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[MetalAlien]

I'm a movie nut.. I jumped on DVD as soon as it came out.. life long dream it seemed at the time...

It just worked too good, HD-DVD and Blu Ray seem to be trying to fix something that isn't broken!

 

[karasu]

Because of convenience. Having the ability to download every movie ever made in any language™ without having to get your fat-ass off of the couch is an incredible advance that will cause people to move off of DVDs. An imperceptible resolution bump ain’t going to do it.

How convinient will it be though? How do you store the films? How long will it take to download them? How much will it cost?? etc etc.

Besides, the jump in resolution is hardly imperceptible. If you have an HDTV and you're watching standard resolution dvd's one of the first things you realize is that DVD's, 480p or not, just don't cut it.l

 

[mrklaw]

I'm a movie nut.. I jumped on DVD as soon as it came out.. life long dream it seemed at the time...

It just worked too good, HD-DVD and Blu Ray seem to be trying to fix something that isn't broken!

just consider DVD as a temporary stop gap solution to the final utopia that is HD.

 

[Nerevar]

Besides, the jump in resolution is hardly imperceptible. If you have an HDTV and you're watching standard resolution dvd's one of the first things you realize is that DVD's, 480p or not, just don't cut it.l

You're just flat-out wrong here. Sure, maybe for the videophile the difference is noticeable and bothersome, but people are absolutely blown away when I play back scenes from the LOTR:Return of the King special edition DVD on my 43" rear projection LCD from just a run of the mill progressive scan DVD player. I would actually make the argument that DVD is helping drive adoption of HDTV sets across America as the difference ("real" widescreen and no picture "noise") between watching a DVD on an SD or an HD display is pretty noticeable.

 

[DDayton]

Actually, I want to revise my earlier statement...

If either format is sold with complete hybrid capabilities, storing a DVD version of the film on the same disk, I think it has a healthy chance. Just get several studios to start releasing ALL their films on ___ disk with a DVD version on the first layer or one side, and you'll guarantee continued sales to all portions of the market... then the new format will slowly take over as people slowly upgrade.

 

[Cooper]

You're just flat-out wrong here. Sure, maybe for the videophile the difference is noticeable and bothersome, but people are absolutely blown away when I play back scenes from the LOTR:Return of the King special edition DVD on my 43" rear projection LCD from just a run of the mill progressive scan DVD player.

I thought DVDs looked great too when we first got our DLP. But after watching HD broadcasts for a few years, it's tough to watch a DVD without thinking how much better an HD version would look. For me, the improvement in color is just as important as the increased resolution.

 

[SuperPac]

I have an HDTV and until Blu-Ray or HD DVD playback options are cheaper, I'm sticking with regular DVD. High-def cable already satisfies my need for HD content with movies (on-air and PPV) and TV shows, and I'm happy enough with regular DVD on my upscaling DVD player.

Besides, I heard someone say that the initial Blu-Ray and HD DVD players automatically stretch 4:3 content -- no option to windowbox at the right ratio. **** that. A lot of what I watch on DVD are 4:3 TV shows, and hell if I'm gonna watch it stretched instead of windowboxed.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm a movie nut.. I jumped on DVD as soon as it came out.. life long dream it seemed at the time...

It just worked too good, HD-DVD and Blu Ray seem to be trying to fix something that isn't broken!

Ditto. DVD was a complete revelation to me in terms of the way I wanted to watch movies. None of the HD formats have had the same effect on me.

just consider DVD as a temporary stop gap solution to the final utopia that is HD.

YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I have an HDTV and until Blu-Ray or HD DVD playback options are cheaper, I'm sticking with regular DVD. High-def cable already satisfies my need for HD content with movies (on-air and PPV) and TV shows, and I'm happy enough with regular DVD on my upscaling DVD player.

Besides, I hear that the initial Blu-Ray and HD DVD players automatically stretch 4:3 content. **** that. A lot of what I watch on DVD are 4:3 TV shows, and hell if I'm gonna watch it stretched instead of windowboxed.

Wait WHAT? No black bars on the sides? Hardcoded stretch?

Someone deny this toot sweet or I will never take a Pro-HD-Disc stance seriously again.

 

[SuperPac]

Wait WHAT? No black bars on the sides? Hardcoded stretch?

Someone deny this toot sweet or I will never take a Pro-HD-Disc stance seriously again.

According to a post on the AVS forum, the Samsung BD player that just came out does not have an option to view 4:3 discs with the black bars on the side, it auto-stretches 4:3 content. So boo to Blu-Ray.

Toshiba's HD DVD player, on the other hand, appears to have an option to play 4:3 stuff pillar/windowboxed.

 

[Phoenix]

just consider DVD as a temporary stop gap solution to the final utopia that is HD.

You're pretty close to the truth. The entire DVD consortium knew they were compromising and rushing to get the platform to market. Its also one of the reasons the security on the platform is weak, they were unwilling to invest the additional time and money necessary to implement a more solid security solution on disks. At the time it was considered largely unnecessary. Writers weren't on the market, players were ludicrously expensive, and the transfer of such large files was overlooked as 'not likely' (go through the notes). With DVD the opportunity was there for 'regime change' and they took it and shortly thereafter the broadband revolution bit them in the ass - HARD.

They knew high definition was right around the corner, but the sets were in the 5-6 figure range, the technology wasn't mature for pushing that much data let alone storing it on disk, and many of the rights holders were still living in the past concerned about media competing with their movie box office grosses.

DVD wasn't planned to be 'the last best hope' for optical storage. They knew that when they pushed it out. DVD was the best they could practically do at the time - so that's what they did. Now they can do better and solve some of the problems they've encountered with DVD while still offering full backwards compatibility. Hell its a far better technological move than our move from magnetic tapes to optical or laser disc to optical.

One of these formats will succeed or a dual-player specification of the two will succeed. That writing is already on the wall. There is no compelling competing standard for optical disks that has even more than laughable water-cooler support. If people would spend more time pointing out the issues of either format (because they do have some issues) instead of this 'sky is falling, they've already failed' approach which is pretty much laughed at and ignored by the people who control this space - then we'd get somewhere.

 

[Phoenix]

According to a post on the AVS forum, the Samsung BD player that just came out does not have an option to view 4:3 discs with the black bars on the side, it auto-stretches 4:3 content. So boo to Blu-Ray.

You mean boo to the Samsung BRD player right What you are suggest is similar to looking at the PS2 and saying boo to DVDs because of failings of the PS2

 

[SuperPac]

You mean boo to the Samsung BRD player right What you are suggest is similar to looking at the PS2 and saying boo to DVDs because of failings of the PS2

If the PS2 was the *only* way to play back DVDs when it launched and it couldn't play something the right way, then yes I would say boo to DVD. This is the only BD player on the market so therefore it is the ambassador for the format. If Sony wants to continue to delay their own player even while retailers like Circuit City and Best Buy are pimping the living **** out of Blu-Ray, then I can base my opinion of the format on what's available.

But boo to Samsung, then (for now, until we discover whether future BD players will do it). Playing 4:3 content in the correct ratio is, IMO, a no-brainer feature. To not be able to do it on a DVD player that costs $999 is completely stupid. It's not like this is the first DVD player Samsung has ever made. Maybe a lot of videophiles don't care about this point, but it demonstrates that either Samsung rushed the player to market or they just don't understand the DVD marketplace as a whole. Either way, my interest in a Blu-Ray player has plummetted because of it.

 

[Zombie James]

Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982.

So very, very wrong.

 

[Pellham]

One of these formats will succeed or a dual-player specification of the two will succeed. That writing is already on the wall. There is no compelling competing standard for optical disks that has even more than laughable water-cooler support. If people would spend more time pointing out the issues of either format (because they do have some issues) instead of this 'sky is falling, they've already failed' approach which is pretty much laughed at and ignored by the people who control this space - then we'd get somewhere.

I dunno, it seems pretty idiotic to me that we're going to keep relying on physical formats for movies when everything else is moving in the direction of downloads/going away from optical discs. Music CDs are already being phased out in favor of downloads, movies and games are next.

There is no doubt that HD-DVD/BRD bring a lot of benefits (such as anti-piracy) and technology improvements, but ultimately if consumers won't buy it, they won't buy it. And there is no indication that there is a mass market for this anytime soon. PS3 won't change a thing.

 

[SuperPac]

One of these formats will succeed or a dual-player specification of the two will succeed. That writing is already on the wall. There is no compelling competing standard for optical disks that has even more than laughable water-cooler support.

I'm not going to say this will or won't happen, but I find it hard to believe that either is sure to succeed. Too many people assume that everyone who plunks down $2,000 on an HDTV will automatically want/need a $500+ Blu-Ray/HD DVD movie player. IMO, this logic is flawed. It's like saying everyone who buys a luxury car will buy a GPS nav system. It's a nice extra but not everyone will elect to get it. Blu-Ray and HD DVD remain high-cost options. Low-cost progressive-scan and upscanning DVD players will very likely do the job for most people after they see that Blu-Ray/HD DVD versions of the movies they want cost $5-10 more at brick and mortar shops (not counting online discounting and whatnot) for fewer features. With movie studios split between supporting HD DVD or Blu-Ray, the decision is even more difficult. Who wants to invest in a movie format that is not guaranteed to even be around in two years' time? The only sure bet at the moment is good ol' regular DVD.

 

[Zaptruder]

I dunno, it seems pretty idiotic to me that we're going to keep relying on physical formats for movies when everything else is moving in the direction of downloads/going away from optical discs. Music CDs are already being phased out in favor of downloads, movies and games are next.

There is no doubt that HD-DVD/BRD bring a lot of benefits (such as anti-piracy) and technology improvements, but ultimately if consumers won't buy it, they won't buy it. And there is no indication that there is a mass market for this anytime soon. PS3 won't change a thing.

Why won't the PS3 change a thing? If they're millions of BD players out there that is largely a side effect for a lot of people of buying an expensive console... why wouldn't they use it?

And use it to drive the BD revolution?

It annoys me that people keep repeating the same memes with so little basis.

Also the bolded bit. People still buy CDs. You know what else? People don't generally download CD ISOs; they download MP3s. Similarly most people don't bother with full DVD rips; they go for DivX/Xvid ripped movies.

If people end up going for HD downloads, it'll be the pirates, and they'll be using a lossier more compact format, most likely.

 

[Angels of a Wing]

As an anime fan I Really don't want HD-Dvd or Blue ray to replace the normal dvds the same way Vhs did... at least not any time soon.

Lets face it as of only a few years ago Anime was a LOT more expensive. In Canadia you'd go into future shop and see 1 disk with four episodes cost about $50!!!!! That's right 50 freaking dollars.

A boxset like Ranma 1/2 would cost $200 before tax (that's only about 24-26 episodes!!!!)

While today their are still some pretty expensive boxsets out from some companies (Genon) and while Singles can still be quite exepsnive at around $20-30 a pop for the most part it's now possible to get thinpack and brick sets that cost only $30-40 for an entire season or series.

If we just up and switched over to Blue ray and Hd-Dvd now then the the prices could go back to being around $200 instead of $30-40 for those box sets and the singles could easily go from $20-30 to $30-50!!! That's a pretty damn huge difference, especially since most anime isn't or hasn't been optimized for Hd yet.

I Support low prices and until the new format can provid them then I don't want it to take over.

 

[GhaleonEB]

just consider DVD as a temporary stop gap solution to the final utopia that is HD.

I can't afford to get into heaven, apparantly.

It cost me $100 to join the stop gap. The price/value proposition just isn't there for me with these new formats.

 

[XMonkey]

I Support low prices and until the new format can provid them then I don't want it to take over.

Ya, $20 for some Bluray movies over at Amazon is terrible...

I would think Anime would be one of the last genres to switch over.

 

[LM4sure]

Beh. For most people, the difference in video quality between dvd and hd dvd is not that great. Until the mass market catches on, hd dvd is not going anywhere! And that will be a while.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm not going to say this will or won't happen, but I find it hard to believe that either is sure to succeed. Too many people assume that everyone who plunks down $2,000 on an HDTV will automatically want/need a $500+ Blu-Ray/HD DVD movie player. IMO, this logic is flawed. It's like saying everyone who buys a luxury car will buy a GPS nav system.

Nah that's a bad analogy. A more apt analogy would be saying "everyone who buys a sports car would buy premium gas, premium racing tires, etc.". Those things are necessary to exploit a sports car just like a BRD/HDVD is necessary to exploit an HDTV. If you pay the premium for a 1080i/1080p TV and don't display content that exploits that, it would be like buying a 7900GTX for your computer and only playing Civ4.

 

[SuperPac]

Nah that's a bad analogy. A more apt analogy would be saying "everyone who buys a sports car would buy premium gas, premium racing tires, etc.". Those things are necessary to exploit a sports car just like a BRD/HDVD is necessary to exploit an HDTV. If you pay the premium for a 1080i/1080p TV and don't display content that exploits that, it would be like buying a 7900GTX for your computer and only playing Civ4.

But everyone who buys a sports car doesn't always buy the absolute top-of-the-line accessories. Just like not everyone that has an HDTV has also purchased a top-of-the-line DD/DTS home theater setup. Many consumers, I'd argue, will settle for "good enough." And when you look at spending $500-1,000 on a high-def DVD player, there are many other more affordable "good enough" alternatives that will take plenty of advantage of an HDTV (HD cable, prog-scan DVD, gaming). This is why neither format is guaranteed anything.

 

[Ponn]

But everyone who buys a sports car doesn't always buy the absolute top-of-the-line accessories. Just like not everyone that has an HDTV has also purchased a top-of-the-line DD/DTS home theater setup. Many consumers, I'd argue, will settle for "good enough." And when you look at spending $500-1,000 on a high-def DVD player, there are many other more affordable "good enough" alternatives that will take plenty of advantage of an HDTV (HD cable, prog-scan DVD, gaming). This is why neither format is guaranteed anything.

Why the **** am I going to spend $1000+ on a HDTV if i'm not going to use it. Having lived with HD cable and prog-scan DVD for 3 years it does not cut it, at all. If i'm not playing HD on my HDTV there is no point to having a HDTV.

With HD-DVD and Blu-ray being out in stores for barely a couple months now the consumer can now see what real HD looks like. The real push comes this holiday when people are rushing for HDTV's for Christmas and see these formats.

 

[Phoenix]

But everyone who buys a sports car doesn't always buy the absolute top-of-the-line accessories. Just like not everyone that has an HDTV has also purchased a top-of-the-line DD/DTS home theater setup. Many consumers, I'd argue, will settle for "good enough."

The consumer settling for "good enough" isn't buying an HD set right now - period. Its like buying a PS3 to play the new Scrabble game. Are you suggesting that consumers would spend top of the line money for an HD set and then not take advantage of it?

 

[SuperPac]

The consumer settling for "good enough" isn't buying an HD set right now - period. Its like buying a PS3 to play the new Scrabble game. Are you suggesting that consumers would spend top of the line money for an HD set and then not take advantage of it?

I'm suggesting they're going to take advantage of it in ways that may not include either Blu-Ray or HD DVD, yes. Just like they have been doing for the past however many years HDTVs have been in mass-market chain stores.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm suggesting they're going to take advantage of it in ways that may not include either Blu-Ray or HD DVD, yes. Just like they have been doing for the past however many years HDTVs have been in mass-market chain stores.

They've been there, but they certainly haven't been selling in 'mass-market' numbers because they are just getting to mass market prices. But hey, to each their own. We'll all have to wait and see where it goes, but for me personally the 'con' side of HD formats is not compelling at all.

 

[mrklaw]

I can't afford to get into heaven, apparantly.

It cost me $100 to join the stop gap. The price/value proposition just isn't there for me with these new formats.

Thats fine too. Nobody is saying these prices are what everyone has to pay. These prices are early market. Just buy bluray/HDDVD when they are $100 too.