007 SPECTRE |OT| It's me, Austin. It was me all along, Austin.
- Thread starter Rich!
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Wow, this certainly snuck up fast on me. I'll be seeing it opening day, as always, but my expectations are next to nil after Skyfall due to Spectre having all the same key people involved as Skyfall. Maybe the lack of excitement and expectation will allow for me to be pleasantly surprised. Maybe.
Read the Spectator non-spoiler (or mild spoiler because spoiler nazis might get me)
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/spectre-less-coherent-less-fun-and-with-a-swiz-of-a-bond-girl/
"Less coherent than Skyfall"... Well I'm ready for a trainwreck because movies literally can't get less coherent than Skyfall. Seems like they have continued down the road of excellent cinematography strung together with no thought to making the whole movie relate in a way that makes logical sense.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/spectre-less-coherent-less-fun-and-with-a-swiz-of-a-bond-girl/
"Less coherent than Skyfall"... Well I'm ready for a trainwreck because movies literally can't get less coherent than Skyfall. Seems like they have continued down the road of excellent cinematography strung together with no thought to making the whole movie relate in a way that makes logical sense.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What a crock of shit.
There's like 15 other BOND movies that are "less coherent" than Skyfall is.
majority of james bonds are shit, but hey, skyfall is bad because of home alone.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Who did the intro sequence? Daniel Kleinman was amazing in Casino Royale, and Skyfall. I hope he's back.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I watched Quantum of Solace a few days ago and I can confirm this
While the film has some weak elements to it, I think it's pretty good. I've never agreed to the criticism of the ending because it's vaguely similar to Home Alone. It's a logical progression of the themes present in the film regarding technological control.
There are literally hundreds of movies that are less coherent than Skyfall.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, Daniel Kleinman is back. Awesome. The intro will great.
http://007travelers.blogspot.com.co/2014/12/daniel-kleinman-will-direct-title.html
http://www.thejamesbonddossier.com/news/daniel-kleinman-confirmed-for-spectre.htm
http://007travelers.blogspot.com.co/2014/12/daniel-kleinman-will-direct-title.html
http://www.thejamesbonddossier.com/news/daniel-kleinman-confirmed-for-spectre.htm
-shadow-
Member
Daniel Craig as James Bond - not much to be said here, he's Bond.
Aston Martin DB10 as Car - shown here with its co-star, some guy.
Well done sir. Well done!
Looking forward to the film. I haven't followed its production due to spoilers and have no idea what exactly was in the leaked script so I'm going to see if it ends up that big a mess as people were expecting it to be. I hope that I can see it next week!
Explain what was incoerent about the QoS plot. Sure the actions scenes are overdone on shakiness and some of the dialogue is overwrought but the plot makes sense.
The only way that Skyfall makes sense is if Q is an undercover agent for Silva, which would actually make the film a whole lot smoother.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
"We have to ditch the car so we can't be tracked"
"Hey Q, leave some breadcrumbs so Silva can track us"
SJRB
Gold Member
Q being a fuckwit doesn't make Skyfall "literally" the most incoherent movie ever.
There's a Bond movie for everyone,and some like some more than others... but this list... is just laughable
Man w/ the Golden Gun/Diamonds are Forever Top 10 material?
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/film/the-best-and-worst-james-bond-movies-a-ranked-list
Man w/ the Golden Gun/Diamonds are Forever Top 10 material?
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/film/the-best-and-worst-james-bond-movies-a-ranked-list
Messypandas
Member
Yes it does and the Q example is the most relevant and crucial to the film's demise. Here we have the most intelligent computer whizz, many times compared to Silva who is also heralded as a genius. Now Silva's careful plot to confront and kill M involves getting captured by elite intelligence agency who he knows will track them down. His plan also involves MI6 and Q in particular being so incompetent he will plug his laptop into their system at an exact moment.
These two things cannot be reconciled.
A second example is Silva's attack on Bond's house. He sends in a team of men in cars then on foot who soot indescriminately and fire multiple times at M. But then once they are killed he comes in a seperate helicopter with another squad and immediately reminds them not to kill M ( I say reminds because he presumably shared these thoughts in the pre-mission breifing). Why the two squads, why does he even need back up to take out Bond and a gamekeeper. He as already shown Bond he is smarter, more ruthless and all around better than Bond.
This is a film that is actually trying to have a plot but relies on contrivances and out of character decisions so that cinematic scenes can be set up. It wants to be a smart film but has to be a dumb film because the written script can't sustain the action that has been predetermined to happen before a script was even outlined. It is a series of unlinked vignettes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Really
A character fucking up = "most incoherent movie ever."
Again - you dont' have to even bring films outside the series into it. There are double-digit number of films in this series alone that are "less coherent" than Skyfall is.
It's not that he can't take a joke; It's just that he gives no fucks.
-shadow-
Member
What suprises me more is that not only are those films top 10 material, but Licence to Kill only at 13? I get that people aren't a fan of Dalton, but this doesn't seem right.
What, Die Another Day and Moonraker didn't take the top two?
No other Bond movie has tried as hard to be serious and relied so much on slapstick. Incoerent doesn't mean out of line with reality but rather out of line with the reality the film creates.
Next on my list in Bond films is OHMSS. Let's have Bond fall in love and get married but also let's have him romp with a half a dozen promiscuous socialites.
Doctor Decimate
Member
QoS is a bunch of action scenes strung together by an astoundingly flimsy plot that also has no sense of forward momentum whatsoever because 80% the movie is Bond fumbling around trying to figure out what's happening as he stumbles into those action scenes while throwing a vaguely-defined tantrum based on the events of another movie.
But since we're taking issue with logic problems as opposed to whether a movie's script even works at some other very basic levels, here's one: almost the entire second act of QoS happens because Bond chooses to leave Camille in the hands of a random bystander instead of actually asking her what she knows about Greene's operation as he does later in the movie.
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah, I haven't seen OHMSS in a long time, but I remember quite a bit of jarring Roger Moore level goofy stuff in there mixing up with some pretty dark bits. Like Bond dressing up in a kilt and pretending to be a scotsman to infiltrate a fem-bot factory, and a bobsled chase scene finale.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's not really what incoherent means, either.
edit: are you trying to say "inconsistent?" Not that it changes much, because Skyfall is also not that inconsistent a film, either.
Yea let's be honest here, most Bond movies are kind of crap anyway. I think this movie would have to be trying really hard at being purposefully awful to be worse than most of them.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Every action scene in Quantum of Solace begs to differ.
phatmike128
Member
Imo QoS was a travesty of editing and completely destroyed the film. The action which is considered one of the best parts of a bond film was almost unwatchable.
Yes to some extent but plot isn't everything but Skyfall is particularly bad with gaping inconsistencies that you can't help but notice it.
OHMSS is alright but the whole part were Bond is undercover could be from a seperate movie and really clashes with the Bond presented at the start of the film. I hate the love montage bid as well and it is principally a cover up because the movie excludes Tracy for the chunk in the middle. That and Lazenby is a plank of wood spoil the movie for me.
-shadow-
Member
People can hate on Skyfall as much as theywant, but you'd have a hard time tellign me that the movie wasn't absolutely gorgeous to look at. The cinematography is absolutely amazing and the editing was spot on. You can't say the same about QoS. I remember the first time I watched that film on blu-ray. I was so confused during the entire opening car chase that after it finished I started the movie again just to figure out what was happening.
And really every fight/chase scene is a mess. It's really a waste because the movie in setting is absolutely great. The desert looked great and the hotel exploding was a great set piece.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Yeeeaaah, Im going to stay out of the obvious 'QoS wasn't that bad' and 'Skyfall was bad' BS. The constant similar 'I'm not crazy, you're crazy, Jurassic World wasn't bad, it had dinosaurs' (it didn't, that was the point of the damn movie, as far as it had any at all) has really burned me on any movie discussion that I know I've already done here.
That said, I'm not expecting this one to be as pleasant as Skyfall was, but hopefully it's better than QoS. That's a really low bar though.
That said, I'm not expecting this one to be as pleasant as Skyfall was, but hopefully it's better than QoS. That's a really low bar though.
Skyfall was okay - it was better than any Brosnon film outside of GoldenEye, but it felt like a clear step down from Casino Royale, where as QoS very obviously suffered from the short product timeline.
QoS was awful besides the Tosca scene, and even that scene wasn't edited very well.
-shadow-
Member
Agree, but only until the part where Bond and Greene come face to face. The editing from there until Bond has Greene's henchman it terrible. But thankfully it's really short and does pull back after Bond puts the gun on his neck. I get the idea of intertwining the play/action/escape. But it could have been done much better by showing just a bit more at a time.
I understand about Skyfall, but I was just talking on a visual level. I understand why people may dislike it, and yes it still is a huge step back from Casino. But just the way the film is put together in regards to filming and editing it's a stellar movie and I'd argue a better looking (not overal better mind you) film than Casino was.
APZonerunner
Member
Have any of the reviews indicated if the film uses any of the OHMSS theme melody in the actual score, as in the trailer? Very curious if they go for this thematic link in the film or if they just did that in the trailer for fans.
I have the score, listened to it on UK Spotify.
Answer is no. Not even the James Bond theme plays once in the entire film. Really.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The soundtrack might not actually have all the music as heard in the film, though.
Didn't Newman (or someone associated with EON) say the OHMSS music was going to be in the film proper? I coulda sworn someone "verified" that.
Didn't Newman (or someone associated with EON) say the OHMSS music was going to be in the film proper? I coulda sworn someone "verified" that.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Not an actual spoiler, just speculation, but
There's a theory that the "clinic" that the "daughter of an enemy" is going to may be broadly similar to the plot of OHMSS in general. Mr White standing in for the mafia boss, the girl standing in for Tracy, the clinic in the alps standing in for the allergy clinic in the alps and so on.
I don't think the plot is flimsy. Bond has stumbled onto an unknown covert group who are surrepticiously corrupt governments around the world. Bond foils a plot to install a corrupt government in Bolivia.
Bond leaving Camille isn't a plot hole. He has no reason to think she is useful to him. He is tracking Greene and she is unconcious. Maybe he should have waited and questioned her but he has been shown he isn't in a waiting or asking questions mood. It is the whole point of the film that he has stopped seeing people and now only sees targets. He is cold and blunt and selfish. He is broken and can't do the job anymore.
I don't think it is asking much of the audience to remember the events of the previous film.
Knowing particulars about the Terria Project wouldn't have been that helpful compared to the information gained by chasing Greene to Switzerland. So he made the correct choice.
APZonerunner
Member
I can believe this though, as Newman explicitly talked about his distaste for the "tired old" theme around Skyfall's release, and the main use of the theme in the film (the Aston reveal) supposedly wasn't intended by him and was added at the request of either the Director or Producers. The version over Skyfall's credits isn't Newman's, either, it's Arnold's from Casino Royale - he didn't do a full arrangement of the theme. He also didn't want to use the melody of Adele's Skyfall in the score and only added it to one sequence because the Producers bugged him about it.
I wasn't really a fan of Newman's work on Skyfall, and while I know they had him because Arnold was doing the Olympics and Newman was a composer Mendes loves, I wish they'd bring Arnold back. Then again, even he misstepped - the stripped-back nature of the score in Casino Royale made sense, but then it stayed stripped back for Quantum, and I'm not really sure why. His work in The World is Not Enough and (dare I say it) Die Another Day hit a sweet Barry-ish sort of spot, but they've failed to hit that since.
Bond score nerd here!
PsihoPerihelion
Member
That was the original OT title! What the fuck happened?
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