Support NeoGAF

[Buttchin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the statistic was that more men succeed at suicide, but more women attempt it.

In that case, couldn't it be that women still aren't getting enough treatment?

First sentence is 100 percent true. Women attempt suicide more frequently but they tend to attempt using overdose of medicaito or cutting. Men however tend to opt for firearms which tend to work more often and have limited surviviability compared to an OD. I'm going to refrain from the second sentence.

 

[Stet]

I was on Cymbalta for about two years and I'm still embarrassed by it. But looking back I sure did need something, and the stuff worked.

Why would you be embarrassed by it?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I don't dismiss it. I've already said in this thread that I'm fully behind people who are suicidal taking an SSRI. I also agree that medications should be used for those who are schizophrenic.

I'm not anti psych meds. I'm just anti meds for 1/4 of the population. That's where we are today. Seems a bit insane, no?

It's insane if you have strong opinions about whether or not medication is good or bad, which I do not. I used to have a gut reaction that medicating yourself makes you somehow not the real you, but I don't feel that way anymore. If people want to avoid suffering and feel like they fit better into their environment and their own lives, I don't care how they do it.

The whole BigPharma angle does add a sinister wrinkle, but as I said much earlier, the fact that 25% of people are on drugs doesn't prove or disprove the evaluative claim that "too many" drugs are being prescribed. In a world without drugs, just that many more people would be miserable or incapable of living well within society. I think medication is a net improvement, even if there are also other ways of helping people.

Why would you be embarrassed by it?

There's still plenty of stigma on mental health issues, especially for men. He shouldn't be embarrassed, but it's not hard to see why he might be. (I am assuming the poster is male. Forgive me if I'm wrong.)

 

[GungHo]

Doctors aren't scientists. They also have an army of pharm reps selling them shit on a daily basis.

I know this is a "in own personal experience" observation/comment, but in my opinion, this kind of thing has gotten out of hand. Any time I go to my doc's office (whether the doc for head stuff or doc for the rest of body stuff), the reps are almost always there. They're bringing in food for everyone (e.g. Outback, Hooters, Red Lobster), or they're taking the docs out for golf, or they're taking them to baseball games, or some other thing. How in the world can that not be a conflict of interest? I know in my job we can't get shit from vendors because we're publicly traded and the SEC and auditors look dimly on CoIs, but you'd figure there'd be some sort of ethics requirements on behalf of licenensing boards.

 

[LilZippa]

I'm certainly in better shape than you are in my mid 30's, my girlfriend is 23, I'd say yeah I feel pretty good. Thanks

What does this have to do with anything?

While diet education is important most people will not change their diet just because a doctor tells them it will save their life. It is more important to change the culture of bad food consumption and improve overall diet awareness. Your doing yourself and your cause a massive disservice. There will always be cases where dietary changes alone will not cure your ails.

 

[Devolution]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the statistic was that more men succeed at suicide, but more women attempt it.

In that case, couldn't it be that women still aren't getting enough treatment?

Women will have more attempts. Younger men in say the 18-24 category will commit suicide 7 times as much as women in the same age range. It wouldn't surprise me if the attempts go down as more women get psychiatric medication.

And no I'm not being pithy squidj, it's a matter of fact how violent men are in our society compared with my gender and yet women get established as the "crazy" ones.

Even if the arguments of women being over-prescribed are true the fact of the matter is men are less likely to seek medical assistance for their problems. As society changes, they become more out of the loop; depression is hitting them hard and they don't know where to turn. Traditional definitions of manhood dictate not talking about your feelings, not admitting you have problems and generally not seeking help for those problems. They're in a sort of fucked if you do, fucked if you don't situation. I'm not insulting men I'm talking about the current realities of your gender.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Brave New World.

Also, let's not pretend that many men aren't on psychiatric medications. They're not as likely to seek help, but believe me, there is no shortage of men on some sort of pill in this country. I think both genders are over prescribed. Antidepressants don't address anything. Doctors passing out some flavor of the week pill like it's candy is an enormous problem. I also don't think men are any more "out of the loop" than women are.

 

[squidyj]

Why would you be embarrassed by it?

because he is a rational actor and possesses agency over his own actions and behaviours (at least that's the party line). Having to take some medicine to make your mind right implies that isn't the case, that rather than a powerful free actor in your own life you're the prisoner of biology, physiology, experience, and environment. You are forced to recognize that you do not individually possess the willpower, strength, fortitude, balls, machismo, to fix your own situation and require direct outside intervention, in essence it has the potential to be seen as emasculating.

In fact it becomes even worse when you look at the gendered narratives wherein the females are seen as weak nonactors in their own lives becoming 'doubly deviant' when they behave as such (it's common to see this in female criminality) but also being able to play into that perceived weakness to environment etc. With the addition of this narrative it makes accepting treatment even more emasculating because it becomes accepting a weakness associated with women.

It's all myth and bullshit though.

 

[BruiserBear]

It's insane if you have strong opinions about whether or not medication is good or bad, which I do not. I used to have a gut reaction that medicating yourself makes you somehow not the real you, but I don't feel that way anymore. If people want to avoid suffering and feel like they fit better into their environment and their own lives, I don't care how they do it.

The whole BigPharma angle does add a sinister wrinkle, but as I said much earlier, the fact that 25% of people are on drugs doesn't prove or disprove the evaluative claim that "too many" drugs are being prescribed. In a world without drugs, just that many more people would be miserable or incapable of living well within society. I think medication is a net improvement, even if there are also other ways of helping people.

You seem to be coming from the angle that the drugs are the only solution. Which is exactly how we got to the place we're at today, with 25% of American woman being on meds.

IMO this is just a piece of a much bigger problem in society today. People looking for the quickest "fix". In my case, it tooks months, and maybe nearly a year, before I felt I had truly moved on from my major anxiety episode. But due to how I walked myself out of it, I'm much stronger, and much less likely to fall victim to it again. I know all of anxiety's tricks.

Someone who just took that pill hasn't gone through those experiences, and walked themselves out of it. Thus they're much more likely to have problems again, because they never learned what thought processes created them in the first place.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Everything's already been said in regard to pot still being illegal and the rampant amount of marketing. That's a whole topic on it's own.
On a side note, I see my wife watching all these "real" housewives shows but I've yet to see anything real about them. Basically they take anything they can to mask any emotion. Don't want to feel sad, take this pill, don't want to show emotion?, here we will inject this shit into your face so you can't frown. OK OK, I know they only inject it for vapid reasons but it still masks the emotion of anger and surprise by paralyzing the face.

 

[Buttchin]

I know this is a "in own personal experience" observation/comment, but in my opinion, this kind of thing has gotten out of hand. Any time I go to my doc's office (whether the doc for head stuff or doc for the rest of body stuff), the reps are almost always there. They're bringing in food for everyone (e.g. Outback, Hooters, Red Lobster), or they're taking the docs out for golf, or they're taking them to baseball games, or some other thing. How in the world can that not be a conflict of interest? I know in my job we can't get shit from vendors because we're publicly traded and the SEC and auditors look dimly on CoIs, but you'd figure there'd be some sort of ethics requirements on behalf of licenensing boards.

Is this a private office or is it affiliated with a academic center. I know private offices have more freedom to have lunches provided by vendors. I'm currently at an academic center and I've had a total of 3 "vendor provided lunches". There was 1 trying to recruit to the army, one attempting to recruit for the Air force and another was an insurance agency attempting to convince the residents to get disability coverage in residency instead of waiting till after residency. The one pharmaceutical representative event we had amounted to them providing us access to a hallucination machine experience that lasted 8 minutes.

Clearly anecdotal listed above in both encounters but i suspect it largely depends on locale and if its a private office.

 

[Huff]

Not that doctor's aren't over prescribing most medications, but many patients are the problem themselves.

Doctors over prescribe because 1: A patient goes to him for a problem and expects some kind of a fix. Rx are a easy way to satisfy the pt and make money from the visit. 2: If he doesn't write a prescription and gives advice or lifestyle modification recommendations, the pt is just going to go to another doctor to get the Rx seen on TV.

Pts want an easy fix and rx are seen as a way to do this.

 

[Dice]

Someone who just took that pill hasn't gone through those experiences, and walked themselves out of it. Thus they're much more likely to have problems again, because they never learned what thought processes created them in the first place.

1) It is not always thought processes.
2) Not everyone has the leeway in life to deal with a serious issue that is deeply affecting their life over the course of a year.
3) The mind is not a magical essence. If self-regulation works, it does so because something is eventually modified by practicing it. If it can be modified directly, there is no difference other than convenience and speed.

 

[squidyj]

Mental health and the criminal justice system are so interlinked I just plain don't believe you can achieve real progress on one front without supporting reform in the other.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You seem to be coming from the angle that the drugs are the only solution. Which is exactly how we got to the place we're at today, with 25% of American woman being on meds.

IMO this is just a piece of a much bigger problem in society today. People looking for the quickest "fix". In my case, it tooks months, and maybe nearly a year, before I felt I had truly moved on from my major anxiety episode. But due to how I walked myself out of it, I'm much stronger, and much less likely to fall victim to it again. I know all of anxiety's tricks.

Someone who just took that pill hasn't gone through those experiences, and walked themselves out of it. Thus they're much more likely to have problems again, because they never learned what thought processes created them in the first place.

I said right after the bolded sentence that drugs are just one possible solution. I do appreciate where you're coming from, and I'm glad that you put in the effort to help yourself and feel rewarded in having done so, but sometimes the more efficient solution is the only feasible solution. It's just not reasonable to expect everyone to spend the time and energy to thoroughly educate themselves on their problems, and it's not reasonable to expect everyone to have the time and money to see a therapist regularly to completely work through their issues psychologically. I think my position stems from prizing efficiency in a larger system, and a neutral outlook on the issue of medication vs. reaching true self-understanding.

It's awesome that it worked for you, but insight alone isn't going to work for everyone. I studied psychology at the graduate level for over 6 years (not specializing in clinical/abnormal, but I still know some shit) and I don't feel any more psychologically healthy than when I started. (I didn't study it to feel better about myself, though.) The point is, knowing something and feeling it/living it are two separate things.

I'll readily admit that it might be better if everyone did it the way you did. I just don't think it's possible.

 

[Devolution]

Here's a question are drugs more likely (and how much) to be covered than therapy when it comes to health insurance? If so the argument that people should seek any kind of therapist/psychiatrist (other than who has the time) to help them with their problems is kind of flying in the face of economic reality.

 

[GungHo]

Is this a private office or is it affiliated with a academic center.

Private offices.

Here's a question are drugs more likely (and how much) to be covered than therapy when it comes to health insurance? If so the argument that people should seek any kind of therapist/psychiatrist (other than who has the time) to help them with their problems is kind of flying in the face of economic reality.

In my case, physical health care visits and mental health care visits are on two different tracks and rates as far as what is and isn't covered (HMO), but pharmacudicals are covered at the same rate regardless of who prescribed.

 

[BruiserBear]

I said right after the bolded sentence that drugs are just one possible solution. I do appreciate where you're coming from, and I'm glad that you put in the effort to help yourself and feel rewarded in having done so, but sometimes the more efficient solution is the only feasible solution. It's just not reasonable to expect everyone to spend the time and energy to thoroughly educate themselves on their problems, and it's not reasonable to expect everyone to have the time and money to see a therapist regularly to completely work through their issues psychologically. I think my position stems from prizing efficiency in a larger system, and a neutral outlook on the issue of medication vs. reaching true self-understanding.

It's awesome that it worked for you, but insight alone isn't going to work for everyone. I studied psychology at the graduate level for over 6 years (not specializing in clinical/abnormal, but I still know some shit) and I don't feel any more psychologically healthy than when I started. (I didn't study it to feel better about myself, though.) The point is, knowing something and feeling it/living it are two separate things.

I'll readily admit that it might be better if everyone did it the way you did. I just don't think it's possible.

To be clear, I only saw a therapist for the first 4 months. It got me nowhere. As soon as I got that book, and CD, I stopped seeing the therapist and my recovery progressed rapidly. Within a week I felt better. Within a month I felt much better. It was just a year before I was truly standing on rock solid ground again, feeling like anxiety was behind me for good.


I'm fully aware everyone is different, and I'm not telling anyone in this thread what they should do for themselves. Unfortunately I know that a great many will feel defensive because they're on meds themselves, but I don't think anyone needs to explain themselves. Everyone has their own path to choose.

My issues are with the medical community at large, and their "quick fix" mentality. I think it's a mess right now, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Jaysus, that's a scary stat.

 

[Kentpaul]

I tried Valium once and fell asleep watching the news.