore thumb cringe it was. In a movie that did not need this signaling and was the culmination of decades of effort, and, I'm guessing, planning. I bet anyone involved silently (or maybe vocally and I've missed it?) still regrets that one.

Try to convince your old crowd that you're not going to pull that shit, when years later it only got worse.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

It cannot possibly be we had multiple superhero movies every year for the last 15 years that now rely on you reading comics or watching companion TV shows because companies want to cross-sell you to high heavens. No, let's blame millenials Gen Z.

 

[VulcanRaven]

The Disney+ shows are the reason why I haven't kept up with MCU. There are just too many of them. I don't feel like watching the movies when I don't get the whole story.

 

[RJMacready73]

What an absolute crock of shite, the success of Dune and Avatar show that give the consumers a fucking great story aka Dune or spectacle aka Avatar and people will flock to the cinema to watch 3hr movies no sweat, give them some poorly written "woke" shite targeting the cunts who consume their media via Tiktok and whaddayaknow... Nobody gives a fuck, are these million dolla a year movie execs really this fucking dumb as shit??

 

[Quasicat]

No it's because Disney gone Woked it up.
Putting stuff on Disney Plus didn't help them either with pirates having access to the 4k HDR Dolby Atmos version on day one...
Dumb Fucks

This is why I was surprised that they back pedaled on dropping physical media so quickly. It’s really easy to pull the file off of a disc that any computer with a Blu-ray drive can do it. That deal with Sony must have been too good to pass up.
Is it possible to record a 4k stream off of Disney Plus?

 

[AJUMP23]

Marvel movies have gotten really bad and really preachy. The last villain Thanos was a big environmentalist, and I could relate to them wanting to destroy the universe.

 

[TrebleShot]

An easy cop out for people who haven’t made anything decent in 5 years.


Tragic.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Everything has Woke shit tied into it making for shitty stories. That's why people don't want to see it.

 

[DKehoe]

This. There gonna become hacks now it seems. Pitty.

It's weird. They directed two of the ten most successful films ever. And now they direct stuff that no one watches. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about having watched Cherry or The Gray Man. A lot of those Netflix films feel like they only exist in some alternate universe. This also made him seem like a bit of an arsehole.

 

[CGNoire]

It's weird. They directed two of the ten most successful films ever. And now they direct stuff that no one watches. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about having watched Cherry or The Gray Man. A lot of those Netflix films feel like they only exist in some alternate universe. This also made him seem like a bit of an arsehole.

What a twat. I guess he can enjoy becoming a straight 2 streaming director.

 

[CGNoire]

What an absolute crock of shite, the success of Dune and Avatar show that give the consumers a fucking great story aka Dune or spectacle aka Avatar and people will flock to the cinema to watch 3hr movies no sweat, give them some poorly written "woke" shite targeting the cunts who consume their media via Tiktok and whaddayaknow... Nobody gives a fuck, are these million dolla a year movie execs really this fucking dumb as shit??

Yes, Yes they are.

 

[TGO]

This is why I was surprised that they back pedaled on dropping physical media so quickly. It’s really easy to pull the file off of a disc that any computer with a Blu-ray drive can do it. That deal with Sony must have been too good to pass up.
Is it possible to record a 4k stream off of Disney Plus?

Yes, all their Marvel IMAX films are available somewhere....

 

[Trunx81]

The problem with Marvel movies isn’t even the wokeness, this is just the cherry on top. The problems are in the scripts. These movies cost 200mil upwards for CGI, but no one ever thought about coherent stories that grab the viewers attention. It’s like watching a remake of the first Iron Man (Villain with similar power) and having a sky beam and a faceless army in the last act.

Also, the first marvel movies end credit scenes made you really wait for the next product to come out, which was pretty soon. They teased Thor - Thor was the next movie to come out. So you didn’t forget about the end credit scene because you had to wait 5 years for it to become relevant. No one cares about Thanos’ brother at the end of Eternals. Or the signal that was sent at the end of 10 rings. Because it doesn’t pay off and no one remembers these scenes anymore.

They lack a coherent vision (speaking of, where is white vision?), good screenplays and an overreaching arc.

Quentin Tarantino said that Hollywood is like a pendulum. One decade it swings into awesomeness, the next one into oblivion. We are deep into oblivion right now.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

It is a miracle that we got Into the Spider-Verse and Across the Spider-Verse within a decade.

That's how it's done bros.

 

[DeafTourette]

It is a miracle that we got Into the Spider-Verse and Across the Spider-Verse within a decade.

That's how it's done bros.

Sony got lucky with Lord and Miller... They know how to craft and write a story!

 

[Futaleufu]

It's Captain Marvel's fault. That movie did 1 billion and executives thought they could make any mediocre superhero movie and people would watch it.

 

[NickFire]

Business 404 error - alienating a massive customer base to push an agenda in hopes of getting an even bigger customer base that thinks your entire product is stupid anyway.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Sony got lucky with Lord and Miller... They know how to craft and write a story!

Lord and Miller are so underrated, one of the best hit-to-miss ratios in Hollywood.

 

[Arsic]

Shit movies are your issue.

 

[March Climber]

It's Captain Marvel's fault. That movie did 1 billion and executives thought they could make any mediocre superhero movie and people would watch it.

It would have done good regardless if you consider when that movie released in the MCU schedule. Same with Far From Home, which I personally liked quite a bit but I know others felt it was not that great of a movie.

 

[DeafTourette]

Ant-Man 2 also released between Infinity War and Endgame and didn't do nearly as well as Captain Marvel.

 

[Halo is Back]

There are several reasons why Marvel/superhero films are falling off in viewership and hype.

1. Endgame was the peak of the marvel cinematic universe. It's kind of hard to follow-up what was built before and top it in a meaningful way.

2. Lots of big name actors and superhero characters are gone from the conclusion of Endgame that people really cared about and replacing them with B and C list marvel superheroes just isn't going to generate the same level of hype and excitement.

3. Disney has completely oversaturated the market focusing on quantity instead of quality.

4. Their new output of movies is objectively worse.

 

[nush]

Ant-Man 2 also released between Infinity War and Endgame and didn't do nearly as well as Captain Marvel.

Disney could have put Ant Man 2 in that release slot and the pitch of "He's really relevant to the plot of Endgame" that they pushed for Captain marvel would have been more accurate and factually true. Would have done a billion.

 

[jason10mm]

Lord and Miller are so underrated, one of the best hit-to-miss ratios in Hollywood.

I really really really hope some Lucasarts employee has a disc with their Solo film on it and is just waiting to retire before leaking it. Even if it is an absolute TRAINWRECK I gotta thing morbid curiosity alone would make it a sensation. Disney ought to wrap it into a documentary and stream it on D+.

 

[jason10mm]

2. Lots of big name actors and superhero characters are gone from the conclusion of Endgame that people really cared about and replacing them with B and C list marvel superheroes just isn't going to generate the same level of hype and excitement.

It's not just the lack of name recognition for the heroes, its the TERRIBLE casting. Look at that early wave of actors. They were hyper charismatic, SPOT ON to the comics, and really brought joy to the screen. All the Chris's, RDJ, ScarJo, Holland, they just nailed it. But now we are seeing much less impressive work from less well casted actors. You can see that lots of these guys don't really have star power on their own, it's wrapped up into their role as that character. Marvel is stunt casting now, floundering trying to reach an audience, ANY audience, with poor quality stand-ins for what they've already done.

How the hell they didn't go for the sure fire win of bringing Charlie Cox back as Daredevil and Snipes as Blade is just beyond me. They could have done a mini-arc of those two plus a few other street level heroes (not a total revamp of Defenders, but close, Punisher and Hawkeye for sure) in NYC, used spidey a bit as a bridge character, and then culminate their story with a teaser of X-men or F4. JFC, it isn't even hard.

 

[March Climber]

Ant-Man 2 also released between Infinity War and Endgame and didn't do nearly as well as Captain Marvel.

To put things into better perspective:

Avengers Infinity War release year: April 2018
Ant-Man 2 release year: July 2018
Captain Marvel release year: March 2019

This is what I feel helped CM and what hurt Ant-Man 2:

1) As a bonus boost, Captain Marvel was teased at the end of IW and Samuel Jackson Nick Fury was present in the trailers as the film's co-star to promote it.

2) She was marketed as a powerful key figure that would turn the tide against Thanos, who just won and killed half of everything, which put a large amount of importance on her for the people who just saw IW to watch this movie. In fear of missing out(FOMO), they decided to go watch this movie. Edit: I'm not saying everyone did this, but I can bet that a lot of people did this.

3) Ant-man's story was still disconnected from the Avengers storyline, with this even being present in the trailers, accurately presenting the movie as half-comedy half-action in typical marvel fashion. It disregarded the very serious tone their main arc just went into.

My claim is that most of those billion+ watchers of Infinity War saga wanted to mainly tune in to the Infinity War saga to see it to it's conclusion. Captain Marvel was given importance to this saga as a Superman-like figure. Comparatively, Ant-Man 2 was a poorly timed release and sent out as essentially a fun filler-arc movie to explain away 'where was Ant-Man during these events'.

 

[Hugare]

My personal opinion: it's 100% same shit fatigue, yeah

Make something like Joker or The Batman, ffs. It's the same formula all the time, same looking movies with the same overall story arch, same tone and humour and etc.

The Russo brothers are sucking Marvel's d*ck 'cause they will probably direct Secret Wars

 

[Krappadizzle]

It's a bit of both for me.

Antman 2 was the last one I watched, never watched the Eternals, watched a few episodes of Hawkeye and Moon Knight and I just don't care anymore. The stories all kind of suck, or just don't punch with the same weight. And really, I can't imagine jumping back in. It seems it's so bloated that even if there was a movie I was interested in were to come out, the thought of having to watch a ton of supplemental movies/shows to get the full experience just turns me off from watching it.

I loved the lead up to Avenger's finale, and it was fun participating in the buildup, but they've left me on the platform and the thought of jumping back on the train halfway through a run just doesn't excite me.

Maybe when they figure out how to introduce the X-Men into the universe and can kind of start it off in a fresh way that it's interesting, I'll jump back in.

 

[nush]

Edit: I'm not saying everyone did this, but I can bet that a lot of people did this.

They did, it was fever pitch after a year of waiting for the conclusion at that point. Ant Man 2 was a routine watch. But fuck me that post credit scene made me hype more than the entire movie.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Sony got lucky with Lord and Miller... They know how to craft and write a story!

Loved the first Spider-Verse movie

Hated the second Spider-Verse movie

 

[DeafTourette]

Loved the first Spider-Verse movie

Hated the second Spider-Verse movie

Gotta watch 2 and 3 as one

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Gotta watch 2 and 3 as one

Eh not gonna to

To much Member Berries for me

 

[Dr. Claus]

Loved the first Spider-Verse movie

Hated the second Spider-Verse movie

Yea, second was very mediocre. I don't see the third film "saving" it. I also hate the idea that a middle film can't be properly reviewed if you haven't seen the third/final part. Two Towers, Empire Strikes Back, etc. All were fantastic alone. The second spiderverse movie was just middling at best.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Yea, second was very mediocre. I don't see the third film "saving" it. I also hate the idea that a middle film can't be properly reviewed if you haven't seen the third/final part. Two Towers, Empire Strikes Back, etc. All were fantastic alone. The second spiderverse movie was just middling at best.

Second Spider-Verse Movie was just Member Berries

 

[Lambogenie]

Honestly, it's not just bad movies, it's people. I can't stand people not able to sit still and quiet. Streaming just made it possible to avoid these people. Even when pirating was more common I'd still go cinema. But people have got worse alongside the movie quality.